Protein Powder - yay or nay?
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midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »sheermomentum wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »The benefits of meal timing around lifting are so small that it almost certainly wouldn't be worth switching around calories unless the effort and impact on the rest of the day were trivial. If doing so made you hungry earlier or later in the day, for example, it wouldn't be advantageous to do.
THIS! If you want the protein drink, then have it but if you are getting a good amount of protein the rest of the day, then the shake is not going to significantly impact you in any way.lindsey1979 wrote: »You will improve your recovery if you eat a good deal of protein AND carbs post workout -- carbs create the insulingenic response to help shuttle nutrients (protein and vitamins and carbs) into cell for muscle building/recovery.
This is not how insulin works. It promotes the uptake of glucose from the bloodstream into cells, and it inhibits the production of glucose by the liver. It is not involved in protein metabolism/synthesis or in metabolic processes involving vitamins.
Per Lyle:
"When elevated (and I’d note here that while carbohydrate has the primary effect on raising insulin, protein also raises insulin; as well, the combination of protein and carbohydrate raises insulin more than either alone), insulin pushes nutrients into cells. So insulin stimulates glycogen storage in the liver, it also enhances glycogen storage in skeletal muscle. And while insulin isn’t that critically involved in protein synthesis per se, it does decrease protein breakdown; as discussed in The Protein Book, this is important for maximal increases in muscle mass. So far so good."
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/insulin-levels-and-fat-loss-qa.html/
Lyle is right, but it doesn't really matter here. At issue is timing. Protein takes a long time to digest (which is why eating it at the beginning of a workout won't help unless you are working out for a long time - 90 min. to 3 hours), which also means it doesn't elevate BG for a long time. Also, not all protein converts to BG (100% of net carbs does).
So while insulin might be assisting with the process to remove BG and create glycogen, you need to have something adding BG before it gets removed. That requires carbs. This is why you need to eat carbs right before / during your workout.
Yes, I generally agree with you. But, as he says in the other quote, eating BOTH protein and carbs post-workout appears to have the best effect (better than just protein or carbs alone) because of the increased insulin response (and obviously, having building blocks for glycogen and muscle synthesis). So if you've eaten some protein within 3 hours or so of the end of your work out, you're probably fine. But if it's longer than that (as it is for many of us), then you'd be better off adding some protein in there (whether BCAAs as you go or protein in your post-workout meal/recovery drink). Am I missing something there?
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lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »sheermomentum wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »The benefits of meal timing around lifting are so small that it almost certainly wouldn't be worth switching around calories unless the effort and impact on the rest of the day were trivial. If doing so made you hungry earlier or later in the day, for example, it wouldn't be advantageous to do.
THIS! If you want the protein drink, then have it but if you are getting a good amount of protein the rest of the day, then the shake is not going to significantly impact you in any way.lindsey1979 wrote: »You will improve your recovery if you eat a good deal of protein AND carbs post workout -- carbs create the insulingenic response to help shuttle nutrients (protein and vitamins and carbs) into cell for muscle building/recovery.
This is not how insulin works. It promotes the uptake of glucose from the bloodstream into cells, and it inhibits the production of glucose by the liver. It is not involved in protein metabolism/synthesis or in metabolic processes involving vitamins.
Per Lyle:
"When elevated (and I’d note here that while carbohydrate has the primary effect on raising insulin, protein also raises insulin; as well, the combination of protein and carbohydrate raises insulin more than either alone), insulin pushes nutrients into cells. So insulin stimulates glycogen storage in the liver, it also enhances glycogen storage in skeletal muscle. And while insulin isn’t that critically involved in protein synthesis per se, it does decrease protein breakdown; as discussed in The Protein Book, this is important for maximal increases in muscle mass. So far so good."
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/insulin-levels-and-fat-loss-qa.html/
Lyle is right, but it doesn't really matter here. At issue is timing. Protein takes a long time to digest (which is why eating it at the beginning of a workout won't help unless you are working out for a long time - 90 min. to 3 hours), which also means it doesn't elevate BG for a long time. Also, not all protein converts to BG (100% of net carbs does).
So while insulin might be assisting with the process to remove BG and create glycogen, you need to have something adding BG before it gets removed. That requires carbs. This is why you need to eat carbs right before / during your workout.
Yes, I generally agree with you. But, as he says in the other quote, eating BOTH protein and carbs post-workout appears to have the best effect (better than just protein or carbs alone) because of the increased insulin response (and obviously, having building blocks for glycogen and muscle synthesis). So if you've eaten some protein within 3 hours or so of the end of your work out, you're probably fine. But if it's longer than that (as it is for many of us), then you'd be better off adding some protein in there (whether BCAAs as you go or protein in your post-workout meal/recovery drink). Am I missing something there?
Yes, you are missing that when carbs and protein (and/or fat) are combined, then the digestion / BG increase from carbs is slowed.
Ideally, you would consume simple carbs before or during workouts because they will raise BG within 5-20 min. This is difficult for a lot of people because many of us will lose our cookies (pun intended) if we eat/drink right before working out. The next best thing is to consume carbs as soon as the workout is completed so it can add to BG without delay. Pairing it with protein causes a delay.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »sheermomentum wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »The benefits of meal timing around lifting are so small that it almost certainly wouldn't be worth switching around calories unless the effort and impact on the rest of the day were trivial. If doing so made you hungry earlier or later in the day, for example, it wouldn't be advantageous to do.
THIS! If you want the protein drink, then have it but if you are getting a good amount of protein the rest of the day, then the shake is not going to significantly impact you in any way.lindsey1979 wrote: »You will improve your recovery if you eat a good deal of protein AND carbs post workout -- carbs create the insulingenic response to help shuttle nutrients (protein and vitamins and carbs) into cell for muscle building/recovery.
This is not how insulin works. It promotes the uptake of glucose from the bloodstream into cells, and it inhibits the production of glucose by the liver. It is not involved in protein metabolism/synthesis or in metabolic processes involving vitamins.
Per Lyle:
"When elevated (and I’d note here that while carbohydrate has the primary effect on raising insulin, protein also raises insulin; as well, the combination of protein and carbohydrate raises insulin more than either alone), insulin pushes nutrients into cells. So insulin stimulates glycogen storage in the liver, it also enhances glycogen storage in skeletal muscle. And while insulin isn’t that critically involved in protein synthesis per se, it does decrease protein breakdown; as discussed in The Protein Book, this is important for maximal increases in muscle mass. So far so good."
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/insulin-levels-and-fat-loss-qa.html/
Lyle is right, but it doesn't really matter here. At issue is timing. Protein takes a long time to digest (which is why eating it at the beginning of a workout won't help unless you are working out for a long time - 90 min. to 3 hours), which also means it doesn't elevate BG for a long time. Also, not all protein converts to BG (100% of net carbs does).
So while insulin might be assisting with the process to remove BG and create glycogen, you need to have something adding BG before it gets removed. That requires carbs. This is why you need to eat carbs right before / during your workout.
Yes, I generally agree with you. But, as he says in the other quote, eating BOTH protein and carbs post-workout appears to have the best effect (better than just protein or carbs alone) because of the increased insulin response (and obviously, having building blocks for glycogen and muscle synthesis). So if you've eaten some protein within 3 hours or so of the end of your work out, you're probably fine. But if it's longer than that (as it is for many of us), then you'd be better off adding some protein in there (whether BCAAs as you go or protein in your post-workout meal/recovery drink). Am I missing something there?
Yes, you are missing that when carbs and protein (and/or fat) are combined, then the digestion / BG increase from carbs is slowed.
Ideally, you would consume simple carbs before or during workouts because they will raise BG within 5-20 min. This is difficult for a lot of people because many of us will lose our cookies (pun intended) if we eat/drink right before working out. The next best thing is to consume carbs as soon as the workout is completed so it can add to BG without delay. Pairing it with protein causes a delay.
Well, that seems to contradict your previous agreement on the statement: "I'm going to stick with Lyle's explanation: " while protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone, the combination of the two will have the greatest impact on promoting muscle growth (as well as having other beneficial effects on muscle glycogen, etc)."
You said, absolutely, but now seem to be contradicting that and favoring a carb-only post workout meal/recovery. I'm trying to understand the difference.
If the idea is that you've eaten protein within 3 hours of the end of your workout so you don't need more post-workout, that I understand. But if you haven't eaten protein in the time frame, it seems that you both benefit the most from both carbs AND protein post-workout (or pre-workout if you can stomach it -- though, as you point out, most of us can't).
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I eat casein protein before bed...usually cottage cheese and some berries. I know many don't like the texture but I don't mind cottage cheese.0
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lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »sheermomentum wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »The benefits of meal timing around lifting are so small that it almost certainly wouldn't be worth switching around calories unless the effort and impact on the rest of the day were trivial. If doing so made you hungry earlier or later in the day, for example, it wouldn't be advantageous to do.
