Is running hindering my fat loss?!
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Just want to point out that a quick Google search turned up plenty articles that debunk the cardio-in-women-leads-to-T3-and-thyroid-issues idea. Doing a little more digging, it seems pretty clear the author of the article you read seriously misunderstood pretty much every study he claimed to read.
So it seems doubtful that your running is the cause of the problem in that specific way. I'd think the water weight is a likely culprit, as the poster above explained. In another comment you mention you eat out "once a day or less" - once a day is actually a lot of opportunity to get calories wrong. Even with otherwise great logging, that could add a lot of extra calories and cut into your deficit.0 -
I'd be very surprised if running is decreasing your metabolism aka as the causal factor. If your CO is being reduced, I imagine it is by something else...thyroid, etc. I also do think that the muscle inflammation/water weight might be an issue, but I don't think it is as big as you may want to think. I get some inflammation the day after my long run, but then it is gone a day or two later. I am only training for a half, so I know there is a difference in the mileage load, but I would be surprised. I do run 20-30 miles a week and get in close to 25K steps per day. My metabolism is chugging along like a mofo.
Once the race is over, I would invest in the $40 to get some tests done to see if anything physically is going on with you. The interwebs make horrible doctors. (For years I didn't have health insurance and every time I tried to use the web....I was pretty sure I was dying from a bajillion different things
)
Since we have similar activity levels, if you don't mind me asking, how much are you eating to maintain or lose? I know our requirements will be different due to different physical stats, but I just want to make sure my TDEE estimate isn't totally off.
And yes, I think getting tests done will definitely give me peace of mind. It's all speculation until then!0 -
christinev297 wrote: »@LaurenAOK I cant help with your question, but I just wanted to say that I would kill to have your stomach!
No need to kill anyone. CICO works fine. 0 -
I am training for a half marathon and I am losing weight. It helped jump start me into losing weight but when I added weight training, then my loss stalled. Now I am strictly doing cardio until the half marathon in November. I am also hypothyroid and have been for years. I plateaued for almost a year and even after I cut my calories back by 250 calories, it still took another 4 months before I started losing. I also log every day and eat out rarely, usually once a month. I have lost 5 pounds since last March. It is a slow loss but the scale hadn't moved for me in a year. So I was pretty excited. I am nearly 5'4 and 140 pounds is my goal weight, the high end of normal weight. How skinny do you want to get? If you lost 5 more pounds, you would be in the middle of the normal weight chart, just saying.0
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Just want to point out that a quick Google search turned up plenty articles that debunk the cardio-in-women-leads-to-T3-and-thyroid-issues idea. Doing a little more digging, it seems pretty clear the author of the article you read seriously misunderstood pretty much every study he claimed to read.
So it seems doubtful that your running is the cause of the problem in that specific way. I'd think the water weight is a likely culprit, as the poster above explained. In another comment you mention you eat out "once a day or less" - once a day is actually a lot of opportunity to get calories wrong. Even with otherwise great logging, that could add a lot of extra calories and cut into your deficit.
Hmmm I tried Google searching it, I guess I just didn't search the right thing. That is good to know though, thanks for checking it out! I think in my free time I'll take a look at the studies - just haven't had a chance to yet, too busy with school haha. But it sounds like the author was not very good at interpreting them. That helps a lot with my question actually, as I was mainly trying to figure out how legit this author/article was.0 -
I am training for a half marathon and I am losing weight. It helped jump start me into losing weight but when I added weight training, then my loss stalled. Now I am strictly doing cardio until the half marathon in November. I am also hypothyroid and have been for years. I plateaued for almost a year and even after I cut my calories back by 250 calories, it still took another 4 months before I started losing. I also log every day and eat out rarely, usually once a month. I have lost 5 pounds since last March. It is a slow loss but the scale hadn't moved for me in a year. So I was pretty excited. I am nearly 5'4 and 140 pounds is my goal weight, the high end of normal weight. How skinny do you want to get? If you lost 5 more pounds, you would be in the middle of the normal weight chart, just saying.
