Squats--Quantity vs. weights?
tamiandtoto
Posts: 18 Member
So I've been wondering what is better when doing squats--doing as many as I can or doing less and adding a heavier weight? I usually to a combination of basic, sumo, lunges, etc. and use 10-15lb. kettle bells.
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Replies
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the best would be to do both, one week heavy next week high rep0
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I started out doing as many as I could, then started adding weight. I don't do them nearly as often as I should, and it's one of the easiest things in the world to do!0
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If you don't find ways to make them more difficult, the only way to improve is to do more. At some point, it will become endurance training. If you w a nt to improve your strength, I'd try variations that make them more difficult or increase the weight.0
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That would depend entirely on what your goal is. Endurance or strength.0
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Mycophilia wrote: »That would depend entirely on what your goal is. Endurance or strength.
+1
If it's for endurance... you could go with light weights or no weights.
If you're doing it for strength and muscle mass*, then you should have a progressive overload in weight.
*muscle mass would require correct macros and a caloric surplus
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IsaackGMOON wrote: »Mycophilia wrote: »That would depend entirely on what your goal is. Endurance or strength.
+1
If it's for endurance... you could go with light weights or no weights.
If you're doing it for strength and muscle mass*, then you should have a progressive overload in weight.
*muscle mass would require correct macros and a caloric surplus
I don't want to necessarily build up muscle mass, but I would like to tone and shape things up.0 -
my knee doctor told me that low weight high reps is better for your knees, but i didn't listen and i do high weight low reps because its more fun.0
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I do mine with a 30kg bar and I do 3 sets of 6 reps0
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tamiandtoto wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »Mycophilia wrote: »That would depend entirely on what your goal is. Endurance or strength.
+1
If it's for endurance... you could go with light weights or no weights.
If you're doing it for strength and muscle mass*, then you should have a progressive overload in weight.
*muscle mass would require correct macros and a caloric surplus
I don't want to necessarily build up muscle mass, but I would like to tone and shape things up.
I can squat 150lbs, and I am a size 2....just sayin
Been lifting heavy for 8 months, 5'0" woman. It also gets you in and out of the gym faster than doing, like, 5 sets of 20 reps.0 -
Both. Make one day heavy, the other more volume @ lower weight0
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Both have their benefits, but your goals may mean one is better suited to you than another.
Just for clarity... when you say "as many as you can", how many are we talking?0 -
I agree with some of the above. If you want to look more shapely and retain the muscle you have while getting rid of the fat over top, eat at a moderate deficit and start lifting heavier.0
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The prevailing wisdom on rep ranges is as follows:
1-5: Strength
6-12: Hypertrophy
12+ : Muscle endurance
Which to use?“The continuum in figure 2.2 ranges in maximal repetitions from 1 to 25, as does the original, but adds the adaptation of muscle hypertrophy. On the lower end of the continuum, strength gains are more pronounced, particularly when using maximal repetitions in the range of 1 to 6, or about 80 to 100 percent of 1RM (O’Shea 1966; Weiss, Coney, and Clark 1999). Enhanced muscle hypertrophy is most notable when training with repetition maximums in the 8 to 12 range, which corresponds to about 70 to 80 percent 1RM (Kraemer, Fleck, and Evans 1996). And muscular endurance benefits occur when repetition maximums of 12 and above, or 70 percent of 1RM and below, are used (Stone and Coulter 1994). New evidence also suggests that these higher rep ranges are also effective for muscle hypertrophy as long as sets are taken to muscle failure (Burd 2010; Burd 2011; Mitchell 2012). These varied muscle adaptations underscore the importance of periodization for producing the most desirable changes in a muscle, whether the person’s goal is increasing muscle endurance or increasing maximal strength. This is because each adaptation is related to the others. “For example, increasing both maximal strength and muscle endurance beneficially affects muscle hypertrophy. So while the person should spend the majority of training time using the repetition range that best fits his or her major goals, the periodic cycling of other intensities will enhance this goal.”
Excerpt From: Jim Stoppani. “Jim Stoppani's Encyclopedia of Muscle & Strength, 2E.” iBooks. https://itun.es/us/WboF3.l "
In my training I employ each strategy, since I want both strength and hypertrophy gains. I will squat at lower reps to build strength (5/3/1 currently) and then as an assessory, front squat (or barbell split squat) at lower percentage of my max for higher reps to encourage muscle (4x8 or 5x10) growth. Then I will add a finisher (keeping with quads) like dumbbell goblet squats (or box step-ups or box jumps), and hit the 12+ range for a few sets.
