We Can Blame Sugar All We Like – But We're Only Creating More Problems For Ourselves

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Replies

  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    edited January 2016
    I only watched the first few minutes of the video but it basically states added sugar in Ireland as tripled as obesity went up. That's added sugar and added calories. It doesn't look like it went after sugars found in whole foods like fruits, just added sugars where sugar would not be naturally occurring. It doesn't seem like sugar fear mongering to me.... More of a statement of facts: sugar consumption has increased along with obesity. For most people there is a link.

    Haven't seen any announcements in the video that all sugar is bad. Does that happen later in the film? If not the article seems like an overreaction.

    I'll have to watch the rest later.
  • Hornsby
    Hornsby Posts: 10,322 Member
    edited January 2016
    Most people could stand to cut out some refined sugars, there is no doubting that, but only because it does not contribute all that many nutrients to a diet and there are a loooooooot of people out there that who do not exercise and eat too much. What are the best things to reduce most likely? Probably the high sugar/high fat treats. The issue arises when someone says this causes obesity. No, it doesn't. Overeating your calories does. Refined sugar can be eaten and be helpful to a person's diet whether it be for quick energy or just to keep them sane and on track cause they like it. The fact still remains that it can be 100% included in a healthy diet with 0 health implications IF all other nutritional needs are on point and most agree with that I think on both sides. It really comes down to whether you want to blame the person for not giving themselves a healthy diet or the sugar/snack industry for selling a product people want. All the arguing in between is semantics.

    I am officially done with sugar discussions on MFP. No more reading or replying for me.








    ...unless I change my mind and fall off the wagon cause it lights up the same receptors MFP forums does, therefore, it must be addictive.
  • juggernaut1974
    juggernaut1974 Posts: 6,212 Member
    Hornsby wrote: »
    Most people could stand to cut out some refined sugars, there is no doubting that, but only because it does not contribute all that many nutrients to a diet and there are a loooooooot of people out there that who do not exercise and eat too much. What are the best things to reduce most likely? Probably the high sugar/high fat treats. The issue arises when someone says this causes obesity. No, it doesn't. Overeating your calories does. Refined sugar can be eaten and be helpful to a person's diet whether it be for quick energy or just to keep them sane and on track cause they like it. The fact still remains that it can be 100% included in a healthy diet with 0 health implications IF all other nutritional needs are on point and most agree with that I think on both sides. It really comes down to whether you want to blame the person for not giving themselves a healthy diet or the sugar industry for selling a product people want. All the arguing in between is semantics.

    I am officially done with sugar discussions on MFP. No more reading or replying for me.








    ...unless I change my mind and fall off the wagon cause it lights up the same receptors MFP forums does, therefore, it must be addictive.

    You know you're addicted to sugar threads :)
  • rankinsect
    rankinsect Posts: 2,238 Member
    bisky wrote: »
    From http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/statistics/Overall Numbers, Diabetes and Prediabetes

    Prevalence: In 2012, 29.1 million Americans, or 9.3% of the population, had diabetes.
    Approximately 1.25 million American children and adults have type 1 diabetes.
    Undiagnosed: Of the 29.1 million, 21.0 million were diagnosed, and 8.1 million were undiagnosed.
    Prevalence in Seniors: The percentage of Americans age 65 and older remains high, at 25.9%, or 11.8 million seniors (diagnosed and undiagnosed).
    New Cases: 1.4 million Americans are diagnosed with diabetes every year.
    Prediabetes: In 2012, 86 million Americans age 20 and older had prediabetes; this is up from 79 million in 2010.
    Deaths: Diabetes remains the 7th leading cause of death in the United States in 2010, with 69,071 death certificates listing it as the underlying cause of death, and a total of 234,051 death certificates listing diabetes as an underlying or contributing cause of death.
    - See more at: http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/statistics/#sthash.QaOEy1zE.dpuf

    Rates of type 2 diabetes have increased markedly since 1960 in parallel with obesity. As of 2010 there were approximately 285 million people diagnosed with the disease compared to around 30 million in 1985.[4][5] Type 2 diabetes is typically a chronic disease associated with a ten-year-shorter life expectancy.[4] Long-term complications from high blood sugar can include heart disease, strokes, diabetic retinopathy where eyesight is affected, kidney failure which may require dialysis, and poor blood flow in the limbs leading to amputations. The acute complication of ketoacidosis, a feature of type 1 diabetes, is uncommon,[6] however hyperosmolar hyperglycemic state may occur."

