Low Carb Vegetarians... any luck?
Replies
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@RodaRose "If you want to be vegetarian, eat beans, chic peas, lentils, tofu, nuts seeds". Yes, those would be higher protein sources for a vegetarian. Problem is, they also come loaded with carbs. It's the way most vegetable sources of protein work.
@jessica_sodenkamp "One things that a most people overlook is how the high (and even moderate) consumption of fats in the diet keeps blood sugar high by coating the cells and not allowing glucose to exit efficiently."
Not even close. Fats are not absorbed by the body that way and they don't coat cells.0 -
As someone who has done it, I'd say low carb as a lacto-ovo vegetarian is entirely doable. If you are aiming for keto, I'd recommend seitan, faux "meats" eggs and whey protein, but if it's more like sub-100 net, tofu, tempeh and beans will work as well (vegetarian keto with only whole foods is tough). I ate pretty much unlimited protein and green veggies, a decent amount of non-green and non-starchy veggies, and one serving of fruit per day, usually grapefruit or berries for the low net carbs. If I needed extra calories, I usually got them through nuts and seeds, or buttered my veggies. I didn't eat bread, rice, oats, etc, but I occasionally had quinoa or spaghetti squash. I tried some low carb pitas and tortillas but they weren't for me; other people like them though.
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I don't really understand how the low-carbers get all their nutrients...or even if they do. There is a group for it, though.
You don't have to be a nutrients on expert to lose weight. I've lost a lot and know very little about nutrition. You don't need to know much to be a vegetarian,either, but if you want to be a healthy vegetarian, you should put some time into learning about proteins. If you're limiting dairy and/or eggs, really spend an hour learning about it. The easiest way is to visit a dietitian, but almost any library and even many websites can help you out there.
I don't know that they do. That said, I wouldn't think their nutrition would be any worse than the standard SAD eater. The Western Diet pattern that most Americans, and many others consume, is woefully nutrient poor.
Thus simultaneous malnutrition and obesity rates.0 -
@RodaRose "If you want to be vegetarian, eat beans, chic peas, lentils, tofu, nuts seeds". Yes, those would be higher protein sources for a vegetarian. Problem is, they also come loaded with carbs. It's the way most vegetable sources of protein work.
@jessica_sodenkamp "One things that a most people overlook is how the high (and even moderate) consumption of fats in the diet keeps blood sugar high by coating the cells and not allowing glucose to exit efficiently."
Not even close. Fats are not absorbed by the body that way and they don't coat cells.
Net carbs, net carbs, net carbs.... They also come loaded fiber. Seriously OP go check out the reddit group I suggested you'll actually find helpful advice.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »soulcake99 wrote: »So I thought I might try low carb, but I am a vegetarian and I'm not sure how this would work. I'm also not incredibly great at nutrition.
Please share your success if you have had any. Thanks!
Vegetables have carbs.
If you want to go low carb, eat steak, eggs, pork chops, setian.
If you want to be vegetarian, eat beans, chic peas, lentils, tofu, nuts seeds.
One could easily stay below 100 grams of carbs while eating plenty of vegetables.
This is true.
I think keto would be awfully challenging and likely not worth the bother, though.
Part of the issue is that other than eggs and to some extent tofu (which is pretty low carb) vegetarian sources of protein have carbs, so getting enough protein while holding carbs down would be somewhat challenging. The temptation would be to get calories from fats that (mostly, nuts and seeds have some protein and avocado has micronutrients) tend to lack the benefits of legumes as a source of calories.
You'd want to be reasonably educated about nutrition to try to do low carb vegetarianism, I think, although you could certainly start by lowering carbs if you wanted to.0 -
eco atkins comes to mind0
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Hey, I'm not trashing carbs. It's just that vegetarian sources of protein also come with carbs. So trying to lower carbs on a vegetarian diet takes a fair amount of vigilance.0
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As a few people have mentioned it:
http://www.atkins.com/how-it-works/library/articles/the-eco-atkins-diet
Interesting. Vegan Eco Atkins at about 130 g carbs or 26% of calories (for the people in the example). I don't think of 130 g as especially low, but for a vegan it certainly is.
I imagine it would be easier to go lower as a vegetarian, of course.
From the link, this seems really weird, though:the researchers tested the "Eco-Atkins" diet against a standard low-fat lacto-vegetarian diet, which contained 58% of calories from carbs, 16% from protein and 25% from fat and was designed to have both low-saturated fat and low-cholesterol; most of the protein in the low-fat vegetarian diet came from low-fat or skim milk dairy products and liquid egg whites.
