Is this too carb-heavy for keto?
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amusedmonkey wrote: »
Everyone is so different, huh?amusedmonkey wrote: »
Is she eating at a deficit? I think it's great that you're helping your sister, but if it was me and I knew it was temporary, I'd probably eat at maintenance. Keto flu AND calorie deficit at the same time? No thanks.amusedmonkey wrote: »Well then I'm guessing my meal would be alright. The hunger is something I can deal with if I get to have at least one satisfying meal every once in awhile. This is temporary anyway. Telling myself that I will get to have all the oatmeal and beans I'm craving in a couple of weeks keeps me sane and alright. The weird thing is that my sister is doing well eating nearly the same things...
Yes she is. You are probably right though. I could use 250 extra calories. The funny thing is that I'm usually not hungry at 1500 calories of my usual foods and full at 1700, so I thought by setting my calories to 1700 would be a comfortable keto experience.. not the case
The problem is that I'm used to large bulks of foods so switching to something more compact is a bit unusual. I consume more vegetables than anyone I know, of which at least 3 pounds daily from tomatoes.
Maybe you'd find an added 100-150 calories of vegetables and/or adding a fiber supplement would help. You might find ~35 net carbs easier, and I don't know that your sister would hold it against you if they were all vegetable carbs. 18g of fiber per day might not be enough for you when you're eating the denser foods. AND ~35 net carbs should still be enough to get you into ketosis, though you'd get there a little slower than ~20 net carbs.
This seems like a good idea. I really do believe that macro levels should be seen on a sliding scale, and the number you pick should be based on personal satiety. While keto works well for a lot of people, it's definitely not going to be right for everyone. I have several friends that find carbs more satiating than any other foods, so they eat relatively high carb.
Since very low carb doesn't seem to be going so well, perhaps try sticking it out for another few days, and then try bumping up your net carbs a little. Rinse and repeat until you find a happy medium between satiety and sticking to your calorie goal.
I do have a stupid question though; if you could easily stick to your 500 calorie deficit eating your "normal" foods, why the change to keto?
My sister is doing keto and asked me to do 2-3 weeks with her until she is in full ketosis and things are easier. Basically for support, to have something in common to talk about, and to take turns preparing main meals for both of us.
You're a good sister; I'm just trying to picture my brother's reaction if I asked him to do a diet with me... Since you have another 2-3 weeks on it, I agree with trying to up your fat if you can. Although, it appears that you will have to sacrifice something else because you're hitting your calorie goal at your current intake, right?
And just for comparison, how is your sister doing on the diet? Is she also hungry a lot, or is she adapting better?
I can afford to up it 250 more calories to maintenance. As for her, she is doing much better than me. She is even happy that she gets to have a steak whenever she wants. She loves meat (I don't). She was hungry for the first 4 days then she says she is not hungry anymore. She eats about 1300-1400 calories (her maintenance is at around 1800) and is doing fine with that. Some of the things she eats I can't due to preference, like steak, bacon, ground beef that is not "burgerized" and full of other flavors that disguise the meat, lamb, sea food...etc. Basically any meat that isn't a cold cut, chicken, burger or fish. We share lunch but have our own dinners.
Edit: it's gotten to the point where I'm considering water-fasting for 4-5 days to get into ketosis faster and stop being hungry.0 -
For those of you following Atkins, do you set a daily calorie limit? If so, what is it? I have done it in the past, but wasn't entirely successful- I think I was simply eating too much. I would like to try it again, as it always helps me get my eating under control.0
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amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »
Everyone is so different, huh?amusedmonkey wrote: »
Is she eating at a deficit? I think it's great that you're helping your sister, but if it was me and I knew it was temporary, I'd probably eat at maintenance. Keto flu AND calorie deficit at the same time? No thanks.amusedmonkey wrote: »Well then I'm guessing my meal would be alright. The hunger is something I can deal with if I get to have at least one satisfying meal every once in awhile. This is temporary anyway. Telling myself that I will get to have all the oatmeal and beans I'm craving in a couple of weeks keeps me sane and alright. The weird thing is that my sister is doing well eating nearly the same things...
Yes she is. You are probably right though. I could use 250 extra calories. The funny thing is that I'm usually not hungry at 1500 calories of my usual foods and full at 1700, so I thought by setting my calories to 1700 would be a comfortable keto experience.. not the case
The problem is that I'm used to large bulks of foods so switching to something more compact is a bit unusual. I consume more vegetables than anyone I know, of which at least 3 pounds daily from tomatoes.
Maybe you'd find an added 100-150 calories of vegetables and/or adding a fiber supplement would help. You might find ~35 net carbs easier, and I don't know that your sister would hold it against you if they were all vegetable carbs. 18g of fiber per day might not be enough for you when you're eating the denser foods. AND ~35 net carbs should still be enough to get you into ketosis, though you'd get there a little slower than ~20 net carbs.
This seems like a good idea. I really do believe that macro levels should be seen on a sliding scale, and the number you pick should be based on personal satiety. While keto works well for a lot of people, it's definitely not going to be right for everyone. I have several friends that find carbs more satiating than any other foods, so they eat relatively high carb.
Since very low carb doesn't seem to be going so well, perhaps try sticking it out for another few days, and then try bumping up your net carbs a little. Rinse and repeat until you find a happy medium between satiety and sticking to your calorie goal.
I do have a stupid question though; if you could easily stick to your 500 calorie deficit eating your "normal" foods, why the change to keto?
