Hedonic Hunger

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robingmurphy
robingmurphy Posts: 349 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
This is a new article at Scientific American I thought was interesting. How much does "hedonic hunger" drive your overeating? It's a big factor for me, and most of the time I just have to keep the high sugar/high fat foods out of my house to avoid it.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-sugar-and-fat-trick-the-brain-into-wanting-more-food/
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  • VorJoshigan
    VorJoshigan Posts: 1,106 Member
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    I'd say it's about 60% of my overeating. Maybe more. Thanks for the link.
  • juggernaut1974
    juggernaut1974 Posts: 6,212 Member
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    Rodent studies.

    When and if the results are replicated in human studies, I'll give it more credence.

    I don't disagree with the underlying premise - that overconsumption of hyper-palatable foods (which tend to be concoctions of sugars and fats) are a major cause of the obesity crisis.

    I disagree that we are powerless to change that behavior. Myself, and many others who are and continue to be successful with moderating (or in others' cases, eliminating) such foods indicates that the whole 'our brains get rewired such that we can't help ourselves' hypothesis seems to be merely an excuse.
  • MommyL2015
    MommyL2015 Posts: 1,411 Member
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    There are days when I really want to mow down on some chocolate. Like, a giant bag of M&Ms or something. Because I do crave them and want them, but I make the conscious decision that I like a more energetic body and my health better than those M&Ms. So I will eat a small amount and I will make room for them in my day.

    We are not powerless. As a matter of fact, how much food we eat is one of the few things in life we have absolute control and power over.
  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
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    It's an interesting name for this phenomenon. I guess I never thought about it being recognized as a different type of hunger. It's certainly a big factor for me as well.

    I try to keep the most tempting things out of sight to keep them out of mind. I've said it before but homemade chocolate cake is a huge "I will eat all of that" food for me. I had a conversation with my husband last night about what dessert we'll have on Christmas. Normally if I make a cake we'll each have a piece at home, I'll have one more piece, and then I'll take it to work to share. My work is going to be closed until after New Year's though so I was trying to figure out how I'd handle it. I'm currently flip flopping between making a half-sized cake or just not making cake and calling the sugar cookies we're making dessert.

    I do my best to moderate but desire to go overboard with many foods isn't something that I see going away. My inner fat girl is alive and kicking.
  • brandid34
    brandid34 Posts: 154 Member
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    My biggest overeating is socially related. As soon as I get around people I just can't say no to food and most of the time my social activities involve food. If I'm alone I often skips meals.
  • beamer0821
    beamer0821 Posts: 488 Member
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    thanks for sharing this. i didnt know they had a name for it
  • PaulaWallaDingDong
    PaulaWallaDingDong Posts: 4,641 Member
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    juggernaut1974 wrote: »
    Rodent studies.

    When and if the results are replicated in human studies, I'll give it more credence.

    I don't disagree with the underlying premise - that overconsumption of hyper-palatable foods (which tend to be concoctions of sugars and fats) are a major cause of the obesity crisis.

    I disagree that we are powerless to change that behavior. Myself, and many others who are and continue to be successful with moderating (or in others' cases, eliminating) such foods indicates that the whole 'our brains get rewired such that we can't help ourselves' hypothesis seems to be merely an excuse.

    Yes. I get sick of having folks as friends on mfp (they always seem to find their way in) who will look at my diary or a status about delicious food and tell me that I'm a victim of corporations' use of fat, msg and hfcs to enslave humanity. They don't stay on my list for long.
  • daniwilford
    daniwilford Posts: 1,030 Member
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    There are some real pulls for me to eat highly palatable foods. The all things in moderation motto fails for me in the face of pastry, cheese cake and some salty snack foods. I don't know all of the mechanics behind it, so this is an interesting read. I am not abdicating my responsibility, I am just saying there are different levels of attraction. Some foods I can do out of sight and smell, out of mind but some foods have to be out of house to be out of mind. Sometimes just reading about foods in a post can be a pull. To say it is a substance addiction is too strong, but to call it mind over matter, leaves my reality discounted.
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
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    juggernaut1974 wrote: »
    Rodent studies.

    When and if the results are replicated in human studies, I'll give it more credence.

    I don't disagree with the underlying premise - that overconsumption of hyper-palatable foods (which tend to be concoctions of sugars and fats) are a major cause of the obesity crisis.

