Question For Seasoned 5k Athletes: How Do I Drop My Times?
mgherkins
Posts: 8 Member
I have been running 5ks for over 6 years now. I have a PR of 19:24 but I want to drop down it down to the low 18 mins. Anyone have advice on how I can do this without getting burn out in my legs?
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Replies
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How often do you run during the week? I find that when I run consistently, I run faster. Speed work helps, as well.
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How often do you stretch out to, say, 10k?
More generally - how have you been training so far?0 -
At least one day a week should be dedicated to speedwork, such as, interval training and tempo runs. Hal Higdon has some programs to decrease your times if you like following a set plan. Otherwise, just google interval training and 5ks to make up your own plan.
Intervals are very akin to track workouts. Depending on the plan you use, they'll have you doing anything from 100-200 m dashes to 800m intervals. Tempo runs are a bit different. Let's say you are targeting 6 minute pace and doing a 15 min training run. You would do a warm up that isn't included in the training run. Then, the first 5 min, you run at 6:30, the second 5 min you run at 6:00, and the final 5 min you run at 6:30. Then you cool (warm) down. The idea is that the middle 5 minutes eventually becomes 6, 7, 10, minutes and then you can do 6 minutes the whole way. There are a lot of variations on this theme (like having the tempo run peak faster than your race pace), so pick one that works for you.0 -
I agree: interval training; but more high intensity interval training [HIIT] where you have shorter bursts of speed followed by jogging slowly.
Here are some articles:
http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/run-faster-with-high-intensity-interval-training
http://www.shutupandrun.net/2012/07/go-faster-leaner-and-longer-with-hiit.html
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Just ignore me.0
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Run faster.
Or cheat.0 -
Interval training. Intervals near or at VO2max. 400/800 repeats are a good length.
Hill sprints.
Just...run more (longer distance per week).
Strength training.
Plyometrics.0 -
no one can give you specific advice until we know what your current training regimen is.0
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Run every day like it's a race. Whether you're doing 3 miles or 10 miles, run it like it's a race. Shaving seconds off will get easier when you're used to running at high intensity for longer.0
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Run every day like it's a race. Whether you're doing 3 miles or 10 miles, run it like it's a race. Shaving seconds off will get easier when you're used to running at high intensity for longer.
Uhh no... Recipe for injury. Don't do this.
Clearly you can run. 19:xx 5k is nothing to sneeze at. So you clearly had some talent to get yourself there. At this point the best you can do is run more. A lot more. 6 days a week. 3 of those days should be relatively easy runs. 45 minutes to an hour or so at comfortable pace (probably 8:00/mi I am guessing).
One of the days should be a speed day. For a 5k you want to be building speed in the 400 and 800m interval range. If you are looking for an 18:xx 5k you want to be working on 400s in the 70-80 second range and 800s in the 2:50-3:00 range.
So your interval day will look something like a 2-mi warmup, 6x800 at 2:50-3:00 with a 2 minute rest between, 2 mi cooldown. That sort of thing.
Then another day should be a tempo run. Look to be running a decent 10k pace for 3ish miles in the middle. Figuring like a 2 mile warmup, 3-4 miles at 6:20-6:30 pace, 1 mi cooldown.
Then long run day. Long runs are important. Even if you aren't training for anything longer than 5k or 10k, you would be doing yourself a disservice to not have an 8-10 mile run in there as well. Slow is the name of the game here. You aren't trying to break any personal records, just adapt to being on your feet running for a bit longer than the race distance. 8:00-8:30 pace for this.
You are looking for seconds at this point, instead of minutes, so it's going to take doing the little things right. You got all the low-hanging fruit already to get to <20.0 -
Worked well for me when I was competing. Guess it sounds like it's not for everyone.0 -
Worked well for me when I was competing. Guess it sounds like it's not for everyone.
Then imaging what you could have done with a proper training plan!0 -
Run every day like it's a race. Whether you're doing 3 miles or 10 miles, run it like it's a race. Shaving seconds off will get easier when you're used to running at high intensity for longer.
Uhh no... Recipe for injury. Don't do this.