Great info, thanks! I really only want to lose 5-10 more pounds. At my lowest adult weight I was 125, which was great, but I have a lot more muscle now (yay lifting!). I think I would look just as good or better now at 130-135. Again, I'm about 22% body fat - and I want to get down to about 18%. That could require losing only a few pounds if I keep my muscle up.0 -
... I also think it's not that uncommon to see runners who are overweight. That could definitely be a simple CICO thing, but this article has me wondering if I there's more to it for some people.
OP, thanks for asking this question. It intrigues me as I consider training for longer races,, but I just have to comment on the overweight runners thing. Yes, I've been surprised to see them in my training groups-heck, I'm one of them-but you can't really make any generalizations about them because you don't know how overweight they were before the started running. I may still be an overweight runner, but I was even more overweight before I started running! ;D
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rileysowner wrote: »I cannot really help, but I have several people in my friends list here who did marathons. Every one of them would usually lose no problem, but when training, they maintained or gained a few pounds. As I recall, most if not all of them lost again after the race, and the pre-race training, were finished.
See, this is what is so interesting to me. Of course it's possible that, like some posters on here have said, they were simply overeating to compensate for all the extra activity. But if they were using MFP before, during, and post-training, it's not like they knew how to log correctly before training but not during! It just doesn't make sense to me that weight loss would stall during training from a purely CICO perspective.3dogsrunning wrote: »I would have suggested cutting calories a bit to see how it went but with 6 weeks to go, that probably isn't the ideal time to start doing that. Especially if you struggled with some runs.
I think you're right, I would love to decrease cals for experimental purposes but I don't think it's a good idea right now. I guess I will have to deal with being stalled at least until the race, then I can play around with cals and see what happens. Just sucks because I was hoping to be down to around 18-20% body fat by now. I'm going to comic con next month as Princess Jasmine and I wanted my stomach to look awesome
cwolfman13 wrote: »most likely you are underestimating your intake. training vs working out is pretty rigorous...I usually put on a couple of pounds when I'm actively training for a bike race simply for the fact that I need to eat a certain amount just for proper recovery. I've never lost weight while actively training...it's very difficult to keep calories in check when you're working at that level of effort.
i personally think you're eating a bit more than you think...enough to maintain...500 calories is pretty easy to underestimate.
^^^^This.
It's pretty typical for people to either maintain or gain when training for a marathon. The training is grueling and your body tends to crave the foods especially after the long runs. Your body needs the food for the recovery that needs to happen in order to keep up the pace that you need to as part of the training.
I tend to give the advice to people who are training for a long race to focus on the race and then when it is all said and done, focus on weight loss. I've never done a marathon mainly because I don't want to commit to that level of training, but if I did....my goal would not be to lose weight at the same time.
I definitely get what you are saying and I think it's great advice not to focus on weight loss while training for something so big - I should have thought of that before! What just doesn't make sense to me is that, it shouldn't matter how much I crave extra food to compensate for the training - as long as I'm logging accurately and keeping my cals in check, by most people's account I should be losing weight. It's not like I'm seeing 150g of food on the food scale and going "well I ran a lot today, so I'll just log it as 100g." (Not saying that's what you're implying - just giving an example of how this is confusing to me). Literally the only food I don't weigh is when I eat out, which is generally once a day or less, and I find it really hard to believe that those cals are overestimated THAT much... I usually get a meal of around 600 calories, so it would have to be DOUBLE what I think it is in order for it to put me far enough over my calorie goal to ruin my deficit. And, I know I keep saying this, but I have always worked frequent restaurant meals into my calorie intake and it has never ruined my goals in the past.
By the way - I really appreciate all the replies here. You all have been super helpful and I don't want it to come off like I'm ignoring what you're saying or being argumentative. I think my mind is just kind of blown by seeing no progress after so much hard work.