    I disagree that we are powerless to change that behavior. Myself, and many others who are and continue to be successful with moderating (or in others' cases, eliminating) such foods indicates that the whole 'our brains get rewired such that we can't help ourselves' hypothesis seems to be merely an excuse.

    I used to overeat. And it would be in hyper palatable foods because I would tell myself I deserved it, or I wanted it, or I just didn't think about it

    I changed my mind and started to eat mindfully, had to, I was logging every calorie.

    Over time that became my modus operandi...still is...I consciously choose food, what food, whether it will fit in my goals which include will it fill me up, do I really want it, will it fit in my calories

    And I no longer need excuses ...well most of the time
  • Francl27
    Francl27 Posts: 26,371 Member
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    That kind of stuff is dubious to me because I still eat the same stuff I used to, but I can do moderation just fine as long as my hormones are in check, so I'm wondering what's the difference between then and now, apart from the fact that now I try not to gorge myself anymore? The food hasn't changed so I'd assume that the effect on my brain hasn't changed either...

    Also love the time jump in the publishing date.
  • ryry_
    ryry_ Posts: 4,966 Member
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    Speaking experientally, super hyperpalatable foods and I'll throw in alcohol are the times where my long term wants tend to get overridden by the short term pleasure of JSF.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,996 Member
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    robingmurphy wrote: »
    This is a new article at Scientific American I thought was interesting. How much does "hedonic hunger" drive your overeating? It's a big factor for me, and most of the time I just have to keep the high sugar/high fat foods out of my house to avoid it.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-sugar-and-fat-trick-the-brain-into-wanting-more-food/

    Interesting article, thanks.

    Hedonic hunger is much less of an issue for me when I am getting a supply of happy hormones via regular exercise.

    I also keep trigger foods out of the house.
  • PeachyCarol
    PeachyCarol Posts: 8,029 Member
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    juggernaut1974 wrote: »
    Rodent studies.

    When and if the results are replicated in human studies, I'll give it more credence.

    I don't disagree with the underlying premise - that overconsumption of hyper-palatable foods (which tend to be concoctions of sugars and fats) are a major cause of the obesity crisis.

    I disagree that we are powerless to change that behavior. Myself, and many others who are and continue to be successful with moderating (or in others' cases, eliminating) such foods indicates that the whole 'our brains get rewired such that we can't help ourselves' hypothesis seems to be merely an excuse.

    Agree.

    While I agree with the premise of hedonic hunger, I disagree with the idea that we can never control it and that it's the food.

    I have eaten sweets just for pleasure and I have eaten savory foods like chicken legs in large quantities for the same reason.

    When it comes to hormonal responses in humans and how much sway they supposedly hold, I always think back to this one study I read on satiety. In the study, the participants were told that they were drinking a beverage that would form a gel in their stomachs once it was there. It was in liquid form when it was ingested.

    Well, it didn't do any such thing.

    Now here's where it gets interesting. The study did have a control group... one group was told the liquid would gel, the other wasn't. In the group that was told it would gel, the participants not only reported feeling full from ingesting the liquid, they had the hormonal responses indicating satiety. Yup. They believed they were going to get full from the liquid, and they released the hormone to engender that response.

    The control group? They didn't think they'd get full just from drinking liquid and did not have a similar response.

    Bottom line? Humans are more complicated than rats with a mind-body connection.
  • HippySkoppy
    HippySkoppy Posts: 725 Member
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    Thank you for the article it was interesting to read and understand more about the concept of hedonic hunger it isn't something with which I am familiar.

    I do have one question though and am hoping those with a more understanding than me can help.

    I got the impression that the researchers were saying that the response to this impulse diminishes after bariatric surgery.....the brain finally gets the changed messages of satiety from the gut.

    So if one was to implement dietary changes and stop triggering the extra release of the reward pathways that lead to over-eating and obesity would that not mean that the person could successfully "re-wire" themselves without surgery......and we all can, given time and right circumstance overcome this hedonic over-eating?

    I see where others have posted their successful ways of overcoming their particular triggers ie. limited quantities, not having said trigger in the home etc....So does that mean that now those brains have 're-wired' through hard-work and the willpower which the article said was not going to hold people back from these behaviours?

    I felt too that the article was saying that the ONLY successful solutions for this issue are either targeted drug therapy or surgery....but I may have got that wrong.

