HCLF Vegan?

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  • aledba
    aledba Posts: 564 Member
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    akaalex1586 wrote: »
    ...but at least you can still drink on his plan. feel free to ask me any questions

    I have a question! Why is alcohol acceptable (assuming that's what drinks are) , but fat is bad?
  • cld111
    cld111 Posts: 300 Member
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    aledba wrote: »
    akaalex1586 wrote: »
    ...but at least you can still drink on his plan. feel free to ask me any questions

    I have a question! Why is alcohol acceptable (assuming that's what drinks are) , but fat is bad?

    The McDougall Plan does not exactly encourage alcohol, but Dr. McDougall doesn't say you can have it if you can moderate it (and says that people, generally speaking, have an issue with moderation). Fat is not bad. Added oils are not allowed (if you're strictly following the program), but fats from whole foods - nuts, seeds, avocados - are ok. Just not in huge quantities.
  • pinggolfer96
    pinggolfer96 Posts: 2,248 Member
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    B_TEEN wrote: »
    pinggolfer96 wrote: »
    ...but when it comes to the facts.....fat and protein are ESSENTIAL to life.

    I love these opportunities to understand the perspective of others and fine tune my understanding of a subject.

    So what makes a nutrient essential?
    An essential nutrient is a nutrient required for normal human body function that either cannot be synthesized by the body at all, or cannot be synthesized in amounts adequate for good health (e.g., niacin, choline), and thus must be obtained from a dietary source. Source: 1, 2 and 3
    For those that follow a HCLF or some variation of whole-foods, plant-based diet (and eats sufficient calories) will receive sufficient macronutrients and micronutrients from vegetables, fruits, legumes, seeds and nuts but may be required to supplement vitamins B12 and D. As animal consumption is eliminated and plant-oils either limited or eliminated, a HCLF/WFPB dieter's macronutrient composition will be approximately C:70-90%, F:5-15%, P:5-15%.

    pinggolfer96 wrote: »
    ...but when it comes to the facts.....fat and protein are ESSENTIAL to life. Carbs are only there to help perform at optimum levels. Nothing against carbs (I love them) but you don't need them to survive.
    Why would your body need carbohydrates to survive (i.e. how are carbohydrates used)?
    • Carbohydrates are the body’s main source of fuel. Per NIH*, they are the most important source of energy for your body.
    • All of the tissues and cells in our body can use glucose for energy.
    • Carbohydrates are needed for the central nervous system, the kidneys, the brain (uses primarily glucose as its energy source), the muscles (including the heart) to function properly.
    • Carbohydrates are important in intestinal health and waste elimination. (Thank you FIBER!!)
    Source: 1, 2, *3

    Yes, carbohydrates are essential and can be found in the healthiest form available - whole, plant foods. The healing powers and benefits of whole, plant-based foods have been destroyed by food manufacturers. This empire created big business by refining plant foods, stripping away their benefits, to create nutritionally poor, unhealthy manufactured goods. The composition of these so called commodity goods are largely refined sugar, wheat, rice and corn. The narrative of refined goods are bad have been unfairly publicized as all carbs are bad and/or unnecessary to function.

    To suggest (unrefined) carbohydrates are inessential is a public disservice. Rather, help people make better food choices by providing information.

    My advice, irregardless to your preference on animal products, eat the rainbow (of fruits, vegetables, & legumes) in abundance and enjoy grains, seeds, and nuts as needed.


    Haha this stuff makes me lol. How can people survive on keto then? Yes carbs may be important for energy and glucose levels, but we can also create glucose via proteins and our bodies can run off of ketones/ fat. Most people carbs on keto come from fiber and micro dense greens which provide very little energy. You are claiming that with HCLF you have to supplement certain micros......right there is where I'd draw the line on a diet considering you HAVE to supplement the diet cause it doesn't give you all the nutrition you need...
  • melimomTARDIS
    melimomTARDIS Posts: 1,941 Member
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    I enjoy mcdougall style eating, and I own one of his books and have seen quite a few of his talks on YouTube. I do find that eating 70/15/15 or even 80/10/10 seemed to trigger bingeing behavior in myself during the 6 or so months I was on it. So while I still eat beans, whole grains, fruit etc I find I have more success when my macros are more balanced. So I eat olives, nuts, margarine and even a little canola oil to provide satiety
  • melimomTARDIS
    melimomTARDIS Posts: 1,941 Member
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    pinggolfer96 wrote: »
    B_TEEN wrote: »
    pinggolfer96 wrote: »
    ...but when it comes to the facts.....fat and protein are ESSENTIAL to life.