I'm pretty gassed after that.0 -
nakedraygun wrote: »The prevailing wisdom on rep ranges is as follows:
1-5: Strength
6-12: Hypertrophy
12+ : Muscle endurance
Which to use?“The continuum in figure 2.2 ranges in maximal repetitions from 1 to 25, as does the original, but adds the adaptation of muscle hypertrophy. On the lower end of the continuum, strength gains are more pronounced, particularly when using maximal repetitions in the range of 1 to 6, or about 80 to 100 percent of 1RM (O’Shea 1966; Weiss, Coney, and Clark 1999). Enhanced muscle hypertrophy is most notable when training with repetition maximums in the 8 to 12 range, which corresponds to about 70 to 80 percent 1RM (Kraemer, Fleck, and Evans 1996). And muscular endurance benefits occur when repetition maximums of 12 and above, or 70 percent of 1RM and below, are used (Stone and Coulter 1994). New evidence also suggests that these higher rep ranges are also effective for muscle hypertrophy as long as sets are taken to muscle failure (Burd 2010; Burd 2011; Mitchell 2012). These varied muscle adaptations underscore the importance of periodization for producing the most desirable changes in a muscle, whether the person’s goal is increasing muscle endurance or increasing maximal strength. This is because each adaptation is related to the others. “For example, increasing both maximal strength and muscle endurance beneficially affects muscle hypertrophy. So while the person should spend the majority of training time using the repetition range that best fits his or her major goals, the periodic cycling of other intensities will enhance this goal.”
Excerpt From: Jim Stoppani. “Jim Stoppani's Encyclopedia of Muscle & Strength, 2E.” iBooks. https://itun.es/us/WboF3.l "
In my training I employ each strategy, since I want both strength and hypertrophy gains. I will squat at lower reps to build strength (5/3/1 currently) and then as an assessory, front squat (or barbell split squat) at lower percentage of my max for higher reps to encourage muscle (4x8 or 5x10) growth. Then I will add a finisher (keeping with quads) like dumbbell goblet squats (or box step-ups or box jumps), and hit the 12+ range for a few sets.
I'm pretty gassed after that.
What he said^^^^0 -
I would say unless you're training for a specific event ( bodybuilding/fitness comp or strength show) why not incorporate all sorts of rep ranges? For example, the current routine I am doing with squats involves a 5x5 scheme where I go heavy as I can and trying To increase weight every week. Once I complete my 5 sets, I usually do a burnout set with lighter weight where I try and go for as many reps possible. To each their own, best of luck!0
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nakedraygun wrote: »The prevailing wisdom on rep ranges is as follows:
1-5: Strength
6-12: Hypertrophy
12+ : Muscle endurance
Which to use?“The continuum in figure 2.2 ranges in maximal repetitions from 1 to 25, as does the original, but adds the adaptation of muscle hypertrophy. On the lower end of the continuum, strength gains are more pronounced, particularly when using maximal repetitions in the range of 1 to 6, or about 80 to 100 percent of 1RM (O’Shea 1966; Weiss, Coney, and Clark 1999). Enhanced muscle hypertrophy is most notable when training with repetition maximums in the 8 to 12 range, which corresponds to about 70 to 80 percent 1RM (Kraemer, Fleck, and Evans 1996). And muscular endurance benefits occur when repetition maximums of 12 and above, or 70 percent of 1RM and below, are used (Stone and Coulter 1994). New evidence also suggests that these higher rep ranges are also effective for muscle hypertrophy as long as sets are taken to muscle failure (Burd 2010; Burd 2011; Mitchell 2012). These varied muscle adaptations underscore the importance of periodization for producing the most desirable changes in a muscle, whether the person’s goal is increasing muscle endurance or increasing maximal strength. This is because each adaptation is related to the others. “For example, increasing both maximal strength and muscle endurance beneficially affects muscle hypertrophy. So while the person should spend the majority of training time using the repetition range that best fits his or her major goals, the periodic cycling of other intensities will enhance this goal.”
