Vegetarian Baby - protein sources?

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  • mamafrost84
    mamafrost84 Posts: 3
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    Double Post!
  • Barneystinson
    Barneystinson Posts: 1,357 Member
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    Interesting that people are talking about vegan diets being low calorie by definition - I am vegan approximatley 80% of the time and struggling to meet my MFP calorie limit without flying way over!

    As much evidence as there may be about (poorly planned) vegan diets having potential health risks, there is also much evidence that says excessive consumption of red meat and dairy is harmful to health. As a breastfeeding mother, the number of other mums I have met who have had to eliminate dairy from their diet due to CMP intolerance in their babies is phenomenal. Increasingly I'm beginning to think we just aren't 'meant' to consume as much dairy as we do.

    We are soon to start weaning our daughter and so have been researching her nutritional needs carefully. We already plan our own meals each week, so will adapt these to ensure she is receving a balanced diet. But as the majority of her calories and nutrition will come from milk until she's one, food is just for fun.

    Also, to whoever said infants can only eat meat in blended form, have a look at Baby Led Weaning/Baby Led Solids. No need to blend a thing!

    Both diets can work, but, taking a look at the composition of saturated fat within breastmilk, that would generally give a hint babies and small children NEED a good source of dietary fat.

    Some vegan diets can be as low as 10% calories from fat, hence the concern to include some egg and dairy sources for beneficial protein and dietary fat. The most recent case of neglect by vegan parents in the states was due to the children being emaciated and not fed adequate nutritional levels through their parents' raw vegan diet:

    http://articles.cnn.com/2005-11-08/justice/child.starved_1_andressohns-child-neglect-baby?_s=PM:LAW
  • seventieslord
    seventieslord Posts: 59 Member
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    I appreciate everyone's feedback.
    Beans and lentils maybe? Tofu?

    Tofu is soy.

    But yeah, you're right about the beans and lentils... I should start giving her more of those.
    Diced avacado...my daughter loved it when she that age.

    Thanks. She's already an avocado freak.

    mr. Taso, who clearly has philosophical differences with me, is probably right about Avocado - this is not a high-protein food. One cup just to get 3g? That's not what I'm looking for as a "source" of protein. It's a great food for a lot of other reasons, though.
    Is she vegetarian or vegan?

    As of now? Vegetarian. She doesn't have milk and the yogurt she has is about half-real, half-not. (although Soy yogurt is legitimately yogurt, it's not just flavoured paste, it is actually cultured) My wife does insist on cheese because we are well aware that babies need large amounts of cholesterol and fats (and even saturated fats)

    My wife's take on it is, "we're not ****ing vegans - and we never will be!!!"
    Have you discussed this with your or your baby's doctor?

    Yes. They recommend responsibility. Like doing what I'm doing now.

    It also becomes pretty clear when talking to a doctor that, despite their wealth of knowledge they've obtained, they are not dieticians or nutritionists.
    A couple more things I thought of after I hit "post." We were just mentioning today what a surprising amount of protein peas have.

    Yeah, it's not bad. It's at least over double what avocados have :)
    Clearly, you've made the choice for her to NOT eat meat... You could let nature take its course, as human beings are omnivores, and allowing her to make that decision when she's not at a developmental stage in cognitive behavior...?

    thank you for your suggestion. If I want to get into yet another discussion about this, I will start that thread.
    hey!! i have tons of recommendations....SEEDS! unlike nuts, they are usually well-tolerated by most... Sunflower, pumpkin, hemp....all great sources for protein and healthy fats. Def look for RAW, unroasted....Also, how about sunflower seed butter or hempseed butter spread on gluten-free bread or crackers, or apple slices?

    Good point on the seeds. My dad had a sunflower seed allergy so we as humans aren't 100% "immune" to them but I guess you can say that about any food to some degree. Unfortunately
    Another great choice: SPIRULINA.

    I think I've seen this in the ingredients of a couple smoothie drinks I've bought before. I admit I have no idea WTF it is. I'm going to have to check it out at the health food store.
    i would avoid too much of the processed soy stuff because there is a lot of questionable info out there on possible health risks.

    You said it best: "questionable info"

    Too much of anything is not good for you, and the exact reason I'm here is because I don't want soy to be a high percentage of her protein (or mine for that matter) - If I can get it to 25% or less, awesome.
    Is she still breastfed? If not, then i would seriously consider keeping her with dairy till shes a bit older, in all honesty.

    She is still breastfed, a few times daily. We fully understand the benefits of all the cholesterol and saturated fat that she gets from mommy. Plus the multitude of other benefits.
    I dont think TVP is counterproductive, I think it could be a very useful tool.

