Appetite Suppressants. (Long post, sorry.)
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
Here's how I asked: "Do you have links to the posts you read?"ZBennyXOXO wrote: »
I don't think it's bad to ask for it, I think it's just the way you asked. The tone of your post seemed to carry on from the first one. I'm not saying you can't ask, I didn't mean to imply that.DeguelloTex wrote: »
So if someone says, "I read some posts that say X" then I say, "I haven't seen that, do you have links?" I'm being condescending for not accepting someone's bald assertion about something?ZBennyXOXO wrote: »
CertainlyDeguelloTex wrote: »
Which statements, exactly, seemed condescending you? Your use of "they" at least implies that I made multiple condescending statements. If you could point out precisely which ones, that would help.ZBennyXOXO wrote: »AllonsYtotheTardis wrote: »MMMendoza007 wrote: »What part?
Dude.
See. I remember now why I'm hesitant to get involved in a community setting. There's always going to be un-deputized board police whose life revolves around monitoring...all. I can see you're a posty fellow. Here's the thing, regardless of what YOU feel was said in previous posts, I'm posting what I felt about previous posts. I don't need you to refer me to subsection B, article 1003 of the board posting rules according to you. Nothing in my post hurt a fly. I spoke about my feelings with regard to taking meds AND how I felt when I checked out previous posts. It's subjective. I felt that way. If you don't agree, cool. But I see nothing in my post that was erroneous or offensive.
You are overreacting to his comments. You were expecting to be attacked and you read his comments with that context. Coming from outside the conversation, his comments seem pretty level.
Coming from outside the conversation they seemed condescending to me. Different viewpoints, and I felt her response wasn't outside an understandable scope. I don't think they meant I'll by their original reply with surely but it could be and was taken with offense.
Just trying to show that her reply doesn't seem overactive and his level by all outside the convo.
! I think your original post you said you were surprised, which is understandable since its Perscribed. But with the way you mentioned surely twice, and your original wording, it seemed just like you were almost scoffing at the OP of the thread. Sort of turning your nose up at her(?) I think is the phrase.
When she responded, I will say the use of certain words like rabid wasn't accurate but it's sometimes hard to pick perfect words and I can't judge, you responded as well. But with your response it was like
"Well -I- have not seen..." Along with asking for proof, as if OP is making it up. Not that I think you think that, but it sort of felt that way.
So it kind of seemed like "lol your joking" followed by "nah post proof cause I haven't seen that." With your next reply.
I hope I explained myself well. I try to but ugh I always feel I don't do it as best as I could
Yeah, I was asking her to post proof of what she said so I could read it, too.
If you believe that asking someone to support what they've said about what they've read -- not even about her feelings, but about what she's read -- is condescending, we're just going to have to disagree on what condescending means.
How would you have asked, instead?
Whoops. Deleted because I derailed
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MMMendoza007 wrote: »
The other part of me is fascinated. So how do they work? Do you feel full? I am trying to understand how "not hungry because I took a pill" would feel. I also wonder if that would help me at the times I do fall off the wagon. I was never eating because I was hungry, I was eating for other reasons.
It's just like what MKEgal wrote. You just aren't hungry. Not full. Just not like a heroine addict five days late for a fix. I think there may be a gap in understanding because not everyone knows what that is like. They might think they know how difficult it is, but if you can get through without the aid of the meds, you probably didn't need them in the first place. I was borderline diabetic again. I'd once had diabetes and after my weight loss, it was gone. My blood pressure was creeping up and the doctor was talking to me about meds for that. I kept trying and failing. I was becoming very depressed. I'd suffer all day and then go home and blow it. For now, I take this in the evening and I get through the night. I have every intention of getting off the pills as soon as I know I have a grip. I'll be testing myself to see how I manage without them come December (or sooner if I think I'm ready).
Does the type of food you eat factor in at all in your elevated hunger levels? You mentioning Diabetes made me wonder. Or is it, as the other poster described, a case of getting mentally used to smaller portions and thus not needing the meds over time? When you say "have a grip" it sounds like you feel that this hunger is something you could tackle in time, or did you just mean that you expected your appetite to decrease over time?
Hunger is such a difficult thing to describe and our experience of it is subjective.0 -
MMMendoza007 wrote: »mhaskins08 wrote: »Hi there. I hope you don't mind me asking you questions. My only point of reference is phen-fen (sp?) so my knowledge about phentermine is sorely lacking.