Excerpt From: Jim Stoppani. “Jim Stoppani's Encyclopedia of Muscle & Strength, 2E.” iBooks. https://itun.es/us/WboF3.l "
In my training I employ each strategy, since I want both strength and hypertrophy gains. I will squat at lower reps to build strength (5/3/1 currently) and then as an assessory, front squat (or barbell split squat) at lower percentage of my max for higher reps to encourage muscle (4x8 or 5x10) growth. Then I will add a finisher (keeping with quads) like dumbbell goblet squats (or box step-ups or box jumps), and hit the 12+ range for a few sets.
I'm pretty gassed after that.
Hopefully this doesn't derail the thread too much, but does your intake impact any of that? i.e. do you keep the hypertrophy work (volume) while you are cutting, assuming you cut? I've often wondered if there was any meaningful benefit to doing growth volume while eating at cut intake levels.0 -
tamiandtoto wrote: »So I've been wondering what is better when doing squats--doing as many as I can or doing less and adding a heavier weight? I usually to a combination of basic, sumo, lunges, etc. and use 10-15lb. kettle bells.
better for what?
doing less reps with heavier weight is how you build strength
doing more reps with little or no weight is better for muscular endurance and stamina...
goals are kind of important...better is relative.0 -
tamiandtoto wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »Mycophilia wrote: »That would depend entirely on what your goal is. Endurance or strength.
+1
If it's for endurance... you could go with light weights or no weights.
If you're doing it for strength and muscle mass*, then you should have a progressive overload in weight.
*muscle mass would require correct macros and a caloric surplus
I don't want to necessarily build up muscle mass, but I would like to tone and shape things up.
Oh no, you just said "tone"0 -
I don't think the OP is coming back, so at this point, who cares?nakedraygun wrote: »The prevailing wisdom on rep ranges is as follows:
1-5: Strength
6-12: Hypertrophy
12+ : Muscle endurance
Which to use?“The continuum in figure 2.2 ranges in maximal repetitions from 1 to 25, as does the original, but adds the adaptation of muscle hypertrophy. On the lower end of the continuum, strength gains are more pronounced, particularly when using maximal repetitions in the range of 1 to 6, or about 80 to 100 percent of 1RM (O’Shea 1966; Weiss, Coney, and Clark 1999). Enhanced muscle hypertrophy is most notable when training with repetition maximums in the 8 to 12 range, which corresponds to about 70 to 80 percent 1RM (Kraemer, Fleck, and Evans 1996). And muscular endurance benefits occur when repetition maximums of 12 and above, or 70 percent of 1RM and below, are used (Stone and Coulter 1994). New evidence also suggests that these higher rep ranges are also effective for muscle hypertrophy as long as sets are taken to muscle failure (Burd 2010; Burd 2011; Mitchell 2012). These varied muscle adaptations underscore the importance of periodization for producing the most desirable changes in a muscle, whether the person’s goal is increasing muscle endurance or increasing maximal strength. This is because each adaptation is related to the others. “For example, increasing both maximal strength and muscle endurance beneficially affects muscle hypertrophy. So while the person should spend the majority of training time using the repetition range that best fits his or her major goals, the periodic cycling of other intensities will enhance this goal.”
Excerpt From: Jim Stoppani. “Jim Stoppani's Encyclopedia of Muscle & Strength, 2E.” iBooks. https://itun.es/us/WboF3.l "
In my training I employ each strategy, since I want both strength and hypertrophy gains. I will squat at lower reps to build strength (5/3/1 currently) and then as an assessory, front squat (or barbell split squat) at lower percentage of my max for higher reps to encourage muscle (4x8 or 5x10) growth. Then I will add a finisher (keeping with quads) like dumbbell goblet squats (or box step-ups or box jumps), and hit the 12+ range for a few sets.
I'm pretty gassed after that.
Hopefully this doesn't derail the thread too much, but does your intake impact any of that? i.e. do you keep the hypertrophy work (volume) while you are cutting, assuming you cut? I've often wondered if there was any meaningful benefit to doing growth volume while eating at cut intake levels.
Does my (calorie) intake impact my exercise volume/strength? Heck yes.
Running a program like that at higher 1RM percentages takes a lot out of you -- and you need a robust food ramp to stay in the game.
