Why are macros important?

jacksonpt wrote: »

rybo wrote: »

They aren't as important as people make then out to be.

Agreed, though I think it depends on individual goals/expectations. I think.

Well, hitting 100+ grams of protein is more important if you lift. A sedentary person does not need that much. However, the minimum for dietary fat still stands for most people (unless obese). Dietary fat is crucial for a variety of body functions, notably hormone and brain health.

AJ_G wrote: »

Protein: 0.60-0.80 grams per pound of bodyweight -- the highest amount justified by research for active individuals.

Not necessarily the case, the scientifically found number is 0.82g per lb of body weight, exceeding that has no benefit for muscle synthesis, but also no negative effects either: http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

Dietary Fat: 0.40-0.45 grams per pound of bodyweight -- the lowest amount implied by clinical observation (unless obese).

Do you happen to have a link to a study for this?

For protein, that is why I gave a range.

0.80-0.82 g/lb. is the highest amount justified by research. I used a round figure. I doubt someone is going to lose muscle mass based on 3-4 grams of protein. A range of 0.60-0.80 g/lb. is sufficient.


Hope you're ready... here are the studies:

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0804748

Dietary protein for athletes: From requirements to optimum adaptation. Phillips SM, Van Loon LJ. J Sports Sci. 2011;29 Suppl 1:S29-38.

Tarnopolsky et al. (1992) observed no differences in whole body protein synthesis or indexes of lean body mass in strength athletes consuming either 0.64g/lb or 1.10g/lb over a 2 week period. Protein oxidation did increase in the high protein group, indicating a nutrient overload.

Walberg et al. (1988) found that 0.73g/lb was sufficient to maintain positive nitrogen balance in cutting weightlifters over a 7 day time period.

Tarnopolsky et al. (1988) found that only 0.37g/lb was required to maintain positive nitrogen balance in elite bodybuilders (over 5 years of experience, possible previous use of androgens) over a 10 day period. 0.45g/lb was sufficient to maintain lean body mass in bodybuilders over a 2 week period. The authors suggested that 0.55g/lb was sufficient for bodybuilders.

Lemon et al. (1992) found no differences in muscle mass or strength gains in novice bodybuilders consuming either 0.61g/lb or 1.19g/lb over a 4 week period. Based on nitrogen balance data, the authors recommended 0.75g/lb.

Hoffman et al. (2006) found no differences in body composition, strength or resting hormonal concentrations in strength athletes consuming either 0.77g/lb or >0.91g/lb over a 3 month period.

Effect of protein intake on strength, body composition and endocrine changes in strength/power athletes. Hoffman JR, Ratamess NA, Kang J, Falvo MJ, Faigenbaum AD. J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2006 Dec 13;3:12-8.

Macronutrient content of a hypoenergy diet affects nitrogen retention and muscle function in weight lifters. Walberg JL, Leidy MK, Sturgill DJ, Hinkle DE, Ritchey SJ, Sebolt DR. Int J Sports Med. 1988 Aug;9(4):261-6.

Protein requirements and muscle mass/strength changes during intensive training in novice bodybuilders. Lemon PW, Tarnopolsky MA, MacDougall JD, Atkinson SA. J Appl Physiol. 1992 Aug;73(2):767-75.

Influence of protein intake and training status on nitrogen balance and lean body mass. Tarnopolsky MA, MacDougall JD, Atkinson SA. J Appl Physiol. 1988 Jan;64(1):187-93.

Protein and amino acid metabolism during and after exercise and the effects of nutrition. Rennie MJ, Tipton KD. Annu Rev Nutr. 2000;20:457-83.

Hartman, J. W., Moore, D. R., & Phillips, S. M. (2006). Resistance training reduces whole-body protein turnover and improves net protein retention in untrained young males. Applied Physiology, Nutrition and Metabolism, 31, 557–564.

Moore, D. R., Del Bel, N. C., Nizi, K. I., Hartman, J. W., Tang, J. E., Armstrong, D. et al. (2007). Resistance training reduces fasted- and fed-state leucine turnover and increases dietary nitrogen retention in previously untrained young men. Journal of Nutrition, 137, 985–991.

Effects of exercise on dietary protein requirements. Lemon PW. Int J Sport Nutr. 1998 Dec;8(4):426-47.

Effects of high-calorie supplements on body composition and muscular strength following resistance training. Rozenek R, Ward P, Long S, Garhammer J. J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2002 Sep;42(3):340-7.

Increased protein maintains nitrogen balance during exercise-induced energy deficit. Pikosky MA, Smith TJ, Grediagin A, Castaneda-Sceppa C, Byerley L, Glickman EL, Young AJ. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2008 Mar;40(3):505-12.

Dietary carbohydrate-to-fat ratio: influence on whole-body nitrogen retention, substrate utilization, and hormone response in healthy male subjects. McCargar LJ, Clandinin MT, Belcastro AN, Walker K. Am J Clin Nutr. 1989 Jun;49(6):1169-78.

