Jogging+upper body/abs strength training

Jillianx115x
Jillianx115x Posts: 41 Member
edited November 23 in Fitness and Exercise
Good Morning. Looking for advice from people who are educated on exercise.

I am currently running 2-3 miles per day. I am happy with my legs and butt, but I would like to tone up and get some definition in my arms, chest, back, and abs.

Recently purchased the 21 day fix program. For those who don't know, it includes a different work out daily that targets a different muscle group daily. I strongly dislike their full body cardio videos as well as their lower body strength training videos. I do however think the upper body videos and abdominal videos are great.

So here is my question. If i were to continue using jogging for my cardio and use the upper body and ab exercise videos in addition to my running, will my body begin to look un even and top heavy? I will only be using 3-5lb weights. I'm just concerned that if I don't do strength training on my lower half as well, I will look uneven. And I don't want to do anything besides running for lower body. I'm happy with how it currently is and I dont want to change it.

So, is it possible to have a nice lean over all evenly toned body with jogging plus upper body and ab strength training? Anyone have experience with this? Not sure if it matters, but I'm 5'4 and 122lbs.

Replies

  • IsaackGMOON
    IsaackGMOON Posts: 3,358 Member
    You're not going to gain any muscle with 3-5lb weights... and especially while you're in a deficit, and especially if you're female - it's even harder because you have less testosterone.

    Start lifting heavy, and eat in a deficit;
    • New Rules of Lifting For Women
    • Strong Curves
    • ICF 5x5
    • StrongLifts 5x5
    • 0.6-0.8g of protein per lb of body mass
    • 0.4-0.45g of fat per lb of body mass
    • fill rest of calories with carbs
  • Jillianx115x
    Jillianx115x Posts: 41 Member
    So doing 30 minute upper body routines every other day with 5lb weights will literally do nothing at all? That seems very odd. Especially because my arms are super sore. Something has to be happening.
  • msf74
    msf74 Posts: 3,498 Member
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    So, is it possible to have a nice lean over all evenly toned body with jogging plus upper body and ab strength training?

    The short answer to your question is yes it is.

    It's not the most time efficient way of reaching a "toned" physique if that is your primary goal however. That said if you enjoy what you are doing and therefore do it consistently you will get much further than having the best plan in the world which you follow infrequently because it doesn't float your boat.

    Also, changes to phsyique tend to happen over the course of some time, not within a few days or weeks. So, if you find yourself moving towards territory you don't like you can stop and try something different.

  • RGv2
    RGv2 Posts: 5,789 Member
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    So doing 30 minute upper body routines every other day with 5lb weights will literally do nothing at all? That seems very odd. Especially because my arms are super sore. Something has to be happening.

    I think that the poster is indicating that adding the 5lb weights won't add anything to the workout, not that the workout won't do anything at all.

    Keep doing what you're doing, but I would also advise looking into the programs Isaack noted.
  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    So doing 30 minute upper body routines every other day with 5lb weights will literally do nothing at all? That seems very odd. Especially because my arms are super sore. Something has to be happening.

    Your arms are sore because it is something that you haven't done regularly in the past. The amount of strength that you gain lifting 3-5 pounds is limited. If you move up in strength, bit by bit, you will gain more strength. If you don't want to lift really heavy weight, that is fine, but 3-5 pounds is just not much. It's a sack of flour or a two month premature baby. Most moms who carry/lift their babies regularly strengthen their arms a bit when they first start doing it but they only keep getting stronger because their babies get heavier as time goes on.
  • Jillianx115x
    Jillianx115x Posts: 41 Member
    Thank you for the replies. I read a bit more on the forum and it seems that you cant/wont get bulky while in a calorie deficit (which Im in). So that pretty much answers my questions because that's what I was concerned about
  • _Bropollo_
    _Bropollo_ Posts: 168 Member
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    So doing 30 minute upper body routines every other day with 5lb weights will literally do nothing at all? That seems very odd. Especially because my arms are super sore. Something has to be happening.

