Tendonitis all over - is it nutrition relation?
DapperKay
Posts: 140 Member
Hi all,
Does weight loss and nutrition affect the tendons directly?
Over the past five years I have dropped around 50kg (110lbs / 8 stones) and went from overweight to just perfect for my age and height. This was done through a combination of exercise and calorie control. In the last 8-12 months however I have been racking up injury after injury and at the moment I have all of these:
- Achilles tendonitis - both legs. Sustained in May.
- Left pectoral tendon strain - sustained first in January (2 months) then again in June.
- Right pectoral tendon strain - sustained in August.
- Right groin strain (Adductor) - sustained in August
- Left sports hernia (athetic pubalagia) - sustained in October
These are on top of existing shin splits (not tendons).
I would not classify myself as a fitness freak at all - I used (now all at a halt) do the gym 1-2 times a week for strength building (not more than 30-40 mins) and used to run 15-25km a week. Then all hell broke loose all of a sudden.
I am so worried because no doctor (I have seen half a dozen different ones over a year) can tell me what is wrong. All blood tests (I have done them all) show I am fully healthy with no deficiencies whatsoever.
Things are really worse at night after I get home - I have to take pain killers if I plan on having a quite night otherwise I am constantly in pain.
During the day things are okay as I am occupying myself at work (office based desk job).
I have tried 2 physios so far - I am going private with this latest one but I am not seeing much results. The first one was really off the mark as well and put me on the same exercise for 3 months.
The worst thing for me at this point is my mental state. I am absolutely shattered all the time and this is having a massive knock on effect on my personal life. I wont go into too much details but I have lost many things permanently. I feel like I will never heal again and I am cursed and doomed to slowly go back to gaining all the weight I have lost.
Personal issues aside, I am really interested in other people to see if their weight loss journey had a similar effect on their health? Would love to hear your stories.
Does weight loss and nutrition affect the tendons directly?
Over the past five years I have dropped around 50kg (110lbs / 8 stones) and went from overweight to just perfect for my age and height. This was done through a combination of exercise and calorie control. In the last 8-12 months however I have been racking up injury after injury and at the moment I have all of these:
- Achilles tendonitis - both legs. Sustained in May.
- Left pectoral tendon strain - sustained first in January (2 months) then again in June.
- Right pectoral tendon strain - sustained in August.
- Right groin strain (Adductor) - sustained in August
- Left sports hernia (athetic pubalagia) - sustained in October
These are on top of existing shin splits (not tendons).
I would not classify myself as a fitness freak at all - I used (now all at a halt) do the gym 1-2 times a week for strength building (not more than 30-40 mins) and used to run 15-25km a week. Then all hell broke loose all of a sudden.
I am so worried because no doctor (I have seen half a dozen different ones over a year) can tell me what is wrong. All blood tests (I have done them all) show I am fully healthy with no deficiencies whatsoever.
Things are really worse at night after I get home - I have to take pain killers if I plan on having a quite night otherwise I am constantly in pain.
During the day things are okay as I am occupying myself at work (office based desk job).
I have tried 2 physios so far - I am going private with this latest one but I am not seeing much results. The first one was really off the mark as well and put me on the same exercise for 3 months.
The worst thing for me at this point is my mental state. I am absolutely shattered all the time and this is having a massive knock on effect on my personal life. I wont go into too much details but I have lost many things permanently. I feel like I will never heal again and I am cursed and doomed to slowly go back to gaining all the weight I have lost.
Personal issues aside, I am really interested in other people to see if their weight loss journey had a similar effect on their health? Would love to hear your stories.
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Replies
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I would be curious to know what your exercise regimen / training has looked like for the past 12-months. Something isn't right with your training or possibly in your recovery so to some degree nutrition could be related. We would need more details related to both training and nutrition over the 12-months.0
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My first guess is that something is very wrong with your training. I would definitely stop all exercise until cleared by a physical therapist or dr, and then work on a plan with the physical therapist. I would suggest you approach this as a beginner, and ask the physical therapist to go over form with you about everything.
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I can get very bad tendon pain from vigorous or heavy repetitive activity. I'll use a topical product called Alcis to numb the pain so I can sleep.