THIS! If you want the protein drink, then have it but if you are getting a good amount of protein the rest of the day, then the shake is not going to significantly impact you in any way.lindsey1979 wrote: »You will improve your recovery if you eat a good deal of protein AND carbs post workout -- carbs create the insulingenic response to help shuttle nutrients (protein and vitamins and carbs) into cell for muscle building/recovery.
This is not how insulin works. It promotes the uptake of glucose from the bloodstream into cells, and it inhibits the production of glucose by the liver. It is not involved in protein metabolism/synthesis or in metabolic processes involving vitamins.
Per Lyle:
"When elevated (and I’d note here that while carbohydrate has the primary effect on raising insulin, protein also raises insulin; as well, the combination of protein and carbohydrate raises insulin more than either alone), insulin pushes nutrients into cells. So insulin stimulates glycogen storage in the liver, it also enhances glycogen storage in skeletal muscle. And while insulin isn’t that critically involved in protein synthesis per se, it does decrease protein breakdown; as discussed in The Protein Book, this is important for maximal increases in muscle mass. So far so good."
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/insulin-levels-and-fat-loss-qa.html/
Lyle is right, but it doesn't really matter here. At issue is timing. Protein takes a long time to digest (which is why eating it at the beginning of a workout won't help unless you are working out for a long time - 90 min. to 3 hours), which also means it doesn't elevate BG for a long time. Also, not all protein converts to BG (100% of net carbs does).
So while insulin might be assisting with the process to remove BG and create glycogen, you need to have something adding BG before it gets removed. That requires carbs. This is why you need to eat carbs right before / during your workout.
Yes, I generally agree with you. But, as he says in the other quote, eating BOTH protein and carbs post-workout appears to have the best effect (better than just protein or carbs alone) because of the increased insulin response (and obviously, having building blocks for glycogen and muscle synthesis). So if you've eaten some protein within 3 hours or so of the end of your work out, you're probably fine. But if it's longer than that (as it is for many of us), then you'd be better off adding some protein in there (whether BCAAs as you go or protein in your post-workout meal/recovery drink). Am I missing something there?
Yes, you are missing that when carbs and protein (and/or fat) are combined, then the digestion / BG increase from carbs is slowed.
Ideally, you would consume simple carbs before or during workouts because they will raise BG within 5-20 min. This is difficult for a lot of people because many of us will lose our cookies (pun intended) if we eat/drink right before working out. The next best thing is to consume carbs as soon as the workout is completed so it can add to BG without delay. Pairing it with protein causes a delay.
Well, that seems to contradict your previous agreement on the statement: "I'm going to stick with Lyle's explanation: " while protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone, the combination of the two will have the greatest impact on promoting muscle growth (as well as having other beneficial effects on muscle glycogen, etc)."
You said, absolutely, but now seem to be contradicting that and favoring a carb-only post workout meal/recovery. I'm trying to understand the difference.
If the idea is that you've eaten protein within 3 hours of the end of your workout so you don't need more post-workout, that I understand. But if you haven't eaten protein in the time frame, it seems that you both benefit the most from both carbs AND protein post-workout (or pre-workout if you can stomach it -- though, as you point out, most of us can't).
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Here is clarification on the 2 points:
"Yes, Absolutely!" - Explanation: Nobody should eat only carbs. Nobody should eat only protein.
"Timing is important." - Eat carbs immediately before or during (or immediately after) working out. Eat protein at other times, but not with those carbs.
Conclusion: Eat carbs right before, during, or immediately after working out. Eat protein earlier or later. At the end of the day, you should have eaten both carbs and protein.
How is that contradictory?0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »sheermomentum wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »The benefits of meal timing around lifting are so small that it almost certainly wouldn't be worth switching around calories unless the effort and impact on the rest of the day were trivial. If doing so made you hungry earlier or later in the day, for example, it wouldn't be advantageous to do.
THIS! If you want the protein drink, then have it but if you are getting a good amount of protein the rest of the day, then the shake is not going to significantly impact you in any way.lindsey1979 wrote: »You will improve your recovery if you eat a good deal of protein AND carbs post workout -- carbs create the insulingenic response to help shuttle nutrients (protein and vitamins and carbs) into cell for muscle building/recovery.
This is not how insulin works. It promotes the uptake of glucose from the bloodstream into cells, and it inhibits the production of glucose by the liver. It is not involved in protein metabolism/synthesis or in metabolic processes involving vitamins.
Per Lyle:
"When elevated (and I’d note here that while carbohydrate has the primary effect on raising insulin, protein also raises insulin; as well, the combination of protein and carbohydrate raises insulin more than either alone), insulin pushes nutrients into cells. So insulin stimulates glycogen storage in the liver, it also enhances glycogen storage in skeletal muscle. And while insulin isn’t that critically involved in protein synthesis per se, it does decrease protein breakdown; as discussed in The Protein Book, this is important for maximal increases in muscle mass. So far so good."
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/insulin-levels-and-fat-loss-qa.html/
Lyle is right, but it doesn't really matter here. At issue is timing. Protein takes a long time to digest (which is why eating it at the beginning of a workout won't help unless you are working out for a long time - 90 min. to 3 hours), which also means it doesn't elevate BG for a long time. Also, not all protein converts to BG (100% of net carbs does).
So while insulin might be assisting with the process to remove BG and create glycogen, you need to have something adding BG before it gets removed. That requires carbs. This is why you need to eat carbs right before / during your workout.
Yes, I generally agree with you. But, as he says in the other quote, eating BOTH protein and carbs post-workout appears to have the best effect (better than just protein or carbs alone) because of the increased insulin response (and obviously, having building blocks for glycogen and muscle synthesis). So if you've eaten some protein within 3 hours or so of the end of your work out, you're probably fine. But if it's longer than that (as it is for many of us), then you'd be better off adding some protein in there (whether BCAAs as you go or protein in your post-workout meal/recovery drink). Am I missing something there?
Yes, you are missing that when carbs and protein (and/or fat) are combined, then the digestion / BG increase from carbs is slowed.
Ideally, you would consume simple carbs before or during workouts because they will raise BG within 5-20 min. This is difficult for a lot of people because many of us will lose our cookies (pun intended) if we eat/drink right before working out. The next best thing is to consume carbs as soon as the workout is completed so it can add to BG without delay. Pairing it with protein causes a delay.
Well, that seems to contradict your previous agreement on the statement: "I'm going to stick with Lyle's explanation: " while protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone, the combination of the two will have the greatest impact on promoting muscle growth (as well as having other beneficial effects on muscle glycogen, etc)."
You said, absolutely, but now seem to be contradicting that and favoring a carb-only post workout meal/recovery. I'm trying to understand the difference.
If the idea is that you've eaten protein within 3 hours of the end of your workout so you don't need more post-workout, that I understand. But if you haven't eaten protein in the time frame, it seems that you both benefit the most from both carbs AND protein post-workout (or pre-workout if you can stomach it -- though, as you point out, most of us can't).
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Here is clarification on the 2 points:
"Yes, Absolutely!" - Explanation: Nobody should eat only carbs. Nobody should eat only protein.
"Timing is important." - Eat carbs immediately before or during (or immediately after) working out. Eat protein at other times, but not with those carbs.
Conclusion: Eat carbs right before, during, or immediately after working out. Eat protein earlier or later. At the end of the day, you should have eaten both carbs and protein.
How is that contradictory?
Thank you for the clarification. That helps. The only point where I'd see it being potentially contradictory still is the timing part. It seems to me that the timing of protein CAN be important. If you haven't eaten any protein within 3 hours or so before your workout, it seems that you'd benefit from BOTH protein and carbs post workout for recovery/muscle synthesis. If you've eaten protein within those 3 hours, then you don't need it again because it's already available to you -- so in that situation, you'd just need the carbs post-workout.
But, from what I'm reading from you, if I have this correct, is that you're saying it doesn't matter when you eat protein in the day -- whether it's 3 hours before working out of 9 hour before working out. The only timing that matters is carbs. And, for me, that's the part I don't agree with and doesn't seem to gel with research I've read. If you have any to support this contention, I'd love to see it.
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Yes!! Try total soy!! It tasts amazing and helped me loose weight. I dont use it as a meal replacement. I use it as a snack0
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lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »sheermomentum wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »The benefits of meal timing around lifting are so small that it almost certainly wouldn't be worth switching around calories unless the effort and impact on the rest of the day were trivial. If doing so made you hungry earlier or later in the day, for example, it wouldn't be advantageous to do.
THIS! If you want the protein drink, then have it but if you are getting a good amount of protein the rest of the day, then the shake is not going to significantly impact you in any way.lindsey1979 wrote: »You will improve your recovery if you eat a good deal of protein AND carbs post workout -- carbs create the insulingenic response to help shuttle nutrients (protein and vitamins and carbs) into cell for muscle building/recovery.
This is not how insulin works. It promotes the uptake of glucose from the bloodstream into cells, and it inhibits the production of glucose by the liver. It is not involved in protein metabolism/synthesis or in metabolic processes involving vitamins.