My sister is doing keto and asked me to do 2-3 weeks with her until she is in full ketosis and things are easier. Basically for support, to have something in common to talk about, and to take turns preparing main meals for both of us.
You're a good sister; I'm just trying to picture my brother's reaction if I asked him to do a diet with me... Since you have another 2-3 weeks on it, I agree with trying to up your fat if you can. Although, it appears that you will have to sacrifice something else because you're hitting your calorie goal at your current intake, right?
And just for comparison, how is your sister doing on the diet? Is she also hungry a lot, or is she adapting better?
I can afford to up it 250 more calories to maintenance. As for her, she is doing much better than me. She is even happy that she gets to have a steak whenever she wants. She loves meat (I don't). She was hungry for the first 4 days then she says she is not hungry anymore. She eats about 1300-1400 calories (her maintenance is at around 1800) and is doing fine with that. Some of the things she eats I can't due to preference, like steak, bacon, ground beef that is not "burgerized" and full of other flavors that disguise the meat, lamb, sea food...etc. Basically any meat that isn't a cold cut, chicken, burger or fish. We share lunch but have our own dinners.
Hm, interesting. Good luck with the next two weeks! Hopefully you can find a macro split that doesn't leave you hungry. If at the end of the 3 weeks you're still not feeling satiated, I'd suggest trying to add back some carbs and see how you do.0 -
Granted, I'm not a keto person, but while your lunch has a fair amount of carbs, it also seems that it has some decent fiber, and so your net carbs are at 20g for the day. This actually has me curious. For the keto-ers: does eating a "high carb" meal kick you out of keto?
Essentially I guess I'm asking the same thing as the OP; does nutrient timing matter if your overall daily carb goal is on track? Just curious for knowledge sake.
Also, OP, what is your daily calorie goal?
It won't necessarily kick you out, but dumping a lot of carbs or protein into your system all at once can spike blood sugar (your body will turn excess protein into glucose) and that can cause satiety issues.
Someone said on here a few days ago your body can even convert a high fat meal into glucose, but I haven't read that anywhere else, so I don't know. I still have a lot to learn.
Also, I don't see the total line on there, so OP is making me do math. It's way too early for math!
ee, you keto people are horrible asking all these math based questions!
Interesting about the blood sugar spike and satiety. So I'm guessing there are two solutions then, balance it out by adding more fat to that meal, or spread the carb load more evenly throughout the day in the future?
As for converting high fat meals to glucose, isn't that the point of keto in general? That fat will be broken down and used to make ketones which can then be used to provide glucose to the body as fuel. Or do you mean that excess fat (or at least an overload of it in one meal) is broken down into glucose and then the glucose is converted back to fat for storage? I'm seriously confused now. I know I should have studied harder in biochem...
The point of Keto is to switch the body from a primary glucose burning system to a ketone burning system. This reduces insulin production and presence in the body. Insulin allows cells to take in glucose from the blood for use as immediate energy needs, to replenish glycogen or to store as fat. Insulin can also create hunger feelings, particularly with sudden bursts or when there is too much.
Fat isn't metabolized into glucose, therefore you don't need insulin to take in its provided energy which comes in the form of ketones. Ketones are not broken down into glucose. The brain has a minimum daily need for glucose, but it's not a lot as it runs quite well on ketones and a ketogenic diet is being used to treat many brain related illnesses by doctors that are aware.
The period of time between your body being primarily a glucose burning system to being a ketone burning system is the adaption period. During that period your body will be looking for its usual source of energy, glucose, and when it's not available, you will likely feel hungry as you will be getting hormonal signals telling you that you need glucose. Especially as the glycogen is depleted. Once your glycogen is gone and you are providing your body with enough of its new energy source, it will become adapted and "used to" this new way. At this point, if not before, your hunger is typically reduced. We also need to realize that sometimes we say we are hungry because we want to eat out of boredom or due to a craving possibly.
OP, I'm looking at your total fat intake for the day and I don't feel like it's too low really, however, you start your day off much lower in fat. Your breakfast is pretty low calorie and not a lot of fat, then you have a snack before lunch, but that again is not much fat. I think you are very hungry mid day because you haven't provided enough of any energy, ketones being the new goal, so you need more fat in the morning specifically. Plus, of course, you probably aren't adapted... You're body is telling you to eat carbs still.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Granted, I'm not a keto person, but while your lunch has a fair amount of carbs, it also seems that it has some decent fiber, and so your net carbs are at 20g for the day. This actually has me curious. For the keto-ers: does eating a "high carb" meal kick you out of keto?
Essentially I guess I'm asking the same thing as the OP; does nutrient timing matter if your overall daily carb goal is on track? Just curious for knowledge sake.
Also, OP, what is your daily calorie goal?
It won't necessarily kick you out, but dumping a lot of carbs or protein into your system all at once can spike blood sugar (your body will turn excess protein into glucose) and that can cause satiety issues.
Someone said on here a few days ago your body can even convert a high fat meal into glucose, but I haven't read that anywhere else, so I don't know. I still have a lot to learn.
Also, I don't see the total line on there, so OP is making me do math. It's way too early for math!
ee, you keto people are horrible asking all these math based questions!
Interesting about the blood sugar spike and satiety. So I'm guessing there are two solutions then, balance it out by adding more fat to that meal, or spread the carb load more evenly throughout the day in the future?
As for converting high fat meals to glucose, isn't that the point of keto in general? That fat will be broken down and used to make ketones which can then be used to provide glucose to the body as fuel. Or do you mean that excess fat (or at least an overload of it in one meal) is broken down into glucose and then the glucose is converted back to fat for storage? I'm seriously confused now. I know I should have studied harder in biochem...
