For all the vegans out there...

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  • rbiss
    rbiss Posts: 422 Member
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    Don't get hung up on labels. People go vegan and veggie for a variety of reasons. I think any reduction in animal consumption is a positive thing.
  • zinra
    zinra Posts: 31 Member
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    dopeysmelly wrote: »
    I eat plant-based 80% of the time with some fish and non-fat dairy. Purely for health reasons (serum cholesterol was high even after losing masses of weight, and I didn't want to go the drug route). I promised myself I'd eat cheese and meat once a month each so that I wouldn't feel like I was giving them up completely, but I'm finding that I've gotten so used to not having them that I forget. I just don't miss them.

    Now, the funny thing is that now I eat this way, I am finding my commitment isn't purely based on health reasons. I do care a great deal about the environment, and I'm not into animals in a big way, but I don't feel comfortable with the thoughts of animals being hurt to provide me with food.

    Honestly, I believe you should go with whatever you feel satisfies your values and you feel comfortable with, and I don't care about the labels so much. If I'm ordering in restaurants or for catering, I ask for vegan meals simply because it's easier than saying no meat, no cheese, no full-fat dairy etc..

    Yeah, when I don't want to use the word vegan and ask if there's any dairy in something, people freak out and immediately ask if I'm allergic.
  • vegangela_
    vegangela_ Posts: 154 Member
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    Anyone that claims to be vegan but then goes and eats meat isn't a vegan.
  • kommodevaran
    kommodevaran Posts: 17,890 Member
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    Traveler120 wrote: »
    kommodevaran wrote: »
    You can't be a part-time vegan, in much of the same way as you can't be almost pregnant.

    I really detest those useless labels, flexitarian, carnivorous, plant-based. Most people eat more plants than animals. Noone eats only meat. Some eat more plants, some eat more meat. We can eat everything that is edible and feel fine. We are ominvores. That is what omnivore means.
    So carnivore is a useless label but omnivore is not?

    Also, most people(that I know) don't eat more plants than animals. Typical diets involve eggs, butter, bacon, milk, yogurt for breakfast, and meat, fish, chicken for lunch and dinner. If you consider the percentage of calories, it's more of a meat-based diet. And when I was low-carb (which lots of people are), I'd avoid rice, potatoes, grains etc. In a typical meal of a small to medium skinless chicken breast (350 cals) and cauliflower (110 cals/pound), that's 3 times the calories of the veg if I were to eat an entire pound of cauliflower. That's huge. I usually ate half a lb at most in one meal so the ratio would be 6 to 1 in calories ie. meat-based, even though the veg occupied more space.

    And just because we're capable of eating everything edible, doesn't mean it's optimal for us. Some of us have lowered cholesterol by eating less animal products. Some doctors like C. Esselstyn use a plant-based diet to reverse heart disease in his patients. Dr. Neal Barnard uses it to reverse diabetes in his patients. The head of American College of Cardiology, Dr. Kim Williams used a vegan diet to lower his cholesterol and recommends it and plant-based diets to his patients as well.

    Do what works for you and use whatever label you see fit.

    Of course meat and animal products will provide the most calories for most people (who are not vegetarians), because they are more calorie dense. Cutting carbs to that extent we often see today, is not natural, it's a fad. Cholesterol in the blood does not correspond with dietary cholesterol, and any improvement of diet will improve health.

    Cats, wolves, and to a lesser extent dogs and bears, are carnivores. Humans' teeth and intestines, plus our evolutionary success, tells us that we can eat anything.
  • Traveler120
    Traveler120 Posts: 712 Member
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    kommodevaran wrote: »
    Traveler120 wrote: »
    kommodevaran wrote: »
    You can't be a part-time vegan, in much of the same way as you can't be almost pregnant.

    I really detest those useless labels, flexitarian, carnivorous, plant-based. Most people eat more plants than animals. Noone eats only meat. Some eat more plants, some eat more meat. We can eat everything that is edible and feel fine. We are ominvores. That is what omnivore means.
    So carnivore is a useless label but omnivore is not?

    Also, most people(that I know) don't eat more plants than animals. Typical diets involve eggs, butter, bacon, milk, yogurt for breakfast, and meat, fish, chicken for lunch and dinner. If you consider the percentage of calories, it's more of a meat-based diet. And when I was low-carb (which lots of people are), I'd avoid rice, potatoes, grains etc. In a typical meal of a small to medium skinless chicken breast (350 cals) and cauliflower (110 cals/pound), that's 3 times the calories of the veg if I were to eat an entire pound of cauliflower. That's huge. I usually ate half a lb at most in one meal so the ratio would be 6 to 1 in calories ie. meat-based, even though the veg occupied more space.