Per Lyle:
"When elevated (and I’d note here that while carbohydrate has the primary effect on raising insulin, protein also raises insulin; as well, the combination of protein and carbohydrate raises insulin more than either alone), insulin pushes nutrients into cells. So insulin stimulates glycogen storage in the liver, it also enhances glycogen storage in skeletal muscle. And while insulin isn’t that critically involved in protein synthesis per se, it does decrease protein breakdown; as discussed in The Protein Book, this is important for maximal increases in muscle mass. So far so good."
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/insulin-levels-and-fat-loss-qa.html/
Lyle is right, but it doesn't really matter here. At issue is timing. Protein takes a long time to digest (which is why eating it at the beginning of a workout won't help unless you are working out for a long time - 90 min. to 3 hours), which also means it doesn't elevate BG for a long time. Also, not all protein converts to BG (100% of net carbs does).
So while insulin might be assisting with the process to remove BG and create glycogen, you need to have something adding BG before it gets removed. That requires carbs. This is why you need to eat carbs right before / during your workout.
Yes, I generally agree with you. But, as he says in the other quote, eating BOTH protein and carbs post-workout appears to have the best effect (better than just protein or carbs alone) because of the increased insulin response (and obviously, having building blocks for glycogen and muscle synthesis). So if you've eaten some protein within 3 hours or so of the end of your work out, you're probably fine. But if it's longer than that (as it is for many of us), then you'd be better off adding some protein in there (whether BCAAs as you go or protein in your post-workout meal/recovery drink). Am I missing something there?
Yes, you are missing that when carbs and protein (and/or fat) are combined, then the digestion / BG increase from carbs is slowed.
Ideally, you would consume simple carbs before or during workouts because they will raise BG within 5-20 min. This is difficult for a lot of people because many of us will lose our cookies (pun intended) if we eat/drink right before working out. The next best thing is to consume carbs as soon as the workout is completed so it can add to BG without delay. Pairing it with protein causes a delay.
Well, that seems to contradict your previous agreement on the statement: "I'm going to stick with Lyle's explanation: " while protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone, the combination of the two will have the greatest impact on promoting muscle growth (as well as having other beneficial effects on muscle glycogen, etc)."
You said, absolutely, but now seem to be contradicting that and favoring a carb-only post workout meal/recovery. I'm trying to understand the difference.
If the idea is that you've eaten protein within 3 hours of the end of your workout so you don't need more post-workout, that I understand. But if you haven't eaten protein in the time frame, it seems that you both benefit the most from both carbs AND protein post-workout (or pre-workout if you can stomach it -- though, as you point out, most of us can't).
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Here is clarification on the 2 points:
"Yes, Absolutely!" - Explanation: Nobody should eat only carbs. Nobody should eat only protein.
"Timing is important." - Eat carbs immediately before or during (or immediately after) working out. Eat protein at other times, but not with those carbs.
Conclusion: Eat carbs right before, during, or immediately after working out. Eat protein earlier or later. At the end of the day, you should have eaten both carbs and protein.
How is that contradictory?
Thank you for the clarification. That helps. The only point where I'd see it being potentially contradictory still is the timing part. It seems to me that the timing of protein CAN be important. If you haven't eaten any protein within 3 hours or so before your workout, it seems that you'd benefit from BOTH protein and carbs post workout for recovery/muscle synthesis. If you've eaten protein within those 3 hours, then you don't need it again because it's already available to you -- so in that situation, you'd just need the carbs post-workout.
But, from what I'm reading from you, if I have this correct, is that you're saying it doesn't matter when you eat protein in the day -- whether it's 3 hours before working out of 9 hour before working out. The only timing that matters is carbs. And, for me, that's the part I don't agree with and doesn't seem to gel with research I've read. If you have any to support this contention, I'd love to see it.
Right... timing of protein doesn't matter with 1 exception - do not pair protein and/or fat with your pre/mid/post-workout carbs... ESPECIALLY POST-WORKOUT, because that slows digestion of carbs. Wait 15-20 minutes to get the carbs started on digestion, then go ahead and eat protein again. Aside from that exception (before/during/post-workout up to 20 min. to give your carbs a chance to absorb faster), go ahead and eat protein all day. Or eat all of your protein at once.0 -
Just drink half. 100 cals will almost always fit, and you probably used at least that during your workout.0
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midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »sheermomentum wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »The benefits of meal timing around lifting are so small that it almost certainly wouldn't be worth switching around calories unless the effort and impact on the rest of the day were trivial. If doing so made you hungry earlier or later in the day, for example, it wouldn't be advantageous to do.
THIS! If you want the protein drink, then have it but if you are getting a good amount of protein the rest of the day, then the shake is not going to significantly impact you in any way.lindsey1979 wrote: »You will improve your recovery if you eat a good deal of protein AND carbs post workout -- carbs create the insulingenic response to help shuttle nutrients (protein and vitamins and carbs) into cell for muscle building/recovery.
This is not how insulin works. It promotes the uptake of glucose from the bloodstream into cells, and it inhibits the production of glucose by the liver. It is not involved in protein metabolism/synthesis or in metabolic processes involving vitamins.
Per Lyle:
"When elevated (and I’d note here that while carbohydrate has the primary effect on raising insulin, protein also raises insulin; as well, the combination of protein and carbohydrate raises insulin more than either alone), insulin pushes nutrients into cells. So insulin stimulates glycogen storage in the liver, it also enhances glycogen storage in skeletal muscle. And while insulin isn’t that critically involved in protein synthesis per se, it does decrease protein breakdown; as discussed in The Protein Book, this is important for maximal increases in muscle mass. So far so good."
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/insulin-levels-and-fat-loss-qa.html/
Lyle is right, but it doesn't really matter here. At issue is timing. Protein takes a long time to digest (which is why eating it at the beginning of a workout won't help unless you are working out for a long time - 90 min. to 3 hours), which also means it doesn't elevate BG for a long time. Also, not all protein converts to BG (100% of net carbs does).
So while insulin might be assisting with the process to remove BG and create glycogen, you need to have something adding BG before it gets removed. That requires carbs. This is why you need to eat carbs right before / during your workout.
Yes, I generally agree with you. But, as he says in the other quote, eating BOTH protein and carbs post-workout appears to have the best effect (better than just protein or carbs alone) because of the increased insulin response (and obviously, having building blocks for glycogen and muscle synthesis). So if you've eaten some protein within 3 hours or so of the end of your work out, you're probably fine. But if it's longer than that (as it is for many of us), then you'd be better off adding some protein in there (whether BCAAs as you go or protein in your post-workout meal/recovery drink). Am I missing something there?
Yes, you are missing that when carbs and protein (and/or fat) are combined, then the digestion / BG increase from carbs is slowed.
Ideally, you would consume simple carbs before or during workouts because they will raise BG within 5-20 min. This is difficult for a lot of people because many of us will lose our cookies (pun intended) if we eat/drink right before working out. The next best thing is to consume carbs as soon as the workout is completed so it can add to BG without delay. Pairing it with protein causes a delay.
Well, that seems to contradict your previous agreement on the statement: "I'm going to stick with Lyle's explanation: " while protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone, the combination of the two will have the greatest impact on promoting muscle growth (as well as having other beneficial effects on muscle glycogen, etc)."
You said, absolutely, but now seem to be contradicting that and favoring a carb-only post workout meal/recovery. I'm trying to understand the difference.
If the idea is that you've eaten protein within 3 hours of the end of your workout so you don't need more post-workout, that I understand. But if you haven't eaten protein in the time frame, it seems that you both benefit the most from both carbs AND protein post-workout (or pre-workout if you can stomach it -- though, as you point out, most of us can't).
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Here is clarification on the 2 points:
"Yes, Absolutely!" - Explanation: Nobody should eat only carbs. Nobody should eat only protein.
"Timing is important." - Eat carbs immediately before or during (or immediately after) working out. Eat protein at other times, but not with those carbs.
Conclusion: Eat carbs right before, during, or immediately after working out. Eat protein earlier or later. At the end of the day, you should have eaten both carbs and protein.
How is that contradictory?
Thank you for the clarification. That helps. The only point where I'd see it being potentially contradictory still is the timing part. It seems to me that the timing of protein CAN be important. If you haven't eaten any protein within 3 hours or so before your workout, it seems that you'd benefit from BOTH protein and carbs post workout for recovery/muscle synthesis. If you've eaten protein within those 3 hours, then you don't need it again because it's already available to you -- so in that situation, you'd just need the carbs post-workout.
But, from what I'm reading from you, if I have this correct, is that you're saying it doesn't matter when you eat protein in the day -- whether it's 3 hours before working out of 9 hour before working out. The only timing that matters is carbs. And, for me, that's the part I don't agree with and doesn't seem to gel with research I've read. If you have any to support this contention, I'd love to see it.
Right... timing of protein doesn't matter with 1 exception - do not pair protein and/or fat with your pre/mid/post-workout carbs... ESPECIALLY POST-WORKOUT, because that slows digestion of carbs. Wait 15-20 minutes to get the carbs started on digestion, then go ahead and eat protein again. Aside from that exception (before/during/post-workout up to 20 min. to give your carbs a chance to absorb faster), go ahead and eat protein all day. Or eat all of your protein at once.