    OP, see #2. Common myth most females seem to buy into. Lactic acid buildup =/= gainz: acaloriecounter.com/weight-training-results.php

    The "toned" physiques you see on magazines, instragram, w/e. are combo of several years of weight training and a pretty low bodyfat %.

    +1 Issack's suggestions on finding a solid beginner's lifting program. Also, you should know that you cannot gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. You will have to pick between one or the other ("cutting" or "bulking").
  • Jillianx115x
    Jillianx115x Posts: 41 Member
    For now I will pick cutting. I am sure that you are all more knowledgeable than I am on this subject, but it just seems strange that you can't gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously. If that were the case (and Im not saying it's not) why would people even work out while dieting?

    The program I just purchased (21 day fix) combines a calorie deficit with intense 30 minute strength training videos and it is sold on the premise that you will lose weight and gain muscle tone.
  • ar9179
    ar9179 Posts: 374 Member
    If i were to continue using jogging for my cardio and use the upper body and ab exercise videos in addition to my running, will my body begin to look un even and top heavy? I will only be using 3-5lb weights.

    No, you won't look top heavy. You aren't maximizing progress with such light weights, but I agree with sticking to a program you like. It's better than nothing and endurance activities have their pluses.


    So, is it possible to have a nice lean over all evenly toned body with jogging plus upper body and ab strength training? Anyone have experience with this? Not sure if it matters, but I'm 5'4 and 122lbs.


    Yes, however the program you are choosing is not a strength program but endurance focused. The key to the look you are after is losing more body fat to reveal the muscle underneath. This can be achieved through recomposition - read this thread http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10177803/recomposition-maintaining-weight-while-losing-fat/p1
    Or, you can continue a deficit while following one of the programs listed above in addition to your running. Either of these two options will not only get you the "fit" look you mentioned, but they will also improve your running. I didn't expect the improvements I've seen in my other activities since I started Stronglifts. Silly of me, but I didn't even think that far ahead! My focus was to minimize muscle loss while in a deficit.

    The programs listed by Isaack will actually ensure a more evenly "toned" appearance, rather than top/bottom heavy, since the whole body is engaged and working with those basic, heavy lifts.
  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    For now I will pick cutting. I am sure that you are all more knowledgeable than I am on this subject, but it just seems strange that you can't gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously. If that were the case (and Im not saying it's not) why would people even work out while dieting?

    The program I just purchased (21 day fix) combines a calorie deficit with intense 30 minute strength training videos and it is sold on the premise that you will lose weight and gain muscle tone.

    You work out in order to improve/retain general fitness and physical ability. You lift weights to maintain/increase strength and to maintain muscle mass. Added strength does not require increased muscle mass. There are some people who gain muscle while eating in a deficit (new lifters, overfat lifters, returning lifters) but the gain they see is not necessarily the gain that would happen if they were eating at maintenance or above. Additionally, women gain a lot slower than men, in general, due to basic physiological differences (testosterone, etc.) So add that to the low amount of growth possible in a deficit and you can see how you wouldn't add much muscle at all.

    If you are wanting to build muscle and lose fat, you could eat at maintenance. This is called recomping. It is a long term project (some people will say painfully slow but it's a matter of perspective) and may be a better bet than continuing to cut at this point since you're at a good weight.
  • Jillianx115x
    Jillianx115x Posts: 41 Member
    edited September 2015
    All of this information is very helpful. I really appreciate it. I feel like I've learned a lot that I didnt know just in the last half hour with reading these replies. Thank you everyone!
  • jenmckane86
    jenmckane86 Posts: 50 Member
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    but it just seems strange that you can't gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously. If that were the case (and Im not saying it's not) why would people even work out while dieting?

    The program I just purchased (21 day fix) combines a calorie deficit with intense 30 minute strength training videos and it is sold on the premise that you will lose weight and gain muscle tone.