The point of Keto is to switch the body from a primary glucose burning system to a ketone burning system. This reduces insulin production and presence in the body. Insulin allows cells to take in glucose from the blood for use as immediate energy needs, to replenish glycogen or to store as fat. Insulin can also create hunger feelings, particularly with sudden bursts or when there is too much.
Fat isn't metabolized into glucose, therefore you don't need insulin to take in its provided energy which comes in the form of ketones. Ketones are not broken down into glucose. The brain has a minimum daily need for glucose, but it's not a lot as it runs quite well on ketones and a ketogenic diet is being used to treat many brain related illnesses by doctors that are aware.
The period of time between your body being primarily a glucose burning system to being a ketone burning system is the adaption period. During that period your body will be looking for its usual source of energy, glucose, and when it's not available, you will likely feel hungry as you will be getting hormonal signals telling you that you need glucose. Especially as the glycogen is depleted. Once your glycogen is gone and you are providing your body with enough of its new energy source, it will become adapted and "used to" this new way. At this point, if not before, your hunger is typically reduced. We also need to realize that sometimes we say we are hungry because we want to eat out of boredom or due to a craving possibly.
OP, I'm looking at your total fat intake for the day and I don't feel like it's too low really, however, you start your day off much lower in fat. Your breakfast is pretty low calorie and not a lot of fat, then you have a snack before lunch, but that again is not much fat. I think you are very hungry mid day because you haven't provided enough of any energy, ketones being the new goal, so you need more fat in the morning specifically. Plus, of course, you probably aren't adapted... You're body is telling you to eat carbs still.
That's an interesting observation. Before keto I used to without breakfast or with a very light one to make room for a bigger lunch and I only felt slightly hungry by lunch time, but not in the morning. On keto I wake up hungry. It's not boredom, it's real hunger. Have you ever done a hard workout and a couple of hours later you feel this this insane hunger and your stomach growling? That's what I wake up with and it keeps with me all day, starting about 15 minutes after I wake up and lasts till I go to sleep nonstop. I have yet to find something that fills me up. But maybe you are right, maybe if I switch to a heavier breakfast I may be able to snip it in the bud? That's interesting. I will try that tomorrow.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Granted, I'm not a keto person, but while your lunch has a fair amount of carbs, it also seems that it has some decent fiber, and so your net carbs are at 20g for the day. This actually has me curious. For the keto-ers: does eating a "high carb" meal kick you out of keto?
Essentially I guess I'm asking the same thing as the OP; does nutrient timing matter if your overall daily carb goal is on track? Just curious for knowledge sake.
Also, OP, what is your daily calorie goal?
It won't necessarily kick you out, but dumping a lot of carbs or protein into your system all at once can spike blood sugar (your body will turn excess protein into glucose) and that can cause satiety issues.
Someone said on here a few days ago your body can even convert a high fat meal into glucose, but I haven't read that anywhere else, so I don't know. I still have a lot to learn.
Also, I don't see the total line on there, so OP is making me do math. It's way too early for math!
ee, you keto people are horrible asking all these math based questions!
Interesting about the blood sugar spike and satiety. So I'm guessing there are two solutions then, balance it out by adding more fat to that meal, or spread the carb load more evenly throughout the day in the future?
As for converting high fat meals to glucose, isn't that the point of keto in general? That fat will be broken down and used to make ketones which can then be used to provide glucose to the body as fuel. Or do you mean that excess fat (or at least an overload of it in one meal) is broken down into glucose and then the glucose is converted back to fat for storage? I'm seriously confused now. I know I should have studied harder in biochem...
The point of Keto is to switch the body from a primary glucose burning system to a ketone burning system. This reduces insulin production and presence in the body. Insulin allows cells to take in glucose from the blood for use as immediate energy needs, to replenish glycogen or to store as fat. Insulin can also create hunger feelings, particularly with sudden bursts or when there is too much.
Fat isn't metabolized into glucose, therefore you don't need insulin to take in its provided energy which comes in the form of ketones. Ketones are not broken down into glucose. The brain has a minimum daily need for glucose, but it's not a lot as it runs quite well on ketones and a ketogenic diet is being used to treat many brain related illnesses by doctors that are aware.
The period of time between your body being primarily a glucose burning system to being a ketone burning system is the adaption period. During that period your body will be looking for its usual source of energy, glucose, and when it's not available, you will likely feel hungry as you will be getting hormonal signals telling you that you need glucose. Especially as the glycogen is depleted. Once your glycogen is gone and you are providing your body with enough of its new energy source, it will become adapted and "used to" this new way. At this point, if not before, your hunger is typically reduced. We also need to realize that sometimes we say we are hungry because we want to eat out of boredom or due to a craving possibly.
OP, I'm looking at your total fat intake for the day and I don't feel like it's too low really, however, you start your day off much lower in fat. Your breakfast is pretty low calorie and not a lot of fat, then you have a snack before lunch, but that again is not much fat. I think you are very hungry mid day because you haven't provided enough of any energy, ketones being the new goal, so you need more fat in the morning specifically. Plus, of course, you probably aren't adapted... You're body is telling you to eat carbs still.
That's an interesting observation. Before keto I used to without breakfast or with a very light one to make room for a bigger lunch and I only felt slightly hungry by lunch time, but not in the morning. On keto I wake up hungry. It's not boredom, it's real hunger. Have you ever done a hard workout and a couple of hours later you feel this this insane hunger and your stomach growling? That's what I wake up with and it keeps with me all day, starting about 15 minutes after I wake up and lasts till I go to sleep nonstop. I have yet to find something that fills me up. But maybe you are right, maybe if I switch to a heavier breakfast I may be able to snip it in the bud? That's interesting. I will try that tomorrow.