I would think that a low fat vegetarian diet would get more protein from legumes also, including soy.0 -
To adapt Atkins to your needs as a ovo-lacto vegetarian:
1.Start in Phase 2, Ongoing Weight Loss (OWL), at 30 grams of Net Carbs and introduce nuts and seeds and all unsweetened dairy products except milk (whether whole, skim, low fat, or no fat) and buttermilk before berries.
2.Or, if you have no more than 20 pounds to shed and are willing to swap slower weight loss for more food variety, you may start in Phase 3, Pre-Maintenance, at 50 grams of Net Carbs.
3.Make sure to get sufficient protein in eggs, cheese and soy products. Aim for no more than 6 grams of Net Carbs per serving of protein foods in OWL.0 -
Yes, that's nice if you have the metabolism to handle the insulin response. If you don't, and many people don't, it's another matter. Few people realize that insulin resistance now hits up to 50% of the population. So this is fit for how your metabolism works, at the moment. When I was on your diet, approximately, my blood pressure and triglycerides were through the roof and I gained a lot of weight in fat, much of it of the visceral kind and my cholesterol was frightening. We'll see how you do after 50.
Source for the bold?
OP, if you aren't great at nutrition, you should probably concentrate on that before trying to add additional restrictions.
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jdr/2015/362375/fig2/
from
Population-Based Studies on the Epidemiology of Insulin Resistance in Children, Utrecht, february 2015.
And please read it as it is written: "up to 50%". New Zealand is a case in point.
There are wide ethnic differences. Some ethnic groups are harder hit than others.
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I'm on the keto diet as a vegetarian and I'm not finding it too hard. Google or search on Pinterest for recipe ideas. There's a Reddit page for it and they're super helpful on there. Vegetables like broccoli, spinach, cucumbers, zucchini, and bell peppers are all low in net carbs so eat a lot of those to get important vitamins and minerals. Berries tend to be lower in carbs so I'll have a few every now and then if I'm craving sugar (these cravings diminish after a week or so).
You need to count net carbs (carbs-fiber) in order to track your goals. So if you want to eat 25g of carbs a day, that means 25g of net carbs. The thing with most vegetables is they have high fiber content so the net carbs are low.
You will end up eating a lot of cheese and eggs. I eat probably 6 eggs a day. I can't eat beans or quinoa because of the carbs but I've had no problem eating tons of protein. As an athlete, I'm eating about 2,000 calories a day and I've managed to stay under 25g of carbs but still meet my protein and fat goals.
The key is research. I know other posters have said it before but just do your research. Go to reputable websites and read books. Knowledge is king.
But to put it simply, eating low carb as a vegetarian is totally doable but only if you have the knowledge.0 -
Don't worry about all the naysayers Iodro. I've been a vegetarian (lacto/ovo with occasional seafood cus I'm an island girl) for about 8 years now and I have also found that I function better on a low-carb lifestyle. I've been off the wagon for a while now but I know that I feel better when I'm eating higher fat and protein foods. Low-carb also helps me moderate my love of wine
I started back this week and (admittedly, I've had a couple slip-ups because of eating out) I'm amazed at how much better I feel without carbs. If you aren't lacto/ovo/pesce, then tofu and seitan are delicious sources of protein. I can't find seitan where I'm from but I eat tofu and other veggie "meats" that I can get in the supermarket.
My favourite breakfast so far has been: 2 poached eggs with sauteed spinach on top of a grilled portobello mushroom with a slice of cheese. Add a slice of avocado to it and it's perfection.
I also made a Caesar salad the other night with a veggie sausage and some toasted seeds for crunch. I also sauteed some mushrooms and asparagus to go with it. It was really good! I almost didn't miss the croutons...
There are hundreds of recipes out there for vegetarians/vegans that are chock-full of protein. I think the key is focusing on whole, fresh ingredients and then supplementing with processed ingredients like veggie "meats" where necessary for protein. Good luck!0 -
rumrunner91 wrote: »Don't worry about all the naysayers Iodro. I've been a vegetarian (lacto/ovo with occasional seafood cus I'm an island girl) for about 8 years now and I have also found that I function better on a low-carb lifestyle. I've been off the wagon for a while now but I know that I feel better when I'm eating higher fat and protein foods. Low-carb also helps me moderate my love of wine
I started back this week and (admittedly, I've had a couple slip-ups because of eating out) I'm amazed at how much better I feel without carbs. If you aren't lacto/ovo/pesce, then tofu and seitan are delicious sources of protein. I can't find seitan where I'm from but I eat tofu and other veggie "meats" that I can get in the supermarket.
