Please help me understand weight loss and nutrition
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@BogdanMih I also have goldfish crackers in my cupboard. Everything in moderation, eh?
I'm not a fan of the ''everything in moderation'' concept that most people use. When you eat mostly home cooked meals like you do for example, some cheats now and then are fine. I have my own ''everything in moderation'' concept where I advise people to enjoy those cheats in moderation, and use their common sense. Check the nutrition labels to avoid anything high in fats, sugars, and chemicals you can’t pronounce. If it has high contents of fats or sugars and you still want to eat it make sure you really "pay'' for that one. (ha ha, I'm joking).
Anyway, keep up the good work!
so you don't eat blueberries because high in sugar content?
can you pronounce all the ingredients in an apple?
what is wrong with fat?
Oh my god. Fruits are ok, people. I was not referring to fruits, i mean C'mon. The sugar in a fruit has a lot of fiber that makes the absorption time longer. Sugar from fruits is different.
You all took what i said like word for word. First of all, I said chemicals and I was talking about bad ingredients, mostly in processed foods. It was an expresion, like if you dont know what it is, look it up, but its probably bad. Im not even gonna answer the Apple question..
And I did not say something is wrong with fats. Fats are good for you, in a decent amount. But there are a lot of fat types, you have saturated fat, monosaturated, polysaturated, some are good, some are bad.
sorry, but the sugar in a blueberry is equal the sugar in a donut.
If I eat a donut and get my fiber from somewhere else, what does it matter where the sugar comes from?
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BogdanMih, you might as well give up. These, "I wanna eat cookies and pizza and lose weight and don't care if I'm healthy" folks will now nit pick every thing you say, all because you didn't say "What works for me". To them, it's all about what the scale says, period, not how healthy they are, and they are to close minded or are lacking the common sense to realize what processed means. You will need to remember to be very specific in everything you say on these forums.
To me the proof is in the pudding. FOR ME, cutting out chemically processed foods (Cookies, frozen pizza, soda, diet soda, potato chips, frozen microwave meals) and eating fresh whole foods (chicken breast, fresh veggies, whole wheat pasta's and bread ) instead has made it a lot easier to stay within my calorie count, which in turn has made it A LOT easier to get healthy, loose fat, look better, and loose weight.
FOR ME, when I see guys at the gym or talk to guys who are at a physical and fitness level I want to be at, I don't see them eating twinkies and pizza. I see them eating fresh whole foods, with minimal CHEMICAL processing.
Plus, Based on how you look BogdanMih, I'd say you know what your talking about...
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lemurcat12 wrote: »mysteps2beauty wrote: »DemoraFairy wrote: »Dont eat everything you want, a calorie deficit is not enough as long as you're still eating proccesed food. Here's my advice: Start eating good home cooked meals rich in protein as well as fats and carbs. Reduce sugar intake to almost none or at least 5-6 tspoons/day. Eat fruits. And one personal advice that I recommend when one wants to loose weight fast: use intermittent fasting. Google it, research it and apply it. Youre gonna feel great and you are gonna loose weight, trust me! Oh, and keep the calorie deficit, that is important too. Good luck!
...No. You don't need to cut out processed food, or reduce sugar. And you don't need intermittent fasting (I know you didn't say you need it, just saying). You just need a calorie deficit. You can still lose weight perfectly easily eating those things you've said to cut out.
I know you all want to belive that but I know what I'm saying. Processed food is bad. I tried both ways, a deficit in calories where I ate pretty much what i wanted to cover those calories and another one where I carefully cooked all my meals and reduced my sugar intake. The results were beyond comparison. You maybe say that because even if you eat processed food you probably don't gain that much fat (alotough I don't know that) Each of us burn calories at different rates and that is because of our lifestyle and our metabolism, which works different for each of us.
What I said above about reducing the sugar intake to 6 tsp/day was actualy what is recommended by the The American Heart Association.( And in my opinion I think it should be less)
As for Intermittent fasting, it's just something I tell people to try, it's really awesome once you get used to it.
Again, just my personal opinion. Don't get mad at me
I'm gonna have to agree with you!
All processed foods have "stuff" in them that the body does not recognize.
No they don't. (1) Are you using a unique definition of processed? Plain greek yogurt is processed. Flour is processed. Tofu is processed. Smoked salmon is processed, as is boneless, skinless chicken breast. (2) What does it mean for the body to "not recognize" something?The body tries, and eventually it does get digested.
We are much more likely to get fat from foods that are easy to digest. (Most highly processed foods, as well as sugar and fat, are quite easy to digest. Fiber is not.)
The rest about toxins and all is just bunk.
Exactly. Fiber takes a lot more time to be absorbed into the body, sugar is absorbed imediately and transformed into fat by the liver, also imediately. So what you are saying doesn't make sense.
All sugar gets stored immediately as fat? Huh? I thought sugars were carbohydrates (you know a source of energy). But you're saying that sugar is NEVER used as energy. OR perhaps nobody ever uses (or needs) energy from foods.
After any sugar is broken down into glucose (the most simple form of sugar).....does the sugar found in fruit (fructose)....does the sugar found in milk (maltose)....do these get treated differently than sucrose (table sugar)? Is our liver so "smart" that is can differentiate glucose (form fructose) vs. glucose (from sucrose)?
