Is America Irrationally afraid of eating disorders? Struggles for petite dieting women
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BurnWithBarn2015 wrote: »I'm older (57) and also petite, 5'1.5". I wear a fitbit Charge HR that measures how many calories I burn throughout the day, and if I'm inactive, I am actually using less than 1200 calories a day. So, smaller people do need fewer calories. If I ate under 1200 on those days, I wouldn't be "starving" myself, I'd be eating at maintenance. I'm maintaining now around 1400 (with exercise). I understand a bit where you're coming from because I'm starting to get s*** from my husband and son who are overweight about portion sizes. They claim no one can survive on what I eat. I measure all my food, and for them, a bowl of cereal is to the top of the bowl, and a meal is eating everything I've made so there are no leftovers, no matter how much is actually left in the casserole dish.
But you are not weighing all your food either so those numbers are way off too. If i see a large banana a cup of this or that..than your numbers arent right.
And yes measuring makes a huge difference with weighing!
This ... Weighing your food is really important to be as accurate as possible.
Many claim to be eating 1200 and claim they can't lose but are actually eating more then they think. Those inaccuracies knock them out of their deficit but they assume they just can't lose on 1200 ( when reality they are not eating 1200 at all )0 -
I was simply correcting someone who called them selfs petite when a medical perfectionist has stated they are clinically overweight.
"Despite the fact that my doctor even said that I was clinically overweight"
At no point did I state the the us labelling system was incorrect.
Actually, she said she's now BMI 23. But of course you are trying to be rude.0 -
Thorsmom,
^^ This could easily be true, but it doesn't change the more important message:
Get adequate nutrition, and then the rate of weight loss is a personal preference. A calorie ingested today does not have any special quality over one eaten yesteryear and stored. I've met a few of the forum regulars who will scream EATING DISORDER if someone posts intake below 1200 kCal a day, and it makes me wonder if they lack the basic tools of nutrition.
As an example: a 45 Kg LBW person will maintain protein mass at ~ 0.7 grams per Kg daily, or 32 grams of protein a day. That equals 128 kCal a day of protein. I am not recommending that people subsist on 32 grams of protein tablets a day and a multi-vitamin, but I am saying that the 1200 kCal a day recommendation of MFP is a good rule of thumb but not a physiological mandate for healthy dieting -- or even close, as the example illustrates.
OK ... off my soapbox. Now I'll agree that eating disorders are common in this forum, fads are rampant and the search for an easy fix never ends so I understand why low calorie diets are frowned upon. I would prefer, however that the well meaning folks inquire about adequate nutrition rather than pass judgement based on incomplete information and forum memes.0 -
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There's a point about which I am confused. You say you are "clinically overweight" but your Dr told you that you are within a healthy weight range. Which is it?
As far as dealing with others flak, any time you make a change, you're going to get some pushback, because change, especially change they have no control over, makes people uncomfortable.
But, please make sure you stay in close touch with your Dr about this stuff. What you're doing may be fine, but you're probably riding a fine edge, so you want to be as careful as you can.0 -
So far as I know, a 'healthy weight range' means that epidemiological studies have shown that the disclosed range is not linked with decreased survival.jennifer_417 wrote: »There's a point about which I am confused. You say you are "clinically overweight" but your Dr told you that you are within a healthy weight range. Which is it?
That leaves a lot of room for impaired quality of life at both ends of the range. Then there is the problem with BMI itself, which does not distinguish fat from muscle. OP's doctor may have been saying that she was carrying a relatively large amount of fat, which in the context of relatively less muscle mass would be a rationale reason to diet (and exercise!)
My BMI is 21 and change, and I know that I will be quite happy to get rid of the remaining fat around my lower torso. Mostly for vanity reasons, but it is not aiding my posture or cycling.
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With alemurcat12 wrote: »I was simply correcting someone who called them selfs petite when a medical perfectionist has stated they are clinically overweight.
"Despite the fact that my doctor even said that I was clinically overweight"
At no point did I state the the us labelling system was incorrect.
Actually, she said she's now BMI 23. But of course you are trying to be rude.
You must be American
In the US, clothes cut for women under a certain height are called "petite", regardless of weight.
And I'm going to guess that calling a woman stumpy is rude most countries.