    I love these opportunities to understand the perspective of others and fine tune my understanding of a subject.

    So what makes a nutrient essential?
    An essential nutrient is a nutrient required for normal human body function that either cannot be synthesized by the body at all, or cannot be synthesized in amounts adequate for good health (e.g., niacin, choline), and thus must be obtained from a dietary source. Source: 1, 2 and 3
    For those that follow a HCLF or some variation of whole-foods, plant-based diet (and eats sufficient calories) will receive sufficient macronutrients and micronutrients from vegetables, fruits, legumes, seeds and nuts but may be required to supplement vitamins B12 and D. As animal consumption is eliminated and plant-oils either limited or eliminated, a HCLF/WFPB dieter's macronutrient composition will be approximately C:70-90%, F:5-15%, P:5-15%.

    pinggolfer96 wrote: »
    ...but when it comes to the facts.....fat and protein are ESSENTIAL to life. Carbs are only there to help perform at optimum levels. Nothing against carbs (I love them) but you don't need them to survive.
    Why would your body need carbohydrates to survive (i.e. how are carbohydrates used)?
    • Carbohydrates are the body’s main source of fuel. Per NIH*, they are the most important source of energy for your body.
    • All of the tissues and cells in our body can use glucose for energy.
    • Carbohydrates are needed for the central nervous system, the kidneys, the brain (uses primarily glucose as its energy source), the muscles (including the heart) to function properly.
    • Carbohydrates are important in intestinal health and waste elimination. (Thank you FIBER!!)
    Source: 1, 2, *3

    Yes, carbohydrates are essential and can be found in the healthiest form available - whole, plant foods. The healing powers and benefits of whole, plant-based foods have been destroyed by food manufacturers. This empire created big business by refining plant foods, stripping away their benefits, to create nutritionally poor, unhealthy manufactured goods. The composition of these so called commodity goods are largely refined sugar, wheat, rice and corn. The narrative of refined goods are bad have been unfairly publicized as all carbs are bad and/or unnecessary to function.

    To suggest (unrefined) carbohydrates are inessential is a public disservice. Rather, help people make better food choices by providing information.

    My advice, irregardless to your preference on animal products, eat the rainbow (of fruits, vegetables, & legumes) in abundance and enjoy grains, seeds, and nuts as needed.


    Haha this stuff makes me lol. How can people survive on keto then? Yes carbs may be important for energy and glucose levels, but we can also create glucose via proteins and our bodies can run off of ketones/ fat. Most people carbs on keto come from fiber and micro dense greens which provide very little energy. You are claiming that with HCLF you have to supplement certain micros......right there is where I'd draw the line on a diet considering you HAVE to supplement the diet cause it doesn't give you all the nutrition you need...

    Keto folks take supplements as well. I have heard of them taking potassium supplements or using a "lite salt" to reach their goals.
  • pinggolfer96
    pinggolfer96 Posts: 2,248 Member
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    melimomTARDIS wrote: »
    pinggolfer96 wrote: »
    B_TEEN wrote: »
    pinggolfer96 wrote: »
    ...but when it comes to the facts.....fat and protein are ESSENTIAL to life.

    I love these opportunities to understand the perspective of others and fine tune my understanding of a subject.

    So what makes a nutrient essential?
    An essential nutrient is a nutrient required for normal human body function that either cannot be synthesized by the body at all, or cannot be synthesized in amounts adequate for good health (e.g., niacin, choline), and thus must be obtained from a dietary source. Source: 1, 2 and 3
    For those that follow a HCLF or some variation of whole-foods, plant-based diet (and eats sufficient calories) will receive sufficient macronutrients and micronutrients from vegetables, fruits, legumes, seeds and nuts but may be required to supplement vitamins B12 and D. As animal consumption is eliminated and plant-oils either limited or eliminated, a HCLF/WFPB dieter's macronutrient composition will be approximately C:70-90%, F:5-15%, P:5-15%.

    pinggolfer96 wrote: »
    ...but when it comes to the facts.....fat and protein are ESSENTIAL to life. Carbs are only there to help perform at optimum levels. Nothing against carbs (I love them) but you don't need them to survive.
    Why would your body need carbohydrates to survive (i.e. how are carbohydrates used)?
    • Carbohydrates are the body’s main source of fuel. Per NIH*, they are the most important source of energy for your body.
    • All of the tissues and cells in our body can use glucose for energy.
    • Carbohydrates are needed for the central nervous system, the kidneys, the brain (uses primarily glucose as its energy source), the muscles (including the heart) to function properly.
    • Carbohydrates are important in intestinal health and waste elimination. (Thank you FIBER!!)
    Source: 1, 2, *3