Clearly you can run. 19:xx 5k is nothing to sneeze at. So you clearly had some talent to get yourself there. At this point the best you can do is run more. A lot more. 6 days a week. 3 of those days should be relatively easy runs. 45 minutes to an hour or so at comfortable pace (probably 8:00/mi I am guessing).
One of the days should be a speed day. For a 5k you want to be building speed in the 400 and 800m interval range. If you are looking for an 18:xx 5k you want to be working on 400s in the 70-80 second range and 800s in the 2:50-3:00 range.
So your interval day will look something like a 2-mi warmup, 6x800 at 2:50-3:00 with a 2 minute rest between, 2 mi cooldown. That sort of thing.
Then another day should be a tempo run. Look to be running a decent 10k pace for 3ish miles in the middle. Figuring like a 2 mile warmup, 3-4 miles at 6:20-6:30 pace, 1 mi cooldown.
Then long run day. Long runs are important. Even if you aren't training for anything longer than 5k or 10k, you would be doing yourself a disservice to not have an 8-10 mile run in there as well. Slow is the name of the game here. You aren't trying to break any personal records, just adapt to being on your feet running for a bit longer than the race distance. 8:00-8:30 pace for this.
You are looking for seconds at this point, instead of minutes, so it's going to take doing the little things right. You got all the low-hanging fruit already to get to <20.
This is a *really* good post.
:drinker:0 -
My 5k PR is 23:31 and I hope one day to run a sub 20 minute 5K. Here's what I'm doing: hiring a personal running coach who can run a sub 15 minute 5K to help me.
It may be that you need some targeted advice and could benefit from something like this.0 -
I run Monday thru Saturday and will run anywhere from 7-10 miles at a 7:30 or lower paceUltraRunnerGale wrote: »How often do you run during the week? I find that when I run consistently, I run faster. Speed work helps, as well.
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My current training regime is my normal distance runs are 7-10 miles at 7:30 or faster pace. I have speed workouts 1 or 2 times a week. The type depends on how I ran in my race the prior race. It could be 400/800s, mile repeats, or up temps. I also do hard hill repeats every Saturday before my season starts and about every Saturday I'm not racing during season. I do core every morning after workouts and after lifting or pool workouts in the afternoons.no one can give you specific advice until we know what your current training regimen is.
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arussell134 wrote: »My 5k PR is 23:31 and I hope one day to run a sub 20 minute 5K. Here's what I'm doing: hiring a personal running coach who can run a sub 15 minute 5K to help me.
It may be that you need some targeted advice and could benefit from something like this.
That's what I'm thinking, too. With the details OP has offered, he/she has already achieved a level of awesomeness that is well beyond the help of the kind of generic advice a chat board can offer.
(No snark, I'm impressed)
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Run every day like it's a race. Whether you're doing 3 miles or 10 miles, run it like it's a race. Shaving seconds off will get easier when you're used to running at high intensity for longer.
Uhh no... Recipe for injury. Don't do this.
Clearly you can run. 19:xx 5k is nothing to sneeze at. So you clearly had some talent to get yourself there. At this point the best you can do is run more. A lot more. 6 days a week. 3 of those days should be relatively easy runs. 45 minutes to an hour or so at comfortable pace (probably 8:00/mi I am guessing).
One of the days should be a speed day. For a 5k you want to be building speed in the 400 and 800m interval range. If you are looking for an 18:xx 5k you want to be working on 400s in the 70-80 second range and 800s in the 2:50-3:00 range.
So your interval day will look something like a 2-mi warmup, 6x800 at 2:50-3:00 with a 2 minute rest between, 2 mi cooldown. That sort of thing.
Then another day should be a tempo run. Look to be running a decent 10k pace for 3ish miles in the middle. Figuring like a 2 mile warmup, 3-4 miles at 6:20-6:30 pace, 1 mi cooldown.
Then long run day. Long runs are important. Even if you aren't training for anything longer than 5k or 10k, you would be doing yourself a disservice to not have an 8-10 mile run in there as well. Slow is the name of the game here. You aren't trying to break any personal records, just adapt to being on your feet running for a bit longer than the race distance. 8:00-8:30 pace for this.
You are looking for seconds at this point, instead of minutes, so it's going to take doing the little things right. You got all the low-hanging fruit already to get to <20.
