HIIT for someone whose BF is 21~22%

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qkrzazzang
qkrzazzang Posts: 67 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
I'm 5'8 at 175 pounds. I want to bring my body fat down to 15% with progressive exercise and health eating.
For my exercise other than weight training, I spend 60 minutes on the treadmill Mon, Wed, Fri and Sun, 5 minutes at 3.0~3.5mph followed by 5 minutes at 5.5mph, and repeat this process 6 times. My treadmill says about 600kal burned (with the input of my current weight and age if makes it accurate by all means). I was wondering what would actually burn more calories between my treadmill routine and HIIT cycling for about 20 minutes (5-7 repetitions).
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  • tillerstouch
    tillerstouch Posts: 608 Member
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    I do a hit cycle usually a minute to minute ratio switching between 3 and 9 on the treadmill. It's usually 20 minutes with a 3 minute warmup cool down include. I weight 180 and it says I've burned usually aroind 200 calories. So simple answer your longer run probably burns more calories. But there are some studies that say doing hiit burns more calories over the long run and it's great for your heart. I would say try switching between both
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
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    Calories in Calories out. It's your calorie intake not your calorie burn.
  • qkrzazzang
    qkrzazzang Posts: 67 Member
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    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Calories in Calories out. It's your calorie intake not your calorie burn.

    I'd say calorie intake as well as calorie burn
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
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    Accurate calorie tracking is tantamount, in and out.
  • qkrzazzang
    qkrzazzang Posts: 67 Member
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    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Accurate calorie tracking is tantamount, in and out.

    True, but the calorie counting & ingredient weighing and all that sort of things are already in check, and I wasn't asking about that..
  • gdyment
    gdyment Posts: 299 Member
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    How "intense" are your 5.5mph segments? Ever done any sort of 5 or 10k race or run with a heart rate monitor?
  • robertw486
    robertw486 Posts: 2,390 Member
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    qkrzazzang wrote: »
    I'm 5'8 at 175 pounds. I want to bring my body fat down to 15% with progressive exercise and health eating.
    For my exercise other than weight training, I spend 60 minutes on the treadmill Mon, Wed, Fri and Sun, 5 minutes at 3.0~3.5mph followed by 5 minutes at 5.5mph, and repeat this process 6 times. My treadmill says about 600kal burned (with the input of my current weight and age if makes it accurate by all means). I was wondering what would actually burn more calories between my treadmill routine and HIIT cycling for about 20 minutes (5-7 repetitions).

    The vast majority of people will maximize calorie burn if you just find your speed/heart rate threshold for the total time you have to exercise, assuming your appropriate muscle groups (in this case mostly legs) are up to it. Intervals are great for helping you learn to breathe properly, work the muscles harder, and for general cardio building. But in terms of calorie burn, the elevated HR from HIIT type stuff will reach a point where your HR doesn't settle as quickly, and from there is is usually all downhill for performance.

    As for accuracy, depends on the machine and the formulas and inputs they use. Quite a few of the various cardio machines also show calorie burn for a standard formula used to approximate resting metabolism, as well as the speed/distance involved. But if you really want to nail it down you can find a trusted running calculator to compare to.

    We have an elliptical at home, and they are a different beast since the stride is set but they use ramp angle and/or resistance to calculate calorie burn. But I can easily burn more calories doing steady state vs HIIT type training. On lower intensity intervals I can make the calorie count closer, but to do that requires a shorter high intensity output, and ramp down the recovery period more.


    I often use the calories per minute to set an output reasonable for the time I've got, then if I've got energy in the tank do some higher output intervals the last 5-10 minutes, to maximize what I can output on any given day.
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
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    How do you determine your calorie burns? Machines are notoriously inaccurate and MFP is not much better.
  • qkrzazzang
    qkrzazzang Posts: 67 Member
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    gdyment wrote: »
    How "intense" are your 5.5mph segments? Ever done any sort of 5 or 10k race or run with a heart rate monitor?

    I do get pretty tired after 5 minutes of run at 5.5mph. Never done 5k or 10k. I've been slowly building up my endurance in the past 2 months. I remember I ran out of breath within 3 minutes or so at 4.5 mph run by then lol. I wouldn't say a fast progress but it is there. For my first 20 minutes or so, I can do my running segments at 6 mph for 5 mins but then I bring back down to 5.5 afterwards.
  • robertw486
    robertw486 Posts: 2,390 Member
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    It takes time to build speed or endurance. If you're making progress, that's all that really matters. You can go for a lower speed for a set time, then gradually as you build add speed for that same time. Of you can go for a higher speed, and gradually increase the amount of time/distance you can run at that speed.

