At my wits end despite good results
egsimi
Posts: 7 Member
Thanks for reading this, hopefully someone has guidance, support or advice regarding my concerns. Sorry for the book...
tl:dr for below, according to all the numbers (food log and BMR with exercise adjustment) I should be dropping several pounds a week. however my weight has not changed since the first week of April. weight loss was humming along, I even tried to compensate for my decrease in body weight (100lbs) by reducing my caloric intake from 2000 to 1700 then my loss slammed to a halt and has not moved since April 2015 after 8 months of unmitigated success.
Are my expectations to blame or is something else going on, because despite everything it seems I should be losing something!
the story so far:
August 2014, I was a 40 year old male, 6'1" tall and I weighed in at 400lbs living a totally sedentary lifestyle. I ate take out or delivery more often than I cooked at home and when I did cook it was usually ribs or something like that. Then, I am unsurprisingly diagnosed with type 2 Diabetes.
September 2014: I begin in earnest working to lose weight and control my blood sugar. My diet goes low(ish) carb and all my meals are prepared at home. I begin walking twice a day, short distances at first (quarter mile at best) and work up from there. my caloric intake is around 2000 per day with a BMR around 4500, so that's a 2500 deficit on average. I start losing about 5lbs a week.
January 2015: My diet and exercise is firing on all cylinders, I have lost 60lbs and at the end of December I completed a 6 mile hike. I start hiking every weekend, still walking 2 miles a day with Sundays as a rest day.
April 2015: By now I have lost another 40lbs, my weight is right around 301lbs and I am still hiking every weekend, and still walking every day, although the last 10 pounds came off really slowly and took almost 5 weeks. Thats fine, I adjust my caloric intake to 1700 a day average... BMR shows 3500 cals a day average, 4000 with exercise.
June 2015:... down to 298 after a week of camping and hiking (did 13 mile hike, a far cry from my inability to walk even a quarter mile with out rest back in September)... subsequent Abdominal Surgery lays me up for a few weeks.
July 2015: recovered from Surgery, weight up to 302, start jogging 2 miles a night.
August 2015:, no weight change, Start eating up to 2500 cals a day, start weight training 3x a week, still jogging on non weight training days. Caloric deficit still around 1000 to 1500 per day. (BMR 3500-4000)
September 2015:, weight bump up to 308, attribute to muscle increase... caloric intake still showing 1000 to 1500 deficit per day.
October 2015: drop daily cal goal to 2000 with excursions allowed to 2500 on weight training days for protein, Still deficit around 1000 to 1500 a day... no weight change despite physical improvements, weight training increased to 5x per week.
Okay, so I know that while weight training the rate of fat loss can be offset by muscle gain but everything i have read says it is much easier to burn fat than it is to gain muscle (which apparently can't be done if eating a deficit anyhow)... but after three months of training i would expect some positive weight change here... my weight fluctuates between 309 and 301 during the week. (today was 305, will be 301 by Friday and back to 308 on Monday)
I guess my question is should I still be patient and just carry on? is it still possible I am adding muscle at a rate which is off set by fat loss? Yes, my clothes fit better, my stomach is flatter, my chest, shoulder, legs and arms are bigger yet less flabby... I am not complaining about results but I am still a little perturbed that my body weight has not dropped any appreciable amount... remember, 4 months of no change before even starting weight training.
also, my scale (fitbit Aria) measures body fat %... it was going in the right direction, it had been in the 34 to 35% range through August then started dropping to the 31% range by October 1st and was consistent over a couple weeks (YAY!) but now its back up to 34% after just one weekend... so I don't know what to believe...
My goal is to get to around 225lbs so I have another 75 to go, I just need to figure out if I am somehow shooting myself in the foot and holding back progress through too much restriction or if my expectations simply need to be adjusted.
Thank You!
tl:dr for below, according to all the numbers (food log and BMR with exercise adjustment) I should be dropping several pounds a week. however my weight has not changed since the first week of April. weight loss was humming along, I even tried to compensate for my decrease in body weight (100lbs) by reducing my caloric intake from 2000 to 1700 then my loss slammed to a halt and has not moved since April 2015 after 8 months of unmitigated success.