    Maybe that was poor word choice on my part. She eats TVP, but that is soy-based. I want variety for her.
    It's one thing for a grown adult to make this decision, but very different for a baby. And the fact that the OP is reaching out for help FOR HER BABY, on this website where even full grown adults can hardly figure out how to feed themselves has me just terrified for that poor baby.

    I suspect it can be done in a healthy manner, but it would require some really expert knowledge and guidance.

    Thank you. But:

    - Objectively (LOL), my baby is the happiest and healthiest (in appearance) of the dozen or so babies I know or have known in the past few years.
    - I'm not formally educated but I have studied nutrition since I was 15 - half my life. I've always been healthy. I am here to keep it that way, not because I don't know how to feed myself.
    - I'm a man, not a woman. Men take active roles in the diets of their babies too, you know.
    - When asking if a vegetarian (or even vegan) diet is appropriate for a child you need to remember why. It's not the meat itself that you need, it is the nutrients that are vital for us, and meat happens to contain some of them. So if those nutrients are coming from other sources, there is absolutely no need for meat. Protein and Iron, for example, can be easily covered in other ways. B12 is trickier but she gets all she needs currently from breastmilk and soy formula. Nutritional yeast, soy milk and occasional "fake meats" will suffice after that. Particularly with the yeast and fake meats, it is surprising how little you actually need to eat to get all your B12.
    - I'm not offended... you don't know me. But I'm on top of this, don't you worry. I am only here for the purposes of variety, not as a starting point.
    im sure if you thought your baby was lacking you would rethink your options

    +1
    sorry, just re-read all that and basically your daughters diet is going to be very unbalanced without all those things and youre being unfair on her.

    Are you sure you re-read all of it? She has no allergies or anything. She has a few protein sources already. I was just clarifying that I don't need to be told about soy, gluten, nut or dairy options. She has lots of soy, she gets gluten in her bread, she is too young for nuts and she gets her dairy from cheese and breastmilk.

    I am NOT "depriving" her of any sources! I just want suggestions other than the above.
    Gluten only needs to be avoided for the first 6 months. She is perfectly fine to have gluten a 1 year old,

    Like I said, I only know one thing to do with gluten. I have vital wheat gluten powder in my house for one reason. I'd like to change that. This powder is 75% protein by weight, and it could be a great source... if only I knew WTF to do with it for her.
    We obviously messed up along the way to be on this site.

    speak for yourself ;)
    Also you may want to do some research on the latest info on soy. It's pretty scary. Go to www.mercola.com amd type in soy. It is pretty much general consensus that soy in not good for us and especially young children.

    There is also the fact that it has been consumed for centuries with no known health issues.

    Soy may or may not have some issues associated with it. If it does, my takeaway from that is not "don't ever eat it again" - it is "make sure it's only a part of a balanced and healthy diet, and not the basis of it". Which is the biggest reason this thread exists.

    Don't forget, either, that Soy is taking market share away from dairy, and I imagine meat now too, and they are the ones with all the money, and they're fighting back. I would be suspicious of any study that "exposes" soy as bad for you, just as I am suspicious of "studies" that conclude anything that tastes sweet that isn't sugar will one day kill you... I think the sugar people just want their monopoly on sweet things and keep planting these seeds of doubt.

    anyway, we're getting off topic as this point is moot.
    my midwife basically told me I couldn't home birth until I got my iron up I had no choice but to eat meat.

    Or... you could have eaten some of the other foods that are high in iron aside from meat.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was the iron you needed... not the meat.... correct?
    Also, if your going vegan which is even scarier- think about vitamin B12 which ONLY is found in animal sources (dairy and meat) .

    ... and nutritional yeast.
  • Mairgheal
    Mairgheal Posts: 385 Member
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    see your pediatrician. seriously. for questions about the health of a baby i would go straight to a pro. we aren't pros. none of us. you are taking a huge risk and if you want to do that seek pro help to have all the right info.

    I agree. Nothing wrong with bringing up your child as a vegetarian, but nutrition is complicated enough as it is, I would definitely go to someone who KNOWS about these things, rather than asking random MFP'ers.
  • seventieslord
    seventieslord Posts: 59 Member
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    There are a plethora of studies that show how important animal products are to things like brain development and muscle function.

    Really? OK, show me where it says "animal products are important to things like brain development and muscle function". I'm pretty sure that "some of the nutrients contained in animal products are to things like brain development and muscle function" - and these can all be obtained elsewhere.
    I can't believe no one has mentioned QUINOA!!!