What sort of checks and balances do doctors do to make sure someone is a good candidate? What kind of follow up do they do to make sure they are no contraindications? Does the doctor assist with weaning off of the meds? Coping mechanisms?
My sister had this suggested to her and because of the relationship with fenphen(? Taking another stab lol) I thought it to be a bad idea.
It is interesting hearing the perspective of someone who is on them. Thanks.
So, I've got to head out to work. But Let me say this. I was terrified of any and all diet meds. And as a general rule if you can mange without them, that's the best coarse of action. I personally know someone, a young (late 30's) woman who died a few years back from a heart attack while taking diet meds. So it was close to home for me and scarey. It never occurred to me to even inquire about meds.
My doctor gave me a complete physical (I've been with him for years and thus my history is with him) in addition to lab work. I see my doctor once a month for a check of how I'm doing. So far, no adverse affects to blood pressure. As far as I can tell, there is no weaning off. At least for me. I take it as needed. And for me, that means, I only take it when I'm doing all the right things. When I wasn't "behaving" I stopped completely.
For the record, I log five miles a day now on the elliptical. I alternate weight training each day as well as working abs each day. I chart what I eat, plan my meals, and am still very hungry most times. It's just that I find I can control my appetite and my impulses very well during the day. In the evening, I seem to have no control whatsoever, or, I find the struggle so difficult I become defeated because I feel there is no way I can do it long term.
Thank you for sharing. I experience night hunger as well. It's serious! Banking calories is what gets me through.
Glad that you're staying on top of your doctor appointments. I'm sure one day you'll be able to conquer that evening hunger without meds. Just keep up the good habits. That's what it's really about. Good luck!0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »Frankly, that's hard to believe. Do you have links to the posts you read?
Almost every post on that topic that I've read points out that if it's OTC it's probably not effective and, if it is, it will be taken off the OTC market as dangerous. And that prescription meds can work but they require, well, prescriptions.
I've not seen anyone claim that prescription suppressants don't work or that people shouldn't follow their doctor's advice regarding prescriptions.
The ones I see all say that phentermine is going to destroy the person's heart and they;ll never learn better and they're going to regain all their weight. I know 100% what she is talking about, I've seen nothing but the same - when specifically reading a phentermine post. I'm not talking OTC.
It could be that you read different posts - like maybe you only read the ones about OTC suppressants. But that doesn't mean the ones she read didn't exists. Do a quick search for yourself on "phentermine" and see what she's talking about instead of asking her out of the blue for proof on something that really doesn't matter much. She doesn't need to provide scientific backup for everything she says because you have the tools to validate it yourself.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »Frankly, that's hard to believe. Do you have links to the posts you read?
Almost every post on that topic that I've read points out that if it's OTC it's probably not effective and, if it is, it will be taken off the OTC market as dangerous. And that prescription meds can work but they require, well, prescriptions.
I've not seen anyone claim that prescription suppressants don't work or that people shouldn't follow their doctor's advice regarding prescriptions.
The ones I see all say that phentermine is going to destroy the person's heart. I know 100% what she is talking about, I've seen nothing but the same.
A forum search using "phentermine prescription" tells a pretty different story.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »Frankly, that's hard to believe. Do you have links to the posts you read?
Almost every post on that topic that I've read points out that if it's OTC it's probably not effective and, if it is, it will be taken off the OTC market as dangerous. And that prescription meds can work but they require, well, prescriptions.
I've not seen anyone claim that prescription suppressants don't work or that people shouldn't follow their doctor's advice regarding prescriptions.
The ones I see all say that phentermine is going to destroy the person's heart. I know 100% what she is talking about, I've seen nothing but the same.
A forum search using "phentermine prescription" tells a pretty different story.
But what if she only searched phentermine in order to obtain as many posts as possible? The difference might be that people saying only "Phentermine" may have not yet talked to their doctor about it. And people are scaring them off before they even have a chance to talk to a professional.0 -
A fair chunk of the phentermine posts that aren't specifically about OTC "equivalents" mention doctors and prescriptions.DeguelloTex wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »Frankly, that's hard to believe. Do you have links to the posts you read?