Are my expectations to blame or is something else going on, because despite everything it seems I should be losing something!
the story so far:
August 2014, I was a 40 year old male, 6'1" tall and I weighed in at 400lbs living a totally sedentary lifestyle. I ate take out or delivery more often than I cooked at home and when I did cook it was usually ribs or something like that. Then, I am unsurprisingly diagnosed with type 2 Diabetes.
September 2014: I begin in earnest working to lose weight and control my blood sugar. My diet goes low(ish) carb and all my meals are prepared at home. I begin walking twice a day, short distances at first (quarter mile at best) and work up from there. my caloric intake is around 2000 per day with a BMR around 4500, so that's a 2500 deficit on average. I start losing about 5lbs a week.
January 2015: My diet and exercise is firing on all cylinders, I have lost 60lbs and at the end of December I completed a 6 mile hike. I start hiking every weekend, still walking 2 miles a day with Sundays as a rest day.
April 2015: By now I have lost another 40lbs, my weight is right around 301lbs and I am still hiking every weekend, and still walking every day, although the last 10 pounds came off really slowly and took almost 5 weeks. Thats fine, I adjust my caloric intake to 1700 a day average... BMR shows 3500 cals a day average, 4000 with exercise.
June 2015:... down to 298 after a week of camping and hiking (did 13 mile hike, a far cry from my inability to walk even a quarter mile with out rest back in September)... subsequent Abdominal Surgery lays me up for a few weeks.
July 2015: recovered from Surgery, weight up to 302, start jogging 2 miles a night.
August 2015:, no weight change, Start eating up to 2500 cals a day, start weight training 3x a week, still jogging on non weight training days. Caloric deficit still around 1000 to 1500 per day. (BMR 3500-4000)
September 2015:, weight bump up to 308, attribute to muscle increase... caloric intake still showing 1000 to 1500 deficit per day.
October 2015: drop daily cal goal to 2000 with excursions allowed to 2500 on weight training days for protein, Still deficit around 1000 to 1500 a day... no weight change despite physical improvements, weight training increased to 5x per week.
Okay, so I know that while weight training the rate of fat loss can be offset by muscle gain but everything i have read says it is much easier to burn fat than it is to gain muscle (which apparently can't be done if eating a deficit anyhow)... but after three months of training i would expect some positive weight change here... my weight fluctuates between 309 and 301 during the week. (today was 305, will be 301 by Friday and back to 308 on Monday)
I guess my question is should I still be patient and just carry on? is it still possible I am adding muscle at a rate which is off set by fat loss? Yes, my clothes fit better, my stomach is flatter, my chest, shoulder, legs and arms are bigger yet less flabby... I am not complaining about results but I am still a little perturbed that my body weight has not dropped any appreciable amount... remember, 4 months of no change before even starting weight training.
also, my scale (fitbit Aria) measures body fat %... it was going in the right direction, it had been in the 34 to 35% range through August then started dropping to the 31% range by October 1st and was consistent over a couple weeks (YAY!) but now its back up to 34% after just one weekend... so I don't know what to believe...
My goal is to get to around 225lbs so I have another 75 to go, I just need to figure out if I am somehow shooting myself in the foot and holding back progress through too much restriction or if my expectations simply need to be adjusted.
Thank You!
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Replies
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my husband weighs close to what you do, he is about 310. HE also works a very active job, and logs between 10,000 and 15,000 steps a day, so not sedentary at all. his start weight weight was 420. I will say that he eats between 1600 and 2000 calories a day (rarely the high end). and with that he loses about 2lbs a week. when he first started and was bigger the weight would come off a lot quicker, but now it does not. I think you are over estimating your BMR by quite a bit. His goal weight is 220ish, and he makes sure to NEVER eat above the maintenance for that weight, I forget what it is.
try eating lower calories for about a week, don't worry about workout calories and see what happens, I think once you see the ball rolling again you will get your motivation back! I suggest about 1700, just so you know you will see results.0 -
I am getting my BMR from my fitbit Surge and all other online calculators generally line up with it... I am not opposed to the notion that it could be wrong, I am just wary of eating too little...0
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First, congratulations on your weight loss and healthier lifestyle!
