Warning to never eat below your BMR?

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  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    According to the scooby calculator it tells me my BMR is 1614, my TDEE (the amount needed to maintain my current weight) is 1937 and that my daily calories to lose should be 1452 (that is with 25% reduction or a deficit of 484 cal/day). I typically eat 1200-1400 cal/day and then exercise 100-200 cal/day but I normally do not eat back my exercise calories so I am netting 1000-1300 cal/day if my math is correct. From what I gather that means I am eating below BMR? I've tried over the last week to increase my calories and I get scared of netting 1400 even though that's what the scooby calculator tells me to do.

    My thinking is if I'm not losing very fast eating such a large calorie deficit now then how am I going to lose if I increase it?

    These are all estimates, but based on these numbers (not including the exercise), you'd be losing on average about 1.2 to 1.3 lb/week at 1300. If you did the 25% deficit, you'd be losing a bit under a lb/week. That's what people often don't understand about the 20% of TDEE deficit--if one's TDEE is around 2000 (common if one is lighter or sedentary or some combination), then even 20% of TDEE is less than a pound. That's why it gives you a much different number sometimes than MFP (based on a goal of 2 lb/week or some such). NOT because there's some magical way that eating more makes you lose more.

    Anyway, as others have said, once you have your own numbers, those are what govern, not the theoretical ones, although I find it still worth comparing with the theoretical ones to see if the numbers I'm getting seem to make sense, are high or low compared to average, etc. I suppose if mine were way off I'd want to talk to a doctor about whether that means something is wrong. Yours seem a bit low, but not really weirdly so. It could easily be due to normal variation or just imperfections in estimating everything.

    Now of course it's better not to have an overly aggressive deficit, which is why MFP caps it at 1200 and 2 lbs/week (1200 also because one needs a minimum number of calories to get adequate nutrition, etc.). But in your case (and mine, back when I started), MFP's recommendation is low because your numbers are already low, not because it's an aggressive deficit. It still may be a more aggressive deficit than you want--it's better to lose more slowly if the alternative is not sustainable or miserable, etc. But if you are happy with what you are eating and only losing about a lb/week fluctuating between 1200 and 1400, I see no particular benefit to raising calories just because of some idea about your BMR.
  • tracie_minus100
    tracie_minus100 Posts: 465 Member
    I get confused about eating/not eating below my BMR as well, but mainly because I have gotten a range of answers from different BMR calculators. I've been told anywhere from 1900-2150. I know it's just an estimate but it's making me confused about what my calorie intake should be. MFP has it at 1820 (to lose 1lb a week) but that seems low. I originally had it at 2000 but even that is considered low if my BMR is actually over 2000. I have a lot of weight to lose so maybe I don't need to worry about eating under BMR as much? I'm not sure.
    Confused. LOL

    I wouldn't worry about your BMR. Just pick a deficit that seems reasonable to you and take it off of your TDEE (or just use MFP).

    If your BMR is 1900 to 2150 and you are sedentary, then you'd have a TDEE of 2280 to 2580. If you are more active, it would be higher. If MFP tells you to eat 1820 to lose 1 lb a week, that means it is estimating your maintenance (without exercise) at about 2320, which is perfectly consistent with that range.

    If you are happy losing 1 lb/week, I'd start with the MFP number and see what you actually lose and then adjust. Remember that the way MFP works is that you add back in your exercise calories or some reasonable amount of them, which is yet another reason why worry about whether your BMR is below your MFP goal seems an unnecessary complication. A deficit of 500 when you have a lot to lose is not overly aggressive for most people.

    Thanks :)
  • xxhaloxkittyxx
    xxhaloxkittyxx Posts: 13 Member
    Argh, I'm still finding the concept understanding of BMR and TDEE really overwhelming (is that stupid?!) It makes sense, but I don't get it? Although I pretty much still eat at mostly below my minimum calorie goal, I stopped losing any thing ages ago. But, I'm scared that if I increase to boost weight loss again, then it'll pile back on? *confused face*
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Argh, I'm still finding the concept understanding of BMR and TDEE really overwhelming (is that stupid?!) It makes sense, but I don't get it? Although I pretty much still eat at mostly below my minimum calorie goal, I stopped losing any thing ages ago. But, I'm scared that if I increase to boost weight loss again, then it'll pile back on? *confused face*

    Pile what back on?

    Water or fat?

    What if you knew the first big amount of weight loss was purely water weight (which it was) - would that matter?

    What if you knew you do cardio outside in summer your blood volume will increase with more water - would it matter?

    What if you knew you were depleted in normal muscle carb stores, with attached water, maintaining a false lower weight that would go back up when you ate normal - would it matter?

    Or do you rather care about losing fat? Fat from places that people see, inches, no matter what it might happen to weigh?