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mysteps2beauty wrote: »DemoraFairy wrote: »Dont eat everything you want, a calorie deficit is not enough as long as you're still eating proccesed food. Here's my advice: Start eating good home cooked meals rich in protein as well as fats and carbs. Reduce sugar intake to almost none or at least 5-6 tspoons/day. Eat fruits. And one personal advice that I recommend when one wants to loose weight fast: use intermittent fasting. Google it, research it and apply it. Youre gonna feel great and you are gonna loose weight, trust me! Oh, and keep the calorie deficit, that is important too. Good luck!
...No. You don't need to cut out processed food, or reduce sugar. And you don't need intermittent fasting (I know you didn't say you need it, just saying). You just need a calorie deficit. You can still lose weight perfectly easily eating those things you've said to cut out.
I know you all want to belive that but I know what I'm saying. Processed food is bad. I tried both ways, a deficit in calories where I ate pretty much what i wanted to cover those calories and another one where I carefully cooked all my meals and reduced my sugar intake. The results were beyond comparison. You maybe say that because even if you eat processed food you probably don't gain that much fat (alotough I don't know that) Each of us burn calories at different rates and that is because of our lifestyle and our metabolism, which works different for each of us.
What I said above about reducing the sugar intake to 6 tsp/day was actualy what is recommended by the The American Heart Association.( And in my opinion I think it should be less)
As for Intermittent fasting, it's just something I tell people to try, it's really awesome once you get used to it.
Again, just my personal opinion. Don't get mad at me
I'm gonna have to agree with you!
All processed foods have "stuff" in them that the body does not recognize. The body tries, and eventually it does get digested. But if your body is stuffed to the gills with this stuff, the body will then make a decision. It's first priority (via liver and kidneys) is to eliminate toxins. If the kidney gets overworked then it becomes the liver's responsibility to pick up the slack. That is why water is so important -- it's a vehicle to wash away the toxins. No water then you are in trouble. When the liver gets overwhelmed it starts making fat deposits, to cache as it were all the excess calories to so that it can focus on getting the toxins out of the body first. So when you keep eating processed food, day in and day out well you're gonna have a hard time loosing weight, not impossible but definitely a slow down. Young people think they can eat like this forever, but each person's body will decide. Remember that guy who ate nothing but McDonalds for a month? Not only did he get overweight, his body was literally ready to shut down!
(and read up on how the body processes alcohol...fascinating...the body considers it a toxin and it will do everything to get it processed first before that first bit of fat.....if you're gonna drink make sure you have twice the calorie deficit so that you can still see some weight lost...)
So what do you have to lose (some pounds)? Try it. Cannot hurt. Just try for one week and see what results you will get. And make sure you drink lots of water every day. Come back and report.
Sources, please. Completely legit nerd asking for studies.
I completely understand. As one nerd to the other, I search on the internet and glean the data that supports other data. As I said, look up how alcohol is processed by the body....it makes so much sense, and will lead you to other data.
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mtbiker1069 wrote: »BogdanMih, you might as well give up. These, "I wanna eat cookies and pizza and lose weight and don't care if I'm healthy" folks will now nit pick every thing you say, all because you didn't say "What works for me". To them, it's all about what the scale says, period, not how healthy they are, and they are to close minded or are lacking the common sense to realize what processed means. You will need to remember to be very specific in everything you say on these forums.
To me the proof is in the pudding. FOR ME, cutting out chemically processed foods (Cookies, frozen pizza, soda, diet soda, potato chips, frozen microwave meals) and eating fresh whole foods (chicken breast, fresh veggies, whole wheat pasta's and bread ) instead has made it a lot easier to stay within my calorie count, which in turn has made it A LOT easier to get healthy, loose fat, look better, and loose weight.
FOR ME, when I see guys at the gym or talk to guys who are at a physical and fitness level I want to be at, I don't see them eating twinkies and pizza. I see them eating fresh whole foods, with minimal CHEMICAL processing.
Plus, Based on how you look BogdanMih, I'd say you know what your talking about...
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mtbiker1069 wrote: »BogdanMih, you might as well give up. These, "I wanna eat cookies and pizza and lose weight and don't care if I'm healthy" folks will now nit pick every thing you say, all because you didn't say "What works for me". To them, it's all about what the scale says, period, not how healthy they are, and they are to close minded or are lacking the common sense to realize what processed means. You will need to remember to be very specific in everything you say on these forums.
To me the proof is in the pudding. FOR ME, cutting out chemically processed foods (Cookies, frozen pizza, soda, diet soda, potato chips, frozen microwave meals) and eating fresh whole foods (chicken breast, fresh veggies, whole wheat pasta's and bread ) instead has made it a lot easier to stay within my calorie count, which in turn has made it A LOT easier to get healthy and loose fat.
FOR ME, when I see guys at the gym or talk to guys who are at a physical and fitness level I want to be at, I don't see them eating twinkies and pizza. I see them eating fresh whole foods, with minimal CHEMICAL processing.