-Have you stuck with anything for a couple of months? Your chart shows constant changes, you need consistency in order to troubleshoot.
-Neither a two mile jog nor weight lifting are particularly high calorie burners, you certainly don't need an extra 500 calories to allocate for weight lifting.
-Are you weighing and measuring your food?
-Your fitbit Aria can't deal with fluctuations in water weight when calculating body fat%, which you are likely seeing.
-That brings us to another point: are you drinking plenty of water?
-Have you considered watching your sodium intake to know whether or not that is a factor?
-2000 calories is probably enough food to get proper nutrition, including protein, as long as you are actually focused on the nutrition by eating lots of veggies and lean meats. Given your previous diagnosis of diabetes, you should also be eating healthy fats that will help your blood fats be properly balanced for good heart health (ie, olive oil, almonds, avocados).
-Are you confusing BMR and TDEE? BMR is what your body burns just surviving, TDEE is an average daily expenditure that takes your activities into account.0 -
I had a problem when my weight loss plateaued. It would NOT go down for weeks and I got exasperated. I reduced my calories to below the recommended for weigh loss and it worked. The theory doesn't fit all. We are all individual people with differences using generic calculators and guides that have to cover their backsides with safe advice.
Try lowering your calories and work out what works for you.0 -
You are probably accidentally eating more than you think. If you don't have a digital kitchen scale, then I would recommend investing in one. Weigh all solids, and measure liquids.
When I feel like I need more protein, but don't want a lot more calories, then I just use grilled chicken. You can buy it frozen and precooked. 84 grams is around 100 calories, and about 20 grams of protein.0 -
concordancia wrote: »First, congratulations on your weight loss and healthier lifestyle!
-Have you stuck with anything for a couple of months? Your chart shows constant changes, you need consistency in order to troubleshoot.
-Neither a two mile jog nor weight lifting are particularly high calorie burners, you certainly don't need an extra 500 calories to allocate for weight lifting.
-Are you weighing and measuring your food?
-Your fitbit Aria can't deal with fluctuations in water weight when calculating body fat%, which you are likely seeing.
-That brings us to another point: are you drinking plenty of water?
-Have you considered watching your sodium intake to know whether or not that is a factor?
-2000 calories is probably enough food to get proper nutrition, including protein, as long as you are actually focused on the nutrition by eating lots of veggies and lean meats. Given your previous diagnosis of diabetes, you should also be eating healthy fats that will help your blood fats be properly balanced for good heart health (ie, olive oil, almonds, avocados).
-Are you confusing BMR and TDEE? BMR is what your body burns just surviving, TDEE is an average daily expenditure that takes your activities into account.
-yes, generally I make a change, let it sit for a few months before getting antsy and making more changes. from April to July i made virtually no changes to things, accepted that I might be at the dreaded "plateau" and let things ride for a couple months. I changed up from the Jogging because that was not a long term solution due to the stress on my knees. Plus, lean muscle mass burns more cals than fat... etc...
-all my food gets weighed and measured and when in doubt I always assume it is more than I think it is.
-Agreed on the Aria...i generally discount scale based body fat % measurements except to see a month to month trend... guess I just got excited when it started going down quickly
-not including coffee I drink on average about 2 liters a day, some days more, some less... I usually try for 3 liters.
- i know sodium can affect temporary increases in water weight, i try to limit to around 2000mg a day
I keep to 2000 a day on average, some days lower, some higher but not usually much higher, yes, my diet consists of all the things you mentioned
-Yes, i misspoke when referencing BMR, my BMR (stayed in bed all day) is 2300... my TDEE without exercise is around 3200, my exercise activity usually push my TDEE up to between 3500 and 4000.
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VykkDraygoVPR wrote: »You are probably accidentally eating more than you think. If you don't have a digital kitchen scale, then I would recommend investing in one. Weigh all solids, and measure liquids.
When I feel like I need more protein, but don't want a lot more calories, then I just use grilled chicken. You can buy it frozen and precooked. 84 grams is around 100 calories, and about 20 grams of protein.
