Protein/Calories for muscle gains?

rdtalon
rdtalon Posts: 42 Member
edited November 22 in Food and Nutrition
So I am about to start doing some lifting, and I saw someone say that its difficult to gain muscle when you have a calorie deficit. I'm 6 ft, 289 pounds. My maintenance is 2800, and my calorie goal everyday is 1800.

My question is then, can I get some hypertrophy action when I only eat 1800? Would having alot of protein in the 1800 calories influence that?

Replies

  • IsaackGMOON
    IsaackGMOON Posts: 3,358 Member
    Generally speaking, gaining muscle requires a caloric surplus. However, there are some circumstances which can affect muscle growth in a caloric deficit;
    • Age
    • Gender (males have more testosterone)
    • Whether you're new to lifting
    • Nutrition (correct macros)
    • Caloric deficit

    As far as I know, people who are overweight (I think around 30% BF+) have a higher potential to build muscle - I'm not entirely sure. However, you have a caloric deficit of 1000. That's quite significant...

    To be honest, I would bother with hypertrophy rep ranges in a caloric deficit... focus on 5x5's for strength. These programs are all really good;
    • New Rules of Lifting For Women
    • Strong Curves
    • ICF 5x5
    • Stronglifts 5x5

    Macro frameworks;
    • 0.6-0.8g of protein per lb of body mass
    • 0.4-0.45g of fat per lb of body mass
    • fill rest of calories with carbs
  • mantium999
    mantium999 Posts: 1,490 Member
    You are not likely to see any appreciable hypertrophy eating at a 1000 calorie deficit. In fact, you are far more likely to lose mucsle mass along with body fat. Your best bet is to establish sound goals, and learn to accept the negatives that go along with those goals. Generally speaking, if you are actively working toward losing fat, you will also lose muscle, but you can proactively reduce the amount of lost muscle through a reasonable deficit/weight training/adequate protein (1000 calorie deficit is probably too much). On the other side, when actively working on gaining actual muscle mass you generally need a calorie surplus to build that muscle, but that same surplus will also add fat.
  • Ironmaiden4life
    Ironmaiden4life Posts: 422 Member
    Can you gain muscle on a deficit... yes. Will you see the same gains on a deficit as you would on a bulk....no. Will it be an incredibly slow process on a deficit..... yes, and yes some of what you lose will be muscle not just fat.

    I would close up the deficit a little as it's way too big for your goals and up the protein to at least 1g per lb of body weight to give you some extra insurance (no you will not die, go bankrupt, nor will the earth stop spinning on it's axis as you're going over the recommended 0.6 - 0.8g)

    As you are new to lifting you'll see some great gains with the right diet and training program for the first 6 weeks so take advantage of that window because trust me you will never see the same gains again.

    IsaackGMOON gave you some great suggestions for solid programs. Choose one, get your diet squared away and lift heavy with good form.

  • rdtalon
    rdtalon Posts: 42 Member
    Thank you all for your responses!

    The weight loss is my first priority right now. I was told that increased muscle mass can help with the extra skin once I start losing alot of weight, and that added muscle can also help with weight loss itself. It sounds like maybe I should hold off until I can stand to go into maintance or even surplus calories. Extra strength would be nice, but is not really my focus.

    Although...I have heard about people doing periods of muscle gain and then "cutting." Would this be more effective for weightloss then straight dieting with a bit of cardio (mostly walking, some swimming)?

    As for my current calorie deficit, it should make me lose about 2 pounds per week, which I thought was about the fastest you can lose safely. I have been on diet for about a month now and have lost 12 pounds, which is slightly higher than 2 pounds per week, but not crazy. I don't really have terrible cravings or anything...Do you guys think it is unsustainable?
  • IsaackGMOON
    IsaackGMOON Posts: 3,358 Member
    edited August 2015
    rdtalon wrote: »
    Thank you all for your responses!

    The weight loss is my first priority right now. 1 I was told that increased muscle mass can help with the extra skin once I start losing alot of weight,2 and that added muscle can also help with weight loss itself. It sounds like maybe I should hold off until I can stand to go into maintance or even surplus calories. 3 Extra strength would be nice, but is not really my focus.

    Although...I have heard about people doing periods of muscle gain and then "cutting." Would this be more effective for weightloss then straight dieting with a bit of cardio (mostly walking, some swimming)?

    4 As for my current calorie deficit, it should make me lose about 2 pounds per week, which I thought was about the fastest you can lose safely. I have been on diet for about a month now and have lost 12 pounds, which is slightly higher than 2 pounds per week, but not crazy. I don't really have terrible cravings or anything...Do you guys think it is unsustainable?