    TDEE is literally a daily thing, and MFP actually uses that method.
    They start with non-exercise TDEE basically, maintenance. Take a deficit off. Because you merely need to eat less than you burn to lose weight.
    But when your exercise, your real TDEE for that day goes up by whatever you burned in exercise. Take the exact same deficit off that now bigger number, and you obviously eat more.

    But in both cases - you are eating less than you burn, each day, exercise or not.

    BMR, what you body burns for basic functions of metabolism (all day burn is NOT metabolism), is the life sustain functions.
    You got muscles helping you breath, muscles pumping your heart, brain using energy (more when awake), growing hair/nail/skin? You are burning those calories all day long.
    You also burn calories processing food, from the muscles moving it along, to the breaking it down and transporting it.
    You also burn more calories when you wake up and start moving.
    And of course if you go out and purposely exercise.

    Add all that up - that's TDEE, which obviously is very variable daily, but you can estimate a rough amount.

    MFP just leaves the exercise out of that list until you really do it. Then you log it, TDEE goes up, you eat more.

    So here's a fun test, because you are obviously eating at maintenance right now. Whether that be whatever number you think your are, or include the binges that may happen because it's so low, or add on for the inaccuracies in bad food logging.
    You are eating at maintenance right now.
    But is it suppressed maintenance because your body didn't like what you were doing to it, or potential maintenance and your numbers are just terrible estimates?

    Eat 250 more calories daily for 2 weeks.
    Guess how much you gain slowly if you were already eating at true potential maintenance?
    1 pound. Reread that.

    If you gain more or faster, then it's obviously water weight, because fat can't go on that fast eating a mere 250 more.
    What that does prove though, is your body is still getting less than it wants, and it has you with depleted carb stores in the muscles, which stores with water.
    You eat 250 more for 3 days and gain 1 lb, you just increased those carb stores.
    Good, needed, normal, carb stores. If you think it's bad weight, then you should bleed yourself too, because there is likely unneeded blood volume with extra water weight too.
    Foolish thinking on both parts though.

    You may also gain none - which means your body increased it's daily burn to match what you are feeding it - meaning prior eating level was obviously not potential maintenance or TDEE.
  • xxhaloxkittyxx
    xxhaloxkittyxx Posts: 13 Member
    That's actually one of the more logical responses I've had to that question.. it's a good way of looking at it, and thank you for clarifying the differences between MFP and TDEE too, it's been a bit baffling! >.< Water isn't so much, it's more the fat which scares me. My BMI is around 19 now, but that's from coming down at a BMI of 31 a few years ago prior to having an eating disorder, so my metabolism.. I'm sure.. is a bit messed up any way!
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 8,967 Member
    xxhalokitty, you have a BMI of 19 and you are stil ltrying to lose weight?
    Why?
  • xxhaloxkittyxx
    xxhaloxkittyxx Posts: 13 Member
    It's more a worry of how to maintain whilst knowing I'm really not functioning to my best ability (probably due to deficit) as it is. That's where the confusion of TDEE etc came from
  • rosebette
    rosebette Posts: 1,659 Member
    It's more a worry of how to maintain whilst knowing I'm really not functioning to my best ability (probably due to deficit) as it is. That's where the confusion of TDEE etc came from

    However, you mentioned earlier in this thread that you are eating below your BMR to maintain. If you're a BMI of 19, then you need to be eating more than your BMR. People eat at BMR or below to lose weight, not maintain
  • xxhaloxkittyxx
    xxhaloxkittyxx Posts: 13 Member
    Thank you! :)
  • Mariachicat
    Mariachicat Posts: 311 Member
    I have eaten below my BMR (by approx 200 calories) and lived to tell the tale.
    I did this for 2 weeks at a time, AND exercised 5 days per week during this phase.
    Worked REALLY well for scrubbing fat.

    I may try this again, although I would keep it to Short Controlled Bursts, and not just because it's an awesome album. (Google will help with my non-sequitor). Eating below BMR would likely be tough on a body if done for an extended period of time, although I have no actual proof on which to base this idea....

    ^^This seems right to me.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    It's more a worry of how to maintain whilst knowing I'm really not functioning to my best ability (probably due to deficit) as it is. That's where the confusion of TDEE etc came from

    And that's where the confusion of estimated TDEE comes in too for the vast majority.

    There is not this knowledge that you can actually effect the TDEE by what you take in.

    Meaning you can cause yourself to burn less daily, by eating too little.

    Sadly it doesn't work the other way around constantly. Eat too much, it does increase metabolism and daily burn for short bursts, but in general, constantly take in more than you burn and what you burn only goes up ever so slightly because of the increased fat mass.