Oh - and I would love to get my thyroid checked, but a doctor's visit/bloodwork is not in my budget right now, even for $40. I have to be extra careful with spending over the next couple of months, so the earliest I could get tested would be after the marathon.
Don't count out water retention. It can add huge amounts of weight. If I am not on the diuretic for my blood pressure, even eating the same calories my weight will go up, not just a pound or two, but the one time I ran out and didn't have any meds for 4-5 days, my weight went up 5-7 pounds. Got a refill on the scrip and the weight came off in two days. It was all water weight. With your training, you are stressing your body a great deal. Water will be retained to help deal with that. In other words, keep eating logging and maintaining the deficit you want, don't worry about the weight, and see what happens following the race. I am guessing weight will come off surprisingly fast.0 -
Being hypothyroid and on T3/T4 supplementation, I find it hard to believe that exercise can cause the endocrine system to malfunction like that. Some forms of hypothyroidism are an auto-immune disease and some are genetic. Mine runs in my family.
I didn't read the studies cited in the article, but did note they are all at least a decade old with some dating back into the 70s and 80s for publication dates. There has been a lot of research on hypothyroidism in the last ten years, including the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists lowering the threshold for hypothyroidism from a TSH of 5 to a TSH of 3.
OK, so I skimmed most of the first study. 10 rowers experienced decreases in T3, 7 rowers experienced no change. Not big participant numbers here. And there weren't enough rowers to find the change statistically significant. And "The hormone changes observed in the (-) responder rowers [the ones who showed a decrease in T3] were not significantly (P>0.05) correlated with changes in body composition or hydration status during the study." Soooo, this study did not show a relationship between decreased T3 and body composition, i.e. holding onto de fat. Not what the summary article that cited the study implied.
My biggest pet peeve is when people mis-represent research to support an idea. Which is what I feel is going on here in the article linked by OP. Totally not your fault, OP.
I'm not gonna lie. I gained 75-80 pounds when mine went out. It sucked. It took years to get my levels regulated into something that would allow me to function like a human being. It took years after that for me to lose weight. I experimented with diet and exercise. My macros are set to 35p/35c/30f. On an ideal day. I life heavy three times a week, run intervals three times a week, take a couple long walks a week. Try to get my 10,000 steps in outside of that. I weigh less now that I did before my thyroid went all wacky bo-bo. And I'm in better shape.
Every time I feel like I've gained a little, I go back to the diet. I tighten it up and I'm good. For me, it comes down to diet. Always. Maybe you could tweak your macros and meal timing a bit. I have to think it's diet and not that exercise is screwing up your metabolism. It just doesn't make sense to me--look at all those elite athletes who train for hours every day. They don't seem T3 deficient.0 -
Being hypothyroid and on T3/T4 supplementation, I find it hard to believe that exercise can cause the endocrine system to malfunction like that. Some forms of hypothyroidism are an auto-immune disease and some are genetic. Mine runs in my family.
I didn't read the studies cited in the article, but did note they are all at least a decade old with some dating back into the 70s and 80s for publication dates. There has been a lot of research on hypothyroidism in the last ten years, including the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists lowering the threshold for hypothyroidism from a TSH of 5 to a TSH of 3.
OK, so I skimmed most of the first study. 10 rowers experienced decreases in T3, 7 rowers experienced no change. Not big participant numbers here. And there weren't enough rowers to find the change statistically significant. And "The hormone changes observed in the (-) responder rowers [the ones who showed a decrease in T3] were not significantly (P>0.05) correlated with changes in body composition or hydration status during the study." Soooo, this study did not show a relationship between decreased T3 and body composition, i.e. holding onto de fat. Not what the summary article that cited the study implied.
My biggest pet peeve is when people mis-represent research to support an idea. Which is what I feel is going on here in the article linked by OP. Totally not your fault, OP.
