What is the body transformation cycle?

szewczykm
szewczykm Posts: 7 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
I started this past February at 6'3" - 345#. I cycle a lot, gave up sugar and simple carbs, eat whole foods, and I keep track of calories when I feel things have slowed down. Making all of these changes have resulted in having lost 75 pounds, feeling great, and wanting to go to the next stage. I've been doing a lot of reading and I'm coming to some conclusions and I want to check with the group to see if I'm on the right track.

I have started a weight training program along with my cardio to help push past a plateau I'm currently experiencing. And of course I see all of these guys with great muscles walking around and I'd like them too! I've looked into ways to make that happen.

What I'm reading is that in order to gain muscle size, I need to eat more (surplus) while also lifting, in order to build the muscle. I will gain muscle, but also gain some fat - which I will have to lose later. This makes sense.

But, I'm still at 270 pounds. I still have at least 45 pounds of fat to lose. I'm not really mentally prepared for gaining weight. I want to continue the downward trend in clothing sizes.

What I think I've learned is that gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time is difficult and what I think I need to do is:

Continue to lift for fitness - not muscle growth.
Continue my cardio.
Continue my calorie deficit to continue my fat loss until I reach my desired fat loss goal.
When I'm satisfied with my body fat percentage, then I can start into the whole "surplus, lift, built, then cut" cycle until I achieve my strength / muscle size goals.

Am I thinking about this correctly? I've read that "fat loss and muscle growth are possible, but only with a very disciplined lifestyle". I don't think that level of discipline fits in my life now and if I have to work for another 6 months before I can start building muscle size, I think I can live with that.

I see a lot of "transform in 12 weeks!" that are meant for people who don't have nearly as far to go. I have yet to find the "18 month realistic normal obese guy total body transformation" guide that I think I need.

Replies

  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
    edited November 2015
    szewczykm wrote: »
    What I think I've learned is that gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time is difficult and what I think I need to do is:

    Continue to lift for fitness - not muscle growth.
    Continue my cardio.
    Continue my calorie deficit to continue my fat loss until I reach my desired fat loss goal.
    When I'm satisfied with my body fat percentage, then I can start into the whole "surplus, lift, built, then cut" cycle until I achieve my strength / muscle size goals.

    You pretty much have it down. You can build muscle while eating in a deficit in certain circumstances. Overfat beginners are one group that can do this. Of course, you'll never find a definitive statement as to what, exactly, is meant by "overfat beginner" (i.e., how fat is overfat, when exactly does this magical beginner time period end, etc.) The best thing to do is to continue to lift and build strength while losing fat, so that by the time the fat is gone (or at a level of "goneness" that you like) you have a nice solid base. Then you can lift at maintenance or do bulk/cut cycles.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    Calorie deficit for weight loss.
    Cardio for heart/lung health and to increase your calories/deficit.
    Lifting to retain muscle, meaning you lose mostly fat and have better body composition in the end.

    Focus on your intake, do exercise you enjoy, get a few days of lifting in to help keep your lean mass.
  • szewczykm
    szewczykm Posts: 7 Member
    jemhh wrote: »
    Overfat beginners are one group that can do this.

    This was a great article. I really feel the fog is starting to clear and it explains some things I've experienced in the past. Thanks so much for the advice and the article.

    usmcmp - Thanks for the input too!
  • cafeaulait7
    cafeaulait7 Posts: 2,459 Member
    Yeah, I say use your newb gains while you can! Make sure your program is good and progressive, includes enough rest, hits enough muscles, etc. Because you really might add muscle :)

    And preserving muscle that you have at a significantly higher weight also means that you could end up with good amounts of muscle. It takes more muscle to carry the extra weight, so you'd be starting with more than if you'd weighed less. The smaller the deficit, along with lifting, the smaller the amount of lean mass you'll lose. So think about that when deciding on your deficit.
  • szewczykm
    szewczykm Posts: 7 Member
    Yea, between carrying the weight and thousands of miles of cycling I'm pretty happy with my legs :smiley:. It's my upper body I want to improve. But I'll be patient.
  • Working2BLean
    Working2BLean Posts: 386 Member
    I cycle and run

    And lift once or twice a week

    You can eat at a slight deficit and burn needed calories from fat while cycling and slowly add muscle with dietary protein

    At a point you get as lean as you want. It will be a new challenge to carry 10 extra pounds of muscle and cycle 100+ miles a week and keep the weight on.

    It sounds like you have a great plan. Tweaking protein will be key.

    I can get cycling focused and have to make myself take 4 days of no hard rides and lift and eat more.



  • mommarnurse
    mommarnurse Posts: 515 Member
    There's always some Debate on this topic. I personally believe that of course it's possible to gain muscle while losing fat. If you're consistently lifting weight, your body has to build the muscle just like if you're in a caloric deficit your body has to burn the fat to maintain needed energy.therefore, you will gain muscle either way (being in a caloric deficit or not) but you will not burn fat unless you're in a caloric deficit. Therefore you'll have to be in a deficit while working on lifting.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    mommarnurse wrote: »
    There's always some Debate on this topic. I personally believe that of course it's possible to gain muscle while losing fat. If you're consistently lifting weight, your body has to build the muscle just like if you're in a caloric deficit your body has to burn the fat to maintain needed energy.therefore, you will gain muscle either way (being in a caloric deficit or not) but you will not burn fat unless you're in a caloric deficit. Therefore you'll have to be in a deficit while working on lifting.

    There's always debate, but the science is simple - to create muscle, the body needs a surplus. Eating at a deficit by its very definition means that you're eating less than your body needs to maintain its current state, let alone add to it. As you lose weight, part of it is fat and part of it is muscle (the ratio can be affected by diet and training, but you'll never be losing 100% fat). Resistance training (and adequate protein intake) helps preserve what lean body mass you have, but your body doesn't have the raw materials to build new muscle (aside from some slight "newbie gains"). You will get stronger via neuromuscular adaptation (the body's reaction to the increased stress/load being placed upon it by the strength training), but your muscles won't get bigger.

    As an analogy, you have a brick wall which is 8 rows high. You'd like to make the wall 11 rows high, but somebody keeps coming and stealing a few bricks from your existing wall every night and you can't afford to buy more bricks. Without enough bricks to even replace the ones being lost, you won't be able to add new bricks to the wall and make it bigger. If you want to build the wall up, you have to stop losing bricks and have more bricks to add on top of the existing ones.

    There is such a thing as a "recomp" (eating at maintenance and trying to simultaneously lose fat and gain muscle), but it's a very slow and inefficient process. You're basically trying to go forward and backward at the same time.
  • szewczykm
    szewczykm Posts: 7 Member
    OK, I understand this now. With that knowledge, would a proper plan be to continue at a deficit, continue with weight training but only with the idea of saving some muscle as I lose weight, then once I get to a goal weight, start the surplus/build + deficit/cut cycle?
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    szewczykm wrote: »
    OK, I understand this now. With that knowledge, would a proper plan be to continue at a deficit, continue with weight training but only with the idea of saving some muscle as I lose weight, then once I get to a goal weight, start the surplus/build + deficit/cut cycle?

    Very sensible plan. You may pick up a couple/few pounds of "newbie gains" along the way, and when you get to your goal weight you'll be a lot happier with the result than if you hadn't lifted while getting there! The only thing I'd add is to also make sure your protein intake is adequate (read the first post in this thread for some solid information about setting up your macros).

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