I do know the hunger you are talking about. My guess is that it's either the body calling out for carbs, being in the adaption process or that you just might be one of those people that simply doesn't get the hunger control commonly associated with low carb. It happens...
Give the bigger breakfast a try a couple of days and if you just can't get adapted, there's nothing wrong with telling your friend that Keto level carbs just doesn't work for you and you can still support her at a higher carb level. I'm sure she was hoping to be able to share in the benefits she was expecting and apparently has been able to get from it, but that dream is already broken if Keto level is something that just doesn't work for you. You seem to be giving it a good go and I admire that you keep trying by making adjustments as you go. Many would've given up days ago.
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Really looks like you need to increase your fat. I started adding heavy cream to my coffee and butter (real butter) to everything I can...now I am staying full and at times am having to make myself eat....also, just because keto works for your friend does not mean it will work for you. I personally do not do keto, I do LCHF staying below 70 g of carbs a day and it seems to be working for me. Remember every "body" is different. Good luck!0
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clayswife13 wrote: »Really looks like you need to increase your fat. I started adding heavy cream to my coffee and butter (real butter) to everything I can...now I am staying full and at times am having to make myself eat....also, just because keto works for your friend does not mean it will work for you. I personally do not do keto, I do LCHF staying below 70 g of carbs a day and it seems to be working for me. Remember every "body" is different. Good luck!
I think it's time to add heavy cream to my coffee in the mornings. I've never tried it, but since I started really keeping my fat intake high, it's about time to check it out!0 -
clayswife13 wrote: »Really looks like you need to increase your fat. I started adding heavy cream to my coffee and butter (real butter) to everything I can...now I am staying full and at times am having to make myself eat....also, just because keto works for your friend does not mean it will work for you. I personally do not do keto, I do LCHF staying below 70 g of carbs a day and it seems to be working for me. Remember every "body" is different. Good luck!
I think it's time to add heavy cream to my coffee in the mornings. I've never tried it, but since I started really keeping my fat intake high, it's about time to check it out!
I used to use half and half or milk--to me the heavy cream taste the same as those.0 -
clayswife13 wrote: »clayswife13 wrote: »Really looks like you need to increase your fat. I started adding heavy cream to my coffee and butter (real butter) to everything I can...now I am staying full and at times am having to make myself eat....also, just because keto works for your friend does not mean it will work for you. I personally do not do keto, I do LCHF staying below 70 g of carbs a day and it seems to be working for me. Remember every "body" is different. Good luck!
I think it's time to add heavy cream to my coffee in the mornings. I've never tried it, but since I started really keeping my fat intake high, it's about time to check it out!
I used to use half and half or milk--to me the heavy cream taste the same as those.
I found whipping cream, 0 carb, I'm sure it will be yummy in my coffee, might even throw one or two drops of real vanilla extract in it. Can't wait for morning. I would have bought heavy whipping cream, but it all had carrageenan in it. Blech! I said cream, not some mutant seaweed extract!0 -
This morning I was watering the trees, and was really tempted by a plump looking apple on the tree. I gave in... apple season is almost over and we have one of the most delicious varieties. Only a few left on the tree and they won't last two weeks. The thoughts of not eating apples from this particular tree for a whole year when there are still some hanging there made me feel uneasy. It was heavenly! Anyway, 15 minutes later my hunger completely disappeared! It's been 3.5 hours now and I'm still not hungry although I ate nothing but that single apple. I guess it was true that my body was pushing me to have carbs in the only way it knows.
I'm going to have an off day today and satisfy my all of my oatmeal and bean cravings that I haven't been able to stop thinking about, then tomorrow I will re-start keto with a 3-4 day water fast. If I'm going to be hungry anyway might as well eat nothing since it makes no difference, and the water fast may push my body into ketosis faster.
After that I'm going to start every day with a large fat-heavy breakfast and a few psyllium husk pills for fiber (since it's soluble fiber, should I include at least a part of it in my carb count?). I'm also going to ditch the chocolate and cold cuts and stick to things that have less additives to rule out any particular substance negatively affecting going into ketosis. Let's see how it goes.0 -
For those of you following Atkins, do you set a daily calorie limit? If so, what is it? I have done it in the past, but wasn't entirely successful- I think I was simply eating too much. I would like to try it again, as it always helps me get my eating under control.
For quite a while after starting Atkins I didn't pay any attention to calories, in effect I removed starchy sides from my meals and ate the fats and proteins I was eating before so my intake fell a lot.0 -
That protein looks a bit low even if you're entirely sedentary, but I'm terrible at protein, I mostly have to worry about going too high. I wonder if that could be it? Anyone else with more knowledge want to jump in here?
50 - 125 grams covers the needs of most women at 0.8 to 2.5 grams per kg of ideal bodyweight.
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I think logging supplements is a good idea.
Water fasting and doing some walking while fasted does help get ketosis going strong.0 -
That protein looks a bit low even if you're entirely sedentary, but I'm terrible at protein, I mostly have to worry about going too high. I wonder if that could be it? Anyone else with more knowledge want to jump in here?
50 - 125 grams covers the needs of most women at 0.8 to 2.5 grams per kg of ideal bodyweight.