Well, that's the part that's confusing to me. Per Lyle, you see a better response with both carbs and protein than carbs alone:
"The answer there is clearly protein alone which will be vastly superior to carbohydrate alone. Because while consuming carbohydrates will decrease protein breakdown, only protein will increase protein synthesis (and provide the building blocks for building new muscle)....
while protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone, the combination of the two will have the greatest impact on promoting muscle growth (as well as having other beneficial effects on muscle glycogen, etc).".
You seem to be totally disagreeing with Lyle here in that carbs only is the way to go during/after workout and I just haven't seen anyone recommend that before unless they've eaten protein within the prior 3 hours.
0 -
lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »sheermomentum wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »The benefits of meal timing around lifting are so small that it almost certainly wouldn't be worth switching around calories unless the effort and impact on the rest of the day were trivial. If doing so made you hungry earlier or later in the day, for example, it wouldn't be advantageous to do.
THIS! If you want the protein drink, then have it but if you are getting a good amount of protein the rest of the day, then the shake is not going to significantly impact you in any way.lindsey1979 wrote: »You will improve your recovery if you eat a good deal of protein AND carbs post workout -- carbs create the insulingenic response to help shuttle nutrients (protein and vitamins and carbs) into cell for muscle building/recovery.
This is not how insulin works. It promotes the uptake of glucose from the bloodstream into cells, and it inhibits the production of glucose by the liver. It is not involved in protein metabolism/synthesis or in metabolic processes involving vitamins.
Per Lyle:
"When elevated (and I’d note here that while carbohydrate has the primary effect on raising insulin, protein also raises insulin; as well, the combination of protein and carbohydrate raises insulin more than either alone), insulin pushes nutrients into cells. So insulin stimulates glycogen storage in the liver, it also enhances glycogen storage in skeletal muscle. And while insulin isn’t that critically involved in protein synthesis per se, it does decrease protein breakdown; as discussed in The Protein Book, this is important for maximal increases in muscle mass. So far so good."
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/insulin-levels-and-fat-loss-qa.html/
Lyle is right, but it doesn't really matter here. At issue is timing. Protein takes a long time to digest (which is why eating it at the beginning of a workout won't help unless you are working out for a long time - 90 min. to 3 hours), which also means it doesn't elevate BG for a long time. Also, not all protein converts to BG (100% of net carbs does).
So while insulin might be assisting with the process to remove BG and create glycogen, you need to have something adding BG before it gets removed. That requires carbs. This is why you need to eat carbs right before / during your workout.
Yes, I generally agree with you. But, as he says in the other quote, eating BOTH protein and carbs post-workout appears to have the best effect (better than just protein or carbs alone) because of the increased insulin response (and obviously, having building blocks for glycogen and muscle synthesis). So if you've eaten some protein within 3 hours or so of the end of your work out, you're probably fine. But if it's longer than that (as it is for many of us), then you'd be better off adding some protein in there (whether BCAAs as you go or protein in your post-workout meal/recovery drink). Am I missing something there?
Yes, you are missing that when carbs and protein (and/or fat) are combined, then the digestion / BG increase from carbs is slowed.
Ideally, you would consume simple carbs before or during workouts because they will raise BG within 5-20 min. This is difficult for a lot of people because many of us will lose our cookies (pun intended) if we eat/drink right before working out. The next best thing is to consume carbs as soon as the workout is completed so it can add to BG without delay. Pairing it with protein causes a delay.
Well, that seems to contradict your previous agreement on the statement: "I'm going to stick with Lyle's explanation: " while protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone, the combination of the two will have the greatest impact on promoting muscle growth (as well as having other beneficial effects on muscle glycogen, etc)."
You said, absolutely, but now seem to be contradicting that and favoring a carb-only post workout meal/recovery. I'm trying to understand the difference.
If the idea is that you've eaten protein within 3 hours of the end of your workout so you don't need more post-workout, that I understand. But if you haven't eaten protein in the time frame, it seems that you both benefit the most from both carbs AND protein post-workout (or pre-workout if you can stomach it -- though, as you point out, most of us can't).
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Here is clarification on the 2 points:
"Yes, Absolutely!" - Explanation: Nobody should eat only carbs. Nobody should eat only protein.
"Timing is important." - Eat carbs immediately before or during (or immediately after) working out. Eat protein at other times, but not with those carbs.
Conclusion: Eat carbs right before, during, or immediately after working out. Eat protein earlier or later. At the end of the day, you should have eaten both carbs and protein.
How is that contradictory?
Thank you for the clarification. That helps. The only point where I'd see it being potentially contradictory still is the timing part. It seems to me that the timing of protein CAN be important. If you haven't eaten any protein within 3 hours or so before your workout, it seems that you'd benefit from BOTH protein and carbs post workout for recovery/muscle synthesis. If you've eaten protein within those 3 hours, then you don't need it again because it's already available to you -- so in that situation, you'd just need the carbs post-workout.
But, from what I'm reading from you, if I have this correct, is that you're saying it doesn't matter when you eat protein in the day -- whether it's 3 hours before working out of 9 hour before working out. The only timing that matters is carbs. And, for me, that's the part I don't agree with and doesn't seem to gel with research I've read. If you have any to support this contention, I'd love to see it.
Right... timing of protein doesn't matter with 1 exception - do not pair protein and/or fat with your pre/mid/post-workout carbs... ESPECIALLY POST-WORKOUT, because that slows digestion of carbs. Wait 15-20 minutes to get the carbs started on digestion, then go ahead and eat protein again. Aside from that exception (before/during/post-workout up to 20 min. to give your carbs a chance to absorb faster), go ahead and eat protein all day. Or eat all of your protein at once.
Well, that's the part that's confusing to me. Per Lyle, you see a better response with both carbs and protein than carbs alone:
"The answer there is clearly protein alone which will be vastly superior to carbohydrate alone. Because while consuming carbohydrates will decrease protein breakdown, only protein will increase protein synthesis (and provide the building blocks for building new muscle)....
while protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone, the combination of the two will have the greatest impact on promoting muscle growth (as well as having other beneficial effects on muscle glycogen, etc).".
You seem to be totally disagreeing with Lyle here in that carbs only is the way to go during/after workout and I just haven't seen anyone recommend that before unless they've eaten protein within the prior 3 hours.
I'm not reading in Lyle's text quoted that he is saying protein and carbs both should be consumed before/during/immediately after workout. If he is saying that, then I totally disagree. As explained earlier, you need to boost your BG to provide a glucose source for glycogen storage. You need carbs to boost BG, and protein slows down digestion of carbs and conversion to glucose.0 -
I've been trying to find a healthy balance of cardio and strength training while maintaining a calorie deficit. On the days I do strength training my other half pushes me to drink a protein shake afterwards saying it will help my muscles recover faster. I can tell a difference the next day, my muscles aren't as sore - but I question if it is really that important since it adds about 200+ calories (gold standard protein, almond milk, 1 tablespoon chai seeds and a fruit / kale blend) and it's also late at night usually when I drink them.
What are other's thoughts on this? Do you think protein shakes help or hinder the weight loss process?
They way you are currently consuming it (at night) I would think has no added benefit for recovery. In addition, there's a ton of stuff in you shake that isn't protein. I have a feeling your "feeling better" the next day is either because you are consuming more calories than you typically do (are you in a pretty steep deficit?) or it's a placebo effect.
You have 3 options really:
1) live with the smaller deficit and keep them in your diet as is.
2) cut 200 calories from somewhere else to make them fit in your calorie goal.
3) skip the shakes.
It's really up to personal preference really.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »sheermomentum wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »The benefits of meal timing around lifting are so small that it almost certainly wouldn't be worth switching around calories unless the effort and impact on the rest of the day were trivial. If doing so made you hungry earlier or later in the day, for example, it wouldn't be advantageous to do.
THIS! If you want the protein drink, then have it but if you are getting a good amount of protein the rest of the day, then the shake is not going to significantly impact you in any way.lindsey1979 wrote: »You will improve your recovery if you eat a good deal of protein AND carbs post workout -- carbs create the insulingenic response to help shuttle nutrients (protein and vitamins and carbs) into cell for muscle building/recovery.
This is not how insulin works. It promotes the uptake of glucose from the bloodstream into cells, and it inhibits the production of glucose by the liver. It is not involved in protein metabolism/synthesis or in metabolic processes involving vitamins.
Per Lyle:
"When elevated (and I’d note here that while carbohydrate has the primary effect on raising insulin, protein also raises insulin; as well, the combination of protein and carbohydrate raises insulin more than either alone), insulin pushes nutrients into cells. So insulin stimulates glycogen storage in the liver, it also enhances glycogen storage in skeletal muscle. And while insulin isn’t that critically involved in protein synthesis per se, it does decrease protein breakdown; as discussed in The Protein Book, this is important for maximal increases in muscle mass. So far so good."