Macronutrient Intakes as Determinants of Dietary Protein and Amino Acid Adequacy. Millward, DJ. J. Nutr. June 1, 2004 vol. 134 no. 6 1588S-1596S.

High-Density Lipoprotein Cholesterol and Particle Concentrations, Carotid Atherosclerosis, and Coronary Events: Multi-Ethnic Study of Atherosclerosis (MESA) J Am Coll Cardiol 2012;60:508-16

Clinical Utility of Inflammatory Markers and Advanced Lipoprotein Testing: Advice from an Expert Panel of Lipid Specialists Journal of Clinical Lipidology, 2011;5(5);338-367

Clinical Implications of Discordance between Low-Density Lipoprotein Cholesterol and Particle Number: Multi-Ethnic Study of Atherosclerosis Journal of Clinical Lipidology, 2011;5(2);105-113

Underappreciated Opportunities for Low Density Lipoprotein Management in Patients with Cardiometabolic Risk Atherosclerosis. 2010;213:1-7

Position Statement from the AACC Lipoproteins and Vascular Diseases Division Working Group on Best Practices Clinical Chemistry. 2009;55:407-419

Low Density Lipoprotein and Apolipoprotein B: Clinical Use in Patients with Coronary Heart Disease Current Cardiology Reports. 2009;11:468-475

Lipoprotein Management in Patients with Cardiometabolic Risk: Consensus Statement from the American Diabetes Association and the American College of Cardiology Foundation Diabetes Care 2008;31(4);811-812

LDL Particle Number and Risk of Future Cardiovascular Disease in the Framingham Offspring Study – Implications for LDL Management J Clin Lipidology. 2007;1:583-592

Low-Density Lipoprotein and High-Density Lipoprotein Particle Subclass Predict Coronary Events and are Favorably Changed by Gemfibrozil Thearpy in the veterans Affairs High-Density Lipoprotein Intervention Trial Circulation. 2006;113:1556-1563

Shai I, et al. Weight loss with a low-carbohydrate, mediterranean, or low-fat diet. N Engl J Med 2008;359(3);229–41.

Gardner CD, et al. Comparison of the Atkins, Zone, Ornish, and learn Diets for Change in Weight and Related Risk Factors Among Overweight Premenopausal Women. The a to z Weight Loss Study: A Randomized Trial. JAMA. 2007;297:969–977.

Brehm BJ, et al. A Randomized Trial Comparing a Very Low Carbohydrate Diet and a Calorie-Restricted Low Fat Diet on Body Weight and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in Healthy Women. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2003;88:1617–1623.

Samaha FF, et al. A Low-Carbohydrate as Compared with a Low-Fat Diet in Severe Obesity. N Engl J Med 2003;348:2074–81.

Sondike SB, et al. Effects of a low-carbohydrate diet on weight loss and cardiovascular risk factor in overweight adolescents. J Pediatr. 2003 Mar;142(3):253–8.

Aude YW, et al. The National Cholesterol Education Program Diet vs a Diet Lower in Carbohydrates and Higher in Protein and Monounsaturated Fat. A Randomized Trial. Arch Intern Med. 2004;164:2141–2146.

Volek JS, et al. Comparison of energy-restricted very low-carbohydrate and low-fat diets on weight loss and body composition in overweight men and women. Nutrition & Metabolism 2004, 1:13.

Yancy WS Jr, et al. A Low-Carbohydrate, Ketogenic Diet versus a Low-Fat Diet To Treat Obesity and Hyperlipidemia. A Randomized, Controlled Trial. Ann Intern Med. 2004;140:769–777.

Nichols-Richardsson SM, et al. Perceived Hunger Is Lower and Weight Loss Is Greater in Overweight Premenopausal Women Consuming a Low-Carbohydrate/High- Protein vs High-Carbohydrate/Low-Fat Diet. J Am Diet Assoc. 2005;105:1433–1437.

Krebs NF, et al. Efficacy and Safety of a High Protein, Low Carbohydrate Diet for Weight Loss in Severely Obese Adolescents. J Pediatr 2010;157:252-8.

Summer SS, et al. Adiponectin Changes in Relation to the Macronutrient Composition of a Weight-Loss Diet. Obesity (Silver Spring). 2011 Mar 31. [Epub ahead of print]

Halyburton AK, et al. Low- and high-carbohydrate weight-loss diets have similar effects on mood but not cognitive performance. Am J Clin Nutr 2007;86:580–7.

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Keogh JB, et al. Effects of weight loss from a very-low-carbohydrate diet on endothelial function and markers of cardiovascular disease risk in subjects with abdominal obesity. Am J Clin Nutr 2008;87:567–76.

Volek JS, et al. Carbohydrate Restriction has a More Favorable Impact on the Metabolic Syndrome than a Low Fat Diet. Lipids 2009;44:297–309.

