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Food Addiction - A Different Perspective
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Great post, Carol.
People often ask on these forums, "What was the turning point for you?", meaning, what was your "a ha" moment, where you realized what you had to do to lose weight, and did it.
For me, it was the realization that I was the boss, that I was in control, and that I had to stop blaming foods that were "irresistible" for making me fat.
On another forum (WW), someone mentioned peanut butter and how it wasn't enough for them to just eat the serving they had portioned out. They always ate more because they "had to" lick the knife as well. Had to. I said, "You don't have to; you choose to". But they weren't ready to hear that and I was called "mean".
Like I've never heard that before
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booksandchocolate12 wrote: »Great post, Carol.
People often ask on these forums, "What was the turning point for you?", meaning, what was your "a ha" moment, where you realized what you had to do to lose weight, and did it.
For me, it was the realization that I was the boss, that I was in control, and that I had to stop blaming foods that were "irresistible" for making me fat.
On another forum (WW), someone mentioned peanut butter and how it wasn't enough for them to just eat the serving they had portioned out. They always ate more because they "had to" lick the knife as well. Had to. I said, "You don't have to; you choose to". But they weren't ready to hear that and I was called "mean".
Like I've never heard that before
There lies the problem...they weren't read to hear that.
I guess it concerns me that a random internet stranger is deciding when and how another person faces up to the truth. Are we really qualified to make that decision? I don't know...maybe I err on the side of caution. I didn't once...it didn't turn out well. I regret the words that I said that day. I thought the words that I said would help...they didn't. Maybe that is why I am so cautious.
May I ask...did you come to the realization that you were in control because someone was "brutally honest" with you or because you were ready to hear the words?
Just to add...I actually agree with you...the majority of us have ended up where we are through bad choices.
There is this saying...
You cannot control what happens to you, but you can control your attitude toward what happens to you, and in that, you will be mastering change rather than allowing it to master you. - Brian Tracy
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kshama2001 wrote: »DansLeSucre wrote: »
Yup, in Rational Recovery, this is called the Addictive Voice, or Beast. It can be very tricksie until you learn how to spot it and deflect it, like you did - good job!
Thanks! It was surprising how quickly it happened and if I just waited it out and took a "one hour/one day at a time" approach, I got through it. Very educational! It's nice to feel that I'll know how to deflect it the next time it happens because I was successful this first time. I've been a food addict for YEARS and am finally doing something about it.0 -
I actually found calling my unhealthy relationship with Pepsi an addiction, helped me. Reading materials that focused on recovering from addiction gave me some valuable tools. Since I don't really need Pepsi, I am planning on abstaining for the rest of my life. Some might say I need a therapy, because I call it an addition but I can't imagine a therapist would agree to treat me for such a silly condition as calling my unhealthy relationship with Pepsi an addiction; or try to help me improve said relationship, so I could drink it in moderation.0
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daniwilford wrote: »I actually found calling my unhealthy relationship with Pepsi an addiction, helped me. Reading materials that focused on recovering from addiction gave me some valuable tools. Since I don't really need Pepsi, I am planning on abstaining for the rest of my life. Some might say I need a therapy, because I call it an addition but I can't imagine a therapist would agree to treat me for such a silly condition as calling my unhealthy relationship with Pepsi an addiction; or try to help me improve said relationship, so I could drink it in moderation.
again, lack of will power does not equal addiction.
maybe dealing with the underlying issue that makes your relationship with pepsi unhealthy would be the way to go ..
or, you could just drink diet...0 -
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booksandchocolate12 wrote: »Great post, Carol.
People often ask on these forums, "What was the turning point for you?", meaning, what was your "a ha" moment, where you realized what you had to do to lose weight, and did it.
For me, it was the realization that I was the boss, that I was in control, and that I had to stop blaming foods that were "irresistible" for making me fat.
On another forum (WW), someone mentioned peanut butter and how it wasn't enough for them to just eat the serving they had portioned out. They always ate more because they "had to" lick the knife as well. Had to. I said, "You don't have to; you choose to". But they weren't ready to hear that and I was called "mean".