Yeah, I read it wrong, I read it as 16g consumed for the day, which I think would be low. Hadn't had enough coffee for reading comprehension, I guess!amusedmonkey wrote: »This morning I was watering the trees, and was really tempted by a plump looking apple on the tree. I gave in... apple season is almost over and we have one of the most delicious varieties. Only a few left on the tree and they won't last two weeks. The thoughts of not eating apples from this particular tree for a whole year when there are still some hanging there made me feel uneasy. It was heavenly! Anyway, 15 minutes later my hunger completely disappeared! It's been 3.5 hours now and I'm still not hungry although I ate nothing but that single apple. I guess it was true that my body was pushing me to have carbs in the only way it knows.
I'm going to have an off day today and satisfy my all of my oatmeal and bean cravings that I haven't been able to stop thinking about, then tomorrow I will re-start keto with a 3-4 day water fast. If I'm going to be hungry anyway might as well eat nothing since it makes no difference, and the water fast may push my body into ketosis faster.
After that I'm going to start every day with a large fat-heavy breakfast and a few psyllium husk pills for fiber (since it's soluble fiber, should I include at least a part of it in my carb count?). I'm also going to ditch the chocolate and cold cuts and stick to things that have less additives to rule out any particular substance negatively affecting going into ketosis. Let's see how it goes.
I don't see why you should have to put yourself through a water fast. I'm sure your sister will understand if this works for her but not for you. Unless you're competing for weight loss amount with her? In which case, heck, let her win, she'll feel great, and you won't have to suffer anymore!0 -
Maybe before you try a water fast, try a fat fast. Google it for the details. It might be enough to get you into ketosis without having to suffer so much.0
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Many ketoers have bulletproof coffee in the morning. I love it. It's the best coffee I've ever made at home. More like a coffeehouse espresso drink than a homemade cup o joe.
Coffee, I like Gevalia espresso blend or the same by Starbucks. I add 1tsp coconut oil, 1Tbs heavy whipping cream (liquid, not whipped) and some Davinci sugar free syrup. The official recipe is 1Tbs coconut oil, 1Tbs real unsalted butter, and 1Tbs heavy whipping crem.
I reduce the amounts and don't use butter to reduce the calories so I can have multiple cups without an 800 calorie breakfast. It's awesome with the butter though and I do have it sometimes.
You have to run this through a little blender or immersion blend it and the ingredients merge without separating. It's gets a perfect foam on top and it's great. I know some just shake it in a cup too.
Also, my point for bringing it up is that it's a great way to get extra fat in the morning.0 -
@amusedmonkey--Do you exercise?0
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A quick update. I had my break day, my oats and my beans. It left me very happy and even overfull. It feels like taking a bubble bath after an exhausting day, like a sigh of relief, calm and happiness. Even if keto is not for me at least I took something out of it. Whenever I'm in a rut and getting bored of my food, a week of keto is a great fix to revive my excitement.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I think logging supplements is a good idea.
Water fasting and doing some walking while fasted does help get ketosis going strong.
My question is how do I log it? The serving is 5 capsules (10 grams) of soluble fiber, so do I log it as 10 grams of carbs or do half like I used to when I was pre-diabetic? What effect does soluble fiber have on blood sugar and how does it affect ketosis?I don't see why you should have to put yourself through a water fast. I'm sure your sister will understand if this works for her but not for you. Unless you're competing for weight loss amount with her? In which case, heck, let her win, she'll feel great, and you won't have to suffer anymore!
I already know what I thrive on, but I'm the kind of person who would try anything at least once before dismissing it. I tried keto before, but I did not have the resources I do now and ended up rage-quitting after it got to the point where I near stopped eating because I felt nothing I like fits the diet. This time I'm prepared better. I just want to experience this "keto high" of energy and lack of hunger at least for one day, just to know how it feels. Having my sister around for this is a plus. Water fasting is nothing. In fact it's a bit easier than first week of keto because it's hunger sans the frustration of trying to stop it. In fact the hunger only gets bad in the evening of a full day fast, from my past experiences, while on keto it's a whole day thing. Probably because when I'm not eating, that's that, but when I'm on keto my body keeps expecting carbs and gets non even though there is food in my system. I believe it's worth a try.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Many ketoers have bulletproof coffee in the morning. I love it. It's the best coffee I've ever made at home. More like a coffeehouse espresso drink than a homemade cup o joe.
Coffee, I like Gevalia espresso blend or the same by Starbucks. I add 1tsp coconut oil, 1Tbs heavy whipping cream (liquid, not whipped) and some Davinci sugar free syrup. The official recipe is 1Tbs coconut oil, 1Tbs real unsalted butter, and 1Tbs heavy whipping crem.
I reduce the amounts and don't use butter to reduce the calories so I can have multiple cups without an 800 calorie breakfast. It's awesome with the butter though and I do have it sometimes.
You have to run this through a little blender or immersion blend it and the ingredients merge without separating. It's gets a perfect foam on top and it's great. I know some just shake it in a cup too.
Also, my point for bringing it up is that it's a great way to get extra fat in the morning.
I do the version that does not include whipping cream and I love it! Mine has 1/2 tbsp of butter and 1/2 tbsp of coconut oil no sweetener (I've always taken my coffee without sugar). Any more than that and I set myself for unpleasant experiences like nausea and acid reflux. Maybe adding cream will enable me to add more fat without contributing to the unpleasant side effects! Thank you for the idea!_Terrapin_ wrote: »@amusedmonkey--Do you exercise?