Almost every post on that topic that I've read points out that if it's OTC it's probably not effective and, if it is, it will be taken off the OTC market as dangerous. And that prescription meds can work but they require, well, prescriptions.
I've not seen anyone claim that prescription suppressants don't work or that people shouldn't follow their doctor's advice regarding prescriptions.
The ones I see all say that phentermine is going to destroy the person's heart. I know 100% what she is talking about, I've seen nothing but the same.
A forum search using "phentermine prescription" tells a pretty different story.
But what if she only searched phentermine in order to obtain as many posts as possible? The difference might be that people saying only "Phentermine" may have not yet talked to their doctor about it. And people are scaring them off before they even have a chance to talk to a professional.
If someone were interested in reading as many posts as possible, that person would have had to make a concerted effort not to see the distinctions being made between prescription and OTC pills.
There's really not much that can be done for people who are scared away from talking to their doctor based on what they've read on a web forum.0 -
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The ones I see all say that phentermine is going to destroy the person's heart and they;ll never learn better and they're going to regain all their weight.
Phentermine lost its licence in the EU but it was reinstated after Court action. The Court found that the regulators could not demonstrate either lack of efficacy or health risk. However it is still struggling to get approval.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »Surely in all of that reading you came across the distinction between prescribed meds and OTC "suppressants." Surely.
Yes, there's more OTC bashing. However, as a former phen/fen user, Phentermine threads register with me, and the OP is correct in the sense that there's not much support for Phentermine use. I do agree with you that there is a distinction, especially in tone, and that the tone she refers to in her OP is generally for OTC supplements.
If you are so inclined, try a search for just "Phentermine."
Here's what I've said previously about my experience with prescription diet pills:
Phentermine plus fenfluramine (phen/fen) worked marvelously for me, but once fenfluramine was withdrawn from the market I didn't get the same results from phentermine alone or with some drugs similar to fenfluramine. Plus the whole fenfluramine being withdrawn from the market due to damaging hearts soured me on the whole diet pill thing.0 -
MMMendoza007 wrote: »
The other part of me is fascinated. So how do they work? Do you feel full? I am trying to understand how "not hungry because I took a pill" would feel. I also wonder if that would help me at the times I do fall off the wagon. I was never eating because I was hungry, I was eating for other reasons.
It's just like what MKEgal wrote. You just aren't hungry. Not full. Just not like a heroine addict five days late for a fix. I think there may be a gap in understanding because not everyone knows what that is like. They might think they know how difficult it is, but if you can get through without the aid of the meds, you probably didn't need them in the first place. I was borderline diabetic again. I'd once had diabetes and after my weight loss, it was gone. My blood pressure was creeping up and the doctor was talking to me about meds for that. I kept trying and failing. I was becoming very depressed. I'd suffer all day and then go home and blow it. For now, I take this in the evening and I get through the night. I have every intention of getting off the pills as soon as I know I have a grip. I'll be testing myself to see how I manage without them come December (or sooner if I think I'm ready).
"I'd suffer all day and then go home and blow it" sounds to me like you weren't eating enough, or weren't eating foods that fill you up. For me, having enough protein in relationship to carbs is essential to feeling satisfied. See http://www.nutrition.org.uk/healthyliving/fuller/understanding-satiety-feeling-full-after-a-meal.html
When I ate carb-intensive foods, I would eat and eat and eat, because my body wanted protein and was not getting it.
I'm concerned that the Phentermine is artificially messing with your hunger cues, and when you stop taking it, you will be back in the same boat.
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Hey there OP. Thanks for sharing your experience with prescription appetite suppressants, while I'm not taking one now I have seriously considered taking them in the past. I have also taken 1 of the non prescription ones that did work and helped me lose 35lbs, but had unfortunate side effects that made it not worth continuing.
I think it is reassuring to know there is medical help out there if I need another tool in my weight loss arsenal.0 -
personally.. as soon as my endocrinologist suggested i could take an appetite suppressant to get my weight moving down again i decided right then and there that he was no longer going to be my endocrinologist. i am 26 years old, no where NEAR obese.. overweight? yes, but i'm 5'10" and carry my weight well. i have been counting calories/aware of my food choices for almost four years now. i lift heavy and get my cardio in. do i want to lose weight and could i for my sake? yes, but to tell me on my second appointment that he could write me a script for phentermine or the like was appalling to me. doctors are giving out scripts for these things too freely these days. so i understand why people have the opinion they do about appetite suppressants and the belief that they teach people nothing. most people who take them gain it all back once they stop taking them because they didn't learn how to control themselves without the help of a pill. no judgement towards you - i just think this may help you understand why people are so quick to judge.0
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Hey, OP. Everyone loses weight differently. No one can tell you exactly what will work for each person because we're all very different. Don't let the opinions of others get you down!