    And just because we're capable of eating everything edible, doesn't mean it's optimal for us. Some of us have lowered cholesterol by eating less animal products. Some doctors like C. Esselstyn use a plant-based diet to reverse heart disease in his patients. Dr. Neal Barnard uses it to reverse diabetes in his patients. The head of American College of Cardiology, Dr. Kim Williams used a vegan diet to lower his cholesterol and recommends it and plant-based diets to his patients as well.

    Do what works for you and use whatever label you see fit.

    Of course meat and animal products will provide the most calories for most people (who are not vegetarians), because they are more calorie dense. Cutting carbs to that extent we often see today, is not natural, it's a fad. Cholesterol in the blood does not correspond with dietary cholesterol, and any improvement of diet will improve health.

    Cats, wolves, and to a lesser extent dogs and bears, are carnivores. Humans' teeth and intestines, plus our evolutionary success, tells us that we can eat anything.

    Umm, are you really comparing us to cats, wolves and dogs? Everybody knows our closest animal relatives are Chimpanzees and Bonobos (we share 99% of DNA). Have you looked at a smiling chimp lately?
    478486611-300x300.jpg

    Look familiar? It's like looking in the mirror, lol. They're omnivores like us, yes, but how much animal food do they really eat even with their longer canines? 1.4% meat and 4.2% insects. Everything else is plant food. http://www.wildchimps.org/wcf/english/files/chimp4.htm

    Compare that to carnivores.
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTH_EIFi2cevvOscyMK9y9dVg-mdt3Bazrzo9vWa5-0cbGwHufo
    Not even close!

    Short story: Yes we're omnivores. We're capable of eating meat. You want to eat lots of meat or little to no meat? Do what you like. Live and let live.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited September 2015
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    Traveler120 wrote: »
    kommodevaran wrote: »
    You can't be a part-time vegan, in much of the same way as you can't be almost pregnant.

    I really detest those useless labels, flexitarian, carnivorous, plant-based. Most people eat more plants than animals. Noone eats only meat. Some eat more plants, some eat more meat. We can eat everything that is edible and feel fine. We are ominvores. That is what omnivore means.
    So carnivore is a useless label but omnivore is not?

    Also, most people(that I know) don't eat more plants than animals.

    Average macro breakdown in the US is around 50% carbs, 15% protein, and 35% fat. Lots of that fat isn't animal fat, so that's more plants than animals for most people.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited September 2015
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    Traveler120 wrote: »
    kommodevaran wrote: »
    Traveler120 wrote: »
    kommodevaran wrote: »
    You can't be a part-time vegan, in much of the same way as you can't be almost pregnant.

    I really detest those useless labels, flexitarian, carnivorous, plant-based. Most people eat more plants than animals. Noone eats only meat. Some eat more plants, some eat more meat. We can eat everything that is edible and feel fine. We are ominvores. That is what omnivore means.
    So carnivore is a useless label but omnivore is not?

    Also, most people(that I know) don't eat more plants than animals. Typical diets involve eggs, butter, bacon, milk, yogurt for breakfast, and meat, fish, chicken for lunch and dinner. If you consider the percentage of calories, it's more of a meat-based diet. And when I was low-carb (which lots of people are), I'd avoid rice, potatoes, grains etc. In a typical meal of a small to medium skinless chicken breast (350 cals) and cauliflower (110 cals/pound), that's 3 times the calories of the veg if I were to eat an entire pound of cauliflower. That's huge. I usually ate half a lb at most in one meal so the ratio would be 6 to 1 in calories ie. meat-based, even though the veg occupied more space.

    And just because we're capable of eating everything edible, doesn't mean it's optimal for us. Some of us have lowered cholesterol by eating less animal products. Some doctors like C. Esselstyn use a plant-based diet to reverse heart disease in his patients. Dr. Neal Barnard uses it to reverse diabetes in his patients. The head of American College of Cardiology, Dr. Kim Williams used a vegan diet to lower his cholesterol and recommends it and plant-based diets to his patients as well.

    Do what works for you and use whatever label you see fit.

    Of course meat and animal products will provide the most calories for most people (who are not vegetarians), because they are more calorie dense. Cutting carbs to that extent we often see today, is not natural, it's a fad. Cholesterol in the blood does not correspond with dietary cholesterol, and any improvement of diet will improve health.