    I'll clean up a few things for you... mainly the highlighted/bold parts.
    1. Gaining muscle can help with the extra skin - but so can creating a moderate caloric deficit, as your skins elasticity has to adapt to your decrease in size etc. Genetics mainly comes into play for your skins elasticity, but gaining muscle after weight loss can help.
    2. It is true that more muscle means you burn more calories... however, the amount of muscle needed to burn a significant amount of calories is pretty big. I believe that 1lb of muscle burns 6 calories ~ or something similar. It'd have to be a lot of muscle...
    3. Strength can definitely be gained while in a caloric deficit if you follow the programs I listed above on my previous post.
    4. Generally, a loss of 2lb's per week is the safest amount you can lose. However, this is contradicted by people who are severely over weight and choose to reduce their calories by a large amount (instead of a 500 calorie deficit, for example). Regarding your deficit - it will hinder your ability to gain strength to a certain extent and could make loose skin worse. It will be sustainable for a small amount of time (having a brain fart atm) - weight loss is always the fastest at the start and then gradually slows... so at about 180lb or so, 1lb or 0.5lb loss per week will be more sustainable.
  • rdtalon
    rdtalon Posts: 42 Member
    Okay, that makes sense. My BMI is 39.2, so I do have a significant amount of weight to lose (I am aiming for around 190-200 lbs, so I need to lose about 88 pounds). I already figured that my weight loss would slow down after a certain point (mfp doesnt let you have a calorie goal lower than 1200, at the very least).

    I think I'll give it another month at my current rate, but perhaps slow it down after that to about 1 pound per week. I dont want my hair to start falling out or anything (saw someone post that they starting losing their hair when they were doing 1200 calories lol). Perhaps I will also start researching how to help avoid losing muscle while on a deficit.
  • IsaackGMOON
    IsaackGMOON Posts: 3,358 Member
    rdtalon wrote: »
    Okay, that makes sense. My BMI is 39.2, so I do have a significant amount of weight to lose (I am aiming for around 190-200 lbs, so I need to lose about 88 pounds). I already figured that my weight loss would slow down after a certain point (mfp doesnt let you have a calorie goal lower than 1200, at the very least).

    I think I'll give it another month at my current rate, but perhaps slow it down after that to about 1 pound per week. I dont want my hair to start falling out or anything (saw someone post that they starting losing their hair when they were doing 1200 calories lol). Perhaps I will also start researching how to help avoid losing muscle while on a deficit.

    Minimum RDA net calories for a male is 1500... someone of your size shouldn't be anything near :)
  • rdtalon
    rdtalon Posts: 42 Member
    edited August 2015
    Just read an article (journal of obesity) that says 30% of your bmr should be your maximum deficit. I went on my profile and upped my calorie goal from 1800 to 2000. Still pretty aggressive, but hopefully a little better.

    Lol, I thought I was being moderate at 2 pounds per week.
  • datsundriver87
    datsundriver87 Posts: 186 Member
    I was right around your bmi at the beginning of this year I was 280 and 5'9. Lost 72 pounds so far not touching weights at all and I'll admit the scale numbers arevawesomebbut but I lost a ridiculous amount of muscle. Decided this week to change my routine up and start taking protein and building back my muscle knowing it will more than likely be at a cost of scale numbers. I would suggest sticking to one main goal at a time. When I first started dropping weight I was dropping 5+ pounds a week (mostly during the first month of water weight), but even after that 2+ pounds a week has been fairly consistent up until the last month or so.
  • rdtalon
    rdtalon Posts: 42 Member
    datsundriver87 wrote: »
    I was right around your bmi at the beginning of this year I was 280 and 5'9. Lost 72 pounds so far not touching weights at all and I'll admit the scale numbers arevawesomebbut but I lost a ridiculous amount of muscle. Decided this week to change my routine up and start taking protein and building back my muscle knowing it will more than likely be at a cost of scale numbers. I would suggest sticking to one main goal at a time. When I first started dropping weight I was dropping 5+ pounds a week (mostly during the first month of water weight), but even after that 2+ pounds a week has been fairly consistent up until the last month or so.

    Good to know someone in a similar situation made it!

    What kind of calorie deficits have you been using? (A thousand calorie deficit is what was originally suggested by mfp for me, but like I said a couple posts up, I was thinking about doing an 800 calorie deficit instead)

    Also, when did you lower or increase your calorie deficit?
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