Like I've never heard that before
I guess it concerns me that a random internet stranger is deciding when and how another person faces up to the truth. Are we really qualified to make that decision? I don't know...maybe I err on the side of caution. I didn't once...it didn't turn out well. I regret the words that I said that day. I thought the words that I said would help...they didn't. Maybe that is why I am so cautious.
So, if someone comes on an internet forum, complaining that they can't lose weight, they've tried everything, but they just can't stay away from chocolate, or their husband/wife/mother/co-worker is a food pusher, we should just say, "Yes, you're right, you can't lose weight because of those things. You absolutely can't. It's impossible"? Just tell them what they want to hear? That's helpful? Even if it's ridiculous?May I ask...did you come to the realization that you were in control because someone was "brutally honest" with you or because you were ready to hear the words?
Both.
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booksandchocolate12 wrote: »booksandchocolate12 wrote: »Great post, Carol.
People often ask on these forums, "What was the turning point for you?", meaning, what was your "a ha" moment, where you realized what you had to do to lose weight, and did it.
For me, it was the realization that I was the boss, that I was in control, and that I had to stop blaming foods that were "irresistible" for making me fat.
On another forum (WW), someone mentioned peanut butter and how it wasn't enough for them to just eat the serving they had portioned out. They always ate more because they "had to" lick the knife as well. Had to. I said, "You don't have to; you choose to". But they weren't ready to hear that and I was called "mean".
Like I've never heard that before
I guess it concerns me that a random internet stranger is deciding when and how another person faces up to the truth. Are we really qualified to make that decision? I don't know...maybe I err on the side of caution. I didn't once...it didn't turn out well. I regret the words that I said that day. I thought the words that I said would help...they didn't. Maybe that is why I am so cautious.
So, if someone comes on an internet forum, complaining that they can't lose weight, they've tried everything, but they just can't stay away from chocolate, or their husband/wife/mother/co-worker is a food pusher, we should just say, "Yes, you're right, you can't lose weight because of those things. You absolutely can't. It's impossible"? Just tell them what they want to hear? That's helpful? Even if it's ridiculous?May I ask...did you come to the realization that you were in control because someone was "brutally honest" with you or because you were ready to hear the words?
Both.
That wasn't what I was trying to say but we'll leave it at that.
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kshama2001 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »My position is that whether or not a person is actually addicted is not especially relevant. What's important is how are they going to manage their relationship with that food. If they feel that they are addicted, something's not working, and something needs to change. That change may take different forms depending on the person and where they are in their journey. There were several good examples in the OP:The second thing to do might be to look a little further to see if there's a reason the cycle of behavior became entrenched in the first place. Were you eating in response to emotional/mood triggers and then feeling remorse after indulging? Did you find yourself eating because you were stressed or mildly depressed (serious depression should be handled professionally), or bored?
Well, if you keep digging for answers, that's the first step to finding solutions
Exercise is a great stress reliever and good for a case of feeling down. Some people like meditative hobbies like coloring or knitting helpful or woodworking... or actual meditation. Pampering activities like long showers or luxurious baths are good for both stress and mild cases of the blues. Replace the bad habit you've formed with food with a new habit in response to your emotional catalyst.
I'll share my personal experience. What worked for me might not work for you. If you have an extreme case, you might need something like cognitive behavioral therapy.
Personally, I just needed time. Time away from the foods I had trouble with and time to reframe my thinking. Once my head was on straight, and I stopped feeling guilt surrounding my consumption of food, I was ready to eat what used to be problematic food (ice cream, brownies, cheese) again. I no longer consider myself "addicted" and I can eat these things in moderation. I also incorporated exercise into my life and find it's an excellent stress reliever!
When a person posts that they are addicted and need help, giving information like in the OP is useful, while saying "No you're not" is not.
Many people who claim an addiction have a certain mindset. They feel powerless. Sometimes what the person needs to do is realize that this is not the case; they do have power over what goes into their mouth. But they have to be willing to put in the effort to regain that control. It's not true for everyone, but sometimes taking that initial ownership can be a step in the right direction.
I absolutely agree that people do have power over what goes into their mouths and think 12 step programs do many people a disservice with their notion of powerlessness over addiction.