    Dr. Lustig is a crack pot?? Really? Not an educated pediatric endocrinologist from University of California seeing the rise of DMll in children and trying to warn public of what he is seeing happening in clinical practice?

    T2 Diabetes causes high blood sugar - high sugar intake doesn't cause T2D.

    Obesity seems to be the main causal factor here, but you can be obese from overeating anything - it doesn't matter if those calories are coming from fat, sugar, or anything else.
  • CollieFit
    CollieFit Posts: 1,683 Member
    Not wanting to enter into the sugar debate... but an interesting observation in the link was about other changes which have contributed to the rise in obesity, such as the increased size of crockery. I also noticed this when we bought new plates recently. In the UK certainly dinner plates seem to be getting bigger and bigger. You can now buy pasta dishes that are the size that serving bowls used to be. When dishing up people just kind of "fill the plate".
  • TRC64
    TRC64 Posts: 22 Member
    You can track the increase in obesity and increased sugar consumption from the 1960s, when women entered the workforce en masse. People very rarely cook anymore ... they basically just "prepare" their food or eat it ready-made. They add water to instant oatmeal or potatoes, heat up a frozen Stouffer's lasagna or pizza, maybe add meat to a frozen package of stir fry vegetables with sauce (or buy the package that already includes meat), make a Hamburger Helper meal, etc. All of these foods tend to be very high in sugar and calories (plus a host of other unhealthy additives).

    Let's take an oatmeal breakfast for the average adult:

    1 cup Quaker oats, plain cooked
    1 tsp brown sugar
    1/4 cup plain whole milk

    197 calories, 8 grams of sugar

    Now let's take the Quaker Instant Oatmeal, Maple and Brown sugar

    2 packets, mixed with water
    320 calories, 24 grams of sugar

    Both meals provide about the same amount of volume, so I wouldn't say that the person eating the instant oatmeal is overeating, necessarily (two packets of instant oatmeal was a standard serving for me, a 5'6" female at 138 pounds), but in the instant oatmeal the sugar is tripled and the calories increased by a third.

    Everyone's busy, no one has time, so they opt for the quicker options, swing through to get fast food on the way home. Even those who think they're eating healthy can often be tripped up. Who would think that a Subway 6" Sweet Onion teriyaki chicken sandwich would have 17 grams of sugar, more than a Krispy Kreme doughnut which is 10 grams? A Luna bar's a great snack, right? And it's gluten free? Bonus! But it's also 190 calories and 10 grams of sugar per bar.

    Yoplait original red raspberry yogurt has 26 grams of sugar and 170 calories. Compare this to 1/2 cup plain greek yogurt with a teaspoon of honey and 1/2 cup fresh raspberries at 13 grams of sugar and 117 calories.

    So yes, there is a real problem with sugar ... and it's not just those guzzling soda and eating ice cream who are consuming too much.
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    TRC64 wrote: »
    You can track the increase in obesity and increased sugar consumption from the 1960s, when women entered the workforce en masse. People very rarely cook anymore ... they basically just "prepare" their food or eat it ready-made. They add water to instant oatmeal or potatoes, heat up a frozen Stouffer's lasagna or pizza, maybe add meat to a frozen package of stir fry vegetables with sauce (or buy the package that already includes meat), make a Hamburger Helper meal, etc. All of these foods tend to be very high in sugar and calories (plus a host of other unhealthy additives).

    Let's take an oatmeal breakfast for the average adult:

    1 cup Quaker oats, plain cooked
    1 tsp brown sugar
    1/4 cup plain whole milk

    197 calories, 8 grams of sugar

    Now let's take the Quaker Instant Oatmeal, Maple and Brown sugar

    2 packets, mixed with water
    320 calories, 24 grams of sugar

    Both meals provide about the same amount of volume, so I wouldn't say that the person eating the instant oatmeal is overeating, necessarily (two packets of instant oatmeal was a standard serving for me, a 5'6" female at 138 pounds), but in the instant oatmeal the sugar is tripled and the calories increased by a third.