    Good point. It looks like a pretty good source that I hadn't even thought of.
    But if you eat a vegetarian baby, does that still make you a vegetarian?

    Rabbits are vegetarians, and if I eat a rabbit, I am not one. So I say no.

    How'd you like that? a serious answer to a joke question.
    Both diets can work, but, taking a look at the composition of saturated fat within breastmilk, that would generally give a hint babies and small children NEED a good source of dietary fat.

    I'm fully cognisant of this, and our baby gets plenty of fat, including saturated fat, which a lot of people may not realize is important for babies.
    The most recent case of neglect by vegan parents in the states was due to the children being emaciated and not fed adequate nutritional levels through their parents' raw vegan diet:

    http://articles.cnn.com/2005-11-08/justice/child.starved_1_andressohns-child-neglect-baby?_s=PM:LAW

    Are you saying this is the "most recent" case? it was 5.5 years ago, and there are 300 Million people in the states. I'm pretty sure I am smarter than these people. haha
    so my biggest takeaways from this thread are:

    - oats
    - seeds (sunflower, pumpkin, hemp)
    - spirulina
    - Quinoa
    - beans/grain in tandem
    - lentils

    I appreciate it, guys & gals.
  • tusher2011
    tusher2011 Posts: 201 Member
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    i'll try to be gentle...
    "it's not my choice to make for her"

    She's 1 ... you're her mom. If it's not your choice to make... who's is it? It for sure isn't your daughter's right now. You have made the decision to not feed her meat protein. At 1 year old... I'm not sure she can eat any meat unless it's been blenderized or in baby food format. You said maybe she will when she can decide for herself. Why not let her decide NOT to eat meat when she can decide for herself instead of removing it from her diet now. You have a ..presumably...completely healthy baby and you're depriving her of natural protein. Beans, legumes, soy protein is NOT the same. Whey protein is NOT the same. Yes they are good alternatives, but more as supplemental than your primary source. Your baby girl NEEDS a balanced diet and needs protein to grow properly ..and I'm not just saying lengthwise...but brain, organs, everything. Talk to your pediatrician regarding this diet that you've imposed on your daughter. If he/she says it's TOTALLY fine..then who am I to say otherwise.

    Food and kids are very sensitive topics for me. My youngest was born with a heart defect and then developed oral aversion and couldn't eat through his mouth till he was over 2 years old. Everything was pumped into his stomach through a tube. Let your daughter CHOOSE to be vegetarian or vegan when she's older. Feed her properly now so she grows up properly and then she can decide for herself. Pleaaaaaseeee..

    Wow, the ignorance in this post is pretty much, umm...laughable.

    I am was raised a vegetarian from birth...I'm 41 years old now and guess what? I grew just fine, my brain functions just fine, my organs are good too!! And, my sisters are vegetarians and they are even in better shape than me! AND...my parents and their parents. And whoa, listen to this...both of my kids are vegetarians and THEY are healthy as can be and almost at the top of their class in school. I guess we were the lucky ones that didn't turn out like stupid, under grown schmucks because we were "deprived" of meat.

    Geezus...
  • seventieslord
    seventieslord Posts: 59 Member
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    no way!!! Your organs are good too? How did that happen? ;)
  • monkeysmum
    monkeysmum Posts: 522 Member
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    There are a plethora of studies that show how important animal products are to things like brain development and muscle function.

    Really? OK, show me where it says "animal products are important to things like brain development and muscle function". I'm pretty sure that "some of the nutrients contained in animal products are to things like brain development and muscle function" - and these can all be obtained elsewhere.
    I can't believe no one has mentioned QUINOA!!!

    Good point. It looks like a pretty good source that I hadn't even thought of.
    But if you eat a vegetarian baby, does that still make you a vegetarian?

    Rabbits are vegetarians, and if I eat a rabbit, I am not one. So I say no.

    How'd you like that? a serious answer to a joke question.
    Both diets can work, but, taking a look at the composition of saturated fat within breastmilk, that would generally give a hint babies and small children NEED a good source of dietary fat.