Depression and anxiety may be coming into play in your case as well as any repetitive motions.0 -
I feel for you. My husband had severe tendinitis all over (but primarily in his elbows) for months as a side effect of an antibiotic he was prescribed to treat a bronchial infection (levofloxacin/Levaquin, for the curious). It was absolutely miserable for the both of us, as he wasn't even able to get dressed without intense pain.
Could be training related, but if you've already been doing PT and are still having problems, you might look elsewhere.
Could be diet related--several different classes of foods have been linked to inflammation and an increased risk for injury (high GI foods, saturated fats, etc). I'm no doctor or dietitian, so I won't opine on that topic--do some research, maybe experiment with eliminating different foods to see if any of them are causing your problems.
Best of luck to you, and I hope you get some good insight from others here!0 -
This sounds like classic signs of Chronic Pain Syndrome... Do some research on this.. this can cause a mulitude of issues and it reeks havoc on the psychological, emotional as well as the physical being..
You need to get in tough your doctor as soon as possible.. diagnosis will not necessarily be through blood tests (although they rule will everything out so a real diagnosis can begin)..0 -
My sympathy goes out to you.... Another thing to research is the book "it starts with food". It is an elimination diet you do for 30 days in an effort to see what foods could be causing a whole variety of issues. The diet is called whole30.0
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I would be more insistent about a diagnosis. it could be autoimmune related, cps, or not tendinitis at all.
In the meantime, i would rest the body. actually rest. not active recovery. rest.0 -
That's awful! Did you ever have tendon issues before? Are you very flexible?
Sometimes people have Ehlers-Danlos or at least hypermobility and don't realize it until around your age. Some of the physical checks are really easy, so go on and see about that, imho. (I have hypermobility and fit all the checks for EDS except we've never bothered with a genetic test). I bring it up because connective tissue disorders do definitely affect multiple tendons, and fitness regimes have to be tailored around that problem.0 -
I don't know. There are a lot of things that can cause soft tissue pain. I've been having a lot of joint and soft tissue pain, and it improved dramatically when I started taking magnesium for something else. It's cheap and quick, and worth a try. Vitamin D is another possibility.0
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Tough one. What kind of foods do you eat? The only thing I can think of to reduce inflammation is to eat a diet higher in plant foods and cut back on meat and animal products, fats etc. Last year, I was getting a recurring overuse injury/stress fracture on my foot from doing very little, like a 5-7 mile walk. I was eating very low carb and lots of meat and eggs at the time. I have no idea if there was a correlation but after reversing that and improving my diet with majority plant foods, starches etc, my foot healed and I haven't had a problem with it since, even though I'm exercising more.0
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Thanks all, really appreciate the support!This sounds like classic signs of Chronic Pain Syndrome... Do some research on this.. this can cause a mulitude of issues and it reeks havoc on the psychological, emotional as well as the physical being..
You need to get in tough your doctor as soon as possible.. diagnosis will not necessarily be through blood tests (although they rule will everything out so a real diagnosis can begin)..I would be more insistent about a diagnosis. it could be autoimmune related, cps, or not tendinitis at all.
In the meantime, i would rest the body. actually rest. not active recovery. rest.
I think you are both onto something and I have personally suspected this especially as I also sometimes suffer from fatigue without much cause.
Problem is and I hate to say it, doctors just do no want to hear about this. All doctors I have seen just kept saying it is over exertion, and for a while even I bought into it. But surely now that I have been completely inactive for a good 2 and half month and prior to that was also only mildly active, something else should be considered.
I'll have to do more research to maybe find a private clinic that deals with this sort of thing, because traditional GPs are either not equipped or do not want to bother with such complex conditions. They would rather deal with the more textbook stuff.
I only say this because I have seen so many of them of late and despite explaining everything in detail they still shrugged and told me to "lay off" for a few months and things will get better. Well they are not.
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What's your net calorie intake looked like?0
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Thanks all, really appreciate the support!This sounds like classic signs of Chronic Pain Syndrome... Do some research on this.. this can cause a mulitude of issues and it reeks havoc on the psychological, emotional as well as the physical being..
