Reps/sets!?
Samm471
Posts: 432 Member
im new to lifting only been following a proper programme for about 4 weeks now ICF 5x5 beforehand I was kinda just lifting not having a clue what to do. Anyway I just wondered if anyone would know about the reps/sets. What's it all about? Why do some people do like 8 reps and so many sets and then do like 5 reps 5 sets and then that 12 reps one? If I'm going to be bulking soon what is the ideal rep range etc to be doing. Should I just stick to the 5x5 programme. I just don't get the whole more reps less reps thing can someone explain please 
Thanks! Oh and I always though to lift heavy with less reps or am I wrong? 
Thanks! Oh and I always though to lift heavy with less reps or am I wrong? 0
Replies
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To be honest, everything is theory with very little science to back up saying X amount of reps is better than Y amount of reps. If you want strength, usually low reps (1-5) are best. But even those who focus strictly on strength will throw in crazy workouts where they do sets of 20 reps or maybe they will shoot for 100 reps of a moderate weight and just set after set until they hit the 100 reps.
Experiment and see what rep range you like to do. If you can't get into lifting heavy one day, drop the weight and do some speed work or just go for volume (lots of sets and lots of reps like 10 sets of 10).0 -
Reps and sets are largely determined by what a person is seeking out of lifting. 5x5 is a progressive overload lifting program generally used by beginners looking to gain strength. The rep schemes are classically broken down as 1-3 power, 3-5 strength, 5-10 hypertrophy, 10+ muscular endurance. The Science and Practice of Strength Training is a good (all be it scientific) look at the power production and energy system requirements in these different rep ranges. Also, why are you bulking and what are you looking to gain? How clean a bulk are you looking to achieve? What are your current strength numbers and stats? Without some of that information no one here can realistically offer any practical advice.0
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TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »To be honest, everything is theory with very little science to back up saying X amount of reps is better than Y amount of reps. If you want strength, usually low reps (1-5) are best. But even those who focus strictly on strength will throw in crazy workouts where they do sets of 20 reps or maybe they will shoot for 100 reps of a moderate weight and just set after set until they hit the 100 reps.
Experiment and see what rep range you like to do. If you can't get into lifting heavy one day, drop the weight and do some speed work or just go for volume (lots of sets and lots of reps like 10 sets of 10).
Thanks I really enjoy lifting heavy especially squats ( my fave ) so I do like the 5x5 but I also kinda like doing like 3 sets of 10 reps too and sometimes 3x8 is there a right or wrong rep range like for example if I wanted to do military press with a lighter weight on the bar and could get it up there 20 times is that okay or is that wrong? I understand if you lift heavy it's gonna be harder to lift that 20 times 0 -
3 sets of 10 reps on things like skull crushers or tricep push downs etc not squats or anything lol0
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TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »To be honest, everything is theory with very little science to back up saying X amount of reps is better than Y amount of reps. If you want strength, usually low reps (1-5) are best. But even those who focus strictly on strength will throw in crazy workouts where they do sets of 20 reps or maybe they will shoot for 100 reps of a moderate weight and just set after set until they hit the 100 reps.
Experiment and see what rep range you like to do. If you can't get into lifting heavy one day, drop the weight and do some speed work or just go for volume (lots of sets and lots of reps like 10 sets of 10).
I kind of feel like you are conflating a scientific theory that has undergone testing and observation with a layman's theory, which is a guess. There has been tons of peer reviewed science on what rep ranges and sets are the most effective for strength development and muscle growth. The Soviets, US, Chinese, and most other Olympic teams employ or have employed physicist and physicians to help study the most effective ways to develop muscle, strength, and athletic ability.
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Reps and sets are largely determined by what a person is seeking out of lifting. 5x5 is a progressive overload lifting program generally used by beginners looking to gain strength. The rep schemes are classically broken down as 1-3 power, 3-5 strength, 5-10 hypertrophy, 10+ muscular endurance. The Science and Practice of Strength Training is a good (all be it scientific) look at the power production and energy system requirements in these different rep ranges. Also, why are you bulking and what are you looking to gain? How clean a bulk are you looking to achieve? What are your current strength numbers and stats? Without some of that information no one here can realistically offer any practical advice.