    Others, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the whole point of working out while dieting is to create an even bigger calorie deficit. People add in strength training to preserve what muscle they currently have, that way you are not losing so much muscle while in the deficit.

    As far as the program you purchased...it's clever advertising. You won't be gaining anything other than the appearance of more "toned" muscles. You will be eating at a deficit which will cause you to lose weight in the form of muscle and fat. Add the strength training program and now you are able to somewhat keep what muscle you already had.

  • kami3006
    kami3006 Posts: 4,979 Member
    jenmckane86 wrote: »
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    but it just seems strange that you can't gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously. If that were the case (and Im not saying it's not) why would people even work out while dieting?

    The program I just purchased (21 day fix) combines a calorie deficit with intense 30 minute strength training videos and it is sold on the premise that you will lose weight and gain muscle tone.

    Others, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the whole point of working out while dieting is to create an even bigger calorie deficit. People add in strength training to preserve what muscle they currently have, that way you are not losing so much muscle while in the deficit.

    As far as the program you purchased...it's clever advertising. You won't be gaining anything other than the appearance of more "toned" muscles. You will be eating at a deficit which will cause you to lose weight in the form of muscle and fat. Add the strength training program and now you are able to somewhat keep what muscle you already had.

    Some do it for added deficit but many of us don't. I found it much easier and less stressful to manage my deficit through my eating and exercise purely for fitness, maintaining muscle mass, and gaining strength. I eat 100% of my exercise calories back; pretty much the way MFP is designed. Then, I didn't have to worry about missing a workout or what the most effective version of (insert exercise here) is. I just did what I wanted for fitness goals and the deficit was there regardless.
  • 5BeautifulDays
    5BeautifulDays Posts: 683 Member
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    For now I will pick cutting. I am sure that you are all more knowledgeable than I am on this subject, but it just seems strange that you can't gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously. If that were the case (and Im not saying it's not) why would people even work out while dieting?

    The program I just purchased (21 day fix) combines a calorie deficit with intense 30 minute strength training videos and it is sold on the premise that you will lose weight and gain muscle tone.

    What I think a lot of women mean when they say "toned" is "less fat, and you can see I have some muscle under there." That is achieved by losing body fat (eating in a deficit) and lifting weights to maintain and strengthen the muscle you already have. Your arms/abs will look better over time as you lose weight if you lift weights (or do body-weight exercises) while doing so.

  • SuggaD
    SuggaD Posts: 1,369 Member
    My upper body didn't get the toned look I'm rocking now until I upped my weights a ton and did it consistently 3x per week and switched to maintenance. 3-5 lbs is unlikely to get you there, imo.
  • Jillianx115x
    Jillianx115x Posts: 41 Member
    edited September 2015
    My definition of toned is being able to wave my arms for bingo with no wings flopping around underneath. Or hop up and down in a bikini withouy any jiggles on my stomach, etc.
  • Jillianx115x
    Jillianx115x Posts: 41 Member
    edited September 2015
    It sounds like based on what Im reading you have to strip away all of the underlying fat before you can even begin working towards gaining muscle for the lean definition look. Also seems like I may be able to get some of that look just by continuing to jog and stay in a deficit. My goal weight is 115, so I think I'll continue the running and deficit until i reach that point and then re evaluate everything at that point.
  • kami3006
    kami3006 Posts: 4,979 Member
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    It sounds like based on what Im reading you have to strip away all of the underlying fat before you can even begin working towards gaining muscle for the lean definition look. Also seems like I may be able to get some of that look just by continuing to jog and stay in a deficit. My goal weight is 115, so I think I'll continue the running and deficit until i reach that point and then re evaluate everything at that point.

    When you're in a deficit, you lose fat and muscle. So, if you want to look lean and "toned" you should do some type of resistance training and get adequate protein to preserve the muscle you already have. It's much harder to get back muscle after the fact than it is to maintain what you already have.
  • Jillianx115x
    Jillianx115x Posts: 41 Member
    kami3006 wrote: »
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    It sounds like based on what Im reading you have to strip away all of the underlying fat before you can even begin working towards gaining muscle for the lean definition look. Also seems like I may be able to get some of that look just by continuing to jog and stay in a deficit. My goal weight is 115, so I think I'll continue the running and deficit until i reach that point and then re evaluate everything at that point.