But it can cut both ways. Lift like that while cutting and you burn-up calories (just lower the percents). Lift like that while bulking and hope for the best possible muscle growth.0 -
yes- it matters quiet a bit.nakedraygun wrote: »The prevailing wisdom on rep ranges is as follows:
1-5: Strength
6-12: Hypertrophy
12+ : Muscle endurance
Which to use?“The continuum in figure 2.2 ranges in maximal repetitions from 1 to 25, as does the original, but adds the adaptation of muscle hypertrophy. On the lower end of the continuum, strength gains are more pronounced, particularly when using maximal repetitions in the range of 1 to 6, or about 80 to 100 percent of 1RM (O’Shea 1966; Weiss, Coney, and Clark 1999). Enhanced muscle hypertrophy is most notable when training with repetition maximums in the 8 to 12 range, which corresponds to about 70 to 80 percent 1RM (Kraemer, Fleck, and Evans 1996). And muscular endurance benefits occur when repetition maximums of 12 and above, or 70 percent of 1RM and below, are used (Stone and Coulter 1994). New evidence also suggests that these higher rep ranges are also effective for muscle hypertrophy as long as sets are taken to muscle failure (Burd 2010; Burd 2011; Mitchell 2012). These varied muscle adaptations underscore the importance of periodization for producing the most desirable changes in a muscle, whether the person’s goal is increasing muscle endurance or increasing maximal strength. This is because each adaptation is related to the others. “For example, increasing both maximal strength and muscle endurance beneficially affects muscle hypertrophy. So while the person should spend the majority of training time using the repetition range that best fits his or her major goals, the periodic cycling of other intensities will enhance this goal.”
Excerpt From: Jim Stoppani. “Jim Stoppani's Encyclopedia of Muscle & Strength, 2E.” iBooks. https://itun.es/us/WboF3.l "
In my training I employ each strategy, since I want both strength and hypertrophy gains. I will squat at lower reps to build strength (5/3/1 currently) and then as an assessory, front squat (or barbell split squat) at lower percentage of my max for higher reps to encourage muscle (4x8 or 5x10) growth. Then I will add a finisher (keeping with quads) like dumbbell goblet squats (or box step-ups or box jumps), and hit the 12+ range for a few sets.
I'm pretty gassed after that.
Hopefully this doesn't derail the thread too much, but does your intake impact any of that? i.e. do you keep the hypertrophy work (volume) while you are cutting, assuming you cut? I've often wondered if there was any meaningful benefit to doing growth volume while eating at cut intake levels.
The lay out of those is mostly a loose guideline- its' an easy way to see a very very basic lay out of what could be happening- or a path to get you where you want.
When I write this out I caveat it with "as your diet dictates" or something in such phrasing.0 -
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nakedraygun wrote: »The prevailing wisdom on rep ranges is as follows:
1-5: Strength
6-12: Hypertrophy
12+ : Muscle endurance
Which to use?“The continuum in figure 2.2 ranges in maximal repetitions from 1 to 25, as does the original, but adds the adaptation of muscle hypertrophy. On the lower end of the continuum, strength gains are more pronounced, particularly when using maximal repetitions in the range of 1 to 6, or about 80 to 100 percent of 1RM (O’Shea 1966; Weiss, Coney, and Clark 1999). Enhanced muscle hypertrophy is most notable when training with repetition maximums in the 8 to 12 range, which corresponds to about 70 to 80 percent 1RM (Kraemer, Fleck, and Evans 1996). And muscular endurance benefits occur when repetition maximums of 12 and above, or 70 percent of 1RM and below, are used (Stone and Coulter 1994). New evidence also suggests that these higher rep ranges are also effective for muscle hypertrophy as long as sets are taken to muscle failure (Burd 2010; Burd 2011; Mitchell 2012). These varied muscle adaptations underscore the importance of periodization for producing the most desirable changes in a muscle, whether the person’s goal is increasing muscle endurance or increasing maximal strength. This is because each adaptation is related to the others. “For example, increasing both maximal strength and muscle endurance beneficially affects muscle hypertrophy. So while the person should spend the majority of training time using the repetition range that best fits his or her major goals, the periodic cycling of other intensities will enhance this goal.”