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/insulin-levels-and-fat-loss-qa.html/
Lyle is right, but it doesn't really matter here. At issue is timing. Protein takes a long time to digest (which is why eating it at the beginning of a workout won't help unless you are working out for a long time - 90 min. to 3 hours), which also means it doesn't elevate BG for a long time. Also, not all protein converts to BG (100% of net carbs does).
So while insulin might be assisting with the process to remove BG and create glycogen, you need to have something adding BG before it gets removed. That requires carbs. This is why you need to eat carbs right before / during your workout.
Yes, I generally agree with you. But, as he says in the other quote, eating BOTH protein and carbs post-workout appears to have the best effect (better than just protein or carbs alone) because of the increased insulin response (and obviously, having building blocks for glycogen and muscle synthesis). So if you've eaten some protein within 3 hours or so of the end of your work out, you're probably fine. But if it's longer than that (as it is for many of us), then you'd be better off adding some protein in there (whether BCAAs as you go or protein in your post-workout meal/recovery drink). Am I missing something there?
Yes, you are missing that when carbs and protein (and/or fat) are combined, then the digestion / BG increase from carbs is slowed.
Ideally, you would consume simple carbs before or during workouts because they will raise BG within 5-20 min. This is difficult for a lot of people because many of us will lose our cookies (pun intended) if we eat/drink right before working out. The next best thing is to consume carbs as soon as the workout is completed so it can add to BG without delay. Pairing it with protein causes a delay.
Well, that seems to contradict your previous agreement on the statement: "I'm going to stick with Lyle's explanation: " while protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone, the combination of the two will have the greatest impact on promoting muscle growth (as well as having other beneficial effects on muscle glycogen, etc)."
You said, absolutely, but now seem to be contradicting that and favoring a carb-only post workout meal/recovery. I'm trying to understand the difference.
If the idea is that you've eaten protein within 3 hours of the end of your workout so you don't need more post-workout, that I understand. But if you haven't eaten protein in the time frame, it seems that you both benefit the most from both carbs AND protein post-workout (or pre-workout if you can stomach it -- though, as you point out, most of us can't).
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Here is clarification on the 2 points:
"Yes, Absolutely!" - Explanation: Nobody should eat only carbs. Nobody should eat only protein.
"Timing is important." - Eat carbs immediately before or during (or immediately after) working out. Eat protein at other times, but not with those carbs.
Conclusion: Eat carbs right before, during, or immediately after working out. Eat protein earlier or later. At the end of the day, you should have eaten both carbs and protein.
How is that contradictory?
Thank you for the clarification. That helps. The only point where I'd see it being potentially contradictory still is the timing part. It seems to me that the timing of protein CAN be important. If you haven't eaten any protein within 3 hours or so before your workout, it seems that you'd benefit from BOTH protein and carbs post workout for recovery/muscle synthesis. If you've eaten protein within those 3 hours, then you don't need it again because it's already available to you -- so in that situation, you'd just need the carbs post-workout.
But, from what I'm reading from you, if I have this correct, is that you're saying it doesn't matter when you eat protein in the day -- whether it's 3 hours before working out of 9 hour before working out. The only timing that matters is carbs. And, for me, that's the part I don't agree with and doesn't seem to gel with research I've read. If you have any to support this contention, I'd love to see it.
Right... timing of protein doesn't matter with 1 exception - do not pair protein and/or fat with your pre/mid/post-workout carbs... ESPECIALLY POST-WORKOUT, because that slows digestion of carbs. Wait 15-20 minutes to get the carbs started on digestion, then go ahead and eat protein again. Aside from that exception (before/during/post-workout up to 20 min. to give your carbs a chance to absorb faster), go ahead and eat protein all day. Or eat all of your protein at once.
Well, that's the part that's confusing to me. Per Lyle, you see a better response with both carbs and protein than carbs alone:
"The answer there is clearly protein alone which will be vastly superior to carbohydrate alone. Because while consuming carbohydrates will decrease protein breakdown, only protein will increase protein synthesis (and provide the building blocks for building new muscle)....
while protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone, the combination of the two will have the greatest impact on promoting muscle growth (as well as having other beneficial effects on muscle glycogen, etc).".
You seem to be totally disagreeing with Lyle here in that carbs only is the way to go during/after workout and I just haven't seen anyone recommend that before unless they've eaten protein within the prior 3 hours.
I'm not reading in Lyle's text quoted that he is saying protein and carbs both should be consumed before/during/immediately after workout. If he is saying that, then I totally disagree. As explained earlier, you need to boost your BG to provide a glucose source for glycogen storage. You need carbs to boost BG, and protein slows down digestion of carbs and conversion to glucose.
Okay, gotcha. I think there is the fundamental area of disagreement. Thanks for the clarification.
0 -
lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »sheermomentum wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »The benefits of meal timing around lifting are so small that it almost certainly wouldn't be worth switching around calories unless the effort and impact on the rest of the day were trivial. If doing so made you hungry earlier or later in the day, for example, it wouldn't be advantageous to do.
THIS! If you want the protein drink, then have it but if you are getting a good amount of protein the rest of the day, then the shake is not going to significantly impact you in any way.lindsey1979 wrote: »You will improve your recovery if you eat a good deal of protein AND carbs post workout -- carbs create the insulingenic response to help shuttle nutrients (protein and vitamins and carbs) into cell for muscle building/recovery.
This is not how insulin works. It promotes the uptake of glucose from the bloodstream into cells, and it inhibits the production of glucose by the liver. It is not involved in protein metabolism/synthesis or in metabolic processes involving vitamins.
Per Lyle:
"When elevated (and I’d note here that while carbohydrate has the primary effect on raising insulin, protein also raises insulin; as well, the combination of protein and carbohydrate raises insulin more than either alone), insulin pushes nutrients into cells. So insulin stimulates glycogen storage in the liver, it also enhances glycogen storage in skeletal muscle. And while insulin isn’t that critically involved in protein synthesis per se, it does decrease protein breakdown; as discussed in The Protein Book, this is important for maximal increases in muscle mass. So far so good."
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/insulin-levels-and-fat-loss-qa.html/
Lyle is right, but it doesn't really matter here. At issue is timing. Protein takes a long time to digest (which is why eating it at the beginning of a workout won't help unless you are working out for a long time - 90 min. to 3 hours), which also means it doesn't elevate BG for a long time. Also, not all protein converts to BG (100% of net carbs does).
So while insulin might be assisting with the process to remove BG and create glycogen, you need to have something adding BG before it gets removed. That requires carbs. This is why you need to eat carbs right before / during your workout.
Yes, I generally agree with you. But, as he says in the other quote, eating BOTH protein and carbs post-workout appears to have the best effect (better than just protein or carbs alone) because of the increased insulin response (and obviously, having building blocks for glycogen and muscle synthesis). So if you've eaten some protein within 3 hours or so of the end of your work out, you're probably fine. But if it's longer than that (as it is for many of us), then you'd be better off adding some protein in there (whether BCAAs as you go or protein in your post-workout meal/recovery drink). Am I missing something there?
Yes, you are missing that when carbs and protein (and/or fat) are combined, then the digestion / BG increase from carbs is slowed.
Ideally, you would consume simple carbs before or during workouts because they will raise BG within 5-20 min. This is difficult for a lot of people because many of us will lose our cookies (pun intended) if we eat/drink right before working out. The next best thing is to consume carbs as soon as the workout is completed so it can add to BG without delay. Pairing it with protein causes a delay.
Well, that seems to contradict your previous agreement on the statement: "I'm going to stick with Lyle's explanation: " while protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone, the combination of the two will have the greatest impact on promoting muscle growth (as well as having other beneficial effects on muscle glycogen, etc)."
You said, absolutely, but now seem to be contradicting that and favoring a carb-only post workout meal/recovery. I'm trying to understand the difference.
If the idea is that you've eaten protein within 3 hours of the end of your workout so you don't need more post-workout, that I understand. But if you haven't eaten protein in the time frame, it seems that you both benefit the most from both carbs AND protein post-workout (or pre-workout if you can stomach it -- though, as you point out, most of us can't).
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Here is clarification on the 2 points:
"Yes, Absolutely!" - Explanation: Nobody should eat only carbs. Nobody should eat only protein.
"Timing is important." - Eat carbs immediately before or during (or immediately after) working out. Eat protein at other times, but not with those carbs.
Conclusion: Eat carbs right before, during, or immediately after working out. Eat protein earlier or later. At the end of the day, you should have eaten both carbs and protein.
How is that contradictory?
Thank you for the clarification. That helps. The only point where I'd see it being potentially contradictory still is the timing part. It seems to me that the timing of protein CAN be important. If you haven't eaten any protein within 3 hours or so before your workout, it seems that you'd benefit from BOTH protein and carbs post workout for recovery/muscle synthesis. If you've eaten protein within those 3 hours, then you don't need it again because it's already available to you -- so in that situation, you'd just need the carbs post-workout.