    Yes, carbohydrates are essential and can be found in the healthiest form available - whole, plant foods. The healing powers and benefits of whole, plant-based foods have been destroyed by food manufacturers. This empire created big business by refining plant foods, stripping away their benefits, to create nutritionally poor, unhealthy manufactured goods. The composition of these so called commodity goods are largely refined sugar, wheat, rice and corn. The narrative of refined goods are bad have been unfairly publicized as all carbs are bad and/or unnecessary to function.

    To suggest (unrefined) carbohydrates are inessential is a public disservice. Rather, help people make better food choices by providing information.

    My advice, irregardless to your preference on animal products, eat the rainbow (of fruits, vegetables, & legumes) in abundance and enjoy grains, seeds, and nuts as needed.


    Haha this stuff makes me lol. How can people survive on keto then? Yes carbs may be important for energy and glucose levels, but we can also create glucose via proteins and our bodies can run off of ketones/ fat. Most people carbs on keto come from fiber and micro dense greens which provide very little energy. You are claiming that with HCLF you have to supplement certain micros......right there is where I'd draw the line on a diet considering you HAVE to supplement the diet cause it doesn't give you all the nutrition you need...

    Keto folks take supplements as well. I have heard of them taking potassium supplements or using a "lite salt" to reach their goals.

    I don't doubt they take supplements, which is one of the reasons I'm not on keto. I have a balanced macronutrient diet. I was just making a point that low fat diets can harm and impact your health in a negative way.

  • cld111
    cld111 Posts: 300 Member
    Options
    pinggolfer96 wrote: »
    B_TEEN wrote: »
    pinggolfer96 wrote: »
    ...but when it comes to the facts.....fat and protein are ESSENTIAL to life.

    I love these opportunities to understand the perspective of others and fine tune my understanding of a subject.

    So what makes a nutrient essential?
    An essential nutrient is a nutrient required for normal human body function that either cannot be synthesized by the body at all, or cannot be synthesized in amounts adequate for good health (e.g., niacin, choline), and thus must be obtained from a dietary source. Source: 1, 2 and 3
    For those that follow a HCLF or some variation of whole-foods, plant-based diet (and eats sufficient calories) will receive sufficient macronutrients and micronutrients from vegetables, fruits, legumes, seeds and nuts but may be required to supplement vitamins B12 and D. As animal consumption is eliminated and plant-oils either limited or eliminated, a HCLF/WFPB dieter's macronutrient composition will be approximately C:70-90%, F:5-15%, P:5-15%.

    pinggolfer96 wrote: »
    ...but when it comes to the facts.....fat and protein are ESSENTIAL to life. Carbs are only there to help perform at optimum levels. Nothing against carbs (I love them) but you don't need them to survive.
    Why would your body need carbohydrates to survive (i.e. how are carbohydrates used)?
    • Carbohydrates are the body’s main source of fuel. Per NIH*, they are the most important source of energy for your body.
    • All of the tissues and cells in our body can use glucose for energy.
    • Carbohydrates are needed for the central nervous system, the kidneys, the brain (uses primarily glucose as its energy source), the muscles (including the heart) to function properly.
    • Carbohydrates are important in intestinal health and waste elimination. (Thank you FIBER!!)
    Source: 1, 2, *3

    Yes, carbohydrates are essential and can be found in the healthiest form available - whole, plant foods. The healing powers and benefits of whole, plant-based foods have been destroyed by food manufacturers. This empire created big business by refining plant foods, stripping away their benefits, to create nutritionally poor, unhealthy manufactured goods. The composition of these so called commodity goods are largely refined sugar, wheat, rice and corn. The narrative of refined goods are bad have been unfairly publicized as all carbs are bad and/or unnecessary to function.

    To suggest (unrefined) carbohydrates are inessential is a public disservice. Rather, help people make better food choices by providing information.

    My advice, irregardless to your preference on animal products, eat the rainbow (of fruits, vegetables, & legumes) in abundance and enjoy grains, seeds, and nuts as needed.