    Everyone's busy, no one has time, so they opt for the quicker options, swing through to get fast food on the way home. Even those who think they're eating healthy can often be tripped up. Who would think that a Subway 6" Sweet Onion teriyaki chicken sandwich would have 17 grams of sugar, more than a Krispy Kreme doughnut which is 10 grams? A Luna bar's a great snack, right? And it's gluten free? Bonus! But it's also 190 calories and 10 grams of sugar per bar.

    Yoplait original red raspberry yogurt has 26 grams of sugar and 170 calories. Compare this to 1/2 cup plain greek yogurt with a teaspoon of honey and 1/2 cup fresh raspberries at 13 grams of sugar and 117 calories.

    So yes, there is a real problem with sugar ... and it's not just those guzzling soda and eating ice cream who are consuming too much.

    16 grams of sugar is 64 calories, the difference in the two meals is 123 calories.
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,455 Member
    TRC64 wrote: »
    You can track the increase in obesity and increased sugar consumption from the 1960s, when women entered the workforce en masse. People very rarely cook anymore ... they basically just "prepare" their food or eat it ready-made. They add water to instant oatmeal or potatoes, heat up a frozen Stouffer's lasagna or pizza, maybe add meat to a frozen package of stir fry vegetables with sauce (or buy the package that already includes meat), make a Hamburger Helper meal, etc. All of these foods tend to be very high in sugar and calories (plus a host of other unhealthy additives).

    Let's take an oatmeal breakfast for the average adult:

    1 cup Quaker oats, plain cooked
    1 tsp brown sugar
    1/4 cup plain whole milk

    197 calories, 8 grams of sugar

    Now let's take the Quaker Instant Oatmeal, Maple and Brown sugar

    2 packets, mixed with water
    320 calories, 24 grams of sugar

    Both meals provide about the same amount of volume, so I wouldn't say that the person eating the instant oatmeal is overeating, necessarily (two packets of instant oatmeal was a standard serving for me, a 5'6" female at 138 pounds), but in the instant oatmeal the sugar is tripled and the calories increased by a third.

    Everyone's busy, no one has time, so they opt for the quicker options, swing through to get fast food on the way home. Even those who think they're eating healthy can often be tripped up. Who would think that a Subway 6" Sweet Onion teriyaki chicken sandwich would have 17 grams of sugar, more than a Krispy Kreme doughnut which is 10 grams? A Luna bar's a great snack, right? And it's gluten free? Bonus! But it's also 190 calories and 10 grams of sugar per bar.

    Yoplait original red raspberry yogurt has 26 grams of sugar and 170 calories. Compare this to 1/2 cup plain greek yogurt with a teaspoon of honey and 1/2 cup fresh raspberries at 13 grams of sugar and 117 calories.

    So yes, there is a real problem with sugar ... and it's not just those guzzling soda and eating ice cream who are consuming too much.

    I've asked this in many other threads and haven't gotten a great answer yet. If I have no medical reason to restrict sugars, and am monitoring my calorie intake, why do I need to be wary of those extra grams of sugar in the instant oatmeal, the subway sandwich, the Luna bar, etc...

  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    TRC64 wrote: »
    You can track the increase in obesity and increased sugar consumption from the 1960s, when women entered the workforce en masse. People very rarely cook anymore ... they basically just "prepare" their food or eat it ready-made. They add water to instant oatmeal or potatoes, heat up a frozen Stouffer's lasagna or pizza, maybe add meat to a frozen package of stir fry vegetables with sauce (or buy the package that already includes meat), make a Hamburger Helper meal, etc. All of these foods tend to be very high in sugar and calories (plus a host of other unhealthy additives).