Excerpt From: Jim Stoppani. “Jim Stoppani's Encyclopedia of Muscle & Strength, 2E.” iBooks. https://itun.es/us/WboF3.l "
In my training I employ each strategy, since I want both strength and hypertrophy gains. I will squat at lower reps to build strength (5/3/1 currently) and then as an assessory, front squat (or barbell split squat) at lower percentage of my max for higher reps to encourage muscle (4x8 or 5x10) growth. Then I will add a finisher (keeping with quads) like dumbbell goblet squats (or box step-ups or box jumps), and hit the 12+ range for a few sets.
I'm pretty gassed after that.
Hopefully this doesn't derail the thread too much, but does your intake impact any of that? i.e. do you keep the hypertrophy work (volume) while you are cutting, assuming you cut? I've often wondered if there was any meaningful benefit to doing growth volume while eating at cut intake levels.
Energy intake will impact training potential sure. Generally, less energy means you'll need to reduce volume. Higher reps isn't necessarily indicative of higher volume, though it may be easier to accumulate volume with higher reps as it is less draining and will take less time to complete... You can run a higher volume approach with lower reps, it's just very taxing on your CNS... ex:
10x3 @ 87% 1RM = 30 reps
vs
3x10 @ 70% 1RM = 30 reps.
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Maybe I didn't phrase my question properly.
If you're cutting, and thus eating in a deficit... is there meaningful value to doing higher volume hypertrophy work versus lower volume strength work?0 -
Maybe I didn't phrase my question properly.
If you're cutting, and thus eating in a deficit... is there meaningful value to doing higher volume hypertrophy work versus lower volume strength work?
It's a loaded question with so many different answers that are entirely circumstantial. It really depends on the context... Training age of individual, body composition,specific goals or sport specificity, weaknesses & imbalances, how deep into the cut, etc..0 -
Maybe I didn't phrase my question properly.
If you're cutting, and thus eating in a deficit... is there meaningful value to doing higher volume hypertrophy work versus lower volume strength work?
Weellllllllllll lots of things- but I know doing lower rep strength oriented stuff at some point on a deficit is going to give you diminishing returns. At some point you'll just be lifting to lift and get stuck. so then you're lifts suffer because you're only doing a handful of reps and not growing.
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Maybe I didn't phrase my question properly.
If you're cutting, and thus eating in a deficit... is there meaningful value to doing higher volume hypertrophy work versus lower volume strength work?
Hey jackson. One question I would have for you is why would you want to do hypertrophy work period? You do some competitive racing right? To me it seems like you'd want to work on maximal strength, power, and strength endurance; adding weight via hypetrophy doesn't seem ideal. Or are you asking hypothetically?0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Maybe I didn't phrase my question properly.
If you're cutting, and thus eating in a deficit... is there meaningful value to doing higher volume hypertrophy work versus lower volume strength work?
It's a loaded question with so many different answers that are entirely circumstantial. It really depends on the context... Training age of individual, body composition,specific goals or sport specificity, weaknesses & imbalances, how deep into the cut, etc..
Gotcha, thanks.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Maybe I didn't phrase my question properly.
If you're cutting, and thus eating in a deficit... is there meaningful value to doing higher volume hypertrophy work versus lower volume strength work?
Hey jackson. One question I would have for you is why would you want to do hypertrophy work period? You do some competitive racing right? To me it seems like you'd want to work on maximal strength, power, and strength endurance; adding weight via hypetrophy doesn't seem ideal. Or are you asking hypothetically?
A little of both. Yes, I do some competitive racing, so strength/endurance-to-weight ratio is my biggest goal. But like most of us, vanity is a factor too.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Maybe I didn't phrase my question properly.
If you're cutting, and thus eating in a deficit... is there meaningful value to doing higher volume hypertrophy work versus lower volume strength work?
Hey jackson. One question I would have for you is why would you want to do hypertrophy work period? You do some competitive racing right? To me it seems like you'd want to work on maximal strength, power, and strength endurance; adding weight via hypetrophy doesn't seem ideal. Or are you asking hypothetically?
A little of both. Yes, I do some competitive racing, so strength/endurance-to-weight ratio is my biggest goal. But like most of us, vanity is a factor too.
The best bet for a competitor like yourself might be, if you have an off-season that is, to work on hypertrophy and maximal strength development with the appropriate nutrition. Then perhaps 12 to 16 weeks out from the start of the season switch gears and nutrition to cut.
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