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Westman EC, et al. The effect of a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a low- glycemic index diet on glycemic control in type 2 diabetes mellitus. Nutr. Metab (Lond.)2008 Dec 19;5:36.

becknomad wrote: »

Wow thanks for all these replies. I want to lose weight.SW: 213 CW: 204 GW: 147. I'm 36 and 5'5. I don't like weight lifting. I get bored... I would like to start rock climbing - would this be equivalent to a weight training program? I always hear that you use every muscle in your body when you climb. My MFP calories are 1500/day. I do cardio 4 times a week for 30-60 min. Typically my macros are 40% fat, 30% carbs and 30% protein. I like nuts.... Does this all sound fine or am I having too much fat? Does it even matter as long as I'm under my calorie goal??? I'm confused on the comments on how to "optimize" results by changing macro ratios... Thanks again for the help!!

Rock climbing is a good physical activity, but it won't exactly replace weight lifting. You will see yourself getting stronger through climbing, but it will be climbing oriented strength. They say you're working every muscle, but you won't be working every muscle to the fullest extent you can.

As far as macros, calculate them based on gram amounts, not based on a percentage or ratio of your total calorie intake. Ideal protein intake is 1g per lb of Lean Body Mass. This protein intake will optimize muscle synthesis. Dietary fat should be set at 0.35 to 0.4 grams per lb of total body weight. The rest of your calories can go to carbohydrates.

Anything where you use your muscles to move your body weight is considered a weight-bearing activity and is good for you. As a female, they are especially good to maintain bone mass and prevent osteoporosis. Many of them (walking, running, swimming, etc.) are also good for the cardiovascular system. Will you get the same look by rock climbing as you would by lifting? No. Do you WANT the same look? That is entirely up to you.

The best exercises are the ones that you will do.

Achaila wrote: »

I watch my macros more than I watch my calories. And I've lost 63 pounds so..i dont know. Must be a stupid thing to do amiright?!

Whatever method you use to reach your target calorie deficit is the right way for you to do it.

seska422 wrote: »

Achaila wrote: »

I watch my macros more than I watch my calories. And I've lost 63 pounds so..i dont know. Must be a stupid thing to do amiright?!

Watching your macros is watching your calories, just in a roundabout way.

You can watch calories while ignoring macros but you can't watch your macros without calories being controlled as well because calories are "baked in" to the macro values.

Great job on the weight loss!

While I agree with the sentiment of this post, and it certainly applies to the majority of MFPers...

It does depend on how you treat/view your macro goals. Some people treat them as limits, as in get close to but don't go over, in which case your post is correct. However, some other people treat protein (and sometimes fat) as minimums, as in hit or go over, but don't stay under... in which case it is very possible to go over your calorie goal while still hitting your macro goals.

jacksonpt wrote: »

seska422 wrote: »

Achaila wrote: »

I watch my macros more than I watch my calories. And I've lost 63 pounds so..i dont know. Must be a stupid thing to do amiright?!

Watching your macros is watching your calories, just in a roundabout way.

You can watch calories while ignoring macros but you can't watch your macros without calories being controlled as well because calories are "baked in" to the macro values.

Great job on the weight loss!

While I agree with the sentiment of this post, and it certainly applies to the majority of MFPers...

It does depend on how you treat/view your macro goals. Some people treat them as limits, as in get close to but don't go over, in which case your post is correct. However, some other people treat protein (and sometimes fat) as minimums, as in hit or go over, but don't stay under... in which case it is very possible to go over your calorie goal while still hitting your macro goals.

No, it's not.

The average active person who hits their protein and dietary fat minimums will still have several hundred calories to consume before any concerns of overeating.

Loose example:

80-130 grams protein = 320-520 calories
44-76 grams dietary fat = 396-684 calories

Total calories just from hitting protein and dietary fat minimums = 716-1204 cals

jacksonpt wrote: »

Yes you're right... for people who approach macros that way, you are correct (assuming we aren't talking abnormal carb intakes).

However, take this example -

macro goals:
protein: 125g minimum
fat: 50g minimum
carbs: 200g maximum.

Hitting those numbers exactly = 1750 cals, which is a reasonable intake for weight loss for many people.

However, in treating protein and fat as minimums, what happens when they go over? Let's say 165g protein and 75g fat, with the same 200g carbs. Now you're up to 2135 total cals. Still probably ok for many, but certainly not all of MFP. And those numbers aren't even that high... fats could very easily be higher than that, and total cals could easily hit 2500 or more, which would be problematic for many MFPers.

So...
- if you have goals for each of the 3 macros
- if you treat fat and protein as minimums

... it is VERY possible to go over total cals and be in a surplus.

No... It's still not.

You talked about macro minimums. Protein and dietary fat have minimums; carbs do not. Therefore, why are you including carbs in this mix?

The truth still stands: Most active individuals will not exceed roughly 700-1200 calories after fulfilling their protein and fat minimums. That gives them a ton of leeway for carbs, more protein, or more dietary fat before they even begin to overeat.


By the way, you'd have to be 275 lb. and not be obese to have 165 g protein as your minimum.