    Let's take an oatmeal breakfast for the average adult:

    1 cup Quaker oats, plain cooked
    1 tsp brown sugar
    1/4 cup plain whole milk

    197 calories, 8 grams of sugar

    Now let's take the Quaker Instant Oatmeal, Maple and Brown sugar

    2 packets, mixed with water
    320 calories, 24 grams of sugar

    Both meals provide about the same amount of volume, so I wouldn't say that the person eating the instant oatmeal is overeating, necessarily (two packets of instant oatmeal was a standard serving for me, a 5'6" female at 138 pounds), but in the instant oatmeal the sugar is tripled and the calories increased by a third.

    Everyone's busy, no one has time, so they opt for the quicker options, swing through to get fast food on the way home. Even those who think they're eating healthy can often be tripped up. Who would think that a Subway 6" Sweet Onion teriyaki chicken sandwich would have 17 grams of sugar, more than a Krispy Kreme doughnut which is 10 grams? A Luna bar's a great snack, right? And it's gluten free? Bonus! But it's also 190 calories and 10 grams of sugar per bar.

    Yoplait original red raspberry yogurt has 26 grams of sugar and 170 calories. Compare this to 1/2 cup plain greek yogurt with a teaspoon of honey and 1/2 cup fresh raspberries at 13 grams of sugar and 117 calories.

    So yes, there is a real problem with sugar ... and it's not just those guzzling soda and eating ice cream who are consuming too much.

    16 grams of sugar is 64 calories, the difference in the two meals is 123 calories.

    123 kcals X 200 days of the year (assuming some breakfast variety) = 24600 extra kcals

    24600kcals / 3500kcal/lb = an extra 7 lbs per year (assuming CO doesn't change)
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited January 2016
    TRC64 wrote: »
    You can track the increase in obesity and increased sugar consumption from the 1960s, when women entered the workforce en masse. People very rarely cook anymore ... they basically just "prepare" their food or eat it ready-made.

    I think this is overstated. Most of the parents I know cook, and cooking can be fast and convenient when you know how.

    I agree that a higher percentage of the population working outside the home, a ready-made market for convenience foods, and--especially--many people not learning how to cook plays a role. I think this is much harder if cooking is intimidating to you (but also if you don't know anything about nutrition or how to make sensible choices and read a label, which is why I resist the idea that it all comes down to sugar -- that's not furthering the goal of understanding nutrition or what a balanced diet needs, which is more nuanced and requires more than NO SUGAR, SUGAR BAD).
    They add water to instant oatmeal or potatoes, heat up a frozen Stouffer's lasagna or pizza, maybe add meat to a frozen package of stir fry vegetables with sauce (or buy the package that already includes meat), make a Hamburger Helper meal, etc. All of these foods tend to be very high in sugar and calories (plus a host of other unhealthy additives).

    Some people may do this, some may not. You can eat quite healthfully even without cooking. When I first started preparing meals for myself (and did not cook much yet), I might do something silly like eat a bagel with cream cheese for breakfast (trivial amount of sugar, but not a sensible breakfast for me -- I do better with more protein in the morning and don't like bagels enough to waste that many calories on them routinely), but I'd also grab a plain yogurt with berries. Many others I know will eat a non sweetened cereal (I hate cold cereal) with fruit. It also doesn't take any cooking skills to prepare many non sweetened oatmeals. You can get an instant steel cut oats that are just oats. So it's not not wanting to cook that requires one to eat foods with lots of sugar. It's that people may like those foods and choose to eat them. (The same is true with prepackaged dinner and lunch options, etc. -- I like to cook now and don't care for these things, but they aren't all full of sugar or high cal, etc.)

    Also, you posit that 320 calories at breakfast is something to be concerned about. I intentionally eat 350 calories for breakfast every day (not much sugar, and no added sugar -- sometimes fruit, sometimes dairy, always veg). I like eating that many calories for breakfast. What would be a problem is if I ate too much over the whole day, because I didn't pay attention to how much I ate (by paying attention I don't mean one must count calories, although doing it for a while can be helpful for many who tend to eat too much).
    Yoplait original red raspberry yogurt has 26 grams of sugar and 170 calories. Compare this to 1/2 cup plain greek yogurt with a teaspoon of honey and 1/2 cup fresh raspberries at 13 grams of sugar and 117 calories.