Plus, Based on how you look BogdanMih, I'd say you know what your talking about...
nice strawman argument about people wanting to eat pizza and cookies and not be healthy. Where did anyone in this thread say that they want to eat pizza all day and don't care about health. If you eat pizza AND meet your micronutrient needs, does that mean that said person is unhealthy, because pizza? And when did pizza become unhealthy? It just contains fat, carbs, and protein, are you saying that those three macros are not healthy?
so you follow around these people that you see at the gym and record every single thing they eat? Before I started bulking I was 13% body fat, and my diet included pizza and cookies, in moderation, but I guess I am not healthy. I can also pull a 380 pound deadlift, but I guess I am not at an adequate fitness level, because pizza...0 -
mtbiker1069 wrote: »To them, it's all about what the scale says, period, not how healthy they are, and they are to close minded or are lacking the common sense to realize what processed means.
This is offensive -- having different ideas about what's a healthy balanced diet than you do means that we don't care about health?
It's also a willful and rude misreading of the conversation.
Lots of processed foods are no different in nutrients or basic ingredients than homemade or non processed alternatives. Again, I listed a number of processed foods I think add to the healthiness of my diet.
Whole wheat pasta and boneless, skinless chicken breast are processed foods, under any definition. And I personally eat them also and think they are good for me.
Homemade cookies and baked goods can be just as caloric and bad for weight loss (if not fit into your overall calories and diet in a sensible, moderate way) as anything storebought. "Processing" is not the issue, especially since people who claim processed food is inherently bad seem to have a million different personal meanings for it.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »mysteps2beauty wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »mysteps2beauty wrote: »DemoraFairy wrote: »Dont eat everything you want, a calorie deficit is not enough as long as you're still eating proccesed food. Here's my advice: Start eating good home cooked meals rich in protein as well as fats and carbs. Reduce sugar intake to almost none or at least 5-6 tspoons/day. Eat fruits. And one personal advice that I recommend when one wants to loose weight fast: use intermittent fasting. Google it, research it and apply it. Youre gonna feel great and you are gonna loose weight, trust me! Oh, and keep the calorie deficit, that is important too. Good luck!
...No. You don't need to cut out processed food, or reduce sugar. And you don't need intermittent fasting (I know you didn't say you need it, just saying). You just need a calorie deficit. You can still lose weight perfectly easily eating those things you've said to cut out.
I know you all want to belive that but I know what I'm saying. Processed food is bad. I tried both ways, a deficit in calories where I ate pretty much what i wanted to cover those calories and another one where I carefully cooked all my meals and reduced my sugar intake. The results were beyond comparison. You maybe say that because even if you eat processed food you probably don't gain that much fat (alotough I don't know that) Each of us burn calories at different rates and that is because of our lifestyle and our metabolism, which works different for each of us.
What I said above about reducing the sugar intake to 6 tsp/day was actualy what is recommended by the The American Heart Association.( And in my opinion I think it should be less)
As for Intermittent fasting, it's just something I tell people to try, it's really awesome once you get used to it.
Again, just my personal opinion. Don't get mad at me
I'm gonna have to agree with you!
All processed foods have "stuff" in them that the body does not recognize. The body tries, and eventually it does get digested. But if your body is stuffed to the gills with this stuff, the body will then make a decision. It's first priority (via liver and kidneys) is to eliminate toxins. If the kidney gets overworked then it becomes the liver's responsibility to pick up the slack. That is why water is so important -- it's a vehicle to wash away the toxins. No water then you are in trouble. When the liver gets overwhelmed it starts making fat deposits, to cache as it were to get the toxins stored that it cannot deal with right then and there. So when you keep eating processed food, day in and day out well you're gonna have a hard time loosing weight, not impossible but definitely a slow down. Young people think they can eat like this forever, but each person's body will decide. Remember that guy who ate nothing but McDonalds for a month? Not only did he get overweight, his body was literally ready to shut down!
(and read up on how the body processes alcohol...fascinating...the body considers it a toxin and it will do everything to get it processed first before that first bit of fat.....if you're gonna drink make sure you have twice the calorie deficit so that you can still see some weight lost...)
So what do you have to lose (some pounds)? Try it. Cannot hurt. Just try for one week and see what results you will get. And make sure you drink lots of water every day. Come back and report.
What "stuff" in "processed food" does the body not recognize? Why does your body have to "recognize" something in order to digest it?
That stuff about alcohol, by the way, is completely false. I drank almost daily when I was losing weight, stayed right at my deficit, and lost weight regularly. Whether your body processes the calories first or last is irrelevant -- you don't need an extra deficit if you are drinking alcohol.
....and I'm gonna guess you are younger than 40, possibly younger than 30? When I was younger, I would drink like crazy and still could not gain weight. I could party like nobody. As I got older, it got harder to lose the lbs AND drink.
I'm 36. I didn't drink like crazy, I just logged the calories like any other food. Was your advice about doubling the deficit meant for those over age 30 or age 40 only? If so, maybe you should specify that.
Is this advice about a double deficit just based on your personal experience?