    Cats, wolves, and to a lesser extent dogs and bears, are carnivores. Humans' teeth and intestines, plus our evolutionary success, tells us that we can eat anything.

    Umm, are you really comparing us to cats, wolves and dogs?

    I believe kommodevaran was contrasting us with those animals, in that they are carnivores and we are not.

    My cat's diet should be very low carb (and the amount of carbs in many commercial cat foods is disturbing). I, however, need not eat a low carb diet, and in fact do well eating lots and lots of plants. (As a human, of course, I am an omnivore.)
  • kommodevaran
    kommodevaran Posts: 17,890 Member
    edited September 2015
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    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Traveler120 wrote: »
    kommodevaran wrote: »
    Traveler120 wrote: »
    kommodevaran wrote: »
    You can't be a part-time vegan, in much of the same way as you can't be almost pregnant.

    I really detest those useless labels, flexitarian, carnivorous, plant-based. Most people eat more plants than animals. Noone eats only meat. Some eat more plants, some eat more meat. We can eat everything that is edible and feel fine. We are ominvores. That is what omnivore means.
    So carnivore is a useless label but omnivore is not?

    Also, most people(that I know) don't eat more plants than animals. Typical diets involve eggs, butter, bacon, milk, yogurt for breakfast, and meat, fish, chicken for lunch and dinner. If you consider the percentage of calories, it's more of a meat-based diet. And when I was low-carb (which lots of people are), I'd avoid rice, potatoes, grains etc. In a typical meal of a small to medium skinless chicken breast (350 cals) and cauliflower (110 cals/pound), that's 3 times the calories of the veg if I were to eat an entire pound of cauliflower. That's huge. I usually ate half a lb at most in one meal so the ratio would be 6 to 1 in calories ie. meat-based, even though the veg occupied more space.

    And just because we're capable of eating everything edible, doesn't mean it's optimal for us. Some of us have lowered cholesterol by eating less animal products. Some doctors like C. Esselstyn use a plant-based diet to reverse heart disease in his patients. Dr. Neal Barnard uses it to reverse diabetes in his patients. The head of American College of Cardiology, Dr. Kim Williams used a vegan diet to lower his cholesterol and recommends it and plant-based diets to his patients as well.

    Do what works for you and use whatever label you see fit.

    Of course meat and animal products will provide the most calories for most people (who are not vegetarians), because they are more calorie dense. Cutting carbs to that extent we often see today, is not natural, it's a fad. Cholesterol in the blood does not correspond with dietary cholesterol, and any improvement of diet will improve health.

    Cats, wolves, and to a lesser extent dogs and bears, are carnivores. Humans' teeth and intestines, plus our evolutionary success, tells us that we can eat anything.

    Umm, are you really comparing us to cats, wolves and dogs?

    I believe kommodevaran was contrasting us with those animals, in that they are carnivores and we are not.

    My cat's diet should be very low carb (and the amount of carbs in many commercial cat foods is disturbing). I, however, need not eat a low carb diet, and in fact do well eating lots and lots of plants. (As a human, of course, I am an omnivore.)

    Yes - yes, that was what I did, I think :grin:

    Thinking about it, it's shocking that cat food contains grains. Cats are true carnivores. I have scars that prove that :D
  • kommodevaran
    kommodevaran Posts: 17,890 Member
    edited September 2015
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    And I do agree that chimpanzees are the animals that are most like us. I also think they'd eat more meat if they were better hunters or farmers, and could cook.
  • Kalikel
    Kalikel Posts: 9,626 Member
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    My cat likes to hunt, kill and eat lizards, birds and mice. Heads, eyes, fur, feet, all of it. Generally, she's eating lizards and Fancy Feast, because I don't let her out of the pool cage, but given the choice, she'd choose birds and mice.

    That's not how I want to eat. Not like a cat or a monkey or any animal. Because Ick.
  • the_log_lady
    the_log_lady Posts: 40 Member
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    Arguments about our teeth have the wrong end of the stick - were pigs designed to live their entire lives in darkened sheds in stalls where they can't turn around? Were male chicks, the unwanted byproduct of the egg industry, designed to be thrown alive into macerators at a day old? Were dogs designed to be skinned alive? ... yeah, I'll stop ... :hushed:
  • the_log_lady
    the_log_lady Posts: 40 Member
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    *sheepish smile* I do make a charming dinner guest, meat on the bbq or nay. It is a free country, right?

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