    So? Both are convenience foods. You can choose either. Some people choose what they prefer.

    Fact is that "added sugar" in the American diet does not come largely from yogurt or so-called hidden sugar. I posted stats on this yesterday: about 49% are from sweetened beverages (mostly soda, also energy drinks, sports drinks, fruit drinks, and sugar added to coffee and tea). The next largest category is grain-based desserts (cookies, baked goods). Then candy, and (if memory serves) dairy-based desserts. We were already down to small percentages, and haven't even gotten to sugary cereals yet, which I am willing to bet are ahead of yogurt, let alone the dreaded ketchup.
  • stealthq
    stealthq Posts: 4,298 Member
    edited January 2016
    TRC64 wrote: »
    You can track the increase in obesity and increased sugar consumption from the 1960s, when women entered the workforce en masse. People very rarely cook anymore ... they basically just "prepare" their food or eat it ready-made. They add water to instant oatmeal or potatoes, heat up a frozen Stouffer's lasagna or pizza, maybe add meat to a frozen package of stir fry vegetables with sauce (or buy the package that already includes meat), make a Hamburger Helper meal, etc. All of these foods tend to be very high in sugar and calories (plus a host of other unhealthy additives).

    Let's take an oatmeal breakfast for the average adult:

    1 cup Quaker oats, plain cooked
    1 tsp brown sugar
    1/4 cup plain whole milk

    197 calories, 8 grams of sugar

    Now let's take the Quaker Instant Oatmeal, Maple and Brown sugar

    2 packets, mixed with water
    320 calories, 24 grams of sugar

    Both meals provide about the same amount of volume, so I wouldn't say that the person eating the instant oatmeal is overeating, necessarily (two packets of instant oatmeal was a standard serving for me, a 5'6" female at 138 pounds), but in the instant oatmeal the sugar is tripled and the calories increased by a third.

    Everyone's busy, no one has time, so they opt for the quicker options, swing through to get fast food on the way home. Even those who think they're eating healthy can often be tripped up. Who would think that a Subway 6" Sweet Onion teriyaki chicken sandwich would have 17 grams of sugar, more than a Krispy Kreme doughnut which is 10 grams? A Luna bar's a great snack, right? And it's gluten free? Bonus! But it's also 190 calories and 10 grams of sugar per bar.

    Yoplait original red raspberry yogurt has 26 grams of sugar and 170 calories. Compare this to 1/2 cup plain greek yogurt with a teaspoon of honey and 1/2 cup fresh raspberries at 13 grams of sugar and 117 calories.

    So yes, there is a real problem with sugar ... and it's not just those guzzling soda and eating ice cream who are consuming too much.

    You can also track it back to when obtaining food became drastically more convenient to obtain and prepare, as well as cheaper. It correlates to a range of other events that happened around the same time - the beginning of the drift away from physical labor-intensive jobs to more desk jobs, etc.

    I am curious that you are comparing Quaker Instant oatmeal to plain Quaker oats with so little sugar added. Or Yoplait to Greek yogurt with only a teaspoon of honey. The taste difference would be tremendous. I can't imagine someone who enjoyed the lower sugar version liking the higher, or vice versa. The choice between them wouldn't be convenience. You can buy plain quick-cooking oats, and obviously Greek yogurt is just as easy to pick up as Yoplait (and you can get versions with honey on the side ready to mix in).

    I also don't see why sugar is the big problem with fast food as opposed to fat (actually, just excess calories in general). Plenty of fast food items are much higher in fat and/or sugar than I would anticipate. Conversely, it's often lower in protein. And none of it would be a problem if most people would bother to look at the nutritional information and fit what they eat into their diet.
  • Sabine_Stroehm
    Sabine_Stroehm Posts: 19,263 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Decreasing added sugar (and increasing protein and fiber) certainly makes it easier for me to stay in a calorie deficit.

    Ditto. I'll keep limiting it. I know I'll never be lacking.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited January 2016
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Decreasing added sugar (and increasing protein and fiber) certainly makes it easier for me to stay in a calorie deficit.

