CREATINE INTAKE of 25g per day instead of 5g. Is that "normal"?

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Hi everyone,

I must say, I am a big fun of John Kiefer.
I ve read his books and I am actually implementing his famous "Carb backloading" (CBL) Programme, and it works!

This post is however not about CBT, but about CREATINE Supplementation, which actually is part of CBL

Anyway, lets jump to the Topic.
So, in one of his articles on one of his websites (Source: http://athlete.io/4117/the-ultimate-guide-to-creatine-supplementation-part-3/ )

he (Kiefer) says that...

...if you are a 200 pound male with 10 percent body fat, the minimum amount of creatine needed on a daily basis to maintain maximum intracellular levels is 27.3.grams of creatine monohydrate.

This contradicts to the standard "common knowledge" guidance of Fitness Industries' "experts".
Normally you hear that you should do a loading phase of 5 days, where you consume 20g of creatine per day and then you take 5g creatine per day.

Guys and girls, what is your opinion on that?

Please read the article first before you share your opinion.

Thank you!


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Replies

  • pinggolfer96
    pinggolfer96 Posts: 2,248 Member
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    Creatine loading is not necessary. I find it to be just another way for the supplement industry to steal your money even quicker. 5 grams a day, at anytime of day is optimal.
  • ecjim
    ecjim Posts: 1,001 Member
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    There are different thought on the loading phase - bottom line it won't make a lot of difference either way - 5- 10 gms per day is fine unless you are loading - Eastcoast Jim
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,401 MFP Moderator
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    Dont forget you natually get creatine from meat.
  • memo1974
    memo1974 Posts: 57 Member
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    I tried it, did not see any results. Got some stomach issues by taking so much creatine, but I did not notice any gains. Cheers
  • dwolfe1985
    dwolfe1985 Posts: 100 Member
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    psulemon wrote: »
    Dont forget you natually get creatine from meat.

    Yeah it is red meat but you would need a monsterous amount to get 5g of creatine. I tried it when i first started lifting and especially during loading noticed a vast difference. I have since tried it as a early intermediate and no effect apart from getting cramps.
  • klrenn
    klrenn Posts: 245 Member
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    As a 125lb woman, would less than 5g a day be adequate or is the dosage the same regardless?
  • tsalagirose
    tsalagirose Posts: 97 Member
    edited November 2015
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    klrenn wrote: »
    As a 125lb woman, would less than 5g a day be adequate or is the dosage the same regardless?


    I take about 10 grams a day
  • HamsterManV2
    HamsterManV2 Posts: 449 Member
    edited November 2015
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    http://examine.com/supplements/creatine/

    Scientific studies show 5g of creatine daily is enough. Some people do choose to load it.

    "It is not needed, it can be used as diagnosis to see if you 'respond' to creatine or to get slightly quicker benefits but in the long run loading is not a requirement of creatine supplementation. No harm in it either, except perhaps digestive discomfort"
    Source
  • George5891
    George5891 Posts: 33 Member
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    Thanks everyone for contributing to this post. But I think no one has read the article, that I have attached to my first post, which I used as a prime reference...

    So Please check at least this passage out:


    These studies found that 20 grams per day of creatine, taken for five days, successfully raised muscle creatine content by 30-45 percent. The problem with the vast majority of these studies, however, is that they only lasted five to seven days—and yet we’ve been using them to make recommendations for people who supplement for months on end.
    NOTE: I was not exhaustive in my search, but I pulled a large sample of research across different modes of inquiry, e.g., looking for improvements in endurance, strength, power, and one-repetition max.
    Of the 47 studies, only 4 tested or employed a protocol lasting longer than 14 days and attempted to use a maintenance dosage of creatine[1-47]. The idea in these studies is to load for five days at a high level—the standard 20 grams per day—then maintain that supraphysiological concentration with 2-3 grams daily thereafter. This protocol was first tested in 1996 with apparent positive results[48]. It’s been used ever since.
    This maintenance protocol should have seemed a bit suspect to other researchers, but only if they’d taken the time to consider that a 150 pound male (approximately 70 kilograms) will burn through about two grams of creatine naturally every day[49]. Since 95 percent of creatine exists within muscle tissue, the average resistance-trained athlete would require greater amounts of creatine just to maintain normal cellular levels.
    It wasn’t until 2003 that researchers tested this maintenance protocol using more advanced methods of determining intracellular creatine levels. The group found that after two weeks of using the standard maintenance protocol outlined above, intracellular creatine levels returned to baseline[47]. In other words, the maintenance procedure didn’t maintain anything.
    NOTE: The 2g/day maintenance level is the current recommendation by the American College of Sports Medicine’s expert panel on creatine[50].

    Source : http://athlete.io/4117/the-ultimate-guide-to-creatine-supplementation-part-3/


    Scientific studies show 5g of creatine daily is enough. Some people do choose to load it.

    I am using about 25 g a day for a month and i have gained 3kg of weight... thgats my biggest question. Is that all due creatine and is that normal?

    My goal is to bulk.