This is a *really* good post.
:drinker:
This is really helpful thank you!0 -
My current training regime is my normal distance runs are 7-10 miles at 7:30 or faster pace. I have speed workouts 1 or 2 times a week. The type depends on how I ran in my race the prior race. It could be 400/800s, mile repeats, or up temps. I also do hard hill repeats every Saturday before my season starts and about every Saturday I'm not racing during season. I do core every morning after workouts and after lifting or pool workouts in the afternoons.no one can give you specific advice until we know what your current training regimen is.
Based on this and the fact that you run 6 days a week, it sounds like you're working awfully hard for the 19:24. I'd be tempted to slow your normal runs down to around 8m/m, have a recovery day after a hard session (so only about 4-6 miles instead of 7-10) and make up the rest of your (easy) miles by doing a long run once a week of about 12 miles.
How much warm-up/cool-down do you do when you do your speed workouts or hill repeats? If it's not much, then you would probably benefit from increasing your total mileage. It's hard to tell from what you've posted whether you're doing 6x 7-10 miles (i.e. 42-70 miles per week, which is plenty) or more like 3x 7 miles plus some sessions, which might come out more like 35-40 miles.0 -
Don't mind me - tagging for reference0
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Run every day like it's a race. Whether you're doing 3 miles or 10 miles, run it like it's a race. Shaving seconds off will get easier when you're used to running at high intensity for longer.
Uhh no... Recipe for injury. Don't do this.
Clearly you can run. 19:xx 5k is nothing to sneeze at. So you clearly had some talent to get yourself there. At this point the best you can do is run more. A lot more. 6 days a week. 3 of those days should be relatively easy runs. 45 minutes to an hour or so at comfortable pace (probably 8:00/mi I am guessing).
One of the days should be a speed day. For a 5k you want to be building speed in the 400 and 800m interval range. If you are looking for an 18:xx 5k you want to be working on 400s in the 70-80 second range and 800s in the 2:50-3:00 range.
So your interval day will look something like a 2-mi warmup, 6x800 at 2:50-3:00 with a 2 minute rest between, 2 mi cooldown. That sort of thing.
Then another day should be a tempo run. Look to be running a decent 10k pace for 3ish miles in the middle. Figuring like a 2 mile warmup, 3-4 miles at 6:20-6:30 pace, 1 mi cooldown.
Then long run day. Long runs are important. Even if you aren't training for anything longer than 5k or 10k, you would be doing yourself a disservice to not have an 8-10 mile run in there as well. Slow is the name of the game here. You aren't trying to break any personal records, just adapt to being on your feet running for a bit longer than the race distance. 8:00-8:30 pace for this.
You are looking for seconds at this point, instead of minutes, so it's going to take doing the little things right. You got all the low-hanging fruit already to get to <20.
this is spot on.
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My current training regime is my normal distance runs are 7-10 miles at 7:30 or faster pace. I have speed workouts 1 or 2 times a week. The type depends on how I ran in my race the prior race. It could be 400/800s, mile repeats, or up temps. I also do hard hill repeats every Saturday before my season starts and about every Saturday I'm not racing during season. I do core every morning after workouts and after lifting or pool workouts in the afternoons.no one can give you specific advice until we know what your current training regimen is.
Based on this and the fact that you run 6 days a week, it sounds like you're working awfully hard for the 19:24. I'd be tempted to slow your normal runs down to around 8m/m, have a recovery day after a hard session (so only about 4-6 miles instead of 7-10) and make up the rest of your (easy) miles by doing a long run once a week of about 12 miles.
How much warm-up/cool-down do you do when you do your speed workouts or hill repeats? If it's not much, then you would probably benefit from increasing your total mileage. It's hard to tell from what you've posted whether you're doing 6x 7-10 miles (i.e. 42-70 miles per week, which is plenty) or more like 3x 7 miles plus some sessions, which might come out more like 35-40 miles.