Also, I believe forum rules consider correcting someone's grammar as trolling. Which is also rude.0 -
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With alemurcat12 wrote: »I was simply correcting someone who called them selfs petite when a medical perfectionist has stated they are clinically overweight.
"Despite the fact that my doctor even said that I was clinically overweight"
At no point did I state the the us labelling system was incorrect.
Actually, she said she's now BMI 23. But of course you are trying to be rude.
You must be American
Because I can read?0 -
jennifer_417 wrote: »There's a point about which I am confused. You say you are "clinically overweight" but your Dr told you that you are within a healthy weight range. Which is it?
As I read it, she was slightly overweight (BMI of 25 or 26) but has lost some since then.
Anyway, I think someone even 5' tall can lose on 1200, but she's discussing it with her doctor and not (apparently) losing at unusual speed, so it doesn't really ring any warning bells except why she feels like she can't discuss it with her husband.0 -
This is a really interesting thread, OP. I'm rather petite and have noticed a few things in the past year of MFP:
(1) I thought I had to eat under 1200 calories to lose - BECAUSE I WAS LOGGING LIKE CRAP. (I'm not capitalizing that to point it out to you -I'm laughing at myself). I wasn't measuring or weighing and I thought I was doing a wonderful job with estimating. Turns out my margin of error was close to 400 calories give or take, which for a small person is a lot!
(2) I have never come up with a solid opinion on the 1200 rule. I go back and forth between "But the RDA says!" and "But I'm small!" I would really like to talk to a nutritionist who has a LOT of knowledge about the petite body and can give me better information than MFP. Either way....
(3) It's all about getting nutrients. I go to regular doctor's appointments to make sure I'm nutritionally sound and not deficient (I have other things they have to screen for anyway, but it's still not that hard to get blood work done if you're wondering) and I also listen to my body. I realized fairly quickly through a combination of low energy and some loss of lean mass that I wasn't doing things right.
Just my anecdotal thoughts on something I think about a lot as well. Good luck to you, OP!0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »With alemurcat12 wrote: »I was simply correcting someone who called them selfs petite when a medical perfectionist has stated they are clinically overweight.
"Despite the fact that my doctor even said that I was clinically overweight"
At no point did I state the the us labelling system was incorrect.
Actually, she said she's now BMI 23. But of course you are trying to be rude.
You must be American
Because I can read? How xenophobic of you.
That's one of my favorite words!
Carry on.0 -
ericGold15 wrote: »[My BMI is 21 and change, and I know that I will be quite happy to get rid of the remaining fat around my lower torso. Mostly for vanity reasons, but it is not aiding my posture or cycling.
Yeah, agree with that. I'm a BMI of 22, but I know for my goals (reducing BF, running faster, looks) it will be good to get to between BMI 20 and 21, although based on BF I don't currently wish to go lower and I'd be happy to gain more if it were muscle (running speed aside), assuming I do lose the bit around the gut I expect! Most people in my circles get that, and I don't find the ED diagnosis so commonly applied (the US is a diverse country after all -- the majority of people I interact with regularly are not overweight). Anyway, I see nothing wrong with OP's goals.0 -
Hi.
At least you are doing your best to get to your healthy lifestyle.
I think it depends on what you are trying to achieve and how/what you are eating that determinds your outcome.
Best of luck.0 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »pollypocket1021 wrote: »BurnWithBarn2015 wrote: »i post the link again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVjWPclrWVY
To know what your calorie intake is ...weigh your food in grams.
And only measure your liquids.
This is so important as a smaller person. We don't have the wiggle room for error.
Off topic, and I do weigh my food, but I was always confused by that "shocking" video. Maybe I'm some kind of special snowflake, but I never measured my food the way the video shows. A tablespoon means a tablespoon. Not a packed, heaping tablespoon over the brim. Do people really measure like that??
Yes, some really do.
Perhaps they could repeat the video with level cups and say, "that's 76 calories more per day than you think you're eating!"
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The world is made for average people.
So is the 1200 rule that is hailed by all MFP.
Do what works for you, OP.0 -
If I were sedentary at 34 years old 5'1 and 118lbs....I could only lose 0.4lbs per week on 1200 calories according to MFP. And I don't lose how MFP says I do...I usually lose a bit slower (hypothyroidism and PCOS). So may be more like 0.2lbs per week. Which is just sad.