You know, I should have said WHAT WORKS FOR ME like another poster has mentioned. I love my wine, but when I drink it, and the rest of my daily calories, for a week, I gain. I change nothing else but the amount of wine I have. When I don't drink it, boy pounds just fall off. This caused me to read up on the effects of alcohol on the body. It's very interesting reading, and having experienced it first hand, well I'm gonna agree, that it WORKS FOR ME.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »mysteps2beauty wrote: »DemoraFairy wrote: »Dont eat everything you want, a calorie deficit is not enough as long as you're still eating proccesed food. Here's my advice: Start eating good home cooked meals rich in protein as well as fats and carbs. Reduce sugar intake to almost none or at least 5-6 tspoons/day. Eat fruits. And one personal advice that I recommend when one wants to loose weight fast: use intermittent fasting. Google it, research it and apply it. Youre gonna feel great and you are gonna loose weight, trust me! Oh, and keep the calorie deficit, that is important too. Good luck!
...No. You don't need to cut out processed food, or reduce sugar. And you don't need intermittent fasting (I know you didn't say you need it, just saying). You just need a calorie deficit. You can still lose weight perfectly easily eating those things you've said to cut out.
I know you all want to belive that but I know what I'm saying. Processed food is bad. I tried both ways, a deficit in calories where I ate pretty much what i wanted to cover those calories and another one where I carefully cooked all my meals and reduced my sugar intake. The results were beyond comparison. You maybe say that because even if you eat processed food you probably don't gain that much fat (alotough I don't know that) Each of us burn calories at different rates and that is because of our lifestyle and our metabolism, which works different for each of us.
What I said above about reducing the sugar intake to 6 tsp/day was actualy what is recommended by the The American Heart Association.( And in my opinion I think it should be less)
As for Intermittent fasting, it's just something I tell people to try, it's really awesome once you get used to it.
Again, just my personal opinion. Don't get mad at me
I'm gonna have to agree with you!
All processed foods have "stuff" in them that the body does not recognize.
No they don't. (1) Are you using a unique definition of processed? Plain greek yogurt is processed. Flour is processed. Tofu is processed. Smoked salmon is processed, as is boneless, skinless chicken breast. (2) What does it mean for the body to "not recognize" something?The body tries, and eventually it does get digested.
We are much more likely to get fat from foods that are easy to digest. (Most highly processed foods, as well as sugar and fat, are quite easy to digest. Fiber is not.)
The rest about toxins and all is just bunk.
Exactly. Fiber takes a lot more time to be absorbed into the body, sugar is absorbed imediately and transformed into fat by the liver, also imediately. So what you are saying doesn't make sense.
All sugar gets stored immediately as fat? Huh? I thought sugars were carbohydrates (you know a source of energy). But you're saying that sugar is NEVER used as energy. OR perhaps nobody ever uses (or needs) energy from foods.
After any sugar is broken down into glucose (the most simple form of sugar).....does the sugar found in fruit (fructose)....does the sugar found in milk (maltose)....do these get treated differently than sucrose (table sugar)? Is our liver so "smart" that is can differentiate glucose (form fructose) vs. glucose (from sucrose)?
Did i say "all" sugar? No. I was simply talking about a case where a high amount of sugar is received by the body. That was the subject - sugar over the limit - Those 6 teaspoons/day I mentioned in earlier posts are more than enough for energy source.
I'm not gonna repeat myself im every single post.
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mysteps2beauty wrote: »What is one of the first things people do when they find out they have cancer, they change the the foods they eat from processed to organic. And to be frank the raw food diet has an amazing affect on the body. Food is medicine.
Now, you can keep eating the processed stuff if you want to, and sometimes I get weak at the knees and imbibe...it does taste good (and there is a reason for that) but I know it's not the prime way to feed this organisim without some dire results.
NOPE. My dad was diagnosed with colon cancer March 2014. Only diet change he made: no more eggs over easy (runny, raw yoke) and medium steaks. The one huge change to his body: 6 weeks of daily chemo and radiation, you know, poison used to kill the body's cells. A year and half later (and a couple surgeries) he's cancer free thanks to his doctors and their "chemicals". No way in hell eating organic would have removed his cancer...0 -
mysteps2beauty wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »mysteps2beauty wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »mysteps2beauty wrote: »DemoraFairy wrote: »Dont eat everything you want, a calorie deficit is not enough as long as you're still eating proccesed food. Here's my advice: Start eating good home cooked meals rich in protein as well as fats and carbs. Reduce sugar intake to almost none or at least 5-6 tspoons/day. Eat fruits. And one personal advice that I recommend when one wants to loose weight fast: use intermittent fasting. Google it, research it and apply it. Youre gonna feel great and you are gonna loose weight, trust me! Oh, and keep the calorie deficit, that is important too. Good luck!
...No. You don't need to cut out processed food, or reduce sugar. And you don't need intermittent fasting (I know you didn't say you need it, just saying). You just need a calorie deficit. You can still lose weight perfectly easily eating those things you've said to cut out.
I know you all want to belive that but I know what I'm saying. Processed food is bad. I tried both ways, a deficit in calories where I ate pretty much what i wanted to cover those calories and another one where I carefully cooked all my meals and reduced my sugar intake. The results were beyond comparison. You maybe say that because even if you eat processed food you probably don't gain that much fat (alotough I don't know that) Each of us burn calories at different rates and that is because of our lifestyle and our metabolism, which works different for each of us.
What I said above about reducing the sugar intake to 6 tsp/day was actualy what is recommended by the The American Heart Association.( And in my opinion I think it should be less)
As for Intermittent fasting, it's just something I tell people to try, it's really awesome once you get used to it.