Good luck finding what will work for you!0 -
Hey, OP. Everyone loses weight differently. No one can tell you exactly what will work for each person because we're all very different. Don't let the opinions of others get you down!
Good luck finding what will work for you!
Everybody is different and has to find what works for them.
We're all here for the same reason.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »In any case - if you are outlining how these products may be used as tools - either here or in a blog, you should also be responsible to mention that ANY drug that has physiological efficacy HAS RISKS. And should be discussed with a physician.
From minor side effects to severe and permanent mental changes to liver toxicity - these products should not be lightly used without considering that.
Agreed. I think it was a fairly good OP, but this part was missing.
There are tons of tools that people use for weight loss (ways of eating, medications, surgery), but all of them need to be treated as such with a long term plan for continued success in place. Without that, the tools will all ultimately fail.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »"I'd suffer all day and then go home and blow it" sounds to me like you weren't eating enough, or weren't eating foods that fill you up. For me, having enough protein in relationship to carbs is essential to feeling satisfied. See http://www.nutrition.org.uk/healthyliving/fuller/understanding-satiety-feeling-full-after-a-meal.html
When I ate carb-intensive foods, I would eat and eat and eat, because my body wanted protein and was not getting it.
I'm concerned that the Phentermine is artificially messing with your hunger cues, and when you stop taking it, you will be back in the same boat.
Well, I can say this, I was eating within the parameters set by the calculations from MFP. It had scant amounts of carbs as I am sensitive to them, exhibiting some of what you mentioned. But additionally, something else was amiss. I'd cook healthy, properly proportioned meals and still not be satisfied. Or some days, I'd fall short on my calories and couldn't deal with what I had left to work with. And once I got started, I'd just blow it entirely.
You bring up it artificially messing with my hunger cues, and that is a huge concern for me. But on the flip side, part of using this drug, as I was instructed by my doctor, is being able to recognize those very cues. I was told that if I didn't acknowledge when my body was telling me I was full, the medicine wouldn't do me any good. He said I could easily ignore cues and power through.
What I wanted, and what has happened for me so far, is to not feel ravenously out of control. I plan my meals, my cravings and urges do not. Hopefully, I'll have an iron grip on my routine and willpower when it comes time to get off of it entirely.0 -
The ones I see all say that phentermine is going to destroy the person's heart and they;ll never learn better and they're going to regain all their weight.
Phentermine lost its licence in the EU but it was reinstated after Court action. The Court found that the regulators could not demonstrate either lack of efficacy or health risk. However it is still struggling to get approval.
Wow! I didn't know about this. Thanks. I'll be sure to check it out.0 -
caroldavison332 wrote: »I lift weights in the evenings after work and they either suppress my appetite or I am too tired to eat dinner afterward. As an overfat person, I recommend trying weight lifting rather than putting the additional strain on my body of stimulants. Does anyone else loose their appetite/are too tired to eat after weight lifting?
Currently, I log five miles a day on the elliptical and do a host of weight training of various body parts on various days as well as ab work. Additionally, I have a physical job and work outdoors much of the time. Unfortunately for me, exercise seems to only increase my appetite.
Please understand, I'm not a medication advocate. I just hoped to let a certain type of person (a person who is like me) know that they aren't alone. And that, with the proper guidance, there shouldn't be shame or embarrassment associated with assistance though medication. It really is like everyone has been posting, it's what works for you. And I'm not even sure this is the answer. I haven't lost all the weight I want to and I certainly have no idea how things will go if I'm ever fortunate enough to get to a maintaining phase. Having lost over 130 pounds in the past, I can honestly say I've yet to win at this war.0 -
I have read the same "drug" bashing that you described. Posts even go so far as to say "find a new doctor" or "doctors know nothing about weight loss". I personally use the caffiene in coffee/soda, or stay "busy", to help avoid needless eating. But, nice post. 0
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