But, from what I'm reading from you, if I have this correct, is that you're saying it doesn't matter when you eat protein in the day -- whether it's 3 hours before working out of 9 hour before working out. The only timing that matters is carbs. And, for me, that's the part I don't agree with and doesn't seem to gel with research I've read. If you have any to support this contention, I'd love to see it.
Right... timing of protein doesn't matter with 1 exception - do not pair protein and/or fat with your pre/mid/post-workout carbs... ESPECIALLY POST-WORKOUT, because that slows digestion of carbs. Wait 15-20 minutes to get the carbs started on digestion, then go ahead and eat protein again. Aside from that exception (before/during/post-workout up to 20 min. to give your carbs a chance to absorb faster), go ahead and eat protein all day. Or eat all of your protein at once.
Well, that's the part that's confusing to me. Per Lyle, you see a better response with both carbs and protein than carbs alone:
"The answer there is clearly protein alone which will be vastly superior to carbohydrate alone. Because while consuming carbohydrates will decrease protein breakdown, only protein will increase protein synthesis (and provide the building blocks for building new muscle)....
while protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone, the combination of the two will have the greatest impact on promoting muscle growth (as well as having other beneficial effects on muscle glycogen, etc).".
You seem to be totally disagreeing with Lyle here in that carbs only is the way to go during/after workout and I just haven't seen anyone recommend that before unless they've eaten protein within the prior 3 hours.
I'm not reading in Lyle's text quoted that he is saying protein and carbs both should be consumed before/during/immediately after workout. If he is saying that, then I totally disagree. As explained earlier, you need to boost your BG to provide a glucose source for glycogen storage. You need carbs to boost BG, and protein slows down digestion of carbs and conversion to glucose.
Okay, gotcha. I think there is the fundamental area of disagreement. Thanks for the clarification.
Yes, and digestion / glucose absorption may be a factor Lyle has either accidentally missed or has intentionally overlooked in order to promote greater protein consumption, with the expectation that protein consumption would be too low otherwise and that getting enough protein is more important than a small delay in BG effect. I'm going off of the assumption that one is getting enough protein otherwise and there is no need to add more protein consumption.0 -
I've been trying to find a healthy balance of cardio and strength training while maintaining a calorie deficit. On the days I do strength training my other half pushes me to drink a protein shake afterwards saying it will help my muscles recover faster. I can tell a difference the next day, my muscles aren't as sore - but I question if it is really that important since it adds about 200+ calories (gold standard protein, almond milk, 1 tablespoon chai seeds and a fruit / kale blend) and it's also late at night usually when I drink them.
What are other's thoughts on this? Do you think protein shakes help or hinder the weight loss process?
I like a protein shake after I work out because I'm hungry and it's convenient. I can easily budget for those 200 calories - if you cannot, how about a half a shake?
0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »sheermomentum wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »The benefits of meal timing around lifting are so small that it almost certainly wouldn't be worth switching around calories unless the effort and impact on the rest of the day were trivial. If doing so made you hungry earlier or later in the day, for example, it wouldn't be advantageous to do.
THIS! If you want the protein drink, then have it but if you are getting a good amount of protein the rest of the day, then the shake is not going to significantly impact you in any way.lindsey1979 wrote: »You will improve your recovery if you eat a good deal of protein AND carbs post workout -- carbs create the insulingenic response to help shuttle nutrients (protein and vitamins and carbs) into cell for muscle building/recovery.
This is not how insulin works. It promotes the uptake of glucose from the bloodstream into cells, and it inhibits the production of glucose by the liver. It is not involved in protein metabolism/synthesis or in metabolic processes involving vitamins.
Per Lyle:
"When elevated (and I’d note here that while carbohydrate has the primary effect on raising insulin, protein also raises insulin; as well, the combination of protein and carbohydrate raises insulin more than either alone), insulin pushes nutrients into cells. So insulin stimulates glycogen storage in the liver, it also enhances glycogen storage in skeletal muscle. And while insulin isn’t that critically involved in protein synthesis per se, it does decrease protein breakdown; as discussed in The Protein Book, this is important for maximal increases in muscle mass. So far so good."
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/insulin-levels-and-fat-loss-qa.html/
Lyle is right, but it doesn't really matter here. At issue is timing. Protein takes a long time to digest (which is why eating it at the beginning of a workout won't help unless you are working out for a long time - 90 min. to 3 hours), which also means it doesn't elevate BG for a long time. Also, not all protein converts to BG (100% of net carbs does).
So while insulin might be assisting with the process to remove BG and create glycogen, you need to have something adding BG before it gets removed. That requires carbs. This is why you need to eat carbs right before / during your workout.
Yes, I generally agree with you. But, as he says in the other quote, eating BOTH protein and carbs post-workout appears to have the best effect (better than just protein or carbs alone) because of the increased insulin response (and obviously, having building blocks for glycogen and muscle synthesis). So if you've eaten some protein within 3 hours or so of the end of your work out, you're probably fine. But if it's longer than that (as it is for many of us), then you'd be better off adding some protein in there (whether BCAAs as you go or protein in your post-workout meal/recovery drink). Am I missing something there?
Yes, you are missing that when carbs and protein (and/or fat) are combined, then the digestion / BG increase from carbs is slowed.
Ideally, you would consume simple carbs before or during workouts because they will raise BG within 5-20 min. This is difficult for a lot of people because many of us will lose our cookies (pun intended) if we eat/drink right before working out. The next best thing is to consume carbs as soon as the workout is completed so it can add to BG without delay. Pairing it with protein causes a delay.
Well, that seems to contradict your previous agreement on the statement: "I'm going to stick with Lyle's explanation: " while protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone, the combination of the two will have the greatest impact on promoting muscle growth (as well as having other beneficial effects on muscle glycogen, etc)."
You said, absolutely, but now seem to be contradicting that and favoring a carb-only post workout meal/recovery. I'm trying to understand the difference.
If the idea is that you've eaten protein within 3 hours of the end of your workout so you don't need more post-workout, that I understand. But if you haven't eaten protein in the time frame, it seems that you both benefit the most from both carbs AND protein post-workout (or pre-workout if you can stomach it -- though, as you point out, most of us can't).
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Here is clarification on the 2 points:
"Yes, Absolutely!" - Explanation: Nobody should eat only carbs. Nobody should eat only protein.
"Timing is important." - Eat carbs immediately before or during (or immediately after) working out. Eat protein at other times, but not with those carbs.
Conclusion: Eat carbs right before, during, or immediately after working out. Eat protein earlier or later. At the end of the day, you should have eaten both carbs and protein.
How is that contradictory?
Thank you for the clarification. That helps. The only point where I'd see it being potentially contradictory still is the timing part. It seems to me that the timing of protein CAN be important. If you haven't eaten any protein within 3 hours or so before your workout, it seems that you'd benefit from BOTH protein and carbs post workout for recovery/muscle synthesis. If you've eaten protein within those 3 hours, then you don't need it again because it's already available to you -- so in that situation, you'd just need the carbs post-workout.
But, from what I'm reading from you, if I have this correct, is that you're saying it doesn't matter when you eat protein in the day -- whether it's 3 hours before working out of 9 hour before working out. The only timing that matters is carbs. And, for me, that's the part I don't agree with and doesn't seem to gel with research I've read. If you have any to support this contention, I'd love to see it.
Right... timing of protein doesn't matter with 1 exception - do not pair protein and/or fat with your pre/mid/post-workout carbs... ESPECIALLY POST-WORKOUT, because that slows digestion of carbs. Wait 15-20 minutes to get the carbs started on digestion, then go ahead and eat protein again. Aside from that exception (before/during/post-workout up to 20 min. to give your carbs a chance to absorb faster), go ahead and eat protein all day. Or eat all of your protein at once.
Well, that's the part that's confusing to me. Per Lyle, you see a better response with both carbs and protein than carbs alone:
"The answer there is clearly protein alone which will be vastly superior to carbohydrate alone. Because while consuming carbohydrates will decrease protein breakdown, only protein will increase protein synthesis (and provide the building blocks for building new muscle)....
while protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone, the combination of the two will have the greatest impact on promoting muscle growth (as well as having other beneficial effects on muscle glycogen, etc).".
You seem to be totally disagreeing with Lyle here in that carbs only is the way to go during/after workout and I just haven't seen anyone recommend that before unless they've eaten protein within the prior 3 hours.
I'm not reading in Lyle's text quoted that he is saying protein and carbs both should be consumed before/during/immediately after workout. If he is saying that, then I totally disagree. As explained earlier, you need to boost your BG to provide a glucose source for glycogen storage. You need carbs to boost BG, and protein slows down digestion of carbs and conversion to glucose.
Okay, gotcha. I think there is the fundamental area of disagreement. Thanks for the clarification.
Yes, and digestion / glucose absorption may be a factor Lyle has either accidentally missed or has intentionally overlooked in order to promote greater protein consumption, with the expectation that protein consumption would be too low otherwise and that getting enough protein is more important than a small delay in BG effect. I'm going off of the assumption that one is getting enough protein otherwise and there is no need to add more protein consumption.