Again, just my personal opinion. Don't get mad at me
I'm gonna have to agree with you!
All processed foods have "stuff" in them that the body does not recognize. The body tries, and eventually it does get digested. But if your body is stuffed to the gills with this stuff, the body will then make a decision. It's first priority (via liver and kidneys) is to eliminate toxins. If the kidney gets overworked then it becomes the liver's responsibility to pick up the slack. That is why water is so important -- it's a vehicle to wash away the toxins. No water then you are in trouble. When the liver gets overwhelmed it starts making fat deposits, to cache as it were to get the toxins stored that it cannot deal with right then and there. So when you keep eating processed food, day in and day out well you're gonna have a hard time loosing weight, not impossible but definitely a slow down. Young people think they can eat like this forever, but each person's body will decide. Remember that guy who ate nothing but McDonalds for a month? Not only did he get overweight, his body was literally ready to shut down!
(and read up on how the body processes alcohol...fascinating...the body considers it a toxin and it will do everything to get it processed first before that first bit of fat.....if you're gonna drink make sure you have twice the calorie deficit so that you can still see some weight lost...)
So what do you have to lose (some pounds)? Try it. Cannot hurt. Just try for one week and see what results you will get. And make sure you drink lots of water every day. Come back and report.
What "stuff" in "processed food" does the body not recognize? Why does your body have to "recognize" something in order to digest it?
That stuff about alcohol, by the way, is completely false. I drank almost daily when I was losing weight, stayed right at my deficit, and lost weight regularly. Whether your body processes the calories first or last is irrelevant -- you don't need an extra deficit if you are drinking alcohol.
....and I'm gonna guess you are younger than 40, possibly younger than 30? When I was younger, I would drink like crazy and still could not gain weight. I could party like nobody. As I got older, it got harder to lose the lbs AND drink.
I'm 36. I didn't drink like crazy, I just logged the calories like any other food. Was your advice about doubling the deficit meant for those over age 30 or age 40 only? If so, maybe you should specify that.
Is this advice about a double deficit just based on your personal experience?
You know, I should have said WHAT WORKS FOR ME like another poster has mentioned. I love my wine, but when I drink it, and the rest of my daily calories, for a week, nothing budges, in fact I gain. I change nothing else but the amount of wine I have. When I don't drink it, boy pounds just fall off. This caused me to read up on the effects of alcohol on the body. It's very interesting reading, and having experienced it first hand, well I'm gonna agree, that it WORKS FOR ME.
that just means that when you drink you either drinking yourself into a caloric surplus, or you are suffering from bloat/irritation when you weigh in.
if you drink in a calorie deficit you will lose weight, period.0 -
mtbiker1069 wrote: »BogdanMih, you might as well give up. These, "I wanna eat cookies and pizza and lose weight and don't care if I'm healthy" folks will now nit pick every thing you say, all because you didn't say "What works for me". To them, it's all about what the scale says, period, not how healthy they are, and they are to close minded or are lacking the common sense to realize what processed means. You will need to remember to be very specific in everything you say on these forums.
To me the proof is in the pudding. FOR ME, cutting out chemically processed foods (Cookies, frozen pizza, soda, diet soda, potato chips, frozen microwave meals) and eating fresh whole foods (chicken breast, fresh veggies, whole wheat pasta's and bread ) instead has made it a lot easier to stay within my calorie count, which in turn has made it A LOT easier to get healthy, loose fat, look better, and loose weight.
FOR ME, when I see guys at the gym or talk to guys who are at a physical and fitness level I want to be at, I don't see them eating twinkies and pizza. I see them eating fresh whole foods, with minimal CHEMICAL processing.
Plus, Based on how you look BogdanMih, I'd say you know what your talking about...
Just because I disagree with you and think that pizza can be a legitimate meal (how is it automatically worse than, say, pasta with tomato sauce?), I don't care about my health? That's pretty ridiculous.0 -
nice strawman argument about people wanting to eat pizza and cookies and not be healthy. Where did anyone in this thread say that they want to eat pizza all day and don't care about health. If you eat pizza AND meet your micronutrient needs, does that mean that said person is unhealthy, because pizza? And when did pizza become unhealthy? It just contains fat, carbs, and protein, are you saying that those three macros are not healthy?
so you follow around these people that you see at the gym and record every single thing they eat? Before I started bulking I was 13% body fat, and my diet included pizza and cookies, in moderation, but I guess I am not healthy. I can also pull a 380 pound deadlift, but I guess I am not at an adequate fitness level, because pizza...
I never said anyone wanted to eat pizza all day, did I? NO, so please quit putting word in my... post...
I never said a Pizza was unhealthy, did I. I said what works for me is that I cut out Frozen Pizza because of the chemicals, that's all. (Edit: I will say that if you eat pizza regularly as part of your daily diet, that's not healthy, but that depends on what's on it. Of course a meat lovers is not as healthy as a veggie pizza, just so you know. Don't get upset, I'm just being as absolutely specific as I can)
Yes, I do talk to people about their diets. Are you saying I shouldn't? So why does this forum even exist? Is there something wrong with the fact that I talk people about what they do to be healthy?
I can pull at 410 lb deadlift, so, fresh whole foods seem to be working ok for me too.