    Ditto. I'll keep limiting it. I know I'll never be lacking.

    To me this is simply what Hornby said, and of course not overeating added sugar (and looking at how much you are eating if you want to cut calories or improve your diet) is an extremely sensible thing to do. That's different from the claim that eating too much sugar is why people are fat. Sugar wasn't really a major part of how I overate most of the time I was overeating.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
    great article and I agree ....
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    TRC64 wrote: »
    You can track the increase in obesity and increased sugar consumption from the 1960s, when women entered the workforce en masse. People very rarely cook anymore ... they basically just "prepare" their food or eat it ready-made. They add water to instant oatmeal or potatoes, heat up a frozen Stouffer's lasagna or pizza, maybe add meat to a frozen package of stir fry vegetables with sauce (or buy the package that already includes meat), make a Hamburger Helper meal, etc. All of these foods tend to be very high in sugar and calories (plus a host of other unhealthy additives).

    Let's take an oatmeal breakfast for the average adult:

    1 cup Quaker oats, plain cooked
    1 tsp brown sugar
    1/4 cup plain whole milk

    197 calories, 8 grams of sugar

    Now let's take the Quaker Instant Oatmeal, Maple and Brown sugar

    2 packets, mixed with water
    320 calories, 24 grams of sugar

    Both meals provide about the same amount of volume, so I wouldn't say that the person eating the instant oatmeal is overeating, necessarily (two packets of instant oatmeal was a standard serving for me, a 5'6" female at 138 pounds), but in the instant oatmeal the sugar is tripled and the calories increased by a third.

    Everyone's busy, no one has time, so they opt for the quicker options, swing through to get fast food on the way home. Even those who think they're eating healthy can often be tripped up. Who would think that a Subway 6" Sweet Onion teriyaki chicken sandwich would have 17 grams of sugar, more than a Krispy Kreme doughnut which is 10 grams? A Luna bar's a great snack, right? And it's gluten free? Bonus! But it's also 190 calories and 10 grams of sugar per bar.

    Yoplait original red raspberry yogurt has 26 grams of sugar and 170 calories. Compare this to 1/2 cup plain greek yogurt with a teaspoon of honey and 1/2 cup fresh raspberries at 13 grams of sugar and 117 calories.

    So yes, there is a real problem with sugar ... and it's not just those guzzling soda and eating ice cream who are consuming too much.

    16 grams of sugar is 64 calories, the difference in the two meals is 123 calories.

    123 kcals X 200 days of the year (assuming some breakfast variety) = 24600 extra kcals

    24600kcals / 3500kcal/lb = an extra 7 lbs per year (assuming CO doesn't change)

    and if they eat in a deficit or at maintenance it won't matter.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,846 Member
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    bisky wrote: »
    Agree:
    The 2015 Dietary Guideline Advisory Committee just released new recommendations to limit added sugars to 10 percent of daily calories. Right now, Americans are eating more sugar than ever before — on average, about 160 pounds a year.

    Everything I've seen has said added sugar consumption is down some. Still too high, but at about 14% of calories (vs. the 10% or less recommended--although one can certainly argue that lower would be better). Even this stat is a little misleading, as apparently about 49% of this is from soda (the lion's share) plus other sweetened drinks. While those who consume sweetened drinks tend to get lots and lots of calories (and sugar) from them, I don't believe they are the majority. Even at my fattest I never consumed sweetened drinks (or crazy amounts of sugar).

    Does your number include non-added sugar (like from fruits and veg)?

    And as someone who has eaten a variety of foods with sugar, from carrots to apples to ice cream, the notion that it's similar to cocaine or super addictive in itself (would you even want to eat plain sugar? ugh) or dangerous in itself simply doesn't pass the red face test. Having a terrible diet and being overweight, yes, both can be quite bad for your health. I'd include drinking tons of calories from soda as "having a terrible diet," sure.

    Just curious if anyone ever engages in a thoughtful discussion with you when you pose such logical questions about such an impassioned topic? It certainly doesn't seem so, from the many threads on this topic where I've seen you raise these valid points, but if it ever does happen, can you tag me into the thread? I'd love to see a serious discussion on this that didn't just include a bunch of references to different articles (on both sides).