You need to get in tough your doctor as soon as possible.. diagnosis will not necessarily be through blood tests (although they rule will everything out so a real diagnosis can begin)..I would be more insistent about a diagnosis. it could be autoimmune related, cps, or not tendinitis at all.
In the meantime, i would rest the body. actually rest. not active recovery. rest.
I think you are both onto something and I have personally suspected this especially as I also sometimes suffer from fatigue without much cause.
Problem is and I hate to say it, doctors just do no want to hear about this. All doctors I have seen just kept saying it is over exertion, and for a while even I bought into it. But surely now that I have been completely inactive for a good 2 and half month and prior to that was also only mildly active, something else should be considered.
I'll have to do more research to maybe find a private clinic that deals with this sort of thing, because traditional GPs are either not equipped or do not want to bother with such complex conditions. They would rather deal with the more textbook stuff.
I only say this because I have seen so many of them of late and despite explaining everything in detail they still shrugged and told me to "lay off" for a few months and things will get better. Well they are not.
There is no way the average GP could deal with tenonditis or illnesses affecting joints and muscles. Talk to an sports dr, if your problems started after adding exercise into your routine. Or a rheumatologist if you suspect an autoimmune disorder.0 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »What's your net calorie intake looked like?
depends at which point?
over the last year it has average 1700-1900 depending on factors, Macro 45-50% carb, 25-30% protein, 20% fat most of the time.0 -
it took a year for me to get a diagnosis and i had supportive doctors. it takes time, money and referrals. but I think it's worth it for peace of mind.
i would ask for a referral to a rheumatologist or sports doctor0 -
Thanks all, really appreciate the support!This sounds like classic signs of Chronic Pain Syndrome... Do some research on this.. this can cause a mulitude of issues and it reeks havoc on the psychological, emotional as well as the physical being..
You need to get in tough your doctor as soon as possible.. diagnosis will not necessarily be through blood tests (although they rule will everything out so a real diagnosis can begin)..I would be more insistent about a diagnosis. it could be autoimmune related, cps, or not tendinitis at all.
In the meantime, i would rest the body. actually rest. not active recovery. rest.
I think you are both onto something and I have personally suspected this especially as I also sometimes suffer from fatigue without much cause.
Problem is and I hate to say it, doctors just do no want to hear about this. All doctors I have seen just kept saying it is over exertion, and for a while even I bought into it. But surely now that I have been completely inactive for a good 2 and half month and prior to that was also only mildly active, something else should be considered.
I'll have to do more research to maybe find a private clinic that deals with this sort of thing, because traditional GPs are either not equipped or do not want to bother with such complex conditions. They would rather deal with the more textbook stuff.
I only say this because I have seen so many of them of late and despite explaining everything in detail they still shrugged and told me to "lay off" for a few months and things will get better. Well they are not.
There is no way the average GP could deal with tenonditis or illnesses affecting joints and muscles. Talk to an sports dr, if your problems started after adding exercise into your routine. Or a rheumatologist if you suspect an autoimmune disorder.
Or, perhaps, a psychiatrist. OP noted onset at night when not occupied by activity. He also noted being mentally shattered from recent events.
Anxiety can cause pain. And that pain can escalate if not addressed early. Depression can also invoke pain. It could be as simple as trying very-short term anxiety meds. Or it could be more complex with treating depression.0 -
While this may be something definitely going on with your body, I find that when I take flax seed oil, or high quality grade fish oil (omega 3s) they have signficantly helped with the aches in my body even before I started weightloss and exercise. I could not get out of the bed without pain, stand up or sit down without pain, get out of the car without pain. It was a pain in my butt! So although I have only lost a few pounds comparitively to my goal weight, I feel soooo much better...
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MeanderingMammal wrote: »What's your net calorie intake looked like?
depends at which point?
over the last year it has average 1700-1900 depending on factors, Macro 45-50% carb, 25-30% protein, 20% fat most of the time.
Personally when I was on 1600 I was shattered all the time, so it's not out of the question that you've been needing to eat more. I'm now netting 2200 and losing slowly, but it's more sustainable for me.
It could just be fatigue as a result of a long period of cutting.