    I'm fully cognisant of this, and our baby gets plenty of fat, including saturated fat, which a lot of people may not realize is important for babies.
    The most recent case of neglect by vegan parents in the states was due to the children being emaciated and not fed adequate nutritional levels through their parents' raw vegan diet:

    http://articles.cnn.com/2005-11-08/justice/child.starved_1_andressohns-child-neglect-baby?_s=PM:LAW

    Are you saying this is the "most recent" case? it was 5.5 years ago, and there are 300 Million people in the states. I'm pretty sure I am smarter than these people. haha
    so my biggest takeaways from this thread are:

    - oats
    - seeds (sunflower, pumpkin, hemp)
    - spirulina
    - Quinoa
    - beans/grain in tandem
    - lentils

    I appreciate it, guys & gals.

    i too shall be looking at quinoa and spirulina as i have never heard of either but lentils are a fantastic food for babies mine loved lentil curry because its soft and mushy and if you vary the lentils they get differant textures also good luck i hope baby likes them a smuch as mine did.

    as for the negative responses we all ultimatly will choose the option we agree with for our children we dont have to agree with other peoples choices just respect them it is not our place to belittle anothers belief or reasons for doing something
  • gymshoe42
    gymshoe42 Posts: 97 Member
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    i'll try to be gentle...
    "it's not my choice to make for her"

    She's 1 ... you're her mom. If it's not your choice to make... who's is it? It for sure isn't your daughter's right now. You have made the decision to not feed her meat protein. At 1 year old... I'm not sure she can eat any meat unless it's been blenderized or in baby food format. You said maybe she will when she can decide for herself. Why not let her decide NOT to eat meat when she can decide for herself instead of removing it from her diet now. You have a ..presumably...completely healthy baby and you're depriving her of natural protein. Beans, legumes, soy protein is NOT the same. Whey protein is NOT the same. Yes they are good alternatives, but more as supplemental than your primary source. Your baby girl NEEDS a balanced diet and needs protein to grow properly ..and I'm not just saying lengthwise...but brain, organs, everything. Talk to your pediatrician regarding this diet that you've imposed on your daughter. If he/she says it's TOTALLY fine..then who am I to say otherwise.

    Food and kids are very sensitive topics for me. My youngest was born with a heart defect and then developed oral aversion and couldn't eat through his mouth till he was over 2 years old. Everything was pumped into his stomach through a tube. Let your daughter CHOOSE to be vegetarian or vegan when she's older. Feed her properly now so she grows up properly and then she can decide for herself. Pleaaaaaseeee..

    Wow, the ignorance in this post is pretty much, umm...laughable.

    I am was raised a vegetarian from birth...I'm 41 years old now and guess what? I grew just fine, my brain functions just fine, my organs are good too!! And, my sisters are vegetarians and they are even in better shape than me! AND...my parents and their parents. And whoa, listen to this...both of my kids are vegetarians and THEY are healthy as can be and almost at the top of their class in school. I guess we were the lucky ones that didn't turn out like stupid, under grown schmucks because we were "deprived" of meat.

    Geezus...

    Kudos to you and your family for turning out just fine. However I fail to see the ignorance in my comments. "It's not my choice to make for her." As the parent of any child...that is a very weird thing to say. You are the parent! It is YOUR choice to make. Always. I called for a balanced diet. How is that ignorant? I said to talk to their pediatrician. How is that ignorant? I asked why not let the child decide to NOT eat meat when she's older to make that choice. How is that ignorant?

    You're imposing your beliefs onto someone that has no say nor any power to choose for themselves. Is it horrible to provide the child with the most balanced diet and when they are older, ... let them decide? So...tell me... HOW ..is this being ignorant? It's at most ...a different opinion.
  • TheMaidOfAstolat
    TheMaidOfAstolat Posts: 3,222 Member
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    We obviously messed up along the way to be on this site.

    speak for yourself ;)


    Whoa....no need to attack me. Dear Lord....I'm on your side. I'm only on this site to track my nutrients...and log my workouts.
    Dude, I've been a vegetarian my entire life and agree whole heartedly with what you're doing. Be careful before you open your mouth. I said 'we' as a collective unit....I only include myself because I am on the site. If I had said 'ya'll or you'....it would imply that you did something wrong to be on here.
  • suzycreamcheese
    suzycreamcheese Posts: 1,766 Member
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    good answers. Sounds like you know what youre doing, and tbh, if shes eating cheese and getting breastmilk, and maybe bread, toast and beans, as well as soya products and seems happy and healthy im sure shes getting absolutely adequate protein

    :o)
  • taso42_DELETED
    taso42_DELETED Posts: 3,394 Member
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    good answers. Sounds like you know what youre doing, and tbh, if shes eating cheese and getting breastmilk, and maybe bread, toast and beans, as well as soya products and seems happy and healthy im sure shes getting absolutely adequate protein

    :o)

    Yes, I'm relieved. I was mostly alarmed with the no dairy comment in the original post. At the time, it wasn't clear that you said that because dairy was already covered; but rather, it looked like you were not giving the kid dairy and weren't intending to do so.
  • seventieslord
    seventieslord Posts: 59 Member
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    I asked why not let the child decide to NOT eat meat when she's older to make that choice.

    that's coming from a person whose worldview is clearly that eating meat is normal, natural, necessary, and right. That is not my worldview. Surely you can understand why I would choose to not introduce meats to her until she can make a mature, informed decision.