I have a scale, everything gets weighed... that's how I was successful for the first 100lbs... I didn't change anything except slight reductions in caloric intake and the weight loss just stopped in its tracks...0 -
I have a scale, everything gets weighed... that's how I was successful for the first 100lbs... I didn't change anything except slight reductions in caloric intake and the weight loss just stopped in its tracks...
Are you still losing inches? It seems some people have long periods of stalls where they lose fat, but still retain water (so no perceptible loss). If you haven't been measuring, maybe start, and see if you notice any changes.
And is your diabetes well under control? My dad has diabetes (and a pacemaker). He can gain water weight like crazy if he isn't spot on with his blood sugar.
As far as gaining muscle, apparently if you have enough body fat, then you can still gain muscle in a deficit. It shouldn't be enough to offset fat loss though.0 -
VykkDraygoVPR wrote: »I have a scale, everything gets weighed... that's how I was successful for the first 100lbs... I didn't change anything except slight reductions in caloric intake and the weight loss just stopped in its tracks...
Are you still losing inches? It seems some people have long periods of stalls where they lose fat, but still retain water (so no perceptible loss). If you haven't been measuring, maybe start, and see if you notice any changes.
And is your diabetes well under control? My dad has diabetes (and a pacemaker). He can gain water weight like crazy if he isn't spot on with his blood sugar.
As far as gaining muscle, apparently if you have enough body fat, then you can still gain muscle in a deficit. It shouldn't be enough to offset fat loss though.
Yeah, my diabetes is well under control, my doctor took me off all my meds in August, my blood sugar is at or below 100 both after fasting as well as 2hrs after dinner.
I started measuring in September, my baseline was in February so there was a lot of change in those 7 months... i measured two weeks ago, my waist didn't change but the rest of my measure points had some changes, some grew some shrank...
There are changes but and that's my motivation right now but as you alluded to... in almost no situation should the addition of lean muscle mass exceed the loss of fat.
I guess i'll try cutting down my calories a bit further for a few weeks, see if that jump starts anything
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http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10012907/logging-accuracy-consistency-and-youre-probably-eating-more-than-you-think/p1
Above link would be the first place I'd start.
If you are accurate with your logging, could the abdominal surgery have anything to do with it? Seems to be the point at which the weight loss stopped. Have you spoken with your doctor about it?0 -
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10012907/logging-accuracy-consistency-and-youre-probably-eating-more-than-you-think/p1
Above link would be the first place I'd start.
If you are accurate with your logging, could the abdominal surgery have anything to do with it? Seems to be the point at which the weight loss stopped. Have you spoken with your doctor about it?
The weight loss stopped about two months prior to the surgery... it was a simple hernia repair and should not have gone any deeper than the outer muscular wall.0 -
I think you're (1) crediting too much calories to your current exercise and (2) could probably be more accurate with your logging.0
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4 months no change, means you are eating at maintenance. Could be you are simply overestimating your TDEE, and in the end, it does not matter where the error is. Lower your calories more.0
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4 months no change, means you are eating at maintenance. Could be you are simply overestimating your TDEE, and in the end, it does not matter where the error is. Lower your calories more.
Yes, this.
Can I just add my congratulations on your weight loss so far, and your exercising! You've done an amazing job.
Kudos also for being cautious about lowering your calorie limit too far. I think you'll do the right thing.0 -
I think you should meet your BMR at least once a week, preferably two. Then you could lower other days to offset that. If you had any idea of your lean mass, there are calculators more accurate for BMR for larger people, too. Even estimating it might help compared to the average calculators. ??
I do think eating below BMR for a long time may cause more metabolic adaptations than usual dieters have. I mean, that would be my 'concern'. It wouldn't hurt you because of your weight, but it could theoretically impede your progress to a certain extent. That's why I suggest a couple of days at BMR. It's a kind of calorie cycling and may be total woo based on speculation about the science, but that sort of thing is worth a small trial, imho. To me, anyway
I'm one who broke my plateaus (eating over BMR, btw) by calorie cycling, which also fit my natural habits nicely, so that's where I'm coming from. I don't mean the more extreme ones like intermittent fasting. I just mean some peaks and valleys in the week (or a week of higher calories alone then back to normal to nudge a plateau). Good luck!0 -
I think I can't overstate what a great job you've done making a full on lifestyle change! You rock! It's impressive.