I do 15 or 2 mile warm ups and 10 to 15 min cool downs and I do more of 45-60 miles a week
0 -
My current training regime is my normal distance runs are 7-10 miles at 7:30 or faster pace. I have speed workouts 1 or 2 times a week. The type depends on how I ran in my race the prior race. It could be 400/800s, mile repeats, or up temps. I also do hard hill repeats every Saturday before my season starts and about every Saturday I'm not racing during season. I do core every morning after workouts and after lifting or pool workouts in the afternoons.no one can give you specific advice until we know what your current training regimen is.
Based on this and the fact that you run 6 days a week, it sounds like you're working awfully hard for the 19:24. I'd be tempted to slow your normal runs down to around 8m/m, have a recovery day after a hard session (so only about 4-6 miles instead of 7-10) and make up the rest of your (easy) miles by doing a long run once a week of about 12 miles.
How much warm-up/cool-down do you do when you do your speed workouts or hill repeats? If it's not much, then you would probably benefit from increasing your total mileage. It's hard to tell from what you've posted whether you're doing 6x 7-10 miles (i.e. 42-70 miles per week, which is plenty) or more like 3x 7 miles plus some sessions, which might come out more like 35-40 miles.
I do 15 or 2 mile warm ups and 10 to 15 min cool downs and I do more of 45-60 miles a week
Okay, in which case, you probably don't need more miles, but you may well need more easy running and recovery. How long have you been doing this mileage for, when is your 5k PR from, and are you still gradually improving, or have you been around the 19:2x level for a while?0 -
I run Monday thru Saturday and will run anywhere from 7-10 miles at a 7:30 or lower paceUltraRunnerGale wrote: »How often do you run during the week? I find that when I run consistently, I run faster. Speed work helps, as well.
Ok... sounds like you are running consistently. Maybe a running coach would help. I just started working with one. He is online and he is reasonable. I know others that he coaches and he definitely helps people get results. It's RunNerdsRock.com. Michael Scott on Facebook. I highly recommend him.
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Run every day like it's a race. Whether you're doing 3 miles or 10 miles, run it like it's a race. Shaving seconds off will get easier when you're used to running at high intensity for longer.
Clearly you can run. 19:xx 5k is nothing to sneeze at. So you clearly had some talent to get yourself there. At this point the best you can do is run more. A lot more. 6 days a week. 3 of those days should be relatively easy runs. 45 minutes to an hour or so at comfortable pace (probably 8:00/mi I am guessing).
One of the days should be a speed day. For a 5k you want to be building speed in the 400 and 800m interval range. If you are looking for an 18:xx 5k you want to be working on 400s in the 70-80 second range and 800s in the 2:50-3:00 range.
So your interval day will look something like a 2-mi warmup, 6x800 at 2:50-3:00 with a 2 minute rest between, 2 mi cooldown. That sort of thing.
Then another day should be a tempo run. Look to be running a decent 10k pace for 3ish miles in the middle. Figuring like a 2 mile warmup, 3-4 miles at 6:20-6:30 pace, 1 mi cooldown.
Then long run day. Long runs are important. Even if you aren't training for anything longer than 5k or 10k, you would be doing yourself a disservice to not have an 8-10 mile run in there as well. Slow is the name of the game here. You aren't trying to break any personal records, just adapt to being on your feet running for a bit longer than the race distance. 8:00-8:30 pace for this.
You are looking for seconds at this point, instead of minutes, so it's going to take doing the little things right. You got all the low-hanging fruit already to get to <20.
Could not have put this any better - great post!0 -
Worked well for me when I was competing. Guess it sounds like it's not for everyone.
Then imaging what you could have done with a proper training plan!
:laugh:0 -
My current training regime is my normal distance runs are 7-10 miles at 7:30 or faster pace. I have speed workouts 1 or 2 times a week. The type depends on how I ran in my race the prior race. It could be 400/800s, mile repeats, or up temps. I also do hard hill repeats every Saturday before my season starts and about every Saturday I'm not racing during season. I do core every morning after workouts and after lifting or pool workouts in the afternoons.no one can give you specific advice until we know what your current training regimen is.
Based on this and the fact that you run 6 days a week, it sounds like you're working awfully hard for the 19:24. I'd be tempted to slow your normal runs down to around 8m/m, have a recovery day after a hard session (so only about 4-6 miles instead of 7-10) and make up the rest of your (easy) miles by doing a long run once a week of about 12 miles.
