Diet Breaks/Refeeds
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PinkPixiexox wrote: »Steve_ApexNC wrote: »i eat about 1400 per day. and i am looking for feedback on refeeds and breaks...not opinions on my current consumptiin which has been fine for three months.
Do you feel this is enough for you?
I apologise to keep hashing it up but if you could eat more and still lose weight, would you be happier with that?
Re-feeds are a good idea in the way you described (eating at maintenance)! I wouldn't recommend stoppind tracking altogether and eating 'whatever' for a couple of weeks but your way is what I definitely plan to do in the future!
thank you. My caloric intake had been insufficient so I bumped it up a few weeks ago to slow things down. I was a bit higher than 1400. Through it all, I have made great progress on the weight bench as well as the treadmill. It has only been the last 10 days that I have noticed any issues.
I have no intention of stopping logging. I simply intend to eat closer to maintenance for 2 weeks then to go back to 1k per day deficit.0 -
Since people have been criticizing you the diary has been privatized. It's not constructive OP.0
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You see OP, when someone asks a question and makes mention of specific problems they are having (fatigue in your case) then it is prudent to answer in context. This context being that it appears you have been grossly undereating. MFP has given you the bare minimum recommended calories BEFORE exercise because you've out in a too aggressive weight loss goal. I couldn't eat at a 1000 per day deficit and not do some serious damage to my overall health in the long term.
This isn't people being unhelpful, quite the opposite. So listen to them and EAT.0 -
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Steve_ApexNC wrote: »
So how would you know you're maintaining a 1000 calorie deficit as stated in your OP?
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VintageFeline wrote: »You see OP, when someone asks a question and makes mention of specific problems they are having (fatigue in your case) then it is prudent to answer in context. This context being that it appears you have been grossly undereating. MFP has given you the bare minimum recommended calories BEFORE exercise because you've out in a too aggressive weight loss goal. I couldn't eat at a 1000 per day deficit and not do some serious damage to my overall health in the long term.
This isn't people being unhelpful, quite the opposite. So listen to them and EAT.
1. I am NOT undereating. I eat at a 1K per day deficit. I have a far greater handle on my calories in and calories out than I suspect most anyone here does.
2. My MFP log is not completely accurate thus my post above (which you clearly haven't read) and thus my statements about not knowing all the facts.
3. I didn't ask anyone to solve problems for me. I asked about the theory of diet breaks.
You see, I wasn't looking for feedback on my diet, but what people think of diet breaks. What has since dawned on me is that most folks here don't know what the theory of a diet break is. Since you want context, a diet break, in theory, allows the body's hormones to go back to pre diet levels. This is based on the idea that the fat levels are a regulated system within the body much like body temperature. The science on this is not definitive thus my curiosity on the experiences and knowledge of others. This is the topic I wanted to discuss.
In truth, however, I actually appreciate that some folks are tryign to be helpful and I understand how my log is misleading (thus I closed it). I've tried to divert the topic back to a discussion of diet breaks and not my actual intake (WHICH IS NOT PROPERLY REFLECTED ON MFP). However, it seems that group think is going to rule like it often does on message boards.
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IsaackGMOON wrote: »Steve_ApexNC wrote: »
So how would you know you're maintaining a 1000 calorie deficit as stated in your OP?
I clearly explained that in another post above. RIF.0 -
Steve_ApexNC wrote: »PinkPixiexox wrote: »Steve_ApexNC wrote: »i eat about 1400 per day. and i am looking for feedback on refeeds and breaks...not opinions on my current consumptiin which has been fine for three months.
Do you feel this is enough for you?
I apologise to keep hashing it up but if you could eat more and still lose weight, would you be happier with that?
Re-feeds are a good idea in the way you described (eating at maintenance)! I wouldn't recommend stoppind tracking altogether and eating 'whatever' for a couple of weeks but your way is what I definitely plan to do in the future!
thank you. My caloric intake had been insufficient so I bumped it up a few weeks ago to slow things down. I was a bit higher than 1400. Through it all, I have made great progress on the weight bench as well as the treadmill. It has only been the last 10 days that I have noticed any issues.
I have no intention of stopping logging. I simply intend to eat closer to maintenance for 2 weeks then to go back to 1k per day deficit.
Good idea, at least your body will get sufficient amount of food.
So you are going to eat 1000 calories more above the 1400 you say you normally eat. right?
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BurnWithBarn2015 wrote: »Steve_ApexNC wrote: »PinkPixiexox wrote: »Steve_ApexNC wrote: »i eat about 1400 per day. and i am looking for feedback on refeeds and breaks...not opinions on my current consumptiin which has been fine for three months.
Do you feel this is enough for you?