My favourite breakfast so far has been: 2 poached eggs with sauteed spinach on top of a grilled portobello mushroom with a slice of cheese. Add a slice of avocado to it and it's perfection.
I also made a Caesar salad the other night with a veggie sausage and some toasted seeds for crunch. I also sauteed some mushrooms and asparagus to go with it. It was really good! I almost didn't miss the croutons...
There are hundreds of recipes out there for vegetarians/vegans that are chock-full of protein. I think the key is focusing on whole, fresh ingredients and then supplementing with processed ingredients like veggie "meats" where necessary for protein. Good luck!
Seitan is super easy to make at home, especially if you find a baked rather than simmered recipe. It's also a fraction of the price of store-bought seitan. You'll find tons of recipes on Google or in any vegetarian forum. For vegetarian keto, seitan is great because it is a lot higher in protein than tofu or tempeh.0 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »rumrunner91 wrote: »Don't worry about all the naysayers Iodro. I've been a vegetarian (lacto/ovo with occasional seafood cus I'm an island girl) for about 8 years now and I have also found that I function better on a low-carb lifestyle. I've been off the wagon for a while now but I know that I feel better when I'm eating higher fat and protein foods. Low-carb also helps me moderate my love of wine
I started back this week and (admittedly, I've had a couple slip-ups because of eating out) I'm amazed at how much better I feel without carbs. If you aren't lacto/ovo/pesce, then tofu and seitan are delicious sources of protein. I can't find seitan where I'm from but I eat tofu and other veggie "meats" that I can get in the supermarket.
My favourite breakfast so far has been: 2 poached eggs with sauteed spinach on top of a grilled portobello mushroom with a slice of cheese. Add a slice of avocado to it and it's perfection.
I also made a Caesar salad the other night with a veggie sausage and some toasted seeds for crunch. I also sauteed some mushrooms and asparagus to go with it. It was really good! I almost didn't miss the croutons...
There are hundreds of recipes out there for vegetarians/vegans that are chock-full of protein. I think the key is focusing on whole, fresh ingredients and then supplementing with processed ingredients like veggie "meats" where necessary for protein. Good luck!
Seitan is super easy to make at home, especially if you find a baked rather than simmered recipe. It's also a fraction of the price of store-bought seitan. You'll find tons of recipes on Google or in any vegetarian forum. For vegetarian keto, seitan is great because it is a lot higher in protein than tofu or tempeh.
Ohh! Thank you! Never even thought about trying to make it myself! Thanks 0 -
jessica_sodenkamp wrote: »Yes, that's nice if you have the metabolism to handle the insulin response. If you don't, and many people don't, it's another matter. Few people realize that insulin resistance now hits up to 50% of the population. So this is fit for how your metabolism works, at the moment. When I was on your diet, approximately, my blood pressure and triglycerides were through the roof and I gained a lot of weight in fat, much of it of the visceral kind and my cholesterol was frightening. We'll see how you do after 50.
Going on 100 here!
One things that a most people overlook is how the high (and even moderate) consumption of fats in the diet keeps blood sugar high by coating the cells and not allowing glucose to exit efficiently. High fat + high carbs = nightmare for the body. But when you lower the fat (especially from animal sources)...carbs no longer become an issue. By lowering the fat in his diet my diabetic father-in-law has experienced improvements with his levels!
I tried this because I wanted it to work but for me it didn't. LCHF does work for me, personally. It may not work for you, but metabolism changes as we grow older and the amount of glucose you can handle also changes over time.
I stay under 20g carbohydrates a day. I never gave the impression that high carb-high fat should be viable. Interesting that you choose to read my response that way.
So....are there particular protein sources that help you stay under 20g carbs per day? Just curious, but this might actually also be on point. Yes, I could go look up the carbs in tofu and tempeh, but it sounds like you might know already. I take it you don't exclude dairy or eggs? But that would still be alot of yogurt and omelets.0 -
Tofu is pretty low carb, especially if you think of net carbs.0
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Yes, that's nice if you have the metabolism to handle the insulin response. If you don't, and many people don't, it's another matter. Few people realize that insulin resistance now hits up to 50% of the population. So this is fit for how your metabolism works, at the moment. When I was on your diet, approximately, my blood pressure and triglycerides were through the roof and I gained a lot of weight in fat, much of it of the visceral kind and my cholesterol was frightening. We'll see how you do after 50.
Don't blame insulin resistance on age.
I'm 53 years old today.
I'm vegetarian. I had cheesecake.
I moderate my carbs because I find they influence my energy levels. Too high and I'm fatigued, and the same for too low. I want to fuel my activity.