Have you ever been to a 12 step program before? Or, are you just jumping to an assumption? I ask this with the sincere intent of trying to find out where you are coming from.
Bottom line: food and drugs are not the same. You can't be physically addicted to food but you can be physically addicted to drugs and/or alcohol. Powerlessness over addiction is not a "notion," but very real. If you go into any room of recovery, you will learn this.
If you are truly addicted to something you cannot just stop because it is a physical addiction first, then a spiritual/emotional one next. Food does not cause physical addictions, though I believe our mind can convince us otherwise.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »Food and specific food addiction are often contentious subjects on these boards and sensitive issues for many people. It's easy for some people to dismiss the idea of food addiction and just as easy for others to cling to it.
The research on the idea of it is far from settled, though. It remains a controversial subject within the scientific community.
Recent research focuses on the Yale Food Addiction Scale, and even its authors won't go so far as to say that food addiction exists, and it also relies on the bugbear of the scientifically minded--self reporting.
Back in 2008, there was a symposium on the topic of Food Addiction, and the findings from it are quite enlightening and might give some food for thought.Taken together, the articles from this symposium provide evidence that neurological similarities exist in the response of humans (6) and rats (7,9) to foods and to drugs. Two of the reports (6,7), as well as our own work (14–16), suggest that even highly palatable food is not addictive in and of itself. Rather, it is the manner in which the food is presented (i.e., intermittently) and consumed (i.e., repeated, intermittent “gorging”) that appears to entrain the addiction-like process. Such consummatory patterns are associated with increased risk for comorbid complications as well as relapse and make treatment particularly challenging. The topic of food addiction bears study, therefore, to develop fresh approaches to clinical intervention and to advance our understanding of basic mechanisms involved in loss of control.
Source: http://jn.nutrition.org/content/139/3/617.full
I have links to other studies and reviews, some much more recent, which support this model of viewing food or eating addiction. If you'd like to see them, just ask.
This opens up a few areas for discussion. One being the point of getting "addicted" in the first place and what leads to it. If restricting leads to binging for a person (not necessarily BED as I was understanding from the literature, but rather over-consumption), I would tend to think that this would support the idea of not restricting in the first place.
However, what if it's too late for that, and you've already been down that road? The good news is that looking at this as an entrenched behavioral response to a cycle of repeated behaviors means you CAN change things. Knowledge is power. Notice that all of this literature says that the foods themselves are not addictive. Thought the body has similar initial neurotransmitter responses, there are further responses to drugs which occur that simply do not happen with fat or sugar in true substance dependency.
So what to do? The first thing is to change your mindset that the food is bad or you are bad. You've just developed a bad habit, and you're going to fix it.
You're not naughty when you have sweets or cheese or anything like that, okay?
Good.
The second thing to do might be to look a little further to see if there's a reason the cycle of behavior became entrenched in the first place. Were you eating in response to emotional/mood triggers and then feeling remorse after indulging? Did you find yourself eating because you were stressed or mildly depressed (serious depression should be handled professionally), or bored?
Well, if you keep digging for answers, that's the first step to finding solutions Exercise is a great stress reliever and good for a case of feeling down. Some people like meditative hobbies like coloring or knitting helpful or woodworking... or actual meditation. Pampering activities like long showers or luxurious baths are good for both stress and mild cases of the blues. Replace the bad habit you've formed with food with a new habit in response to your emotional catalyst.
I'll share my personal experience. What worked for me might not work for you. If you have an extreme case, you might need something like cognitive behavioral therapy.
Personally, I just needed time. Time away from the foods I had trouble with and time to reframe my thinking. Once my head was on straight, and I stopped feeling guilt surrounding my consumption of food, I was ready to eat what used to be problematic food (ice cream, brownies, cheese) again. I no longer consider myself "addicted" and I can eat these things in moderation. I also incorporated exercise into my life and find it's an excellent stress reliever!
I hope that this is helpful to some of you.