It does sound sort of like you've hit a 'maintenance' spell unwittingly. I would look at my own measuring/logging first because I know how easy it is to develop little blind spots there. And maybe change up my physical activity a little by adding something unfamiliar. It's amazing how our bodies develop efficiency at the familiar & expected... You've already gotten lots of good advice about different tweaks. I'm really really impressed by your persistence at working through your plateau. That just shows a lot of grit. My hat off to you! xo0 -
Hey, I think you are in a similar place to where I have been in the past. I also hit a plateau and it was because at the gym I was mainly doing weight / resistance training. I switched to aerobic work, using a heart rate monitor to ensure I was working at the right level, and that calorie burn was being accurately measured, and the pounds started to come off again.
I have set my weight loss rate at a sustainable 1lb to 1.5lb per week, and with the odd exception, I have met that. I use a Garmin Vivofit2 to count steps and measure my HR during activities at the gym or out walking. I use MyFitnessPal to ruthlessly track every calorie I ingest, right down to a single humbug in a meeting.
My aerobic workout is basically time spent doing low impact work, for a minimum of an hour, at a heart rate between 120 and 140 bpm. I usually start on an elliptical/cross trainer for 20 minutes, then a rowing machine for 20 minutes, and then walking at speed (4mph or 6kph) on a treadmill, on a gradually reducing incline, for a minimum of 20 minutes but sometimes up to 40 minutes. If you gradually increase your pace, then push past what feels sustainable, hold that speed for 2 minutes, then drop down to the speed you was at just before that, suddenly, that previous speed feels easier. Hold that speed until your HR settles back a bit, then push beyond again. This is a real calorie burner and boredom beater.
I then use the VivoFit2 to ensure that I hit my daily step target of 11,000 steps. I will include in this the steps I do on a gym day. Sometimes I can come out of the gym with 9,000 steps showing from the workout. That means I can walk less, if I choose to, that day, and eat a little more. The VivoFit2 pretty accurately measures my calorie burn.
On a non gym day I will take a longer walk from the train station to the office, go for a good walk at lunch time or in the evening. At weekends I will take longer walks, and now, once a month, I go for a minimum 15 mile hike with my best friend.
This is all stuff I think I can sustain, even when I reach target weight. I started at 244 pounds in May, I'm at 213 pounds now and hope to get to around 200 pounds by the year end. My overall goal is somewhere around 180 pounds.
Prior to all these changes, I had lost weight, then reached a plateau, and then gained. For me, the winning formula has been switching from weight to aerobic training, combined with HR monitoring and accurate calorie burn measurement, whilst being rigorous about keeping that food diary.
Other tips I would offer:
1. Don't obsess on your weight day to day. Weigh yourself once or at most twice a week, always the same day and time, and graph your measurements to see progress. I use Apple Health on my iPhone.
2. Don't read too much into fat percentage readings off your scales. Use high end ones at your gym or your doctor's if that is an important measure for you.
3. Have a 'day off' from time to time.
4. Track your body measurements.
5. Buy yourself some nice clothes that fit your new shape and make you feel good.
6. Realise that YOU ROCK. You lost 100lbs man! This is just a blip. Never give up.
I really hope this all helps. None of this is science, it is just what has worked for me so far.0 -
I don't know what the common rates are for muscle increase a deficit, and muscle water retention due to repair after exercise, which could happen to anyone. Water retention should normally resolve within a few weeks. Even if it didn't, and your muscles consistently retain a few pounds of water, like you said, your fat loss should have overtaken it by now. Muscle increase in a deficit IMO is a poorly studied concept for lay people trying to lose weight, so I can't give you numbers.
As far as helping with your current situation, though, I'm surprised no one has asked: open up your diary so we can look through it and attempt to spot cases where you've logged less calories rather than normal/typical/more
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/diary_settings0
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