But I'm not sedentary. I'm pretty active and I burn from 2150 to 2600 calories from my daily activity and exercise. So I'm losing 1lb per week on average eating 1450 to 1750 per day. My deficit looks huge... .but I think I burn much less than what fitbit says I burn. So realistically my deficit is more like 500 calories.
I weigh everything. I'm a chemist so I'm pretty familiar with weighing materials. In my log if it says a cup or a tbsp...I weighed it in grams but logged it as whatever units the database had because...lazy. So 2 tbsp of sour cream is actually 300. Or 1/2 cup of brown rice is 43g.
Supposedly I net only 800-1100 calories per day. Which yes, is lower than my BMR.
I feel fine. Not tired despite sleeping about 5 to 6 hours a night. Able to keep up with my workouts and daily activity. Actually I feel better now than I have in a while.
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ED is not commonly diagnosed by professionals but people who crash/extreme diet are huge targets for social speculation. A person who has no information what so ever on EDs would say that a crash dieter has an eating disorder or assume they are anorexic/bulemic because the dieter lost weight quickly, eats very little, or even took it too far. Most people who crash diet quickly gain it all back while a diagnosed ED will not allow themselves to gain. Temporary obsession vs mental disorder- I can see where people would be confused and call it an ED. Not saying that you are a crash dieter at all, op, but some people may see amount of food you eat, which is actual proper portion for your size, and think that you are trying to starve yourself A.K.A eating disorder. Resturants and even most of our own "portions" are huge these days compared to what we actually need. Again, I can see why a lot of people would be confused about portion size.
I think it's healthy to have some kind of concern about your weight and body in general if you are starting to gain fat. Not doing anything about it is mentally and physically unhealthy. If the majority of people around you are overweight than losing weight may seem eerie and very hard, almost the point of considering if it is worth the exclusion and not having anyone to talk to about it. Maybe, if you haven't yet, find some active, health conscious people your age and make some time to spend with them. It will give you a fresh perspective and meet people with common interests to talk to.0 -
This is a really interesting thread, OP. I'm rather petite and have noticed a few things in the past year of MFP:
(1) I thought I had to eat under 1200 calories to lose - BECAUSE I WAS LOGGING LIKE CRAP. (I'm not capitalizing that to point it out to you -I'm laughing at myself). I wasn't measuring or weighing and I thought I was doing a wonderful job with estimating. Turns out my margin of error was close to 400 calories give or take, which for a small person is a lot!
(2) I have never come up with a solid opinion on the 1200 rule. I go back and forth between "But the RDA says!" and "But I'm small!" I would really like to talk to a nutritionist who has a LOT of knowledge about the petite body and can give me better information than MFP. Either way....
(3) It's all about getting nutrients. I go to regular doctor's appointments to make sure I'm nutritionally sound and not deficient (I have other things they have to screen for anyway, but it's still not that hard to get blood work done if you're wondering) and I also listen to my body. I realized fairly quickly through a combination of low energy and some loss of lean mass that I wasn't doing things right.
Just my anecdotal thoughts on something I think about a lot as well. Good luck to you, OP!
I'm 5'1" and I agree with all of this.
I also lost 50 pounds in a year and I was eating at 1450 calories almost that entire time. I never ate less than 1200. (Well, I did on a couple of days when I had the stomach flu. But other than that, no.)
I don't think there's anything magic about the 1200 number or that it's a hard-fast rule. On the other hand, I don't think there's any real reason to eat below 1200 for most humans trying to lose weight at a reasonable pace, petite or otherwise. And I do think it's very, very difficult to get in all those required nutrients on fewer calories.
In short (pun intended), eating fewer calories when you're petite doesn't necessarily imply an ED. But using petiteness as an excuse to justify disordered eating behaviour isn't cool either.
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This is all very simple. Eat from a variety of real, whole, unprocessed foods, mostly plants. Get your vitamins and minerals from food and not supplements. Eat to the point of satiation. Exercise at least 5 days a week. And don't take dietary advice from overweight and unhealthy people.0
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nutmegoreo wrote: »pollypocket1021 wrote: »BurnWithBarn2015 wrote: »i post the link againhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVjWPclrWVY
To know what your calorie intake is ...weigh your food in grams.
And only measure your liquids.
This is so important as a smaller person. We don't have the wiggle room for error.