Okay awesome well I'm not bulking yet but I am looking to build muscle and strength too? I'm bulking because I want to gain muscle I like the look rather than just an average frame for a female .. I want my bulk to be as clean as possible I'm not looking for a dirty bulk. Strength numbers do you mean how heavy I'm lifting? Well I weigh 122lbs im squatting my own body weight barbell rows are at 40kg deadlift are 40kg ( im new to deadlifts I was wary of doing those ) I'm not sure if that's the info you would need to give me some good advice 0 -
Im not exactly sure how much I'm looking to gain really doing a bulk ( weight wise) and I don't know how far back I'm supposed to cut when that time comes after the bulk. I know to try and aim for 0.5lbs /1lb per week gain but I don't know how far to cut back or anything. My body fat is about 22.7% i think I seen someone mention 18-22% is ideal for a woman to bulk so I'm pretty much there0
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I would say with those numbers and your goals you would benefit from 5x5, starting strength, or a similar program focused on developing strength. Initially you will gain the size and go towards the shape you are looking for with just that and a very slight caloric surplus. As you get more advanced then you may need to play with reps, sets, percentages, and diet to get the look and ability you want. All the exercises you listed, plus bench press, overhead press, pull ups, dips, and chin ups. I think you will be really happy with the advances you make, but it will be slow. That is the one down side to working on strength, it takes time. I hope you get what you are looking for and that this helped.0
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I would not worry about calling it a bulk, you just need to build that base level of strength. I promise, if you do that and eat well, you will see results you will be happy with.0
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I would say with those numbers and your goals you would benefit from 5x5, starting strength, or a similar program focused on developing strength. Initially you will gain the size and go towards the shape you are looking for with just that and a very slight caloric surplus. As you get more advanced then you may need to play with reps, sets, percentages, and diet to get the look and ability you want. All the exercises you listed, plus bench press, overhead press, pull ups, dips, and chin ups. I think you will be really happy with the advances you make, but it will be slow. That is the one down side to working on strength, it takes time. I hope you get what you are looking for and that this helped.
Okay cool! I will stick with the 5x5 since this is the first time round doing this and then maybe on second bulk or whatever you wanna call it I can try something else ?0 -
3 sets of 10 reps on things like skull crushers or tricep push downs etc not squats or anything lol
many people who do traditional strength programs (low reps/heavy) will do their primary lifts in that range...tricep push downs, arm curles, etc are accessory work and most people will do accessory work in the 8-12 rep range because there is little benefit to doing these kind of lifts in a lower rep range. 8-12 reps with moderate is generally for hypertrophy and/or general fitness...lower reps and higher weight are for building optimal strength and generally reserved for traditional strength movements like squats, dead lifts, bench press, etc.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »3 sets of 10 reps on things like skull crushers or tricep push downs etc not squats or anything lol
many people who do traditional strength programs (low reps/heavy) will do their primary lifts in that range...tricep push downs, arm curles, etc are accessory work and most people will do accessory work in the 8-12 rep range because there is little benefit to doing these kind of lifts in a lower rep range. 8-12 reps with moderate is generally for hypertrophy and/or general fitness...lower reps and higher weight are for building optimal strength and generally reserved for traditional strength movements like squats, dead lifts, bench press, etc.
This makes a lot of sense. In fact, I've started doing a few accessory lifts along with the big ones and quickly discovered that a lower weight with more reps (around 10) was better for those. And my big lifts are progressing nicely as I do it.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »3 sets of 10 reps on things like skull crushers or tricep push downs etc not squats or anything lol
many people who do traditional strength programs (low reps/heavy) will do their primary lifts in that range...tricep push downs, arm curles, etc are accessory work and most people will do accessory work in the 8-12 rep range because there is little benefit to doing these kind of lifts in a lower rep range. 8-12 reps with moderate is generally for hypertrophy and/or general fitness...lower reps and higher weight are for building optimal strength and generally reserved for traditional strength movements like squats, dead lifts, bench press, etc.