I doubt he intentionally overlooked it. Unless the research has changed since he wrote that article, he looked at (1) carbs-only post-workout nutrition, (2) protein-only post-workout nutrition and the (3) carbs and protein post-workout nutrition. From what he shows, carbs only was the worst choice for muscle synthesis (i.e. recovery). Protein was second or as he said, "protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone." But the best by far was one with both protein and carbs.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-growth-and-post-workout-nutrition.html/
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lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »sheermomentum wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »The benefits of meal timing around lifting are so small that it almost certainly wouldn't be worth switching around calories unless the effort and impact on the rest of the day were trivial. If doing so made you hungry earlier or later in the day, for example, it wouldn't be advantageous to do.
THIS! If you want the protein drink, then have it but if you are getting a good amount of protein the rest of the day, then the shake is not going to significantly impact you in any way.lindsey1979 wrote: »You will improve your recovery if you eat a good deal of protein AND carbs post workout -- carbs create the insulingenic response to help shuttle nutrients (protein and vitamins and carbs) into cell for muscle building/recovery.
This is not how insulin works. It promotes the uptake of glucose from the bloodstream into cells, and it inhibits the production of glucose by the liver. It is not involved in protein metabolism/synthesis or in metabolic processes involving vitamins.
Per Lyle:
"When elevated (and I’d note here that while carbohydrate has the primary effect on raising insulin, protein also raises insulin; as well, the combination of protein and carbohydrate raises insulin more than either alone), insulin pushes nutrients into cells. So insulin stimulates glycogen storage in the liver, it also enhances glycogen storage in skeletal muscle. And while insulin isn’t that critically involved in protein synthesis per se, it does decrease protein breakdown; as discussed in The Protein Book, this is important for maximal increases in muscle mass. So far so good."
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/insulin-levels-and-fat-loss-qa.html/
Lyle is right, but it doesn't really matter here. At issue is timing. Protein takes a long time to digest (which is why eating it at the beginning of a workout won't help unless you are working out for a long time - 90 min. to 3 hours), which also means it doesn't elevate BG for a long time. Also, not all protein converts to BG (100% of net carbs does).
So while insulin might be assisting with the process to remove BG and create glycogen, you need to have something adding BG before it gets removed. That requires carbs. This is why you need to eat carbs right before / during your workout.
Yes, I generally agree with you. But, as he says in the other quote, eating BOTH protein and carbs post-workout appears to have the best effect (better than just protein or carbs alone) because of the increased insulin response (and obviously, having building blocks for glycogen and muscle synthesis). So if you've eaten some protein within 3 hours or so of the end of your work out, you're probably fine. But if it's longer than that (as it is for many of us), then you'd be better off adding some protein in there (whether BCAAs as you go or protein in your post-workout meal/recovery drink). Am I missing something there?
Yes, you are missing that when carbs and protein (and/or fat) are combined, then the digestion / BG increase from carbs is slowed.
Ideally, you would consume simple carbs before or during workouts because they will raise BG within 5-20 min. This is difficult for a lot of people because many of us will lose our cookies (pun intended) if we eat/drink right before working out. The next best thing is to consume carbs as soon as the workout is completed so it can add to BG without delay. Pairing it with protein causes a delay.
Well, that seems to contradict your previous agreement on the statement: "I'm going to stick with Lyle's explanation: " while protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone, the combination of the two will have the greatest impact on promoting muscle growth (as well as having other beneficial effects on muscle glycogen, etc)."
You said, absolutely, but now seem to be contradicting that and favoring a carb-only post workout meal/recovery. I'm trying to understand the difference.
If the idea is that you've eaten protein within 3 hours of the end of your workout so you don't need more post-workout, that I understand. But if you haven't eaten protein in the time frame, it seems that you both benefit the most from both carbs AND protein post-workout (or pre-workout if you can stomach it -- though, as you point out, most of us can't).
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Here is clarification on the 2 points:
"Yes, Absolutely!" - Explanation: Nobody should eat only carbs. Nobody should eat only protein.
"Timing is important." - Eat carbs immediately before or during (or immediately after) working out. Eat protein at other times, but not with those carbs.
Conclusion: Eat carbs right before, during, or immediately after working out. Eat protein earlier or later. At the end of the day, you should have eaten both carbs and protein.
How is that contradictory?
Thank you for the clarification. That helps. The only point where I'd see it being potentially contradictory still is the timing part. It seems to me that the timing of protein CAN be important. If you haven't eaten any protein within 3 hours or so before your workout, it seems that you'd benefit from BOTH protein and carbs post workout for recovery/muscle synthesis. If you've eaten protein within those 3 hours, then you don't need it again because it's already available to you -- so in that situation, you'd just need the carbs post-workout.
But, from what I'm reading from you, if I have this correct, is that you're saying it doesn't matter when you eat protein in the day -- whether it's 3 hours before working out of 9 hour before working out. The only timing that matters is carbs. And, for me, that's the part I don't agree with and doesn't seem to gel with research I've read. If you have any to support this contention, I'd love to see it.
Right... timing of protein doesn't matter with 1 exception - do not pair protein and/or fat with your pre/mid/post-workout carbs... ESPECIALLY POST-WORKOUT, because that slows digestion of carbs. Wait 15-20 minutes to get the carbs started on digestion, then go ahead and eat protein again. Aside from that exception (before/during/post-workout up to 20 min. to give your carbs a chance to absorb faster), go ahead and eat protein all day. Or eat all of your protein at once.
Well, that's the part that's confusing to me. Per Lyle, you see a better response with both carbs and protein than carbs alone:
"The answer there is clearly protein alone which will be vastly superior to carbohydrate alone. Because while consuming carbohydrates will decrease protein breakdown, only protein will increase protein synthesis (and provide the building blocks for building new muscle)....
while protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone, the combination of the two will have the greatest impact on promoting muscle growth (as well as having other beneficial effects on muscle glycogen, etc).".
You seem to be totally disagreeing with Lyle here in that carbs only is the way to go during/after workout and I just haven't seen anyone recommend that before unless they've eaten protein within the prior 3 hours.
I'm not reading in Lyle's text quoted that he is saying protein and carbs both should be consumed before/during/immediately after workout. If he is saying that, then I totally disagree. As explained earlier, you need to boost your BG to provide a glucose source for glycogen storage. You need carbs to boost BG, and protein slows down digestion of carbs and conversion to glucose.
Okay, gotcha. I think there is the fundamental area of disagreement. Thanks for the clarification.
Yes, and digestion / glucose absorption may be a factor Lyle has either accidentally missed or has intentionally overlooked in order to promote greater protein consumption, with the expectation that protein consumption would be too low otherwise and that getting enough protein is more important than a small delay in BG effect. I'm going off of the assumption that one is getting enough protein otherwise and there is no need to add more protein consumption.
I doubt he intentionally overlooked it. Unless the research has changed since he wrote that article, he looked at (1) carbs-only post-workout nutrition, (2) protein-only post-workout nutrition and the (3) carbs and protein post-workout nutrition. From what he shows, carbs only was the worst choice for muscle synthesis (i.e. recovery). Protein was second or as he said, "protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone." But the best by far was one with both protein and carbs.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-growth-and-post-workout-nutrition.html/
I believe you are misreading the article:Simply, if sufficient carbohydrate is given following training, adding protein has no further benefit in terms of promoting glycogen re-synthesis.
The article agrees with my point about glycogen replenishment. It later goes on to discuss protein synthesis. Still, he doesn't address my point about converting carbs into glucose quickly.
This article agrees with what I'm saying with the exception of whether protein is eaten at the exact same time as carbs or whether protein should be held for another 15-20 min. Early on in the article, when discussing glycogen, he agrees with my point. Later, he becomes a bit more vague about exact timing and more specific about the reason behind it. Then his reasoning supports my point to use protein later, but he fails to even acknowledge the decrease in carb digestion when paired with protein.
All in all, there really isn't anything he and I disagree about... there is just a point I'm making that he is not addressing at all. If he were to address it, maybe we would agree and maybe we would disagree - who knows?0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »sheermomentum wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »The benefits of meal timing around lifting are so small that it almost certainly wouldn't be worth switching around calories unless the effort and impact on the rest of the day were trivial. If doing so made you hungry earlier or later in the day, for example, it wouldn't be advantageous to do.
THIS! If you want the protein drink, then have it but if you are getting a good amount of protein the rest of the day, then the shake is not going to significantly impact you in any way.lindsey1979 wrote: »You will improve your recovery if you eat a good deal of protein AND carbs post workout -- carbs create the insulingenic response to help shuttle nutrients (protein and vitamins and carbs) into cell for muscle building/recovery.
This is not how insulin works. It promotes the uptake of glucose from the bloodstream into cells, and it inhibits the production of glucose by the liver. It is not involved in protein metabolism/synthesis or in metabolic processes involving vitamins.