    But constantly undereat by too much, and that can vary depending on genetics and how much your body can handle as stress, and your body will adapt by actually burning less.

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/heybales/view/reduced-metabolism-tdee-beyond-expected-from-weight-loss-616251
  • TCNutritionhealthworks
    TCNutritionhealthworks Posts: 2 Member
    edited November 2015
    Wow there is a lot of posts on this questions and a lot of good (and bad) responses. Here you go folks-

    There are 4 main areas of weight management:
    Weight Gain- eating more than your TEE (Total Energy Expenditure)
    Weight Maintenance- eating equivalent to your TEE
    Weight Loss- eating ABOVE your RMR/BMR (Resting Metabolic Rate/Basic Metabolic Rate) but BELOW your TEE
    Starvation Mode- Eating BELOW your RMR/BMR

    Consistently eating below your RMR means your body is not getting enough calories to operate organs so it will generally burn MUSCLE calories to make up the difference. In addition, you metabolism will SLOW DOWN to compensate for the lack of calories until the intake matches the output. This generally means your body fat may go down slightly, your weight will go down (your are decreasing muscle weight) and your inches will go down (again, muscle decline). This looks GREAT to someone who doesn't know better, BUT, the end result is a decrease in muscle and a rapid decrease in metabolism= NOT GOOD!

    Advice: Find a comfortable calorie window between your RMR/BMR and your TEE and you will LOSE WEIGHT while MAINTAINING lean body mass (muscle).

    You WILL NOT know what your true RMR/BMR is until you have it tested so go do it!!

    Intermittent fasts are fine, it's the consistent lack of calories over time that's the issue.


    Credentials: Bachelors in Nutrition and minor Human Biology and I've been practicing for 8 years
  • Liftng4Lis
    Liftng4Lis Posts: 15,150 Member
    heybales wrote: »
    But say if I weighed 220 instead of 120, that would mean that I shouldn't eat below 1800, yet that is the number of calories to keep a sedentary, overweight person at the same weight he/she currently is. Wouldn't it make sense for that person to eat less than that to lose?

    Please re-examine what these things mean - you are confusing yourself.

    BMR - what your body would like to burn sleeping deeply 24 hrs daily. As you weigh less, this goes down slowly.

    TDEE - what your body burns in total, including BMR, food processing, normal daily activity, and specific exercise if done. As you weigh less, this really goes down faster, because not only is BMR lower, but you are moving less mass around and eating less food.

    To lose weight, you merely need to eat below what you burn daily, therefore, eat below TDEE. That's what MFP is trying to do if you use the tool correctly.

    BMR is a line in the sand that many people draw - because obviously there is a lower limit to reasonable and healthy and creating an unhealthy body, and you are only going to lose weight and hopefully just fat with a healthy body. Make it unhealthy, it'll fight you for any loss.
    Now, if you are lucky enough to be measured out the wazoo because you are in a research study, and they know exactly your BMR, your TDEE, you are healthy except for being overweight, no medical issues, and you keep getting testing the whole time - then indeed you may be given an eating goal below your BMR, and you may be fine for negative effects.

    But barring that ability (even under Dr supervision doesn't include those things either), draw a line in the sand, and BMR is an easy one.

    Just get it as accurate as you can - using Katch BMR which needs your bodyfat %.

    And to the point of being in studies being safer with no negative effects. Not true either actually. They are just accepted negative effects.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i_cmltmQ6A

    BOOM!
  • itsandreababy
    itsandreababy Posts: 1 Member
    You can eat below your BMR and you'll be fine... I've done so myself when wanting to lose the last few pounds...

    As you lose weight, you need less calories...

    I would calculate my TDEE and subtract 250 to 500 cals from that number... Try that for 3 weeks, if you aren't losing weight make sure you are calculating your calories correctly (weighing all food on a scale)... then, if you're counting calories correctly and still not losing weight, subtract another 250...

    I would also consider, doing cardio (HIIT is my favorite) and adding weight training to increase your TDEE...
  • PaulaWallaDingDong
    PaulaWallaDingDong Posts: 4,641 Member
    chadya07 wrote: »
    ...so unless you plan on sleeping your way thin...

    If only I didn't have to work for a living... :disappointed:
  • jennybearlv
    jennybearlv Posts: 1,519 Member
    I forgot about the never eat below BMR fad. I have no idea why someone created an account to give advice on a three year old thread, but nostalgic.
  • Veganvibesss
    Veganvibesss Posts: 123 Member
    My bmr is about 1500 and I eat 1200-1300 A day to lose weight because I can't excersize well enough to burn off calories. (Car accident, fractured spine, major concussion)
    I've lost 60+
    I'd assume if I were to be more active throughout the day I would have to eat more so I didn't feel sick