    @lemurcat12 is one of my favorite posters and I like to think I thoughtfully engage her. She's given me some great book recommendations, like "Salt, Sugar, Fat" and "Mindless Eating." Although we have different takeaways from "Salt, Sugar, Fat" I've enjoyed discussing it with her. We seem to share the same food values, so I find it funny (in the mildly amusing sense of the word) when we take different positions on issues.
  • auddii
    auddii Posts: 15,357 Member
    CollieFit wrote: »
    Not wanting to enter into the sugar debate... but an interesting observation in the link was about other changes which have contributed to the rise in obesity, such as the increased size of crockery. I also noticed this when we bought new plates recently. In the UK certainly dinner plates seem to be getting bigger and bigger. You can now buy pasta dishes that are the size that serving bowls used to be. When dishing up people just kind of "fill the plate".

    I am trying to register for dishes for my wedding, and I'm having the hardest problem finding normal sized bowls. Cereal bowls are the size of pasta bowls these days. I ended up getting "tasting bowls" (or something like that) for anything close to a normal serving size of most anything.
  • bisky
    bisky Posts: 953 Member
    edited January 2016
    Not every person has a sugar problem or addiction or will end up Type 2 Diabetis. Does not mean sugar is not addicting. Not everyone has an alcohol or drug problem. Does not mean is does not exist. Just because you are okay with sugar and it is not a factor or problem in your diet does not mean that is true for others. I have a very thin athletic friend who lives on pasta, carbs and sugar. She has a metabolism that runs on carbs. I do not. I have had glucose tolerance tests so I know what sugar (glucose) does to my blood sugar and how I could be borderline pre diabetes if I don't exercise or watch what I eat.

    Rankinsect, I agree Type 1 or 2 Diabetis is not caused by sugar intake but it is a condition of high blood sugar. Insulin, a hormone is not doing its job.

    :
    http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/Diabetes/insulin-resistance-prediabetes/Pages/index.aspx#what

    (only because some think I need to post my resources even though others can spout off without evidenced based research ). This is not a research but an article posted in the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases (NIDDK) conducts, supports, and coordinates research on many of the most serious diseases affecting public health. The Institute supports clinical research on the diseases of internal medicine and related subspecialty fields, as well as many basic science disciplines.

    Insulin's Role in Blood Glucose Control
    When blood glucose levels rise after a meal, the pancreas releases insulin into the blood. Insulin and glucose then travel in the blood to cells throughout the body.

    Insulin helps muscle, fat, and liver cells absorb glucose from the bloodstream, lowering blood glucose levels.
    Insulin stimulates the liver and muscle tissue to store excess glucose. The stored form of glucose is called glycogen.
    Insulin also lowers blood glucose levels by reducing glucose production in the liver.
    In a healthy person, these functions allow blood glucose and insulin levels to remain in the normal range.

    What is insulin resistance?
    Insulin resistance is a condition in which the body produces insulin but does not use it effectively. When people have insulin resistance, glucose builds up in the blood instead of being absorbed by the cells, leading to type 2 diabetes or prediabetes.

    Most people with insulin resistance don't know they have it for many years—until they develop type 2 diabetes, a serious, lifelong disease. The good news is that if people learn they have insulin resistance early on, they can often prevent or delay diabetes by making changes to their lifestyle.

    Insulin resistance can lead to a variety of serious health disorders. The section "What is metabolic syndrome?" provides more information about other health disorders linked to insulin resistance.

    lemurcat12 - I do agree that sugar laden beverages that offer very little nutrition and super sized soft drinks are one of the biggest detriments to our society's diet. They can zap the blood sugar level up extremely quickly and then it falls.

  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
    bisky wrote: »
    Not every person has a sugar problem or addiction or will end up Type 2 Diabetis. Does not mean sugar is not addicting. Not everyone has an alcohol or drug problem. Does not mean is does not exist. Just because you are okay with sugar and it is not a factor or problem in your diet does not mean that is true for others. I have a very thin athletic friend who lives on pasta, carbs and sugar. She has a metabolism that runs on carbs. I do not. I have had glucose tolerance tests so I know what sugar (glucose) does to my blood sugar and how my insulin is borderline pre diabetes.