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mtbiker1069 wrote: »BogdanMih, you might as well give up. These, "I wanna eat cookies and pizza and lose weight and don't care if I'm healthy" folks will now nit pick every thing you say, all because you didn't say "What works for me". To them, it's all about what the scale says, period, not how healthy they are, and they are to close minded or are lacking the common sense to realize what processed means. You will need to remember to be very specific in everything you say on these forums.
To me the proof is in the pudding. FOR ME, cutting out chemically processed foods (Cookies, frozen pizza, soda, diet soda, potato chips, frozen microwave meals) and eating fresh whole foods (chicken breast, fresh veggies, whole wheat pasta's and bread ) instead has made it a lot easier to stay within my calorie count, which in turn has made it A LOT easier to get healthy, loose fat, look better, and loose weight.
FOR ME, when I see guys at the gym or talk to guys who are at a physical and fitness level I want to be at, I don't see them eating twinkies and pizza. I see them eating fresh whole foods, with minimal CHEMICAL processing.
Plus, Based on how you look BogdanMih, I'd say you know what your talking about...
Thanks, man
I'm really just trying to share info, not force anyone into anything.
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mtbiker1069 wrote: »
I've been lurking on here for a while not saying anything, but isn't this just a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black?
It seems that you are arguing a point that you insist must be right with no regard for other opinions, which is pretty much exactly what you are accusing others of doing.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »mtbiker1069 wrote: »To them, it's all about what the scale says, period, not how healthy they are, and they are to close minded or are lacking the common sense to realize what processed means.
This is offensive -- having different ideas about what's a healthy balanced diet than you do means that we don't care about health?
It's also a willful and rude misreading of the conversation.
Lots of processed foods are no different in nutrients or basic ingredients than homemade or non processed alternatives. Again, I listed a number of processed foods I think add to the healthiness of my diet.
Whole wheat pasta and boneless, skinless chicken breast are processed foods, under any definition. And I personally eat them also and think they are good for me.
Homemade cookies and baked goods can be just as caloric and bad for weight loss (if not fit into your overall calories and diet in a sensible, moderate way) as anything storebought. "Processing" is not the issue, especially since people who claim processed food is inherently bad seem to have a million different personal meanings for it.
I can attest to this. My husband was a fine dining chef and now he's a stay-at-home dad who cooks three meals a day at home. We've put many of his recipes into MFP, and there's honestly not much of a difference between what we'd get at a restaurant vs. what he cooks at home. In fact, his organic, grass-fed burger with gruyere on whole grain bread (this was lunch today) has more fat and calories than a quarter pounder with cheese. We prefer his burger because it tastes better, but it's definitely not any healthier than the more "processed" version you'd get at McDonald's.0 -
BecomingBane wrote: »
I've been lurking on here for a while not saying anything, but isn't this just a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black?
It seems that you are arguing a point that you insist must be right with no regard for other opinions, which is pretty much exactly what you are accusing others of doing.
Yeah, probably is, but in sharing our opinion of how we feel about healthy eating, we get nit picked to death. OP asked a question, BogdanMih answers with his opinion, and he gets pummeled for sharing. Happens every time someone suggests eating "clean".0 -
mtbiker1069 wrote: »
nice strawman argument about people wanting to eat pizza and cookies and not be healthy. Where did anyone in this thread say that they want to eat pizza all day and don't care about health. If you eat pizza AND meet your micronutrient needs, does that mean that said person is unhealthy, because pizza? And when did pizza become unhealthy? It just contains fat, carbs, and protein, are you saying that those three macros are not healthy?
so you follow around these people that you see at the gym and record every single thing they eat? Before I started bulking I was 13% body fat, and my diet included pizza and cookies, in moderation, but I guess I am not healthy. I can also pull a 380 pound deadlift, but I guess I am not at an adequate fitness level, because pizza...
I never said anyone wanted to eat pizza all day, did I? NO, so please quit putting word in my... post...
I never said a Pizza was unhealthy, did I. I said what works for me is that I cut out Frozen Pizza because of the chemicals, that's all. (Edit: I will say that if you eat pizza regularly as part of your daily diet, that's not healthy, but that depends on what's on it. Of course a meat lovers is not as healthy as a veggie pizza, just so you know. Don't get upset, I'm just being as absolutely specific as I can)
Yes, I do talk to people about their diets. Are you saying I shouldn't? So why does this forum even exist? Is there something wrong with the fact that I talk people about what they do to be healthy?
I can pull at 410 lb deadlift, so, fresh whole foods seem to be working ok for me too.
I never said all day in my sentence, but here is the copy and paste version from my OP - "nice strawman argument about people wanting to eat pizza and cookies and not be healthy." yes, it is a strawman argument because no one is saying eat pizza and disregard nutrition. The argument is that you can eat pizza and make it a part of an overall healthy diet.
So these people at the gym that you know gave you a run down of every single food they consume over an average week???
My point is that there are plenty of people in the gym who eat pizza, twinkies, etc, and have no issue with their fitness level. The implication of your post is that if you eat those foods that ones gym performance will somehow be less than adequate to someone that eats "clean" foods, which is utterly ridiculous. Layne Norton can squat over 500 pounds and I am pretty sure he eats pizza and twinkies as part of his overall diet.0 -
I never said all day in my sentence, but here is the copy and paste version from my OP - "nice strawman argument about people wanting to eat pizza and cookies and not be healthy." yes, it is a strawman argument because no one is saying eat pizza and disregard nutrition. The argument is that you can eat pizza and make it a part of an overall healthy diet.