I apologise to keep hashing it up but if you could eat more and still lose weight, would you be happier with that?
Re-feeds are a good idea in the way you described (eating at maintenance)! I wouldn't recommend stoppind tracking altogether and eating 'whatever' for a couple of weeks but your way is what I definitely plan to do in the future!
thank you. My caloric intake had been insufficient so I bumped it up a few weeks ago to slow things down. I was a bit higher than 1400. Through it all, I have made great progress on the weight bench as well as the treadmill. It has only been the last 10 days that I have noticed any issues.
I have no intention of stopping logging. I simply intend to eat closer to maintenance for 2 weeks then to go back to 1k per day deficit.
Good idea, at least your body will get sufficient amount of food.
So you are going to eat 1000 calories more above the 1400 you say you normally eat. right?
Yes, that is the idea of a diet break. Eating at maintenance which, for me, is between 2300 and 2400 daily plus adjustments for exercise. The concept is to allow things like cortison, leptin, and insulin to return to pre-diet levels. One of the better articles is here: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html/ That said, the research that I have read seems rather split on the conclusions of things like leptin levels and diets. Another reason for me going on a diet break is to gather better data about my actual energy output (although two weeks at perceived maintenance is hardly a large enough sample size, but it is a start to go with the data I have gathered the last 3 months).
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Steve_ApexNC wrote: »BurnWithBarn2015 wrote: »Steve_ApexNC wrote: »PinkPixiexox wrote: »Steve_ApexNC wrote: »i eat about 1400 per day. and i am looking for feedback on refeeds and breaks...not opinions on my current consumptiin which has been fine for three months.
Do you feel this is enough for you?
I apologise to keep hashing it up but if you could eat more and still lose weight, would you be happier with that?
Re-feeds are a good idea in the way you described (eating at maintenance)! I wouldn't recommend stoppind tracking altogether and eating 'whatever' for a couple of weeks but your way is what I definitely plan to do in the future!
thank you. My caloric intake had been insufficient so I bumped it up a few weeks ago to slow things down. I was a bit higher than 1400. Through it all, I have made great progress on the weight bench as well as the treadmill. It has only been the last 10 days that I have noticed any issues.
I have no intention of stopping logging. I simply intend to eat closer to maintenance for 2 weeks then to go back to 1k per day deficit.
Good idea, at least your body will get sufficient amount of food.
So you are going to eat 1000 calories more above the 1400 you say you normally eat. right?
Yes, that is the idea of a diet break. Eating at maintenance which, for me, is between 2300 and 2400 daily plus adjustments for exercise. The concept is to allow things like cortison, leptin, and insulin to return to pre-diet levels. One of the better articles is here: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html/ That said, the research that I have read seems rather split on the conclusions of things like leptin levels and diets. Another reason for me going on a diet break is to gather better data about my actual energy output (although two weeks at perceived maintenance is hardly a large enough sample size, but it is a start to go with the data I have gathered the last 3 months).
lol you dont have to explain
I know pretty much how it works as a former nutritionist i can only applaud the fact you are going to feed your body some sufficient and hard needed nutrition's.
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OP, I tend to agree with Lyle McDonalds research and theories on diet breaks etc.
Although I have not purchased any of his programs or plans but this question will probably be better received on his forums.
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I'm not very well-versed in the idea of taking a diet break, but the premise of it sounds beneficial-if for nothing else than your mental health!0
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Probably the same thread you linked OP but a good read for the "nay sayers" on Diet breaks.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html/0 -
Probably the same thread you linked OP but a good read for the "nay sayers" on Diet breaks.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html/
Nobody is naysaying "diet breaks" in this thread. We're questioning whether OP needs a break (although many have encouraged him to do so) or if he needs to re-examine his extreme calorie deficit. I'm not sure 3 months is a long enough time in a deficit to need a break.0 -
Sure - I took breaks from logging during my weight loss phase. In my case, I was losing at a slow rate - the breaks weren't related to metabolism particularly, and they weren't even calculated - I'd get sick and want to promote healing, or it'd be Christmas. A couple of times, I just got sick of counting for a while. These lasted from a couple of days to a month. My loss didn't stall, as I recall.
Can't speak to the science of it, but if you're overshooting a 2 lbs/week loss and are feeling tired, I think a break is in order.
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You are fatigued because you are eating too little. You don't need a 1000 calorie PER DAY deficit, that's too steep. Instead of going on a "refeed" (potentially setting yourself up for a binge/overrestrict cycle, which is common in those who try to maintain too steep of a calorie deficit over significant periods of time), try creating a smaller deficit. It's easier, better for you, and more sustainable.0
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sigh...nvm.0
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Uh, I'll make a feeble effort at help. You asked for anecdotes.