    When you're in a deficit, you lose fat and muscle. So, if you want to look lean and "toned" you should do some type of resistance training and get adequate protein to preserve the muscle you already have. It's much harder to get back muscle after the fact than it is to maintain what you already have.

    So i will continue to do what I am doing which is the 3 miles daily and upper body with 5lb weights every other day and ab video every other day.
  • Jennloella
    Jennloella Posts: 2,286 Member
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    Thank you for the replies. I read a bit more on the forum and it seems that you cant/wont get bulky while in a calorie deficit (which Im in). So that pretty much answers my questions because that's what I was concerned about

    You won't get bulky with those weights even if not in a deficit.
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    edited September 2015
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    kami3006 wrote: »
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    It sounds like based on what Im reading you have to strip away all of the underlying fat before you can even begin working towards gaining muscle for the lean definition look. Also seems like I may be able to get some of that look just by continuing to jog and stay in a deficit. My goal weight is 115, so I think I'll continue the running and deficit until i reach that point and then re evaluate everything at that point.

    When you're in a deficit, you lose fat and muscle. So, if you want to look lean and "toned" you should do some type of resistance training and get adequate protein to preserve the muscle you already have. It's much harder to get back muscle after the fact than it is to maintain what you already have.

    So i will continue to do what I am doing which is the 3 miles daily and upper body with 5lb weights every other day and ab video every other day.

    5lb isn't going to get you anywhere.

    Do you have children? Or do you carry grocery bags? Those are way heavier and you didn't get bigger muscles from that.
  • rileyes
    rileyes Posts: 1,406 Member
    Yes. Don't neglect strength training. It can help you with the lean look you are seeking. It can also help your running power. Lift heavy!

    Also push-ups, planks, rotations and pull-ups can help your upper body.
  • _Bropollo_
    _Bropollo_ Posts: 168 Member
    edited September 2015
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    For now I will pick cutting. I am sure that you are all more knowledgeable than I am on this subject, but it just seems strange that you can't gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously. If that were the case (and Im not saying it's not) why would people even work out while dieting?

    You lift on a deficit to retain muscle. If you try to drop weight strictly through calorie reduction, with no external stimulus telling your body you need muscle to "survive", your body will drop muscle in order to maintain peak caloric efficiency. The body doesn't really want to have added muscle mass; it requires additional calories to keep around, and our bodies are hardwired to maximize our longevity between meals, aka, use as few calories as possible.
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    The program I just purchased (21 day fix) combines a calorie deficit with intense 30 minute strength training videos and it is sold on the premise that you will lose weight and gain muscle tone.

    Gotta sell programs somehow :p. The fitness industry is highly unregulated; companies can sell all kinds of snake oil and legally get away with it.
  • RGv2
    RGv2 Posts: 5,789 Member
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    kami3006 wrote: »
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    It sounds like based on what Im reading you have to strip away all of the underlying fat before you can even begin working towards gaining muscle for the lean definition look. Also seems like I may be able to get some of that look just by continuing to jog and stay in a deficit. My goal weight is 115, so I think I'll continue the running and deficit until i reach that point and then re evaluate everything at that point.

    When you're in a deficit, you lose fat and muscle. So, if you want to look lean and "toned" you should do some type of resistance training and get adequate protein to preserve the muscle you already have. It's much harder to get back muscle after the fact than it is to maintain what you already have.

    So i will continue to do what I am doing which is the 3 miles daily and upper body with 5lb weights every other day and ab video every other day.

    That isn't going to get you where you want to go. 5lb weights won't do much for the resistance training we're all talking about.