    Rankinsect, I agree Type 1 or 2 Diabetis is not caused by sugar intake but it is a condition of high blood sugar. Insulin, a hormone is not doing its job.

    To understand this better I went to:
    http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/Diabetes/insulin-resistance-prediabetes/Pages/index.aspx#what

    (only because some think I need to post my resources even though they can spout off without anything to back themselves up scientifically and then attack ).

    Insulin's Role in Blood Glucose Control
    When blood glucose levels rise after a meal, the pancreas releases insulin into the blood. Insulin and glucose then travel in the blood to cells throughout the body.

    Insulin helps muscle, fat, and liver cells absorb glucose from the bloodstream, lowering blood glucose levels.
    Insulin stimulates the liver and muscle tissue to store excess glucose. The stored form of glucose is called glycogen.
    Insulin also lowers blood glucose levels by reducing glucose production in the liver.
    In a healthy person, these functions allow blood glucose and insulin levels to remain in the normal range.

    What is insulin resistance?
    Insulin resistance is a condition in which the body produces insulin but does not use it effectively. When people have insulin resistance, glucose builds up in the blood instead of being absorbed by the cells, leading to type 2 diabetes or prediabetes.

    Most people with insulin resistance don't know they have it for many years—until they develop type 2 diabetes, a serious, lifelong disease. The good news is that if people learn they have insulin resistance early on, they can often prevent or delay diabetes by making changes to their lifestyle.

    Insulin resistance can lead to a variety of serious health disorders. The section "What is metabolic syndrome?" provides more information about other health disorders linked to insulin resistance.

    protein spikes insulin too, yet, I dont see people being told to avoid that.

    Again, there are zero human trials showing sugar as an addictive substance in humans.
  • dubird
    dubird Posts: 1,849 Member
    Ok, just to chime in. This is the only actual scientific report I've been able to find on sugar and possible addiction:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/

    The conclusion (TL;DR version):
    "According to the evidence in rats, intermittent access to sugar and chow is capable of producing a “dependency”. This was operationally defined by tests for bingeing, withdrawal, craving and cross-sensitization to amphetamine and alcohol. The correspondence to some people with binge eating disorder or bulimia is striking, but whether or not it is a good idea to call this a “food addiction” in people is both a scientific and societal question that has yet to be answered. What this review demonstrates is that rats with intermittent access to food and a sugar solution can show both a constellation of behaviors and parallel brain changes that are characteristic of rats that voluntarily self-administer addictive drugs. In the aggregrate, this is evidence that sugar can be addictive."

    To me, that doesn't suggest the same kind of addiction that hard drugs or alcohol can create. I agree that there are people that crave sugar more than others, some of which is due to familiarity of it. And to be honest, I think it's wrong to suggest sugar is on the same level as hard drugs in terms of dependency or in the same realm of eating disorders, like anorexia.

    However, I'm not saying we shouldn't care about our sugar intake. That intake has increased DRAMATICALLY over the past 50 years or so, in part because of ready to eat meals. Adding sugar or salt is a cheap way of adding flavor, and so people who don't pay attention to that end up eating a LOT more than they think they do. And part of it is that people eat a lot more than they need to, period. What we consider a normal serving size has increased as well, to the point where dishes are bigger to cater to that. Just go to about any restaurant and see that in action! We as a society are eating more food in general, and even if you cut sugar out of that, people still eat more than they really should. I personally think the focus should be on cutting down our intake of food, period, not certain foods. I mean, I totally don't have the healthiest diet as suggested by the FDA or other authorities. I eat a ton of carbs and I'm totally on board with having a slice of cake or a few cookies when I want to. However I've learned to limit what I eat on high calorie/low nutrient foods, which means I do cut down on sweets just because if I get my calorie limit with that, I'm still hungry because it's a lot less food overall. And I'm still getting the nutrition my body needs, so why should I limit types of foods if I have no medical reason to do so?