I'm not gonna lie. I gained 75-80 pounds when mine went out. It sucked. It took years to get my levels regulated into something that would allow me to function like a human being. It took years after that for me to lose weight. I experimented with diet and exercise. My macros are set to 35p/35c/30f. On an ideal day. I life heavy three times a week, run intervals three times a week, take a couple long walks a week. Try to get my 10,000 steps in outside of that. I weigh less now that I did before my thyroid went all wacky bo-bo. And I'm in better shape.
Every time I feel like I've gained a little, I go back to the diet. I tighten it up and I'm good. For me, it comes down to diet. Always. Maybe you could tweak your macros and meal timing a bit. I have to think it's diet and not that exercise is screwing up your metabolism. It just doesn't make sense to me--look at all those elite athletes who train for hours every day. They don't seem T3 deficient.
Awesome information, thank you for taking a look at a couple of the studies. I too hate it when information is misrepresented and now I feel a little stupid for not taking a closer look myself at first.
The good news is that I haven't really gained any weight, I'm just failing to lose it. That hopefully means I don't actually have a thyroid issue, as those seem to usually lead to weight gain. I think I will get it checked if I'm still not seeing progress after the race though, just in case.
Until then, I think I'm going to go with some theory of a combination of water retention/muscle stress inflammation and underestimating my intake. It's really hard to accept that I'm eating more than I think, especially since I don't feel fueled enough on my runs sometimes. But I think a lot of posters are right that that is the most logical explanation.
It's kind of frustrating because that means the only way to fix the problem is to basically stop eating out, since that's the only calorie variable I don't control. With my schedule and lifestyle right now, I really can't see that happening. Perhaps though, if I reduce my calorie goal after the marathon, it will make enough of a difference that I can see progress even without cutting out the fast food.
I've also been forcing myself to meet my calorie goal some days - for example, today even, it's 11pm and I have 700 calories left. And I feel pretty satisfied already. But I would normally make a hefty protein shake and force it down since I know it's really important to fuel my body properly from all the running. But then again, maybe listening to my body would be better - if I'm feeling satisfied, should I really consume more? My only concern is how that would affect my energy on runs, which is already not where I want it to be.0 -
I'd be very surprised if running is decreasing your metabolism aka as the causal factor. If your CO is being reduced, I imagine it is by something else...thyroid, etc. I also do think that the muscle inflammation/water weight might be an issue, but I don't think it is as big as you may want to think. I get some inflammation the day after my long run, but then it is gone a day or two later. I am only training for a half, so I know there is a difference in the mileage load, but I would be surprised. I do run 20-30 miles a week and get in close to 25K steps per day. My metabolism is chugging along like a mofo.
Once the race is over, I would invest in the $40 to get some tests done to see if anything physically is going on with you. The interwebs make horrible doctors. (For years I didn't have health insurance and every time I tried to use the web....I was pretty sure I was dying from a bajillion different things )
Since we have similar activity levels, if you don't mind me asking, how much are you eating to maintain or lose? I know our requirements will be different due to different physical stats, but I just want to make sure my TDEE estimate isn't totally off.
And yes, I think getting tests done will definitely give me peace of mind. It's all speculation until then!
I'm 5'8" and currently weigh 144 lbs....sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. I am currently trying to maintain. My FitBit tells me my maintenance TDEE is about 2600 calories per day, on average. I've been undereating on most days because my head is having a hard time catching up with what maintenance actually means. I do tend to overeat on my long run days, so it kind of evens out...with a lost pound here or there.
When I was losing I ate about 1800 calories a day on average.