    If the machines have a heart rate monitor, that is a great tool. With that and the wattage readouts on my elliptical I can figure out where I can sustain for quite a while and where just a little more effort really starts lifting my heart rate and leads to burning out quicker.
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
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    qkrzazzang wrote: »
    I'm 5'8 at 175 pounds. I want to bring my body fat down to 15% with progressive exercise and health eating.
    For my exercise other than weight training, I spend 60 minutes on the treadmill Mon, Wed, Fri and Sun, 5 minutes at 3.0~3.5mph followed by 5 minutes at 5.5mph, and repeat this process 6 times. My treadmill says about 600kal burned (with the input of my current weight and age if makes it accurate by all means). I was wondering what would actually burn more calories between my treadmill routine and HIIT cycling for about 20 minutes (5-7 repetitions).

    You're doing 4 x 60 mins HIIT plus 3 x progressive weights? When is rest day?
  • Pdxfarah
    Pdxfarah Posts: 4 Member
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    Hiit burns more fat...but at 60 minutes your working into burning muscle. .. lift weights then 25 mins Cardio x 2 one morning one later in the day. Saves the muscle burns the fat
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
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    With running you can't really work on speed and endurance at the same time. You should try running more and walking less every week.
  • robertw486
    robertw486 Posts: 2,390 Member
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    farahv wrote: »
    Hiit burns more fat...but at 60 minutes your working into burning muscle. .. lift weights then 25 mins Cardio x 2 one morning one later in the day. Saves the muscle burns the fat

    Unless a person is severely lacking in nutrition, you aren't burning muscle at 60 minutes into a moderate paced run. For most people they could do that distance on glycogen stores and fat alone without bonking.

    And the entire fat burning zone vs cardio zone has been proven wrong time and time again. The way to burn the most calories and potentially fat depending on intake, is to burn the most you can in a given amount of time. And few if anyone will do that doing HIIT training, as the time interval ends up being short.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,701 Member
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    farahv wrote: »
    Hiit burns more fat...but at 60 minutes your working into burning muscle. .. lift weights then 25 mins Cardio x 2 one morning one later in the day. Saves the muscle burns the fat
    No HIIT doesn't burn more fat. People who are experience in physiology know that higher intensity exercise utilizes glycogen as the main source of energy.

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  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
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    qkrzazzang wrote: »
    .... I spend 60 minutes on the treadmill Mon, Wed, Fri and Sun, 5 minutes at 3.0~3.5mph followed by 5 minutes at 5.5mph, and repeat this process 6 times. My treadmill says about 600kal burned (with the input of my current weight and age if makes it accurate by all means).

    So the question I'd ask is, what are you trying to achieve from the time on the treadmill? Expending energy (calories), improving endurance and stamina etc?

    As you're walking and then running reasonably slowly I'd be very surprised if you're covering the distance needed to expend 600 cals,but what I would say is that HIIT wouldn't expend more energy, if you're doing it properly. Despite the miracle cure claims of many the purpose of HIIT is somewhat different.

    Essentially if you're wanting to burn more energy in that hour you need to concentrate on increasing the distance you cover in the time, as you highlight you can run for longr at a time now. What I'd suggest is using a structured running programme. As you're already doing an hour then you can probably drop into a Couch to 10K plan about 4 weeks in. For me that 600 calories is about 10K of running, although I'm a bit lighter than you.

    fwiw I wouldn't swap out your resistance training sessions for cycling at the moment.
  • LKArgh
    LKArgh Posts: 5,179 Member
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    qkrzazzang wrote: »
    I'm 5'8 at 175 pounds. I want to bring my body fat down to 15% with progressive exercise and health eating.
    For my exercise other than weight training, I spend 60 minutes on the treadmill Mon, Wed, Fri and Sun, 5 minutes at 3.0~3.5mph followed by 5 minutes at 5.5mph, and repeat this process 6 times. My treadmill says about 600kal burned (with the input of my current weight and age if makes it accurate by all means). I was wondering what would actually burn more calories between my treadmill routine and HIIT cycling for about 20 minutes (5-7 repetitions).

    You are not at 21% body fat with 80+ lbs to lose. Something is off either in your calculations or your goals when you set up your MFP account.
    Other than this, if the goal is increased calorie burn, aim for distance. Either by increasing speed or duration. If you are alternating between 3 and 5.5 mph per hour, you have definitely room for improving speed and distance covered. Maybe look into a beginner running program to adapt your intervals. This 5 min slow 5 min faster plan leaves a lot of room for improvement.
  • _Terrapin_
    _Terrapin_ Posts: 4,301 Member
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    qkrzazzang wrote: »
    I'm 5'8 at 175 pounds. I want to bring my body fat down to 15% with progressive exercise and health eating.
    For my exercise other than weight training, I spend 60 minutes on the treadmill Mon, Wed, Fri and Sun, 5 minutes at 3.0~3.5mph followed by 5 minutes at 5.5mph, and repeat this process 6 times. My treadmill says about 600kal burned (with the input of my current weight and age if makes it accurate by all means). I was wondering what would actually burn more calories between my treadmill routine and HIIT cycling for about 20 minutes (5-7 repetitions).
    OP, I'm not sure how these numbers are working out. 21YO male 88pounds to lose as your goal on your profile. You are a little overweight at 175 LBS for your height of 5 foot 8. You BF goal is 15% and you are walking for 30 minutes on a treadmill and running(5 mph to 5.5 mph) and feel you burn 600 calories. So, is your goal to get to goal (the BF reduction) with more efficiency or does time not matter? Is your goal to better understand caloric burn rates and the various steady state activities you can do and measure accurately for a caloric burn? Also, I am confused at the number and type of workouts you do weekly. What sort of lifting schedule(meaning amount of reps and lifts/weight) you are currently doing.