Not as much as I would like to due to because of my chronic back pain. I try to take the opportunity and exercise when I have good days, but I'm not always lucky to have them. Currently I don't exercise at all due to a different issue (I hurt my achilles from walking too much too soon), but I try to do just enough walking to stop my fitbit from giving me a negative adjustment.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »A quick update. I had my break day, my oats and my beans. It left me very happy and even overfull. It feels like taking a bubble bath after an exhausting day, like a sigh of relief, calm and happiness. Even if keto is not for me at least I took something out of it. Whenever I'm in a rut and getting bored of my food, a week of keto is a great fix to revive my excitement.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I think logging supplements is a good idea.
Water fasting and doing some walking while fasted does help get ketosis going strong.
My question is how do I log it? The serving is 5 capsules (10 grams) of soluble fiber, so do I log it as 10 grams of carbs or do half like I used to when I was pre-diabetic? What effect does soluble fiber have on blood sugar and how does it affect ketosis?I don't see why you should have to put yourself through a water fast. I'm sure your sister will understand if this works for her but not for you. Unless you're competing for weight loss amount with her? In which case, heck, let her win, she'll feel great, and you won't have to suffer anymore!
I already know what I thrive on, but I'm the kind of person who would try anything at least once before dismissing it. I tried keto before, but I did not have the resources I do now and ended up rage-quitting after it got to the point where I near stopped eating because I felt nothing I like fits the diet. This time I'm prepared better. I just want to experience this "keto high" of energy and lack of hunger at least for one day, just to know how it feels. Having my sister around for this is a plus. Water fasting is nothing. In fact it's a bit easier than first week of keto because it's hunger sans the frustration of trying to stop it. In fact the hunger only gets bad by evening, from my past experiences. I believe it's worth it.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Many ketoers have bulletproof coffee in the morning. I love it. It's the best coffee I've ever made at home. More like a coffeehouse espresso drink than a homemade cup o joe.
Coffee, I like Gevalia espresso blend or the same by Starbucks. I add 1tsp coconut oil, 1Tbs heavy whipping cream (liquid, not whipped) and some Davinci sugar free syrup. The official recipe is 1Tbs coconut oil, 1Tbs real unsalted butter, and 1Tbs heavy whipping crem.
I reduce the amounts and don't use butter to reduce the calories so I can have multiple cups without an 800 calorie breakfast. It's awesome with the butter though and I do have it sometimes.
You have to run this through a little blender or immersion blend it and the ingredients merge without separating. It's gets a perfect foam on top and it's great. I know some just shake it in a cup too.
Also, my point for bringing it up is that it's a great way to get extra fat in the morning.
I do the version that does not include whipping cream and I love it! Mine has 1/2 tbsp of butter and 1/2 tbsp of coconut oil no sweetener (I've always taken my coffee without sugar). Any more than that and I set myself for unpleasant experiences like nausea and acid reflux. Maybe adding cream will enable me to add more fat without contributing to the unpleasant side effects! Thank you for the idea!_Terrapin_ wrote: »@amusedmonkey--Do you exercise?
Not as much as I would like to due to because of my chronic back pain. I try to take the opportunity and exercise when I have good days, but I'm not always lucky to have them. Currently I don't exercise at all due to a different issue (I hurt my achilles from walking too much too soon), but I try to do just enough walking to stop my fitbit from giving me a negative adjustment.
Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against fasting for a few days, I've done it, too, until Day 4 I don't mind it, I just didn't want you suffering along just for your sis! It is true fasting should put you in heavy ketosis faster if you're not.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »A quick update. I had my break day, my oats and my beans. It left me very happy and even overfull. It feels like taking a bubble bath after an exhausting day, like a sigh of relief, calm and happiness. Even if keto is not for me at least I took something out of it. Whenever I'm in a rut and getting bored of my food, a week of keto is a great fix to revive my excitement.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I think logging supplements is a good idea.
Water fasting and doing some walking while fasted does help get ketosis going strong.
My question is how do I log it? The serving is 5 capsules (10 grams) of soluble fiber, so do I log it as 10 grams of carbs or do half like I used to when I was pre-diabetic? What effect does soluble fiber have on blood sugar and how does it affect ketosis?I don't see why you should have to put yourself through a water fast. I'm sure your sister will understand if this works for her but not for you. Unless you're competing for weight loss amount with her? In which case, heck, let her win, she'll feel great, and you won't have to suffer anymore!
I already know what I thrive on, but I'm the kind of person who would try anything at least once before dismissing it. I tried keto before, but I did not have the resources I do now and ended up rage-quitting after it got to the point where I near stopped eating because I felt nothing I like fits the diet. This time I'm prepared better. I just want to experience this "keto high" of energy and lack of hunger at least for one day, just to know how it feels. Having my sister around for this is a plus. Water fasting is nothing. In fact it's a bit easier than first week of keto because it's hunger sans the frustration of trying to stop it. In fact the hunger only gets bad in the evening of a full day fast, from my past experiences, while on keto it's a whole day thing. Probably because when I'm not eating, that's that, but when I'm on keto my body keeps expecting carbs and gets non even though there is food in my system. I believe it's worth a try.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Many ketoers have bulletproof coffee in the morning. I love it. It's the best coffee I've ever made at home. More like a coffeehouse espresso drink than a homemade cup o joe.
Coffee, I like Gevalia espresso blend or the same by Starbucks. I add 1tsp coconut oil, 1Tbs heavy whipping cream (liquid, not whipped) and some Davinci sugar free syrup. The official recipe is 1Tbs coconut oil, 1Tbs real unsalted butter, and 1Tbs heavy whipping crem.