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Yes, OP - I hear your frustration and understand completely. It's not your macros or nutrition, that's not enough to cause multiple instances of tendinopathy, on its own.cafeaulait7 wrote: »That's awful! Did you ever have tendon issues before? Are you very flexible?
Sometimes people have Ehlers-Danlos or at least hypermobility and don't realize it until around your age. Some of the physical checks are really easy, so go on and see about that, imho. (I have hypermobility and fit all the checks for EDS except we've never bothered with a genetic test). I bring it up because connective tissue disorders do definitely affect multiple tendons, and fitness regimes have to be tailored around that problem.
This is possible. Some rheumatologists understand it, others don't. A geneticist could also exclude most kinds of Ehlers-Danlos (but not the one that relates to hypermobility). It depends on your GP taking you seriously enough to refer you, though.
A physiatrist is another specialist you can try to see, they're trained to look at patterns of MSK dysfunction. Sports meds and orthos only look at dealing with single injuries.
If it is a connective tissue disorder, the sad news is that it's incurable. The only thing to do is treat injuries as they occur, with physios who understand these disorders (also a tall order that depends on either a diagnosis or a referral to a knowledgeable physio by someone who has been diagnosed), splinting, rest, and surgery if necessary. There is also the option of the injection of biologics (e.g. stem cells) to facilitate healing of what is degenerated (not inflamed, in the way it's been talked about) tissue.
See http://www.tendonpain.org/index.shtml for a better understanding of this issue and possible treatments.
Another possible reason for systematic tendinopathy is use of antibiotics in the Fluoroquinolone class (e.g. ciprofloxacin ).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2921747/
Spontaneous Achilles tendon ruptures have been most frequently correlated with these meds so far - I suspect because they're most dramatic and obvious, compared to other tendon dysfunctions - but there may be a relationship with other tendinopathies that are not captured (perhaps because of time lags, issues in detection of these injuries, etc.)
I totally feel your pain, and I'm really sorry.0 -
degenerated (not inflamed, in the way it's been talked about) tissue.
About this. The theory that tendinopathy is a gross inflammation of tendon tissue has been challenged for about a decade. (there may be microinflammation going on, but the main mechanism of dysfunction is now thought to be degeneration or "failed healing", i.e. collagen fibres not laying down properly after injury from repetitive strain.
Treatment (on the inflammation theory) is focused on decreasing inflammation, through NSAIDs and sometimes cortisone shots. Both those treatments are BAD for long-term tendon health (inhibit tendon repair and contribute to further degeneration) and are worth avoiding if you can.0 -
Thanks all, really appreciate the support!This sounds like classic signs of Chronic Pain Syndrome... Do some research on this.. this can cause a mulitude of issues and it reeks havoc on the psychological, emotional as well as the physical being..
You need to get in tough your doctor as soon as possible.. diagnosis will not necessarily be through blood tests (although they rule will everything out so a real diagnosis can begin)..I would be more insistent about a diagnosis. it could be autoimmune related, cps, or not tendinitis at all.
In the meantime, i would rest the body. actually rest. not active recovery. rest.
I think you are both onto something and I have personally suspected this especially as I also sometimes suffer from fatigue without much cause.
Problem is and I hate to say it, doctors just do no want to hear about this. All doctors I have seen just kept saying it is over exertion, and for a while even I bought into it. But surely now that I have been completely inactive for a good 2 and half month and prior to that was also only mildly active, something else should be considered.
I'll have to do more research to maybe find a private clinic that deals with this sort of thing, because traditional GPs are either not equipped or do not want to bother with such complex conditions. They would rather deal with the more textbook stuff.
I only say this because I have seen so many of them of late and despite explaining everything in detail they still shrugged and told me to "lay off" for a few months and things will get better. Well they are not.
There is no way the average GP could deal with tenonditis or illnesses affecting joints and muscles. Talk to an sports dr, if your problems started after adding exercise into your routine. Or a rheumatologist if you suspect an autoimmune disorder.
Or, perhaps, a psychiatrist. OP noted onset at night when not occupied by activity. He also noted being mentally shattered from recent events.