This makes a lot of sense. In fact, I've started doing a few accessory lifts along with the big ones and quickly discovered that a lower weight with more reps (around 10) was better for those. And my big lifts are progressing nicely as I do it.
That is the essence of 5/3/1 program.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »3 sets of 10 reps on things like skull crushers or tricep push downs etc not squats or anything lol
many people who do traditional strength programs (low reps/heavy) will do their primary lifts in that range...tricep push downs, arm curles, etc are accessory work and most people will do accessory work in the 8-12 rep range because there is little benefit to doing these kind of lifts in a lower rep range. 8-12 reps with moderate is generally for hypertrophy and/or general fitness...lower reps and higher weight are for building optimal strength and generally reserved for traditional strength movements like squats, dead lifts, bench press, etc.
Ah I get it and your right because on the 5x5 programme deadlifts are like 1x5 squats are 5x5 bench presses etc the same and the skull crushers and ab work is 8-12 range of 3 sets. For bulking what's your opinion wolfman stick with 5x5 or try and do isolation exercises? I just like to hear people opinions 0 -
For bulking hit the big compounds and then, if you have time and are up to it, thrown down on some accessory stuff. Doesn't need to be too many different types, just a couple.
Just keep in mind it doesn't take sets and sets and set of iso stuff, as you've already worked the muscles with the big compounds.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »3 sets of 10 reps on things like skull crushers or tricep push downs etc not squats or anything lol
many people who do traditional strength programs (low reps/heavy) will do their primary lifts in that range...tricep push downs, arm curles, etc are accessory work and most people will do accessory work in the 8-12 rep range because there is little benefit to doing these kind of lifts in a lower rep range. 8-12 reps with moderate is generally for hypertrophy and/or general fitness...lower reps and higher weight are for building optimal strength and generally reserved for traditional strength movements like squats, dead lifts, bench press, etc.
Ah I get it and your right because on the 5x5 programme deadlifts are like 1x5 squats are 5x5 bench presses etc the same and the skull crushers and ab work is 8-12 range of 3 sets. For bulking what's your opinion wolfman stick with 5x5 or try and do isolation exercises? I just like to hear people opinions
True bulking is a combination of total volume and surplus calorie consumption. I think ideally you want to do a compound lift as the focus of the session and a couple isolation exercises to help support the muscles of the compound lift. Something like the Ice Cream 5x5 is probably not a bad place for you to start as you're still learning the ins-and-outs of everything. If your nutrition is appropriate you will put on the size you're looking for.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »3 sets of 10 reps on things like skull crushers or tricep push downs etc not squats or anything lol
many people who do traditional strength programs (low reps/heavy) will do their primary lifts in that range...tricep push downs, arm curles, etc are accessory work and most people will do accessory work in the 8-12 rep range because there is little benefit to doing these kind of lifts in a lower rep range. 8-12 reps with moderate is generally for hypertrophy and/or general fitness...lower reps and higher weight are for building optimal strength and generally reserved for traditional strength movements like squats, dead lifts, bench press, etc.
Ah I get it and your right because on the 5x5 programme deadlifts are like 1x5 squats are 5x5 bench presses etc the same and the skull crushers and ab work is 8-12 range of 3 sets. For bulking what's your opinion wolfman stick with 5x5 or try and do isolation exercises? I just like to hear people opinions
True bulking is a combination of total volume and surplus calorie consumption. I think ideally you want to do a compound lift as the focus of the session and a couple isolation exercises to help support the muscles of the compound lift. Something like the Ice Cream 5x5 is probably not a bad place for you to start as you're still learning the ins-and-outs of everything. If your nutrition is appropriate you will put on the size you're looking for.