I reduce the amounts and don't use butter to reduce the calories so I can have multiple cups without an 800 calorie breakfast. It's awesome with the butter though and I do have it sometimes.
You have to run this through a little blender or immersion blend it and the ingredients merge without separating. It's gets a perfect foam on top and it's great. I know some just shake it in a cup too.
Also, my point for bringing it up is that it's a great way to get extra fat in the morning.
I do the version that does not include whipping cream and I love it! Mine has 1/2 tbsp of butter and 1/2 tbsp of coconut oil no sweetener (I've always taken my coffee without sugar). Any more than that and I set myself for unpleasant experiences like nausea and acid reflux. Maybe adding cream will enable me to add more fat without contributing to the unpleasant side effects! Thank you for the idea!_Terrapin_ wrote: »@amusedmonkey--Do you exercise?
Not as much as I would like to due to because of my chronic back pain. I try to take the opportunity and exercise when I have good days, but I'm not always lucky to have them. Currently I don't exercise at all due to a different issue (I hurt my achilles from walking too much too soon), but I try to do just enough walking to stop my fitbit from giving me a negative adjustment.
Can you scan the supplement bottle? I would just log the whole amount. Weather or not the fiber has an effect on ketosis would probably depend on if you have an insulin response to it. If so, try to have it with your lowest carb meal, probably breakfast... Also, why is it you want the supplement? Was it for hunger control? Because I don't think that will actually do anything for that. Especially if it causes an insulin response. That will just signal hunger.
As far as the coffee, you could just add more of the CO or butter to get the fat and calories in. No need to add cream if it's not your preference.
You really need to keep in mind that you will be losing a lot of water while fasting. But it won't just be water. It will be sodium and other electrolytes too. Just drinking water all day isn't enough to stay properly hydrated. Meaning the electrolyte balance is an important part of hydration. If you are not going to eat for 12 or more hours you need to figure out how you are going to get the 5000mg of sodium you will need to keep from feeling aweful. You really do need that much once the trips to the bathroom start because you will be losing a lot.
And at what point do you plan to eat? It's often not advised reduce calories during adaptation. Especially if you don't get a quick hunger control response. You know what you are capable of. Much of the hunger is psychological anyway when the carbs are first restricted.
Also, I didn't realize you were pre diabetic at some point. Do you have any insulin resistance currently? That could be part of the hunger issue you are having.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »A quick update. I had my break day, my oats and my beans. It left me very happy and even overfull. It feels like taking a bubble bath after an exhausting day, like a sigh of relief, calm and happiness. Even if keto is not for me at least I took something out of it. Whenever I'm in a rut and getting bored of my food, a week of keto is a great fix to revive my excitement.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I think logging supplements is a good idea.
Water fasting and doing some walking while fasted does help get ketosis going strong.
My question is how do I log it? The serving is 5 capsules (10 grams) of soluble fiber, so do I log it as 10 grams of carbs or do half like I used to when I was pre-diabetic? What effect does soluble fiber have on blood sugar and how does it affect ketosis?I don't see why you should have to put yourself through a water fast. I'm sure your sister will understand if this works for her but not for you. Unless you're competing for weight loss amount with her? In which case, heck, let her win, she'll feel great, and you won't have to suffer anymore!
I already know what I thrive on, but I'm the kind of person who would try anything at least once before dismissing it. I tried keto before, but I did not have the resources I do now and ended up rage-quitting after it got to the point where I near stopped eating because I felt nothing I like fits the diet. This time I'm prepared better. I just want to experience this "keto high" of energy and lack of hunger at least for one day, just to know how it feels. Having my sister around for this is a plus. Water fasting is nothing. In fact it's a bit easier than first week of keto because it's hunger sans the frustration of trying to stop it. In fact the hunger only gets bad in the evening of a full day fast, from my past experiences, while on keto it's a whole day thing. Probably because when I'm not eating, that's that, but when I'm on keto my body keeps expecting carbs and gets non even though there is food in my system. I believe it's worth a try.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Many ketoers have bulletproof coffee in the morning. I love it. It's the best coffee I've ever made at home. More like a coffeehouse espresso drink than a homemade cup o joe.
Coffee, I like Gevalia espresso blend or the same by Starbucks. I add 1tsp coconut oil, 1Tbs heavy whipping cream (liquid, not whipped) and some Davinci sugar free syrup. The official recipe is 1Tbs coconut oil, 1Tbs real unsalted butter, and 1Tbs heavy whipping crem.
I reduce the amounts and don't use butter to reduce the calories so I can have multiple cups without an 800 calorie breakfast. It's awesome with the butter though and I do have it sometimes.
You have to run this through a little blender or immersion blend it and the ingredients merge without separating. It's gets a perfect foam on top and it's great. I know some just shake it in a cup too.
Also, my point for bringing it up is that it's a great way to get extra fat in the morning.
I do the version that does not include whipping cream and I love it! Mine has 1/2 tbsp of butter and 1/2 tbsp of coconut oil no sweetener (I've always taken my coffee without sugar). Any more than that and I set myself for unpleasant experiences like nausea and acid reflux. Maybe adding cream will enable me to add more fat without contributing to the unpleasant side effects! Thank you for the idea!_Terrapin_ wrote: »@amusedmonkey--Do you exercise?
Not as much as I would like to due to because of my chronic back pain. I try to take the opportunity and exercise when I have good days, but I'm not always lucky to have them. Currently I don't exercise at all due to a different issue (I hurt my achilles from walking too much too soon), but I try to do just enough walking to stop my fitbit from giving me a negative adjustment.