    I wasn't given a choice as a child and I regret that.
  • seventieslord
    seventieslord Posts: 59 Member
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    Whoa....no need to attack me. Dear Lord....I'm on your side. I'm only on this site to track my nutrients...and log my workouts.
    Dude, I've been a vegetarian my entire life and agree whole heartedly with what you're doing. Be careful before you open your mouth. I said 'we' as a collective unit....I only include myself because I am on the site. If I had said 'ya'll or you'....it would imply that you did something wrong to be on here.

    that's a bit of an overreaction considering my post contained a smiley and the fact that I have had to answer veiled concerns about what I really know about nutrition... it was worth pointing out (twice) - and not necessarily to you, I might add, that I am not here because I screwed up in the past.

    Perhaps I should have phrased it "not me!" would that have been better? Because that is all I really meant.
  • lalalazzz
    lalalazzz Posts: 131 Member
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    Regarding iron, obviously I tried non-meat forms of iron as well as vegetarian supplements. I tried every single vegetarian way to get iron- it wouldn't absorb. I tried for months. You need heme iron in order ro absorb the vegetarian non-heme form of iron. Heme iron is only found in meat. So you can take in tons and tons of non-heme iron it just won't absorb. When a food claims to have x amount of iron, 0% may be getting absorbed into your body. You wouldn't know without a blood test whether or not your daughter had adequate iron.
  • lalalazzz
    lalalazzz Posts: 131 Member
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    Oh and also, for many centuriea asians have been consuming FERMENTED non-GMO soy products!!! But I really don't have time to get into that. Just know that the soy in the markets today is NOT the soy tbat asains have enjoyed for centuries.
  • DancinSMartiPants
    DancinSMartiPants Posts: 363
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    First off, don't freak out. My two year old is still a vegetarian although we have offered him hormone-free meat options. It looks strange to him so he doesn't eat it. HOWEVER, he LOVES room-temperature beans of all kinds-- chickpeas, red beans, black beans, white beans-- and I serve them to him like finger food. He also likes tofu that has been cubed and sauteed.

    We also fed my daughter vegetarian only until she turned two, but she took to meat products almost as soon as they were offered to her. She didn't like beans as much when she was younger, but she LOVED eggs scrambled in olive oil.

    Both of my children are tall, robust, happy, and healthy.
  • freerange
    freerange Posts: 1,722 Member
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    Your protein should come from as many sources as possible.

    YES THEY SHOULD
  • seventieslord
    seventieslord Posts: 59 Member
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    Regarding iron, obviously I tried non-meat forms of iron as well as vegetarian supplements. I tried every single vegetarian way to get iron- it wouldn't absorb. I tried for months. You need heme iron in order ro absorb the vegetarian non-heme form of iron. Heme iron is only found in meat. So you can take in tons and tons of non-heme iron it just won't absorb. When a food claims to have x amount of iron, 0% may be getting absorbed into your body. You wouldn't know without a blood test whether or not your daughter had adequate iron.

    thank you for the clarification.
    Oh and also, for many centuriea asians have been consuming FERMENTED non-GMO soy products!!! But I really don't have time to get into that. Just know that the soy in the markets today is NOT the soy tbat asains have enjoyed for centuries.

    You're telling me they didn't eat Edamame and stuff like that? They only made miso and soy sauce?

    I think I saw in Food Inc that 90% of the soy out there is GMO. What's strange about that is that it's not in any way congruent with my own diet. I swear a good 50-75% of the soy we eat in my family is organic.

    With that said, I'm not too scared of GMO stuff anyway. A GMO plant is essentially a "what-if" version of it, with the "evolution" forced by man. If a vegetable naturally evolved to be better in some way (assuming it could in a measurable period of time), I think we'd still eat it, we would not denouce it as some freaky mutant.
  • littleveg
    littleveg Posts: 5 Member
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    Don't forget, either, that Soy is taking market share away from dairy, and I imagine meat now too, and they are the ones with all the money, and they're fighting back. I would be suspicious of any study that "exposes" soy as bad for you

    Love it!!!! so true.
    i believe variety is key no matter what you are choosing to eat or not eat. sounds like you are doing an amazing job looking out for your child and yourself.

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