    If HIIT is something you'd like to try I'd suggest a class. I'm not sure given your current stamina it would be ideal. Trying it and working to improve during the classes makes sense but I'm not sure of what type of HIIT is available to you and the intensity. Apologies for all the questions but we have a greater chance to help you with your goals if we can have answers to some of the questions posed.
  • gdyment
    gdyment Posts: 299 Member
    edited December 2015
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    qkrzazzang wrote: »
    gdyment wrote: »
    How "intense" are your 5.5mph segments? Ever done any sort of 5 or 10k race or run with a heart rate monitor?

    I do get pretty tired after 5 minutes of run at 5.5mph. Never done 5k or 10k. I've been slowly building up my endurance in the past 2 months. I remember I ran out of breath within 3 minutes or so at 4.5 mph run by then lol. I wouldn't say a fast progress but it is there. For my first 20 minutes or so, I can do my running segments at 6 mph for 5 mins but then I bring back down to 5.5 afterwards.

    Maybe try to make a goal to get 45-60 mins solid at 5.5-6mph. You are a young male and sub 180 so unless you have a foot/knee/leg injury it should not be very difficult once you get your mind around it. Give yourself a carrot and make it a distance goal (4 miles) rather than slogging for time. You go quicker, you get to end quicker. If you need a walk break, do it, but start running again within 30-60 seconds. Lots of people use 10 min run/1 min walk - I did for a year or two as well.
  • kcjchang
    kcjchang Posts: 709 Member
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    OP - like other have stated, you are underestimating your intake, and as a consequence of your improved fitness your workout is less effective. See http://sportsscientists.com/2010/01/exercise-and-weight-loss/ for a better explanation of the adaptation that is happening.
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    farahv wrote: »
    Hiit burns more fat...but at 60 minutes your working into burning muscle. .. lift weights then 25 mins Cardio x 2 one morning one later in the day. Saves the muscle burns the fat
    No HIIT doesn't burn more fat. People who are experience in physiology know that higher intensity exercise utilizes glycogen as the main source of energy.

    There three sources of ATP, energy currency used in the conversion of chemical energy to mechanical work - ATP to ADP, for the working muscle: 1) Phosphagen system, Non-aeorbic glycolysis, and Aerobic system. The systems are not exclusive and you are using them concurrently (although it is unlikely that phosphagen system is used much during normal workouts). Intensity will dictate which is the primary system in use.

    One of the major goal of HIIT training is to improve recovery when one is utilizing the phophagen system. We have a very limited supply of ATP - enough for less than 10 seconds of maximal effort – stored directly in the working muscles. Re-phosphorylation of ADP from phosphocreatine (PC) stores provides enough for about 25 seconds total. This system produces the highest power output levels, and thus is used most heavily during any rapid acceleration, such as in sprinting and in the initial “jump” of a hard attack. HIIT trains the body to be more efficient in the Re-phosphorylation of ADP. The other aspect of HIIT is to improve fatigue resistance by developing higher tolerance to increase acidity from electrons released by conversion of ATP to ADP (craps) and build high threshold levels (non-aeorbic glycolysis) (bonk).

    For the duration, yes HIIT uses a lot of energy but one can only do 30-60 seconds of it before needing rest at a much lower intensity. If you are doing it right, one can only hit that for 5-8 reps before calling quits (because it hurts!). Depending on the regimen you are using, only four are generally recognized and they differs on how quickly one start using the phophagen system. Per workout, your are only at this top end for less about 10-15 minutes and when done correctly this is only repeatable for two or three times a week and sustainable for about 6-8 weeks in ELITE athletes. In the scheme of things, it doesn't burn as much calories as the warm up and cool down periods by themselves. So why do HIIT, it's a honing tool to win a competition not to burnt more calories. Don't let the crap marketing fool you.

    The Non-aerobic glycolysis is the primary energy pathway used for efforts lasting 45-150 seconds. Type II, or fast-twitch muscle fibers, are the locus for glycolysis, with muscle glycogen (stored glucose, about 60-90 minutes worth and you cannot eat/drink fast enough to replace it within that time limit) the sole fuel source. The aerobic system (much more efficient than glycolysis by 19 times!), also known as the Krebs Cycle, provides most of the energy for efforts of 3 minutes or longer. Aerobic metabolism occurs primarily in Type I, or slow-twitch muscle fibers (although there is a continuum within Type II fibers some of which, Type IIa, display characteristics of the former). For fuel, aerobic system relies on fat (which contains more energy than CHO – 9 kcal/gram vs. 4.1 – but is less readily metabolized) at lower intensities, progressing to carbohydrate (CHO) as intensity increases.

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