Can you scan the supplement bottle? I would just log the whole amount. Weather or not the fiber has an effect on ketosis would probably depend on if you have an insulin response to it. If so, try to have it with your lowest carb meal, probably breakfast... Also, why is it you want the supplement? Was it for hunger control? Because I don't think that will actually do anything for that. Especially if it causes an insulin response. That will just signal hunger.
As far as the coffee, you could just add more of the CO or butter to get the fat and calories in. No need to add cream if it's not your preference.
You really need to keep in mind that you will be losing a lot of water while fasting. But it won't just be water. It will be sodium and other electrolytes too. Just drinking water all day isn't enough to stay properly hydrated. Meaning the electrolyte balance is an important part of hydration. If you are not going to eat for 12 or more hours you need to figure out how you are going to get the 5000mg of sodium you will need to keep from feeling aweful. You really do need that much once the trips to the bathroom start because you will be losing a lot.
And at what point do you plan to eat? It's often not advised reduce calories during adaptation. Especially if you don't get a quick hunger control response. You know what you are capable of. Much of the hunger is psychological anyway when the carbs are first restricted.
Also, I didn't realize you were pre diabetic at some point. Do you have any insulin resistance currently? That could be part of the hunger issue you are having.
I usually consume 40-70 grams of fiber a day, so I thought that the sudden drop in fiber was one of the reasons I'm hungry and wanted to supplement that. Today I was not hungry at all, and even overfull although calorie per calorie I consumed less than I do on keto. I actually couldn't have lunch till later and couldn't have a larger dinner because I was too full.
This is how I did today, for reference:
So you think I should invest into some kind of electrolyte powder?
I don't know if I'm currently insulin resistant, but before weight loss I believe I was. My blood sugar used to hover around 118, now it's usually in the low 70s. Actually thank you for reminding me. I could test if the fiber supplement has any effect on blood sugar using my meter.
0 -
You don't need any special powder. You just need to keep sodium up. You could have some broth to get the sodium. But you do need to get a fair amount. Drinking broth won't effect the fast. So I would drink several cups a day while fasting.
1tsp of my Wylers powder gives 790 mg of sodium.
If you want to do even better than that you could take a magnesium and possibly a potassium supplement. You can also get potassium from NuSalt, a salt substitute product. Just add some to the broth. But if you keep the salt up, you shouldn't have any Keto flu issues other than the body wanting the carbs it's not getting. But that does subside. I promise. I had a crazy candy binging problem. The thought that I could possibly eat low carb at first was a crazy personal challenge that I didn't think would go very far. Yesterday I had like 15 total carbs and 10 of them were right before bed from some yogurt and dark chocolate I had. I went all day on 5g. I didn't even notice. Normally I have more vegetables but I just wasn't feeling it yesterday. I wasn't hungry. I didn't even get to 1000 calories yesterday. That doesn't usually happen. So before anyone goes crazy about the low calories... It's not the norm.
Anyway, I ate so much candy and craved it constantly at one point. I can't believe I am actually completely uninterested in it now.0 -
A quick update for those in the same boat. I'm doing my water fast after a couple of days of eating whatever I wanted and I am drinking mushroom and chives broth because I hate the flavor of both beef and chicken, so I thought if I'm fasting why not include something I enjoy? I made it as salty as possible without ruining the taste. Mushrooms provide potassium and some other minerals (I used a mix of bellas+shetake for a nicer taste) and chives provide magnesium. salted with sea salt because it really goes well with mushrooms.
It's unbelievable, but eating nothing I'm less hungry than I was when I was eating lots of things on keto, so electrolytes may have been a culprit. I'm doing well and enjoying the experience. If all goes well for the next 3 days I'm going to continue the practice of drinking mushroom broth when I officially start keto again. The only problem is that it's about 1 g of carbs a cup so I may also need to increase my carb allowance a bit up to 30-40 I think would be much more comfortable.0 -
I need more potassium myself, happy for the mushroom reminder!
I am often less hungry on a fast than when eating anything. For a day or two, then watch out, world!0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »A quick update for those in the same boat. I'm doing my water fast after a couple of days of eating whatever I wanted and I am drinking mushroom and chives broth because I hate the flavor of both beef and chicken, so I thought if I'm fasting why not include something I enjoy? I made it as salty as possible without ruining the taste. Mushrooms provide potassium and some other minerals (I used a mix of bellas+shetake for a nicer taste) and chives provide magnesium. salted with sea salt because it really goes well with mushrooms.
It's unbelievable, but eating nothing I'm less hungry than I was when I was eating lots of things on keto, so electrolytes may have been a culprit. I'm doing well and enjoying the experience. If all goes well for the next 3 days I'm going to continue the practice of drinking mushroom broth when I officially start keto again. The only problem is that it's about 1 g of carbs a cup so I may also need to increase my carb allowance a bit up to 30-40 I think would be much more comfortable.
The broth sounds great! Carbs in that range will be fine for a Keto plan too. Especially since it's just coming from the chives and mushroom pretty much. If you're a bit higher and it's because of vegetables, it shouldn't be an issue unless it's sugary veg like carrots or something.
Having the electrolytes balanced is often the key to success in getting started. Many times people just don't realize how much sodium is needed and suffer from that dreaded Keto flu unnecessarily. It's possible that fasting keeps you more hunger controlled because of the sudden rush of ketones since there isn't even minimal carbs in the diet at that time.
Enjoy! It sounds like you are making a better start this time.0
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