Outstanding post.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »My position is that whether or not a person is actually addicted is not especially relevant. What's important is how are they going to manage their relationship with that food. If they feel that they are addicted, something's not working, and something needs to change. That change may take different forms depending on the person and where they are in their journey. There were several good examples in the OP:The second thing to do might be to look a little further to see if there's a reason the cycle of behavior became entrenched in the first place. Were you eating in response to emotional/mood triggers and then feeling remorse after indulging? Did you find yourself eating because you were stressed or mildly depressed (serious depression should be handled professionally), or bored?
Well, if you keep digging for answers, that's the first step to finding solutions Exercise is a great stress reliever and good for a case of feeling down. Some people like meditative hobbies like coloring or knitting helpful or woodworking... or actual meditation. Pampering activities like long showers or luxurious baths are good for both stress and mild cases of the blues. Replace the bad habit you've formed with food with a new habit in response to your emotional catalyst.
I'll share my personal experience. What worked for me might not work for you. If you have an extreme case, you might need something like cognitive behavioral therapy.
Personally, I just needed time. Time away from the foods I had trouble with and time to reframe my thinking. Once my head was on straight, and I stopped feeling guilt surrounding my consumption of food, I was ready to eat what used to be problematic food (ice cream, brownies, cheese) again. I no longer consider myself "addicted" and I can eat these things in moderation. I also incorporated exercise into my life and find it's an excellent stress reliever!
When a person posts that they are addicted and need help, giving information like in the OP is useful, while saying "No you're not" is not.
Many people who claim an addiction have a certain mindset. They feel powerless. Sometimes what the person needs to do is realize that this is not the case; they do have power over what goes into their mouth. But they have to be willing to put in the effort to regain that control. It's not true for everyone, but sometimes taking that initial ownership can be a step in the right direction.
Responses like this sound more like addiction than anything else I read in these type of threads. Because what you are describing is exactly the process most addicts take for recovery.
Right, but realizing they aren't actually addicted could help them take control. They aren't powerless, they aren't addicted. Most people starting posts about being addicted to whatever are using it as an excuse. Helping them understand it's not actually an addiction can be a step in learning control.
It could help them take control, or it could simply anger them enough that go eat another box of Twinkies. You are correct that they aren't powerless, but addicts aren't powerless either.
And I don't believe most people are making an excuse. I think only about half even really think it's an addiction and I think most are simply looking advice from others who felt the same way and got out from under the feeling.
Addicts are powerless over their drug and/alcohol and the effect either (or both) has on them.0 -
I was going to post this separately, but maybe it belongs here. It probably won't interest anyone but me, but I needed to collect my thoughts after reading the research cited below and thought I might as well post it.
So this food addiction debate is something I struggle with. One reason is that I'm 30 years clean from a drug addiction, and while being a former addict isn't central to my identity, it informs my reaction to people claiming to be addicted to food (I am not talking here about people with diagnosed eating disorders). In a purely emotional way, it bothers me that someone would try to say that their food 'addiction' represents the same sort of hell myself and others went through. I know that's irrational on my part, and it's something I have to be careful about when listening to others' experiences.
As a mental health professional and researcher in health-related behavior change, it's clear to me that definitive evidence for addiction to foods simply doesn't exist. And the web of behaviors and thoughts that my clients with eating disorders struggle with is far more complex than "omg I'm addicted to sugar".
BUT...and here's the place where I've struggled...in a small subset of friends and clients, not all of whom are obese/overweight, and none of whom have eating disorders, there is no question that there are what I'd consider to be "markers" of addiction in their food-related behaviors and thought patterns. So I've followed the research, trying to find a way to categorize what I've observed in a way that makes sense, is respectful of their experiences, and allows me to offer meaningful help.
It seemed to me that food "addiction" was more about the compulsive aspect of eating than about specific foods, but the overlap with Binge Eating Disorder made this murky territory. The research on cyclic restriction/binge patterns that Carol references above came closer to describing what food addiction may be, but for me it misses the larger picture (and frankly, a lot of the rodent-based studies haven't translated well to human modeling in this particular area of research).
I may have found a concept that works, though - at least for me. It's summarized in this 2014 research review by scientists in the Integrated Neurobiology of Food Intake, Addiction, and Stress consortium and published in the November 2014 edition of Neuroscience and Behavioral Reviews: “Eating addiction", rather than “food addiction”, better captures addictive-like eating behavior.