Per Lyle:
"When elevated (and I’d note here that while carbohydrate has the primary effect on raising insulin, protein also raises insulin; as well, the combination of protein and carbohydrate raises insulin more than either alone), insulin pushes nutrients into cells. So insulin stimulates glycogen storage in the liver, it also enhances glycogen storage in skeletal muscle. And while insulin isn’t that critically involved in protein synthesis per se, it does decrease protein breakdown; as discussed in The Protein Book, this is important for maximal increases in muscle mass. So far so good."
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/insulin-levels-and-fat-loss-qa.html/
Lyle is right, but it doesn't really matter here. At issue is timing. Protein takes a long time to digest (which is why eating it at the beginning of a workout won't help unless you are working out for a long time - 90 min. to 3 hours), which also means it doesn't elevate BG for a long time. Also, not all protein converts to BG (100% of net carbs does).
So while insulin might be assisting with the process to remove BG and create glycogen, you need to have something adding BG before it gets removed. That requires carbs. This is why you need to eat carbs right before / during your workout.
Yes, I generally agree with you. But, as he says in the other quote, eating BOTH protein and carbs post-workout appears to have the best effect (better than just protein or carbs alone) because of the increased insulin response (and obviously, having building blocks for glycogen and muscle synthesis). So if you've eaten some protein within 3 hours or so of the end of your work out, you're probably fine. But if it's longer than that (as it is for many of us), then you'd be better off adding some protein in there (whether BCAAs as you go or protein in your post-workout meal/recovery drink). Am I missing something there?
Yes, you are missing that when carbs and protein (and/or fat) are combined, then the digestion / BG increase from carbs is slowed.
Ideally, you would consume simple carbs before or during workouts because they will raise BG within 5-20 min. This is difficult for a lot of people because many of us will lose our cookies (pun intended) if we eat/drink right before working out. The next best thing is to consume carbs as soon as the workout is completed so it can add to BG without delay. Pairing it with protein causes a delay.
Well, that seems to contradict your previous agreement on the statement: "I'm going to stick with Lyle's explanation: " while protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone, the combination of the two will have the greatest impact on promoting muscle growth (as well as having other beneficial effects on muscle glycogen, etc)."
You said, absolutely, but now seem to be contradicting that and favoring a carb-only post workout meal/recovery. I'm trying to understand the difference.
If the idea is that you've eaten protein within 3 hours of the end of your workout so you don't need more post-workout, that I understand. But if you haven't eaten protein in the time frame, it seems that you both benefit the most from both carbs AND protein post-workout (or pre-workout if you can stomach it -- though, as you point out, most of us can't).
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Here is clarification on the 2 points:
"Yes, Absolutely!" - Explanation: Nobody should eat only carbs. Nobody should eat only protein.
"Timing is important." - Eat carbs immediately before or during (or immediately after) working out. Eat protein at other times, but not with those carbs.
Conclusion: Eat carbs right before, during, or immediately after working out. Eat protein earlier or later. At the end of the day, you should have eaten both carbs and protein.
How is that contradictory?
Thank you for the clarification. That helps. The only point where I'd see it being potentially contradictory still is the timing part. It seems to me that the timing of protein CAN be important. If you haven't eaten any protein within 3 hours or so before your workout, it seems that you'd benefit from BOTH protein and carbs post workout for recovery/muscle synthesis. If you've eaten protein within those 3 hours, then you don't need it again because it's already available to you -- so in that situation, you'd just need the carbs post-workout.
But, from what I'm reading from you, if I have this correct, is that you're saying it doesn't matter when you eat protein in the day -- whether it's 3 hours before working out of 9 hour before working out. The only timing that matters is carbs. And, for me, that's the part I don't agree with and doesn't seem to gel with research I've read. If you have any to support this contention, I'd love to see it.
Right... timing of protein doesn't matter with 1 exception - do not pair protein and/or fat with your pre/mid/post-workout carbs... ESPECIALLY POST-WORKOUT, because that slows digestion of carbs. Wait 15-20 minutes to get the carbs started on digestion, then go ahead and eat protein again. Aside from that exception (before/during/post-workout up to 20 min. to give your carbs a chance to absorb faster), go ahead and eat protein all day. Or eat all of your protein at once.
Well, that's the part that's confusing to me. Per Lyle, you see a better response with both carbs and protein than carbs alone:
"The answer there is clearly protein alone which will be vastly superior to carbohydrate alone. Because while consuming carbohydrates will decrease protein breakdown, only protein will increase protein synthesis (and provide the building blocks for building new muscle)....
while protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone, the combination of the two will have the greatest impact on promoting muscle growth (as well as having other beneficial effects on muscle glycogen, etc).".
You seem to be totally disagreeing with Lyle here in that carbs only is the way to go during/after workout and I just haven't seen anyone recommend that before unless they've eaten protein within the prior 3 hours.
I'm not reading in Lyle's text quoted that he is saying protein and carbs both should be consumed before/during/immediately after workout. If he is saying that, then I totally disagree. As explained earlier, you need to boost your BG to provide a glucose source for glycogen storage. You need carbs to boost BG, and protein slows down digestion of carbs and conversion to glucose.
Okay, gotcha. I think there is the fundamental area of disagreement. Thanks for the clarification.
Yes, and digestion / glucose absorption may be a factor Lyle has either accidentally missed or has intentionally overlooked in order to promote greater protein consumption, with the expectation that protein consumption would be too low otherwise and that getting enough protein is more important than a small delay in BG effect. I'm going off of the assumption that one is getting enough protein otherwise and there is no need to add more protein consumption.
I doubt he intentionally overlooked it. Unless the research has changed since he wrote that article, he looked at (1) carbs-only post-workout nutrition, (2) protein-only post-workout nutrition and the (3) carbs and protein post-workout nutrition. From what he shows, carbs only was the worst choice for muscle synthesis (i.e. recovery). Protein was second or as he said, "protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone." But the best by far was one with both protein and carbs.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-growth-and-post-workout-nutrition.html/
I believe you are misreading the article:Simply, if sufficient carbohydrate is given following training, adding protein has no further benefit in terms of promoting glycogen re-synthesis.
The article agrees with my point about glycogen replenishment. It later goes on to discuss protein synthesis. Still, he doesn't address my point about converting carbs into glucose quickly.
This article agrees with what I'm saying with the exception of whether protein is eaten at the exact same time as carbs or whether protein should be held for another 15-20 min. Early on in the article, when discussing glycogen, he agrees with my point. Later, he becomes a bit more vague about exact timing and more specific about the reason behind it. Then his reasoning supports my point to use protein later, but he fails to even acknowledge the decrease in carb digestion when paired with protein.
All in all, there really isn't anything he and I disagree about... there is just a point I'm making that he is not addressing at all. If he were to address it, maybe we would agree and maybe we would disagree - who knows?
Perhaps we're just looking at this from a different perspective. I agree with you on glycogen re-synthesis, but I was looking at it from the perspective of recovery for muscle growth that you'd see in weight training versus recovery aimed more at endurance athletes (which Lyle differentiates at the beginning of the article) not the more narrow issue of glycogen re-synthesis alone.
And from how I read it, protein stimulates protein synthesis with no impact on protein breakdown while carbs inhibit protein breakdown with no impact on protein synthesis. The combination of the two is ideal for muscle growth after heavy lifting. That's why the overwhelming conclusion is that both carbs and protein are best for post-workout nutrition for protein synthesis/muscle growth. But, yes, I will agree with you that he didn't get into the specificity of the decrease in carb digestion when paired with protein.
I think your points about timing and glycogen re-synthesis may not be as widely applicable to this situation specifically. Not that they're incorrect, just not as applicable given the goals. I was speaking from the very beginning about what is best for recovery after lifting heavy, so we may have been at cross purposes.
Thank you for the respectful discussion -- I very much appreciate it.
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lindsey1979 wrote: »You will improve your recovery if you eat a good deal of protein AND carbs post workout -- carbs create the insulingenic response to help shuttle nutrients (protein and vitamins and carbs) into cell for muscle building/recovery. Maximizing recovery is where you build muscle/LBM. If you're not maximizing your recovery, you're wasting some of your effort in lifting heavy in the first place.
If it's putting you over your daily calorie goal, I highly recommend you switching your calories during the day to accommodate this. Also, hitting protein goals is important. A good rule of thumb is 1 g per 1 lb LBM. This has been shown to preserve LBM in a caloric deficit -- so you keep as much of your muscle as possible and lose fat.
Very few people eat too much protein. If you need to make room, cut back on your carbs or fat. I personally have a hard time most days hitting my protein goals without a shake to supplement -- because it's just a lot of meat to eat.
^^^^
This best response out of the bunch, right on the money.
Your goal is to lose "fat" not necessarily weight. So you want muscle, and to preserve muscle hitting your protein is crucial.
Post workout "whey" protein is really the best because it metabolizes much quicker than "real food" protein and the nutrients can get to where they need to be.
As far as "timing" (late at night) doesnt matter. In fact a slow digesting protein such as casein is actually really good to have before bedtime fast.
So def keep up the shakes
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ShellyBell999 wrote: »IIFIYM
Agree. Could you make it with water and leave out the fruit and seeds and almond milk? Probably would be 110 -160 calories instead of 200+.0
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