I do agree that a high carbing vegan coming into the thread was off topic, but so is you claiming that insulin resistance is an inevitability. It's easy enough to diet your way out of it. Most diabetics manage it just fine with carbohydrate intakes that are moderate, not low.
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Hey, I'm not trashing carbs. It's just that vegetarian sources of protein also come with carbs. So trying to lower carbs on a vegetarian diet takes a fair amount of vigilance.
Not all vegetarians eschew eggs and dairy. You're only considering plant sources of protein.
Cottage cheese and eggs are protein-packed powerhouses and have very few carbs.
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PeachyCarol wrote: »
Don't blame insulin resistance on age.
"Insulin resistance results from inherited and acquired influences. Hereditary causes include mutations of insulin receptor, glucose transporter, and signaling proteins, although the common forms are largely unidentified. Acquired causes include physical inactivity, diet, medications, hyperglycemia (glucose toxicity), increased free fatty acids, and the aging process" http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/122501-overview#a4
Fasting blood glucose rises with age too, in general.
However " the insulin resistance observed in aged persons can be modified by physical training and that the effect is sustained " http://www.educadorfisicoadinis.com.br/download/artigos/envelhecimento e resist a insulina.pdf0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »Hey, I'm not trashing carbs. It's just that vegetarian sources of protein also come with carbs. So trying to lower carbs on a vegetarian diet takes a fair amount of vigilance.
Not all vegetarians eschew eggs and dairy. You're only considering plant sources of protein.
Cottage cheese and eggs are protein-packed powerhouses and have very few carbs.
word.0 -
Protein powders are easy ways to boost your protein if that is a worry. I like to add coconut cream and protein powder to my coffee and then whisk it - yum.0
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PeachyCarol wrote: »Yes, that's nice if you have the metabolism to handle the insulin response. If you don't, and many people don't, it's another matter. Few people realize that insulin resistance now hits up to 50% of the population. So this is fit for how your metabolism works, at the moment. When I was on your diet, approximately, my blood pressure and triglycerides were through the roof and I gained a lot of weight in fat, much of it of the visceral kind and my cholesterol was frightening. We'll see how you do after 50.
Don't blame insulin resistance on age.
I'm 53 years old today.
I'm vegetarian. I had cheesecake.
I moderate my carbs because I find they influence my energy levels. Too high and I'm fatigued, and the same for too low. I want to fuel my activity.
I do agree that a high carbing vegan coming into the thread was off topic, but so is you claiming that insulin resistance is an inevitability. It's easy enough to diet your way out of it. Most diabetics manage it just fine with carbohydrate intakes that are moderate, not low.
Didn't claim it is inevitable. However, depending on the level of one's intake of carbohydrates over the years, it is something to be watchful of. And without tracking, it may even escape one's notice.
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sheermomentum wrote: »jessica_sodenkamp wrote: »Yes, that's nice if you have the metabolism to handle the insulin response. If you don't, and many people don't, it's another matter. Few people realize that insulin resistance now hits up to 50% of the population. So this is fit for how your metabolism works, at the moment. When I was on your diet, approximately, my blood pressure and triglycerides were through the roof and I gained a lot of weight in fat, much of it of the visceral kind and my cholesterol was frightening. We'll see how you do after 50.
Going on 100 here!
One things that a most people overlook is how the high (and even moderate) consumption of fats in the diet keeps blood sugar high by coating the cells and not allowing glucose to exit efficiently. High fat + high carbs = nightmare for the body. But when you lower the fat (especially from animal sources)...carbs no longer become an issue. By lowering the fat in his diet my diabetic father-in-law has experienced improvements with his levels!
I tried this because I wanted it to work but for me it didn't. LCHF does work for me, personally. It may not work for you, but metabolism changes as we grow older and the amount of glucose you can handle also changes over time.
I stay under 20g carbohydrates a day. I never gave the impression that high carb-high fat should be viable. Interesting that you choose to read my response that way.
So....are there particular protein sources that help you stay under 20g carbs per day? Just curious, but this might actually also be on point. Yes, I could go look up the carbs in tofu and tempeh, but it sounds like you might know already. I take it you don't exclude dairy or eggs? But that would still be alot of yogurt and omelets.
I don't eat eggs, for religious reasons, so that limits my sources somewhat. I do use milk products and I make my own fresh cheese. Also tofu is easy to make at home, it's the same process, only with soy milk. I also use nut butters a lot. But I also use a good, plant-based protein powder.
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PeachyCarol wrote: »
Don't blame insulin resistance on age.