Thanks! 1800 seems so little to me with all the running... but if that's how much you ate to lose, and you're taller than me too, maybe that's more like where I should be. I probably won't adjust that drastically while training, but 6 weeks from now I'll be free from the clutches of the marathon and I can play around with it.0 -
Also and no one has mentioned it, if you are eating out once a day, then you are probably eating a lot of sodium. One of my mfp friends eats out quite often and her sodium levels are through the roof. How much water are you drinking? If your cells need water for metabolism plus the extra sodium in your diet, then it makes sense that you are retaining water. You are also very close to goal and your weight loss is really going to slow. I am about 6 or 7 pounds away from goal and I am thrilled to have lost 5 pounds in 6 months.0
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Also and no one has mentioned it, if you are eating out once a day, then you are probably eating a lot of sodium. One of my mfp friends eats out quite often and her sodium levels are through the roof. How much water are you drinking? If your cells need water for metabolism plus the extra sodium in your diet, then it makes sense that you are retaining water. You are also very close to goal and your weight loss is really going to slow. I am about 6 or 7 pounds away from goal and I am thrilled to have lost 5 pounds in 6 months.
Good call on the sodium. I don't track mine but I'm sure it is high. However, I do drink a ton of water - somewhere close to a gallon a day. But you also made me realize I eat a lot of carbs, which can cause water retention too. I try to eat 200-300g carbs per day for running purposes. I kind of have a feeling that if I cut down carbs after the marathon to what I used to eat (I think like 100-200g per day) I might see a loss of a couple pounds right away just from that.0 -
If you're eating out, try something they can't sneak a lot of extra fat on or into. Salad with dressing on the side. Grilled fish/chicken. Extra veggies.
What about carbs like quinoa? A lot of bang for your buck. Fiber and protein, too.0 -
If you don't feel hungry, don't force it. I find that if I'm not hungry, but still need more fuel, my body will tell me, even if it is the next day.
That said, sometimes that translates to sore muscles if I lack protein. On intense days, I try to eat more protein dense foods, but not more food than I feel like I need. Or, if I am really not hungry, but need protein, I like almond milk with cocoa, stevia, and raw egg/egg whites. Not super filling, but tasty, with a good dose of protein.0 -
christinev297 wrote: »@LaurenAOK I cant help with your question, but I just wanted to say that I would kill to have your stomach!
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I've seen it time & again, it's actually rather common not to lose weight (fat) with tons of running. Running more isn't the answer, neither is "just eat less". You need to start a structured strength program. The couple days a week circuit training isn't cutting it obviously.0
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cwolfman13 wrote: »most likely you are underestimating your intake. training vs working out is pretty rigorous...I usually put on a couple of pounds when I'm actively training for a bike race simply for the fact that I need to eat a certain amount just for proper recovery. I've never lost weight while actively training...it's very difficult to keep calories in check when you're working at that level of effort.
i personally think you're eating a bit more than you think...enough to maintain...500 calories is pretty easy to underestimate.
All of this.
Your are putting your body under high amounts of stress which it will seek to guard against or recover from through a number of mechanisms which include unconscious food seeking behaviours. Your body isn't stupid.
Lots of people will get sorely disappointed if they are using marathon training as a means to drop body fat primarily. That is why some people have a specific weight loss phase in their yearly plan which compromises performance in favour of dropping weight before they get into the meat of their training.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »most likely you are underestimating your intake. training vs working out is pretty rigorous...I usually put on a couple of pounds when I'm actively training for a bike race simply for the fact that I need to eat a certain amount just for proper recovery. I've never lost weight while actively training...it's very difficult to keep calories in check when you're working at that level of effort.
i personally think you're eating a bit more than you think...enough to maintain...500 calories is pretty easy to underestimate.
All of this.
Your are putting your body under high amounts of stress which it will seek to guard against or recover from through a number of mechanisms which include unconscious food seeking behaviours. Your body isn't stupid.
Lots of people will get sorely disappointed if they are using marathon training as a means to drop body fat primarily. That is why some people have a specific weight loss phase in their yearly plan which compromises performance in favour of dropping weight before they get into the meat of their training.
I will echo that steady weight loss and marathon training don't coexist.0
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