    Taa

  • HamsterManV2
    HamsterManV2 Posts: 449 Member
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    I believe it increases water retention in your muscles, so if you were to lower your creatine intake, your weight would also decrease a bit. Not 100% sure.
  • _Bropollo_
    _Bropollo_ Posts: 168 Member
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    You can't absorb that much creatine, any excess will just be eliminated from your body.
  • musclesandmusic866
    musclesandmusic866 Posts: 1,396 Member
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    I take 5g in the morning then 5 pre workout. Scares me to take more. Not good for the kidneys.
  • bellaa_x0
    bellaa_x0 Posts: 1,062 Member
    edited November 2015
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    I take 5g in the morning then 5 pre workout. Scares me to take more. Not good for the kidneys.

    Agree - you should be drinking a lot more water than normal while using creatine due to the possible effects on the kidneys.
  • DaddieCat
    DaddieCat Posts: 3,643 Member
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    I take 5g in the morning then 5 pre workout. Scares me to take more. Not good for the kidneys.
    bellaa_x0 wrote: »
    I take 5g in the morning then 5 pre workout. Scares me to take more. Not good for the kidneys.

    Agree - you should be drinking a lot more water than normal while using creatine due to the possible effects on the kidneys.

    Can either of you provide sources for this? All studies that I've seen show no threat to kidneys in human usage and trials over as much as a 19 month period? If you've seen something I haven't, well, I'd sure like to see it.
  • musclesandmusic866
    musclesandmusic866 Posts: 1,396 Member
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    I take 5g in the morning then 5 pre workout. Scares me to take more. Not good for the kidneys.
    bellaa_x0 wrote: »
    I take 5g in the morning then 5 pre workout. Scares me to take more. Not good for the kidneys.

    Agree - you should be drinking a lot more water than normal while using creatine due to the possible effects on the kidneys.

    Can either of you provide sources for this? All studies that I've seen show no threat to kidneys in human usage and trials over as much as a 19 month period? If you've seen something I haven't, well, I'd sure like to see it.

    No it's called common sense....your kidneys have to process that *kitten* man. I don't need a study...and besides you can manipulate the data in a study to the top seller. How else do you think big pharma got so big?!?!
  • DaddieCat
    DaddieCat Posts: 3,643 Member
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    I take 5g in the morning then 5 pre workout. Scares me to take more. Not good for the kidneys.
    bellaa_x0 wrote: »
    I take 5g in the morning then 5 pre workout. Scares me to take more. Not good for the kidneys.

    Agree - you should be drinking a lot more water than normal while using creatine due to the possible effects on the kidneys.

    Can either of you provide sources for this? All studies that I've seen show no threat to kidneys in human usage and trials over as much as a 19 month period? If you've seen something I haven't, well, I'd sure like to see it.

    No it's called common sense....your kidneys have to process that *kitten* man. I don't need a study...and besides you can manipulate the data in a study to the top seller. How else do you think big pharma got so big?!?!

    I won't argue that big pharma is big, but that has nothing to do with independent studies and whether science is sound. Being that creatine is the most widely used and cheapest of all supplements available I'm seriously doubting that creatine ever had any financial impact on "bigPharma".

    Science is science whether you choose to agree with it or not, and whether you choose to support conspiracy theories or not.

    Burden of proof is on the person making the claim and "common sense" sure didn't stop anyone from dong anything harmful in the past... if you want to take that route, let's talk about things like radium elixers or anti-vaxxers, who also claim a stand point of "common sense".

    Since MFP's forum is a forum whose purpose is educating those who need assistance regarding health, nutrition, weightloss etc, making faulty claims and citing "common sense" is well, pretty much the opposite of that.

    Now, I've personally read 10 studies in the last hour on this topic to see if there was a cause for concern as it is now common practice to recommend creatine supplementation to all vegetarians, vegans, and elderly, I wanted to know if there was any health concern there.

    Every study that I've read, has born the burden of proof, been peer reviewed, and published, and says nothing about health problems to either liver or kidney functions, nor increase in venous blood levels or urea excretion.

    As stated above, creatine is the most widely studied supplement available and has been proven time and time again to be safe.

    That has nothing to do with "Big Pharma" and doesn't make a fortune for anyone.
  • musclesandmusic866
    musclesandmusic866 Posts: 1,396 Member
    edited November 2015
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    Go with that! Good luck! I personally will error on the side of common sense and caution. Is it really worth it? Really? Eat more dude... and lift heavier. Old School!! Don't over think this crap!
  • Aani15
    Aani15 Posts: 172 Member
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    Go with that! Good luck! I personally will error on the side of common sense and caution. Is it really worth it? Really? Eat more dude... and lift heavier. Old School!! Don't over think this crap!

    You're kidding right?
    Overthinking?

    MFP community has over time kicked non-sense out of common sense and believe in claims backed by science.
    It is not Facebook, it is a real deal.
  • Aani15
    Aani15 Posts: 172 Member
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    bellaa_x0 wrote: »
    I take 5g in the morning then 5 pre workout. Scares me to take more. Not good for the kidneys.

    Agree - you should be drinking a lot more water than normal while using creatine due to the possible effects on the kidneys.

    If you can not find a scientific reference to back up your comment, then this comment should better be erased, forever! ;)
  • Aani15
    Aani15 Posts: 172 Member
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    OP, on a related topic, overconsumption of protein, I have come across this website, authentic 100%.
    Not sure if the information shared is backed up by legit research. But worth a read.
    http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition/factsheets/body_size_and_shape/increasing_muscle_mass