Link here: sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149763414002140
Personally and professionally, I can accept the label of "eating addiction" rather than "food addiction". I still believe far too many people (frankly, the majority of those claiming to be food "addicts") apply the "addiction" label to themselves when they're really just talking about the fact that they eat too much and need to stop it. But within that larger group is the much smaller subset of folks who have always left me feeling concerned, because when they are able to articulate their experiences, it sure as hell sounds like addiction to me.
Highlights from the article:
• Evidence for addiction to specific macronutrients is lacking in humans.
• “Eating addiction” describes a behavioral addiction.
• An “eating addiction” is not necessarily associated with obesity.
• Obesity prevention strategies should focus on “eating addiction”.
• Consider “eating addiction” as a disorder in DSM-5 “Non-Substance-Related Disorders”.
I would just like to applaud you for a clear, educated and interesting response to this thread. Thank you for moving the discussion forward0 -
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My apologies. Back on topic:UltimateRBF wrote: »
Justifiably? Whatever. People use different words. I'm able to deal with that.The problem with assuming that everyone is lazy is that when people say, "I can't lose weight!" and aren't lazy, but really do have a problem, they get missed.
I'd rather tell 1000 people who are making excuses that they should get checked out than tell one person who actually needs medical attention that they shouldn't seek it.
I disagree with this. Nothing comes for free - everything comes at the expense of something else. And distracting 999 people with something pointless to *maybe* help 1 person is bad social math and a waste of limited resources.
I personally don't care if people do or don't classify themselves as being addicted. But if they're going to come to a forum, claim they're addicted, and then NOT treat it like an addiction - yeah, they're justifiably going to get called on it.
I get that for some people, it is "important" to "call people out" online. If that's important to you, you have to do what you have to do.
It ain't me, babe. You or anybody else can label your condition or etc using whatever words you want, as far as I'm concerned.Social math that discourages a sick person from seeking medical care...not my kind of math.
That's the exact opposite of what I said.
In fact, sending people in to use resources they don't need is what will limit the ability of someone who actually needs help from getting it - it is *your* position that will cause more health problems, not mine.
No, that's exactly what you said. Maybe you meant to say something else?
The truth is that you don't know who needs to see a doctor and who doesn't. There is absolutely no way to tell, online, what is wrong with someone.
Any time you discourage anyone from seeking medical care, the person could be sick. You don't know.
Because I know that we can't tell who needs care and who doesn't, I would encourage that person to go find out from an ACTUAL professional who is QUALIFIED to evaluate them.
Everyone should be getting check-ups, anyway. It's very, very stupid to blow off your checkups. Every single day, people die of things that wouldn't have killed them if they'd just had their checkup.
You are taking this thread waaay off topic
If people want to use the word "addicted", that's fine with me. I know what they mean. If they have trouble with food, a visit to a doctor is in order, then a dietitian and possibly a therapist who specializes in eating disorders.
Do some foods cause some people to have cravings? Yes. Is it clinical addiction? Got me.
When people use the word "addicted" about food, I know it means a psychological problem.
Even drug use is largely a psychological problem.
Foods don't cause addiction. People only think they do, and the only way to treat it is psychologically.
It's far more helpful to get people to deal with the root problem - their beliefs - rather than let them continue to have a "problem" with the "trigger food" for the rest of their lives.
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daniwilford wrote: »I actually found calling my unhealthy relationship with Pepsi an addiction, helped me. Reading materials that focused on recovering from addiction gave me some valuable tools. Since I don't really need Pepsi, I am planning on abstaining for the rest of my life. Some might say I need a therapy, because I call it an addition but I can't imagine a therapist would agree to treat me for such a silly condition as calling my unhealthy relationship with Pepsi an addiction; or try to help me improve said relationship, so I could drink it in moderation.
Eh... what you experienced was probably akin to something like caffeine addiction, actually.