    Haha this stuff makes me lol. How can people survive on keto then? Yes carbs may be important for energy and glucose levels, but we can also create glucose via proteins and our bodies can run off of ketones/ fat. Most people carbs on keto come from fiber and micro dense greens which provide very little energy. You are claiming that with HCLF you have to supplement certain micros......right there is where I'd draw the line on a diet considering you HAVE to supplement the diet cause it doesn't give you all the nutrition you need...

    I assume you're talking about vitamin B12. Animals get B12 from the dirt when they're eating. So what do you think happens with cows, pigs, chickens that are locked up in factory farms? Where do they get their B12 from? They are supplemented with it. I read a stat that said the factory farmed animals get 90% of the B12 that's distributed in the U.S. So, meat eaters are supplementing too. Plant-based eaters / vegans who supplement just cut out the middle man, er animal.
  • pinggolfer96
    pinggolfer96 Posts: 2,248 Member
    Options
    cld111 wrote: »
    pinggolfer96 wrote: »
    B_TEEN wrote: »
    pinggolfer96 wrote: »
    ...but when it comes to the facts.....fat and protein are ESSENTIAL to life.

    I love these opportunities to understand the perspective of others and fine tune my understanding of a subject.

    So what makes a nutrient essential?
    An essential nutrient is a nutrient required for normal human body function that either cannot be synthesized by the body at all, or cannot be synthesized in amounts adequate for good health (e.g., niacin, choline), and thus must be obtained from a dietary source. Source: 1, 2 and 3
    For those that follow a HCLF or some variation of whole-foods, plant-based diet (and eats sufficient calories) will receive sufficient macronutrients and micronutrients from vegetables, fruits, legumes, seeds and nuts but may be required to supplement vitamins B12 and D. As animal consumption is eliminated and plant-oils either limited or eliminated, a HCLF/WFPB dieter's macronutrient composition will be approximately C:70-90%, F:5-15%, P:5-15%.

    pinggolfer96 wrote: »
    ...but when it comes to the facts.....fat and protein are ESSENTIAL to life. Carbs are only there to help perform at optimum levels. Nothing against carbs (I love them) but you don't need them to survive.
    Why would your body need carbohydrates to survive (i.e. how are carbohydrates used)?
    • Carbohydrates are the body’s main source of fuel. Per NIH*, they are the most important source of energy for your body.
    • All of the tissues and cells in our body can use glucose for energy.
    • Carbohydrates are needed for the central nervous system, the kidneys, the brain (uses primarily glucose as its energy source), the muscles (including the heart) to function properly.
    • Carbohydrates are important in intestinal health and waste elimination. (Thank you FIBER!!)
    Source: 1, 2, *3

    Yes, carbohydrates are essential and can be found in the healthiest form available - whole, plant foods. The healing powers and benefits of whole, plant-based foods have been destroyed by food manufacturers. This empire created big business by refining plant foods, stripping away their benefits, to create nutritionally poor, unhealthy manufactured goods. The composition of these so called commodity goods are largely refined sugar, wheat, rice and corn. The narrative of refined goods are bad have been unfairly publicized as all carbs are bad and/or unnecessary to function.

    To suggest (unrefined) carbohydrates are inessential is a public disservice. Rather, help people make better food choices by providing information.

    My advice, irregardless to your preference on animal products, eat the rainbow (of fruits, vegetables, & legumes) in abundance and enjoy grains, seeds, and nuts as needed.


    Haha this stuff makes me lol. How can people survive on keto then? Yes carbs may be important for energy and glucose levels, but we can also create glucose via proteins and our bodies can run off of ketones/ fat. Most people carbs on keto come from fiber and micro dense greens which provide very little energy. You are claiming that with HCLF you have to supplement certain micros......right there is where I'd draw the line on a diet considering you HAVE to supplement the diet cause it doesn't give you all the nutrition you need...

    I assume you're talking about vitamin B12. Animals get B12 from the dirt when they're eating. So what do you think happens with cows, pigs, chickens that are locked up in factory farms? Where do they get their B12 from? They are supplemented with it. I read a stat that said the factory farmed animals get 90% of the B12 that's distributed in the U.S. So, meat eaters are supplementing too. Plant-based eaters / vegans who supplement just cut out the middle man, er animal.

    I'm on that trader joes free range life lol.

    But really, this is getting too far. My main objective was to state that fat is essential to life, while carbs are not, to justify the fact that a HCLF diet can be harmful to your overall health due to restriction of a necessary macronutrient.