So these people at the gym that you know gave you a run down of every single food they consume over an average week???
My point is that there are plenty of people in the gym who eat pizza, twinkies, etc, and have no issue with their fitness level. The implication of your post is that if you eat those foods that ones gym performance will somehow be less than adequate to someone that eats "clean" foods, which is utterly ridiculous. Layne Norton can squat over 500 pounds and I am pretty sure he eats pizza and twinkies as part of his overall diet.
Yes, you did say "all day". Look at the quote in my post.... I took that before you edited your post...
Actually, yes, these people at the gym do give me a run down of every single food they consume. It's called the MFP Food Diary.
Did I ever say never eat pizza? Did I ever say never eat twinkies? Or Cookies? No, I did not.
I am saying WHAT WORKs FOR ME is that it is easier to stay within my calorie count which makes it easier for me to get healthy, loose fat, look better, and loose weight, by not eating pizza, twinkies and cookies. See what it say WHAT WORKS FOR ME????? Also note that I never, ever said that I never eat these things.
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What do you consider processed food? I eat processed lunch meat all day, everyday. I eat bread, tortillas, sliced sandwich cheese that is processed(if this is what you consider processed) and i look the way my profile picture looks. As long as i meet my macronutrient goals and stay within my calorie allowance the food i eat can be all processed.0
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kshama2001 wrote: »@BogdanMih and @mysteps2beauty technically, if I pick a strawberry from my garden and throw it in the freezer I have processed it, so here on the MFP forums I say Ultra Processed and refer to the Brazilian definition.
Short version: http://www.fao.org/nutrition/education/food-dietary-guidelines/regions/brazil/en/
Full doc: http://189.28.128.100/dab/docs/portaldab/publicacoes/guia_alimentar_populacao_ingles.pdf
The word processed can mean a lot of things when it comes to food. I find it hard to belive that you didn't get the point from all these posts.
Alas, you have missed my point, which was how to cut down on semantics arguments about processed foods on the MFP forums.0 -
...I never said all day in my sentence, but here is the copy and paste version from my OP - "nice strawman argument about people wanting to eat pizza and cookies and not be healthy." yes, it is a strawman argument because no one is saying eat pizza and disregard nutrition. The argument is that you can eat pizza and make it a part of an overall healthy diet...
The problem is that many "clean eating" fanatics suffer from binary thinking. They apparently can't grasp the possibility that one could eat in moderation - you're either 100% "clean" with nothing but organic vegetables, rainwater collected by hand from the Himalayas and unicorn poop, or you're sitting around stuffing your face with Twinkies, pizza and TV dinners all day, every day. It's one or the other, there couldn't possibly be any middle ground.
I'd love for Bogdan Mih to explain to us the process by which "bad" carbohydrates completely bypass the glucose/glycogen conversion and go straight to de novo lipogenesis, especially in a caloric deficit. I must have missed the lesson about the digestive process pronouncing judgments of "good" and "bad" on carbohydrates as they come in.
I'd also like to hear more from the other poster about "stuff the body doesn't recognize" in processed foods and the process by which said "stuff" turns into teh toxinzzz. I'd love to see the list/database of "stuff" our body recognizes - over several million years of dietary change/evolution, I imagine it's built quite an impressive list and proven itself capable of recognizing new things.0 -
To me, anything with added Chemicals: Products with artificial sweeteners, taste additives (MSG), partially hydrogenated vegetable shortening and margarine to name a few.
Not being a smart A here, but I probably should start specifying it by saying Chemically processed rather that processed.
To ME, bread, tortilla's, cheese, cured lunch meat, natural greek yogurt, beer, wine, bourban, while processed, is still made by natural processes and ingredients like yeast and active cultures that are natural.
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mysteps2beauty wrote: »...Remember that guy who ate nothing but McDonalds for a month? Not only did he get overweight, his body was literally ready to shut down!...
Remember that guy who ate Twinkies and junk food for 2 1/2 months? Not only did he lose 27 lbs., but his HDL/LDL ratio improved by 20% and his triglycerides were down by 30%. Twinkie Diet Helps Nutrition Professor Lose 27 pounds
I'm not advocating a junk food diet - merely offering a counterpoint to the "clean eating" propaganda that the body will shut down and wither away seconds after anything "unclean" passes your lips.0 -
mysteps2beauty wrote: »...Remember that guy who ate nothing but McDonalds for a month? Not only did he get overweight, his body was literally ready to shut down!...
Remember that guy who ate Twinkies and junk food for 2 1/2 months? Not only did he lose 27 lbs., but his HDL/LDL ratio improved by 20% and his triglycerides were down by 30%. Twinkie Diet Helps Nutrition Professor Lose 27 pounds
I'm not advocating a junk food diet - merely offering a counterpoint to the "clean eating" propaganda that the body will shut down and wither away seconds after anything "unclean" passes your lips.