Glycogen refeeds, carb back-loading & cycling, small intermittent fasting windows - these keyphrases have been the most useful things I've stumbled into recently and have broken my long-time lifting plateaus.
Good luck.
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tincanonastring wrote: »Probably the same thread you linked OP but a good read for the "nay sayers" on Diet breaks.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html/
Nobody is naysaying "diet breaks" in this thread. We're questioning whether OP needs a break (although many have encouraged him to do so) or if he needs to re-examine his extreme calorie deficit. I'm not sure 3 months is a long enough time in a deficit to need a break.Diet breaks are not necessary if you are eating at appropriate amounts while you are in a deficit. You aren't eating at appropriate amounts, so it makes sense that you are experiencing fatigue and low energy. That is what happens when you undereat for months at a time. Eat more. Not just for two weeks.
You were saying?
You clearly did not read from the info provided in the link.
The OP has stated his diary is not accurate, so not sure why everyone is on the "train" that he is starving.
The article explains the benefits of the diet break physiological and psycological in nature as well as how often one should be done.
Generally for leaner people every 4-6 weeks, to every 12 weeks for fatter.
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I've taken several "diet breaks" over the past four years of losing (part of the reason it's taken 4 years haha); most of them coincided with injuries (no sense lengthening recovery time by staying at a deficit), others I took for mental health reasons (sometimes you do need to walk away from the numbers for a bit) and most recently I took a three week one because I wasn't meeting my fitness goals on a deficit -- and my current deficit only has me 300-400 calories below maintenance most days.
I've realized that rather than continually take "diet breaks" it's easier for me to plan to fix the underlying issues that cause me to take them (mental stress, not meeting fitness goals etc); I tend to eat to maintenance on weekends now (since I usually hike or run) and only create my deficit during the week. Sure, my weight loss is slower, but I have the energy to accomplish my goals.
Really, it's all about your priorities. If you think stepping away from the deficit is going to be beneficial for you; then do it. Your body, your life, your decision. In regards to the science, it's a little bit fuzzy -- you know that. I think you're right in saying that (especially if you're looking to collect data) two weeks is too short of a time for any meaningful learning.
I will say though, I don't know your full stats, but I'm a little surprised that your TDEE would be 2300-2400 only (as you seem to think it is based on your post detailing adding back the 1000 cals); I wouldn't be surprised that you've been losing faster (beyond the first month where likely a fair amount of water weight was involved) than you expected to because you may actually be creating a larger deficit than you think. You say you've been tracking data etc, so I'm not going to argue with you, I'm just pointing out there may be a margin of error there.
Basically, my advice is: If you want a break, take a break. Worst that happens is the scale doesn't trend down for a few weeks. And just to be the annoying, caring person I am, I'll also say: people who can't create a 1000 calorie a day deficit without dipping below the minimums for their gender (1500 for men) likely shouldn't be long-term from a health standpoint.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »Probably the same thread you linked OP but a good read for the "nay sayers" on Diet breaks.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html/
Nobody is naysaying "diet breaks" in this thread. We're questioning whether OP needs a break (although many have encouraged him to do so) or if he needs to re-examine his extreme calorie deficit. I'm not sure 3 months is a long enough time in a deficit to need a break.Diet breaks are not necessary if you are eating at appropriate amounts while you are in a deficit. You aren't eating at appropriate amounts, so it makes sense that you are experiencing fatigue and low energy. That is what happens when you undereat for months at a time. Eat more. Not just for two weeks.
You were saying?
You clearly did not read from the info provided in the link.
The OP has stated his diary is not accurate, so not sure why everyone is on the "train" that he is starving.
The article explains the benefits of the diet break physiological and psycological in nature as well as how often one should be done.
Generally for leaner people every 4-6 weeks, to every 12 weeks for fatter.
That's still not naysaying. Saying something isn't necessary isn't naysaying, especially when the next statement further clarifies that it's a personal preference. OP has also said he is eating around 1400 calories and it sounds to me like that's total, not net. His maintenance is 2400 which means he's netting sub 1000 on days when he exercises (though perhaps I missed that it's 1400 net?). I stand by my statement that he doesn't need a break but a complete reassessment.
Talk about reading comprehension. Where do you think I got the 3 month thing not being enough? I disagree that it's necessary after that time period and nothing presented in the article convinced me otherwise.0 -
Your best bet is to read Lyle McDonald's "A Guide To Flexible Dieting" where he goes into a lot of detail on the subject.
You may find this article of use as well:
more info than you can shake a stick at...
I think diet breaks are a particularly useful tool for most dieters (refeeds are a bit OTT in this context).0
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