  • anybodys_fruit
    anybodys_fruit Posts: 17 Member
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    One of the best decisions of my life!! I am leaner than I was when I had an ED and fitter than I was playing multiple sports in High School!!! Not to mention that I have more energy as a new mom than I did when I was 'clean eating' with lean meat and eggs and lowfat dairy pre-baby!! After eating this way for a good bit of time and after I had my baby I no longer had to take thyroid medication. So amazed at the healing and vibrancy this lifestyle brings!! DM me if you have any questions.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
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    pinggolfer96 wrote: »
    cld111 wrote: »
    pinggolfer96 wrote: »
    B_TEEN wrote: »
    pinggolfer96 wrote: »
    ...but when it comes to the facts.....fat and protein are ESSENTIAL to life.

    I love these opportunities to understand the perspective of others and fine tune my understanding of a subject.

    So what makes a nutrient essential?
    An essential nutrient is a nutrient required for normal human body function that either cannot be synthesized by the body at all, or cannot be synthesized in amounts adequate for good health (e.g., niacin, choline), and thus must be obtained from a dietary source. Source: 1, 2 and 3
    For those that follow a HCLF or some variation of whole-foods, plant-based diet (and eats sufficient calories) will receive sufficient macronutrients and micronutrients from vegetables, fruits, legumes, seeds and nuts but may be required to supplement vitamins B12 and D. As animal consumption is eliminated and plant-oils either limited or eliminated, a HCLF/WFPB dieter's macronutrient composition will be approximately C:70-90%, F:5-15%, P:5-15%.

    pinggolfer96 wrote: »
    ...but when it comes to the facts.....fat and protein are ESSENTIAL to life. Carbs are only there to help perform at optimum levels. Nothing against carbs (I love them) but you don't need them to survive.
    Why would your body need carbohydrates to survive (i.e. how are carbohydrates used)?
    • Carbohydrates are the body’s main source of fuel. Per NIH*, they are the most important source of energy for your body.
    • All of the tissues and cells in our body can use glucose for energy.
    • Carbohydrates are needed for the central nervous system, the kidneys, the brain (uses primarily glucose as its energy source), the muscles (including the heart) to function properly.
    • Carbohydrates are important in intestinal health and waste elimination. (Thank you FIBER!!)
    Source: 1, 2, *3

    Yes, carbohydrates are essential and can be found in the healthiest form available - whole, plant foods. The healing powers and benefits of whole, plant-based foods have been destroyed by food manufacturers. This empire created big business by refining plant foods, stripping away their benefits, to create nutritionally poor, unhealthy manufactured goods. The composition of these so called commodity goods are largely refined sugar, wheat, rice and corn. The narrative of refined goods are bad have been unfairly publicized as all carbs are bad and/or unnecessary to function.

    To suggest (unrefined) carbohydrates are inessential is a public disservice. Rather, help people make better food choices by providing information.

    My advice, irregardless to your preference on animal products, eat the rainbow (of fruits, vegetables, & legumes) in abundance and enjoy grains, seeds, and nuts as needed.


    Haha this stuff makes me lol. How can people survive on keto then? Yes carbs may be important for energy and glucose levels, but we can also create glucose via proteins and our bodies can run off of ketones/ fat. Most people carbs on keto come from fiber and micro dense greens which provide very little energy. You are claiming that with HCLF you have to supplement certain micros......right there is where I'd draw the line on a diet considering you HAVE to supplement the diet cause it doesn't give you all the nutrition you need...

    I assume you're talking about vitamin B12. Animals get B12 from the dirt when they're eating. So what do you think happens with cows, pigs, chickens that are locked up in factory farms? Where do they get their B12 from? They are supplemented with it. I read a stat that said the factory farmed animals get 90% of the B12 that's distributed in the U.S. So, meat eaters are supplementing too. Plant-based eaters / vegans who supplement just cut out the middle man, er animal.

    I'm on that trader joes free range life lol.

    But really, this is getting too far. My main objective was to state that fat is essential to life, while carbs are not, to justify the fact that a HCLF diet can be harmful to your overall health due to restriction of a necessary macronutrient.

    "Free range" is a term that doesn't really mean what many consumers think that it does. "Free range" animals often never see the outside world, they certainly aren't rooting around in the dirt and getting the vitamins that they would be receiving outside of confinement. "Free range" just means that there is some access to the outside (which can be a tiny, tiny window in a huge chicken pen), not that animals are regularly allowed outside. Many people think that "free range" means that an animal is "yarded" or "pastured." This isn't the case.

    http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/confinement_farm/facts/guide_egg_labels.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/

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