"Insulin resistance results from inherited and acquired influences. Hereditary causes include mutations of insulin receptor, glucose transporter, and signaling proteins, although the common forms are largely unidentified. Acquired causes include physical inactivity, diet, medications, hyperglycemia (glucose toxicity), increased free fatty acids, and the aging process" http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/122501-overview#a4
Fasting blood glucose rises with age too, in general.
However " the insulin resistance observed in aged persons can be modified by physical training and that the effect is sustained " http://www.educadorfisicoadinis.com.br/download/artigos/envelhecimento e resist a insulina.pdf
Yes, except that physical training in aged person to a sufficient level is often not viable.
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Yes, except that physical training in aged person to a sufficient level is often not viable.
Sure there are constraints, but many of these are societal or self imposed. The references included practical examples in 60-80 yr olds for example http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/256/3/E352
However we are going to die of something, so I'm not an advocate of massive health initiatives in the elderly.0 -
Op, I'm new to being vegan and can understand the carb frustration. There is a major learning curve. I've been practically a carnivore and have focused mainly on higher fat, higher protein, lower carb until the past couple of months. It's been weird for me to have these huge carb counts when in not used to seeing them. I avoid soy and have to be careful with gluten. I've been trying to figure out how to cut some carbs since I'm fat and don't want to get type 2 diabetes like my family.
Anyway, broccoli, spinach, nuts & seeds are good for low carb protein. Those were big foods for me when I did traditional Atkins years ago. I also use a vegan protein powder in my breakfast smoothie. I've been using a lot of beans, too. Mainly trying to avoid processed fake meat stuff as much as I can. It's still tough for me to get the protein mfp says I need; I'm still very much learning!
There's been some great discussion on this thread. I love it!0 -
Check out healthful persuits.com she has lots of meals for low
Carb vegan vegetarian dairy free etc.0 -
Yes, that's nice if you have the metabolism to handle the insulin response. If you don't, and many people don't, it's another matter. Few people realize that insulin resistance now hits up to 50% of the population. So this is fit for how your metabolism works, at the moment. When I was on your diet, approximately, my blood pressure and triglycerides were through the roof and I gained a lot of weight in fat, much of it of the visceral kind and my cholesterol was frightening. We'll see how you do after 50.
Source for the bold?
OP, if you aren't great at nutrition, you should probably concentrate on that before trying to add additional restrictions.
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jdr/2015/362375/fig2/
from
Population-Based Studies on the Epidemiology of Insulin Resistance in Children, Utrecht, february 2015.
And please read it as it is written: "up to 50%". New Zealand is a case in point.
There are wide ethnic differences. Some ethnic groups are harder hit than others.
Since this was an Epidemiology metadata analysis done for children, I wouldn't exactly extrapolate that to adults, especially considering there was 6 different ways of measuring IR levels. Which leads to one of the major limitations of the meta analysis:
"Consensus on the definition for IR in children is needed to allow for comparisons between different studies, and to assess the value of IR as a screening measure for children and adolescents with an increased risk of cardiometabolic diseases."
Either way, what it comes down to, there are a lot of overweight people in the world which leads to other major issues, regardless of a particular diet.
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Yes, that's nice if you have the metabolism to handle the insulin response. If you don't, and many people don't, it's another matter. Few people realize that insulin resistance now hits up to 50% of the population. So this is fit for how your metabolism works, at the moment. When I was on your diet, approximately, my blood pressure and triglycerides were through the roof and I gained a lot of weight in fat, much of it of the visceral kind and my cholesterol was frightening. We'll see how you do after 50.
Source for the bold?
OP, if you aren't great at nutrition, you should probably concentrate on that before trying to add additional restrictions.
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jdr/2015/362375/fig2/
from
Population-Based Studies on the Epidemiology of Insulin Resistance in Children, Utrecht, february 2015.
And please read it as it is written: "up to 50%". New Zealand is a case in point.
There are wide ethnic differences. Some ethnic groups are harder hit than others.
Since this was an Epidemiology metadata analysis done for children, I wouldn't exactly extrapolate that to adults, especially considering there was 6 different ways of measuring IR levels. Which leads to one of the major limitations of the meta analysis:
"Consensus on the definition for IR in children is needed to allow for comparisons between different studies, and to assess the value of IR as a screening measure for children and adolescents with an increased risk of cardiometabolic diseases."
Either way, what it comes down to, there are a lot of overweight people in the world which leads to other major issues, regardless of a particular diet.
Found this one in the meantime:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17967708
that compares the periods 1988/1994 and 1999/2002
Strange not to find more recent studies...
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I guess the first question is to define your "Insulin Resistance" statistic. 25% of Brazilian adult women in http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0125365 exceeded their cutoff of HOMA-IR > 2.710
This discussion has been closed.
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