Anxiety can cause pain. And that pain can escalate if not addressed early. Depression can also invoke pain. It could be as simple as trying very-short term anxiety meds. Or it could be more complex with treating depression.
he said he is shattered due to this physical issue
yes, anxiety and stress can cause issues but this seems is antecedent to the tendonitis0 -
@DapperKay in my case cutting out the grains helped but I only walk as my working out efforts because of joint damage. How is your Vitamin D and K2 levels?0
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Personal stories, yes, peroneal tendinopathy, tennis elbow x2, golfer's elbow, mcl, rotator cuff x2, brachioradialis.I feel like I will never heal again
this fear, uncertainty and anxiety about normal movement, the loss of the ability to engage in previously loved activities, and interruptions to activities of daily living are what get me. fear and anxiety about what kind of quality of life is available to me in the future.
as far as anxiety being a part of it, no, sorry. yeah i know there are theories about centrally mediated pain and yeah it plays a role, but. bull****. that tissue is damaged.
anxiety results from the pain, and the fact that things don't heal, and the actual limitations on people's lives. and the fact that many medical practitioners dismiss and humiliate you, despite the facts before their eyes.
it does contribute to pain, but it's far from the first thing.0 -
I had a toothache so bad I wanted to pull it out. I went to the dentist. Everything was normal. My pain accelerated. My SO, a psychiatrist, suggested I take an Ativan. I thought, "bull****. This is real!" But it hurt so bad that I was willing to try anything. Guess what? It worked.0
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Of course an Ativan chilled you out and inhibited your anxiety & anticipation of pain before a procedure, making it less painful, that's not surprising.
I'm not saying anxiety is beside the point in chronic pain, either.
But to suggest to someone with actually damaged tissue that they should take a chill pill and forget about trying to heal said tissue ***or understand why it's happening and what they might expect*** is both wrongheaded and insensitive.
Anxiety, depression, etc. are a part of the pain story, but entirely secondary. That's not to say psychiatric or psychological treatment wouldn't help, but it won't help as long as the main problem isn't dealt with.
I know your advice came from a good place, but it's not helpful.0 -
First of all, congratulations on your sustained weight loss.
Second, my condolences for the chronic pain.
Third, grasping at straws, you might look if part of this is an inflammation/autoimmune response. There is an anti-inflammatory diet.
Fourth, I've been reading lately as we age that recovery and repair simply takes longer. Scant comfort I know.
https://www.ted.com/talks/elliot_krane_the_mystery_of_chronic_pain0 -
What procedure? The toothache was all in my head!Of course an Ativan chilled you out and inhibited your anxiety & anticipation of pain before a procedure, making it less painful, that's not surprising.
I'm not saying anxiety is beside the point in chronic pain, either.
But to suggest to someone with actually damaged tissue that they should take a chill pill and forget about trying to heal said tissue is both wrongheaded and insensitive.
It's a part of the pain story, but entirely secondary. That's not to say it wouldn't help, but it won't help as long as the main problem isn't dealt with.
I know your advice came from a good place, but it's not helpful.
So...
If all the tests come out normal, it just may be all in the head.
I've had my share of overuse injuries from repetitive motions that I can pinpoint. But, if I found myself in pain for no particular reason (as in the toothache) I may consult a psychiatrist. Pain can be a symptom of depression or anxiety.
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this is chronic pain that's related to specific and identifiable injuries. what's unclear and mysterious to OP is why he has so many and why they're not getting better. (and what he can do to make them better or prevent more happening in future.)0
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Tendonitis sucks
It can take months / years to heal
I'm in month 5 of arm issues and I have no advice, just empathy
I'm currently having very painful acupuncture and am taped up with blue stuff from wrist to elbow
It just sucks
Still there's always hope0 -
P.S. The day I was admitted in to the weight loss program, I slipped in the hospital parking lot (blizzard, snow, and ice). I landed - hard - on my knee and developed a chronic case of bursitis in that knee. That winter I landed two more times on that dratted knee. The fourth time - I'd lost thirty pounds at that point - I was able to recover from a fall. That single incident was pivotal to my later success. For the first time I began to believe I could have a better life. I would not have believed back then that I would be running now.
My knee still gives me trouble sometimes.0
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