  • Francl27
    Francl27 Posts: 26,371 Member
    edited December 2015
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    HippySkoppy wrote: »
    Thank you for the article it was interesting to read and understand more about the concept of hedonic hunger it isn't something with which I am familiar.

    I do have one question though and am hoping those with a more understanding than me can help.

    I got the impression that the researchers were saying that the response to this impulse diminishes after bariatric surgery.....the brain finally gets the changed messages of satiety from the gut.

    So if one was to implement dietary changes and stop triggering the extra release of the reward pathways that lead to over-eating and obesity would that not mean that the person could successfully "re-wire" themselves without surgery......and we all can, given time and right circumstance overcome this hedonic over-eating?

    I see where others have posted their successful ways of overcoming their particular triggers ie. limited quantities, not having said trigger in the home etc....So does that mean that now those brains have 're-wired' through hard-work and the willpower which the article said was not going to hold people back from these behaviours?

    I felt too that the article was saying that the ONLY successful solutions for this issue are either targeted drug therapy or surgery....but I may have got that wrong.

    That's not a way of overcoming it, it's a way of avoiding the issue. I mean, obviously, it works as long as you're at home, but that's pretty much it. For me total avoidance is the best way to guarantee that I will binge on it if I have the opportunity to eat what I've been avoiding (let's be fair though, I still 'avoid' a lot of things because they just don't fit easily in my days, in the sense that I might still eat them, but not as much as I'd like, so at things like buffets, for example, it often ends up badly).

    But whether there's really a scientific explanation for it or not, the issue isn't really going anywhere, IMO. I mean, I see a lot of people tell others that they'll keep binging or overeating until they figure out WHY they do it, but when the answer is just 'because it's delicious', it's not that easy, lol. I kinda agree with the poster up there that said that sometimes, long term weight loss plans be damned, those cookies/donuts are totally worth it right now.

    And yeah, it doesn't happen to everyone either, I know people who are totally satisfied with half a donut and it boggles my mind.
  • kommodevaran
    kommodevaran Posts: 17,890 Member
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    For me, there was nothing new in the article, not even the term "hedonic hunger", but I like that overeating is taken more seriously - not all overeating is because of physiological hunger or even emotional issues - and maybe in the future will be regarded as something else than "gluttony" and "greed"; food that tastes just too good is a real problem for many people. What would be interesting, is to investigate why some people DON'T feel the same attraction to hyperpalatable foods and maintain their weight effortlessly.

    What bothers me, is regarding "reengineering the food environment" as "avoidance of the problem". If you don't have any problems with having a taste now and then, you don't have a problem with that. Some of us can handle temptation better when it's not around 24/7, and it doesn't have to be, either. My house, my rules! As someone who has never had problems with overconsumption of alcohol, tobacco etc, I can still emphatize with people who need to avoid those kinds of temptations, and I'd appreciate the same in return ;)

    (What's with the postdating? It's not next year yet. It says "By Ferris Jabr on January 1, 2016". :| )
  • Francl27
    Francl27 Posts: 26,371 Member
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    kommodevaran wrote: »
    For me, there was nothing new in the article, not even the term "hedonic hunger", but I like that overeating is taken more seriously - not all overeating is because of physiological hunger or even emotional issues - and maybe in the future will be regarded as something else than "gluttony" and "greed"; food that tastes just too good is a real problem for many people. What would be interesting, is to investigate why some people DON'T feel the same attraction to hyperpalatable foods and maintain their weight effortlessly.

    What bothers me, is regarding "reengineering the food environment" as "avoidance of the problem". If you don't have any problems with having a taste now and then, you don't have a problem with that. Some of us can handle temptation better when it's not around 24/7, and it doesn't have to be, either. My house, my rules! As someone who has never had problems with overconsumption of alcohol, tobacco etc, I can still emphatize with people who need to avoid those kinds of temptations, and I'd appreciate the same in return ;)

    (What's with the postdating? It's not next year yet. It says "By Ferris Jabr on January 1, 2016". :| )

    Yeah I was surprised nobody else noticed that, lol.
  • daniwilford
    daniwilford Posts: 1,030 Member
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    I assumed that was the magazine issue date and not the article date.
  • Sabine_Stroehm
    Sabine_Stroehm Posts: 19,263 Member
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    That was a fun read. Hyper-palatable foods can be challenging to eat with moderation or not eat, depending on one's goals. Thanks for posting it. Not sure I like "hedonic" as a term, but a fun read nonetheless.

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