Cool! Thanks yeah I'm really enjoying the ICF it's good my nutrition is pretty good I think so I hope that does help .. I'm just not sure when is totally the best time to bulk I feel skinny though I do think I need to add some muscle as little as it may be with me being a girl. I think my bf is 22.7% 0 -
I lift heavy and do 3 sets of 4-6. I keep my weights where 4-5 is the most I can do. When I hit 6 a couple of times I add weight. I've been doing this for 4+ months and have added lots of strength and muscle. I agree the compound lifts are critical. The goal is to overload your muscles and create hypertrophy. Look up muscleforlife.com and read some of his stuff. It's a great program that has worked very well for me.0
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TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »To be honest, everything is theory with very little science to back up saying X amount of reps is better than Y amount of reps. If you want strength, usually low reps (1-5) are best. But even those who focus strictly on strength will throw in crazy workouts where they do sets of 20 reps or maybe they will shoot for 100 reps of a moderate weight and just set after set until they hit the 100 reps.
Experiment and see what rep range you like to do. If you can't get into lifting heavy one day, drop the weight and do some speed work or just go for volume (lots of sets and lots of reps like 10 sets of 10).
I have found research for high rep low weight to stimulate growth as part of a routine. The different combinations of rep/weight hits develops different strands and has varied effects on a body (think bone density, etc). The key in the research is always lifting to fatigue to break down muscle so it builds. Most points to strength gains for heavier weights and endurance gains for light weights, which seems to make sense. For me, since I train for sport and endurance a majority of my workouts is lighter weight/high rep, but I mix it up.
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Just stick with ICF as written and see how you do. It has a nice combo of compound and isolation lifts and progressive overload.0
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Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »3 sets of 10 reps on things like skull crushers or tricep push downs etc not squats or anything lol
many people who do traditional strength programs (low reps/heavy) will do their primary lifts in that range...tricep push downs, arm curles, etc are accessory work and most people will do accessory work in the 8-12 rep range because there is little benefit to doing these kind of lifts in a lower rep range. 8-12 reps with moderate is generally for hypertrophy and/or general fitness...lower reps and higher weight are for building optimal strength and generally reserved for traditional strength movements like squats, dead lifts, bench press, etc.
Ah I get it and your right because on the 5x5 programme deadlifts are like 1x5 squats are 5x5 bench presses etc the same and the skull crushers and ab work is 8-12 range of 3 sets. For bulking what's your opinion wolfman stick with 5x5 or try and do isolation exercises? I just like to hear people opinions
True bulking is a combination of total volume and surplus calorie consumption. I think ideally you want to do a compound lift as the focus of the session and a couple isolation exercises to help support the muscles of the compound lift. Something like the Ice Cream 5x5 is probably not a bad place for you to start as you're still learning the ins-and-outs of everything. If your nutrition is appropriate you will put on the size you're looking for.
Cool! Thanks yeah I'm really enjoying the ICF it's good my nutrition is pretty good I think so I hope that does help .. I'm just not sure when is totally the best time to bulk I feel skinny though I do think I need to add some muscle as little as it may be with me being a girl. I think my bf is 22.7%
You have to make the judgement call for yourself and like what you see in the mirror or just how you feel in general. It's probably easier to start lifting and build a good base of strength while dropping some weight, if you need to that is; then switch gears and work on muscle hypertrophy.
There are so many ways to train but remember many methods and individual success comes after years of hard work and not just a few months. A lot of mistakes get made along which we all learn from and learn how to adapt and improve.0 -
Awesome info guys! It's funny how everyone works out differently and to what suits them best. I do love the 5x5 programme and it really does push me and make me add weight to the bar. It's uncomfortable to start with but its a good challenege and I'm enjoying it. Maybe in time I could look at other programmes that do have more isolation in them but also add compound lifts to them.
I understand what you mean it's gonna take years of practice to know exactly what I'm doing. It's hard learning all the names of exercises and performing them too though because this 5x5 programme doesn't have all isolation moves in it so there's a lot of other things I could be learning and getting better at that I'm not yet0
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