Off topic, and I do weigh my food, but I was always confused by that "shocking" video. Maybe I'm some kind of special snowflake, but I never measured my food the way the video shows. A tablespoon means a tablespoon. Not a packed, heaping tablespoon over the brim. Do people really measure like that??
Yes, some really do.
Perhaps they could repeat the video with level cups and say, "that's 76 calories more per day than you think you're eating!"
I know, right! The video makes a very valid point, but could do so without having to exaggerate like hell on those measurements.0 -
... I understand a bit where you're coming from because I'm starting to get s*** from my husband and son who are overweight about portion sizes. They claim no one can survive on what I eat. I measure all my food, and for them, a bowl of cereal is to the top of the bowl, and a meal is eating everything I've made so there are no leftovers, no matter how much is actually left in the casserole dish.
Ya, when my fiance and I eat with his brother and his family, a pizza meal is trying their hardest to finish everything ordered and only stopping when another bite is simply not possible.
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Not to get too far into the tangents here, but I wanted to say that for me, I find the best way to shut down comments from people on my portions etc to be to say "You realize I'm pretty much child-sized, right? And I'm not a growing one either so unfortunately I have to dial it back more than you taller people."
I'm not super short but I'm pretty light (and I've been maintaining for a couple years now) and even now I have to remind my husband sometimes that I can't eat like he eats because I'm 40-50 pounds lighter than he is and 8 inches shorter to boot. Pointing out that I'm the size of a lot of twelve year olds sometimes helps him put it in perspective.
FWIW, I maintain around 1500/day if I'm not working out (office job) and can go up to 2000/day or so if I've managed a 10K run (less on strength training days, a little more on half-marathon distance days). It's reasonable and pretty easy to live with but it does not allow for huge restaurant meals and entire pints of ice cream or pizza binges like my husband can do easily, at least not often. And when I was losing I was often in the 1000-1200 range (meticulously tracked so I had an accurate calorie count and a grasp on my macro and micronutrients) to lose a pound per week or so.0 -
Not to get too far into the tangents here, but I wanted to say that for me, I find the best way to shut down comments from people on my portions etc to be to say "You realize I'm pretty much child-sized, right? And I'm not a growing one either so unfortunately I have to dial it back more than you taller people."
I'm not super short but I'm pretty light (and I've been maintaining for a couple years now) and even now I have to remind my husband sometimes that I can't eat like he eats because I'm 40-50 pounds lighter than he is and 8 inches shorter to boot. Pointing out that I'm the size of a lot of twelve year olds sometimes helps him put it in perspective.
I may use that "I'm child-sized" thing myself sometime - that's a great way to put things in perspective.
Most of the people that I'm around haven't given me a hard time, but it's nice to have an idea in my mind for anyone that would.
~Lyssa
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That drives me nuts. I'm 5 ft 2 with a naturally petit frame so any extra weight is extremely uncomfortable for me. I recently lost 50 lbs of "pregnancy" weight (over eating too obv), with a few more to go. And I can't even explain how awful I felt while heavy even after I had the baby.
I gain mostly in my upper arms, belly and face. It looked unnatural. But because my starting weight didn't seem that high to taller, fuller framed women, they think my weightloss efforts somehow don't mean as much as theirs. Only my husband has been supportive considering he could see how uncomfortable I was.
I've learned that I don't need anyone else's approval to validate me. I don't tell people about my progress and my goals unless I think they will support me. If you'd like support, feel free to add me. Although I can't give advice on how many calories to eat. The MFP calculator advice worked well for me. I wish you the best of luck and hopefully to find a safe and health solution you can feel good about.
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Outside of MFP, I find that most people in my life don't understand calorie counting so don't know if 1200 is a little or a lot. What freaks them out much more is that I weigh my food. My boyfriend is fine with it, understands and celebrates my results, but family and friends are horrified that I am "obsessed enough to weigh everything I eat and drink". That is what freaks them out the most and that is why, at least in my case, eating disorders are hinted at.
It doesnt help that I have a checkered history in that regard, so my reassurances that I have the best relationship I have ever had with food, really, promise, fall on deaf ears.
Now that I am pushing to get rid of the last ten pounds, people are particularly offended that I am "still weighing" as if I there is a time limit (or a weight limit) on how long I am allowed to do that.
It is exhausting to fight with people over it so I just do my weighing and measuring at home or when others are not in the room these days.0
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