Don't forget the more recent McDonalds guy. http://www.today.com/health/man-loses-56-pounds-after-eating-only-mcdonalds-six-months-2D79329158
Also not saying it's the most nutritious, just that weight loss is possible while improving health markers. Definitely not saying it's something to emulate. It was an experiment designed to prove how little we really know about this whole process, and it was successful, but that does not make it sound science.... just an experiment.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »mysteps2beauty wrote: »DemoraFairy wrote: »Dont eat everything you want, a calorie deficit is not enough as long as you're still eating proccesed food. Here's my advice: Start eating good home cooked meals rich in protein as well as fats and carbs. Reduce sugar intake to almost none or at least 5-6 tspoons/day. Eat fruits. And one personal advice that I recommend when one wants to loose weight fast: use intermittent fasting. Google it, research it and apply it. Youre gonna feel great and you are gonna loose weight, trust me! Oh, and keep the calorie deficit, that is important too. Good luck!
...No. You don't need to cut out processed food, or reduce sugar. And you don't need intermittent fasting (I know you didn't say you need it, just saying). You just need a calorie deficit. You can still lose weight perfectly easily eating those things you've said to cut out.
I know you all want to belive that but I know what I'm saying. Processed food is bad. I tried both ways, a deficit in calories where I ate pretty much what i wanted to cover those calories and another one where I carefully cooked all my meals and reduced my sugar intake. The results were beyond comparison. You maybe say that because even if you eat processed food you probably don't gain that much fat (alotough I don't know that) Each of us burn calories at different rates and that is because of our lifestyle and our metabolism, which works different for each of us.
What I said above about reducing the sugar intake to 6 tsp/day was actualy what is recommended by the The American Heart Association.( And in my opinion I think it should be less)
As for Intermittent fasting, it's just something I tell people to try, it's really awesome once you get used to it.
Again, just my personal opinion. Don't get mad at me
I'm gonna have to agree with you!
All processed foods have "stuff" in them that the body does not recognize.
No they don't. (1) Are you using a unique definition of processed? Plain greek yogurt is processed. Flour is processed. Tofu is processed. Smoked salmon is processed, as is boneless, skinless chicken breast. (2) What does it mean for the body to "not recognize" something?The body tries, and eventually it does get digested.
We are much more likely to get fat from foods that are easy to digest. (Most highly processed foods, as well as sugar and fat, are quite easy to digest. Fiber is not.)
The rest about toxins and all is just bunk.
Exactly. Fiber takes a lot more time to be absorbed into the body, sugar is absorbed imediately and transformed into fat by the liver, also imediately. So what you are saying doesn't make sense.
All sugar gets stored immediately as fat? Huh? I thought sugars were carbohydrates (you know a source of energy). But you're saying that sugar is NEVER used as energy. OR perhaps nobody ever uses (or needs) energy from foods.
After any sugar is broken down into glucose (the most simple form of sugar).....does the sugar found in fruit (fructose)....does the sugar found in milk (maltose)....do these get treated differently than sucrose (table sugar)? Is our liver so "smart" that is can differentiate glucose (form fructose) vs. glucose (from sucrose)?
Did i say "all" sugar? No. I was simply talking about a case where a high amount of sugar is received by the body. That was the subject - sugar over the limit - Those 6 teaspoons/day I mentioned in earlier posts are more than enough for energy source.
I'm not gonna repeat myself im every single post.
I want to see the person whose sole energy requirements over the whole day are 6 x 5 grams = 30 grams, times 4 calories = 120 calories.0 -
BecomingBane wrote: »Don't forget the more recent McDonalds guy. http://www.today.com/health/man-loses-56-pounds-after-eating-only-mcdonalds-six-months-2D79329158
Also not saying it's the most nutritious, just that weight loss is possible while improving health markers. Definitely not saying it's something to emulate. It was an experiment designed to prove how little we really know about this whole process, and it was successful, but that does not make it sound science.... just an experiment.
Not to mention the study in which they analyzed the body's hormonal response to a fast food meal compared to a "healthy" meal: Hormonal Responses to a Fast Food Meal
Again, not advocating for eating junk all the time, but science has shown that, contrary to the "100% clean eating" dogma, your body doesn't fill up with teh poizonzz and bloat up like a balloon just because you eat something that doesn't meet somebody's definition of "clean". As others have said numerous times in this thread (and in thousands of similar threads before it), moderation is the key. Context and dosage matter.0 -
@AnvilHead I don't remember every seeing a thread where someone said you have to eat clean 100% of the time with out ever "cheating" with "unclean" foods to be able to loose weight.
I'd like to read that, could you please point me to those comments or a thread?
Completely agree about Moderation is key!0 -
mtbiker1069 wrote: »To me, anything with added Chemicals: Products with artificial sweeteners, taste additives (MSG), partially hydrogenated vegetable shortening and margarine to name a few.
Not being a smart A here, but I probably should start specifying it by saying Chemically processed rather that processed.
To ME, bread, tortilla's, cheese, cured lunch meat, natural greek yogurt, beer, wine, bourban, while processed, is still made by natural processes and ingredients like yeast and active cultures that are natural.
I consumer over 30 packets of Splenda and/or Equal a day, I use artificial flavor enhancers and liquid stevia sweeteners all day, everyday. I use Xanthan Gum, Walden Farm products, etc which are all chemically enhanced. While it may not be healthy, it does not hinder my body composition. These are two different things.0
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