How much warm-up/cool-down do you do when you do your speed workouts or hill repeats? If it's not much, then you would probably benefit from increasing your total mileage. It's hard to tell from what you've posted whether you're doing 6x 7-10 miles (i.e. 42-70 miles per week, which is plenty) or more like 3x 7 miles plus some sessions, which might come out more like 35-40 miles.
I do 15 or 2 mile warm ups and 10 to 15 min cool downs and I do more of 45-60 miles a week
Okay, in which case, you probably don't need more miles, but you may well need more easy running and recovery. How long have you been doing this mileage for, when is your 5k PR from, and are you still gradually improving, or have you been around the 19:2x level for a while?
The 19:24 was my PR from my last season so not to long ago, each year I've competed I've been dropping a minute or more off my times
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My current training regime is my normal distance runs are 7-10 miles at 7:30 or faster pace. I have speed workouts 1 or 2 times a week. The type depends on how I ran in my race the prior race. It could be 400/800s, mile repeats, or up temps. I also do hard hill repeats every Saturday before my season starts and about every Saturday I'm not racing during season. I do core every morning after workouts and after lifting or pool workouts in the afternoons.no one can give you specific advice until we know what your current training regimen is.
Based on this and the fact that you run 6 days a week, it sounds like you're working awfully hard for the 19:24. I'd be tempted to slow your normal runs down to around 8m/m, have a recovery day after a hard session (so only about 4-6 miles instead of 7-10) and make up the rest of your (easy) miles by doing a long run once a week of about 12 miles.
How much warm-up/cool-down do you do when you do your speed workouts or hill repeats? If it's not much, then you would probably benefit from increasing your total mileage. It's hard to tell from what you've posted whether you're doing 6x 7-10 miles (i.e. 42-70 miles per week, which is plenty) or more like 3x 7 miles plus some sessions, which might come out more like 35-40 miles.
I do 15 or 2 mile warm ups and 10 to 15 min cool downs and I do more of 45-60 miles a week
Okay, in which case, you probably don't need more miles, but you may well need more easy running and recovery. How long have you been doing this mileage for, when is your 5k PR from, and are you still gradually improving, or have you been around the 19:2x level for a while?
The 19:24 was my PR from my last season so not to long ago, each year I've competed I've been dropping a minute or more off my times
you do realize at some point you're not going to be fighting for minutes- but seconds- the closer you get to the top- the smaller the increment you fight to shave off.0 -
My current training regime is my normal distance runs are 7-10 miles at 7:30 or faster pace. I have speed workouts 1 or 2 times a week. The type depends on how I ran in my race the prior race. It could be 400/800s, mile repeats, or up temps. I also do hard hill repeats every Saturday before my season starts and about every Saturday I'm not racing during season. I do core every morning after workouts and after lifting or pool workouts in the afternoons.no one can give you specific advice until we know what your current training regimen is.
Based on this and the fact that you run 6 days a week, it sounds like you're working awfully hard for the 19:24. I'd be tempted to slow your normal runs down to around 8m/m, have a recovery day after a hard session (so only about 4-6 miles instead of 7-10) and make up the rest of your (easy) miles by doing a long run once a week of about 12 miles.
How much warm-up/cool-down do you do when you do your speed workouts or hill repeats? If it's not much, then you would probably benefit from increasing your total mileage. It's hard to tell from what you've posted whether you're doing 6x 7-10 miles (i.e. 42-70 miles per week, which is plenty) or more like 3x 7 miles plus some sessions, which might come out more like 35-40 miles.
I do 15 or 2 mile warm ups and 10 to 15 min cool downs and I do more of 45-60 miles a week
Okay, in which case, you probably don't need more miles, but you may well need more easy running and recovery. How long have you been doing this mileage for, when is your 5k PR from, and are you still gradually improving, or have you been around the 19:2x level for a while?
The 19:24 was my PR from my last season so not to long ago, each year I've competed I've been dropping a minute or more off my times
you do realize at some point you're not going to be fighting for minutes- but seconds- the closer you get to the top- the smaller the increment you fight to shave off.
I always fight for a lower time, wether second or minutes. Each time I face my goal is to be better than the last time
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