What was your Pepsi habit that you considered it problematic enough to call it an addiction? That's the whole point of this post? It's all about behaviors. Substituting unhealthy behavior with healthy behavior will help people who don't truly meet the addiction threshold (most of the people on these boards who say they're "addicted" to something) get past their problem.
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Good OP.
I think the resulting commentary is a little light on practical strategies to help people modify behaviour. I would like to share a strategy which relies on no willpower whatsoever but helped me get my severe cravings under control.
Firstly a set out with a plan what I would eat that day and at what times. The meals fits my preferences, likes and calories and were planned to help me feel full. Then if I experienced a need to eat outside of those times I could confidently predict they were not driven by hunger but rather a craving.
I spent some time then trying to step back from the cravings and not to fight it at all but rather consider it - how did it make me feel, was it really that bad, what physical changes was I experiencing (increased heart rate, quickness of breath and so on.) Weird as it sounds I tried to ride the emotions like a wave rather than struggle against them.
Then when I badly wanted to over eat I went through this mental conversation:- Told myself I was good enough, was always good enough and will always be good enough
- Gave myself full permission to eat what I wanted, in whatever quantities I wanted and when I wanted
- Accepted that I had a compulsive desire to eat
- Accepted that I was making a choice to eat but I accepted the consequences of that choice to include meaning I would be fatter, I would be less happy and so on
- Asked myself did I still really want to still eat
If the answer was "yes, I still want it" then I would eat it. The goal was never to be perfect but rather fully mindful. However over time, the answer became more and more "no" and the desire to over eat became less and less.
Now I am one of those intensely annoying people who eats what they want, whenever they want and in whatever quantities yet magically do not over eat. There are periods where I struggle and feel the compulsions taking over but I feel more or less in control as I an use the above strategy to overcome them.0 -
I have felt like an addict with food in past, troubling times.
My solution was to love my health more than the foods. Today, I am confronted with situations where I could eat garbage in excess, but I refrain, because I know what it's doing to my body.
I associate pain and sickness with food binges on demineralized, processed junk foods, so without totally cutting anything out, I have learned moderation and balance.
At day's end there is really no such thing as "food addiction"...
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booksandchocolate12 wrote: »Great post, Carol.
People often ask on these forums, "What was the turning point for you?", meaning, what was your "a ha" moment, where you realized what you had to do to lose weight, and did it.
For me, it was the realization that I was the boss, that I was in control, and that I had to stop blaming foods that were "irresistible" for making me fat.
On another forum (WW), someone mentioned peanut butter and how it wasn't enough for them to just eat the serving they had portioned out. They always ate more because they "had to" lick the knife as well. Had to. I said, "You don't have to; you choose to". But they weren't ready to hear that and I was called "mean".
Like I've never heard that before
There lies the problem...they weren't read to hear that.
I guess it concerns me that a random internet stranger is deciding when and how another person faces up to the truth. Are we really qualified to make that decision? I don't know...maybe I err on the side of caution. I didn't once...it didn't turn out well. I regret the words that I said that day. I thought the words that I said would help...they didn't. Maybe that is why I am so cautious.
May I ask...did you come to the realization that you were in control because someone was "brutally honest" with you or because you were ready to hear the words?
Just to add...I actually agree with you...the majority of us have ended up where we are through bad choices.
There is this saying...
You cannot control what happens to you, but you can control your attitude toward what happens to you, and in that, you will be mastering change rather than allowing it to master you. - Brian Tracy
See, in a case like this, I think you *can* control what happens to you! You do need to realize that you're not a helpless victim though, take ownership of it and make positive and healthy changes.
Reminds me of the saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." But if you didn't lead him to the water in the first place, he had no chance of drinking it because it wasn't available for him to make that choice.
I feel the same way about providing people with information here. They can pretty much decide to take it or leave it. But if it's not there for the taking, the opportunity for them to perhaps learn is lost.
And bear in mind that when advice like this is given - be it that you're not truly addicted to M&Ms or whatever your particular food vice is - because this is a public forum, if the OP of any particular 'addicted to' thread is just not ready to take control of their eating and make positive, permanent changes, perhaps some of the lurkers actually *are.*
And that's important to remember. 0 -
Lurker here
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