    You should be finding a solid progressive overload program, a few of them were listed above.
  • _Bropollo_
    _Bropollo_ Posts: 168 Member
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    kami3006 wrote: »
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    It sounds like based on what Im reading you have to strip away all of the underlying fat before you can even begin working towards gaining muscle for the lean definition look. Also seems like I may be able to get some of that look just by continuing to jog and stay in a deficit. My goal weight is 115, so I think I'll continue the running and deficit until i reach that point and then re evaluate everything at that point.

    When you're in a deficit, you lose fat and muscle. So, if you want to look lean and "toned" you should do some type of resistance training and get adequate protein to preserve the muscle you already have. It's much harder to get back muscle after the fact than it is to maintain what you already have.

    So i will continue to do what I am doing which is the 3 miles daily and upper body with 5lb weights every other day and ab video every other day.

    You need to progressively overload your lifts. You will make progress with that weight for maybe a solid week before your strength progress is totally stalled.

    Here is how pretty much all (good) weight training programs work (this principle is called progressive overload):

    -You pick a lift (let's take dumbbell shoulder presses for example, since you have dumbbells).
    -You find a weight you can do for 5-10 reps of that lift. If you can do more 10 reps, it's too light. If you can't do 5 reps, it's too heavy.
    -You pick a number of sets based on your reps you just tested out. You want to keep the total reps in the 25-35 range. You will do best to just follow the program for this until you get a better idea how to select number of sets.
    -The next time you workout again and do this lift you either a) increase the number of reps you do each set compared to last time or b) increase the weight, and drop your reps down to a lower amount. Ex. You did 5 sets of shoulder presses for 5 reps each last time. This time, you should do 5 sets of shoulder presses, but do 6 reps each set. After a couple of rep increases, maybe once you hit 7 or 8 reps per set, you need to increase the weight. If you were doing 5lbs, its time to grab the 7.5lbs or 10lbs weights, drop your reps back down to 5, and repeat the process until the new heavier weight is once again too light.
  • SueInAz
    SueInAz Posts: 6,592 Member
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    kami3006 wrote: »
    Jillianx115x wrote: »
    It sounds like based on what Im reading you have to strip away all of the underlying fat before you can even begin working towards gaining muscle for the lean definition look. Also seems like I may be able to get some of that look just by continuing to jog and stay in a deficit. My goal weight is 115, so I think I'll continue the running and deficit until i reach that point and then re evaluate everything at that point.

    When you're in a deficit, you lose fat and muscle. So, if you want to look lean and "toned" you should do some type of resistance training and get adequate protein to preserve the muscle you already have. It's much harder to get back muscle after the fact than it is to maintain what you already have.

    So i will continue to do what I am doing which is the 3 miles daily and upper body with 5lb weights every other day and ab video every other day.
    You can continue doing what you're doing but the point everyone is trying to make is that the 5lb weights are not going to help you retain very much muscle. Sure, you'll lose weight but you won't be very "toned" once you get to your 115 pounds. Then, you'll decide you want to put on more muscle to lose some of the flabbiness that's still there. Building new muscle takes a lot more work, and requires also gaining some additional fat along with it, than maintaining what muscle you already have right now (and then lost while getting to 115 pounds). Do yourself a huge favor and start a real, progressive lifting program now.
  • questionfear
    questionfear Posts: 527 Member
    Just going to add in here: if you're doing strength training, work out your lower body too. DO NOT assume jogging is doing enough. A few squats, lunges, planks, etc., will help keep your legs and core strong, which will in turn make you a better runner.

    And if you don't work on strengthening your lower legs, you run the risk of running exacerbating existing muscle imbalances. That happened to me-I had imbalances between my left and right leg, and was running a relay (5 miles in the AM, hopped in a car to support teammates, hopped out for my second 5 mile leg) and within 2 miles I was limping badly. A month later I found out I'd trashed my meniscus, and the physical therapist I saw post-surgery basically determined it was all about muscular imbalance. So work those legs and core in addition to running.
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