Ever heard of Abbreviated training? Help

viren19890
viren19890 Posts: 778 Member
edited November 29 in Fitness and Exercise
Hello,

On my journey to 12% body fat, I'm learning new things everyday but I come back here to verify if what I've learned is credible or not.

I've been doing 5/3/1 since May 2015 and saw great results strength wise. Gained 15lbs too on a diet which I didn't even know what it was.

Now I'm on caloric deficit and I'm learning that Abbreviated training is best for natural and genetically average lifters.

Right now I'm working out 5 days a week Squat, Chest, Deadlift, Overhead Press and Pendlay row. On Saturday I box for 20 mins.

So that program suggests even if I work 3 days a week I'll get same results given I do compound lifts.

My current program 5/3/1 has one week off cycle deload. I workout 3 weeks and get one week deload. Now I've stopped taking even deload cuz apparently I'd lose muscle while losing fat.

What do you guys think? Seriously my brain will explode, one says something and other something else. Lol sometimes my workout feels like a lot and I don't feel like getting out of bed but I still do cuz I will feel more pain from the guilt of missing a workout than actual workout.

Replies

  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
    Why didn't you just carry on doing 5/3/1 if you were getting good results from it? I've run it in a deficit, in a surplus, at maintenance... it's fine.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    5/3/1 is a solid program...you're not going to lose muscle in a one week de-load.
  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
    You can do 2 back to back three week 5/3/1 cycles and deload on the seventh week. He also has 7 different deload schemes in Beyond 5/3/1. You might want to take a look at them to see which fits your needs/preferences.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    You don't lose muscle taking a week off or deloading.
  • Lleldiranne
    Lleldiranne Posts: 5,516 Member
    The deload is important so that you don't overtax your muscle (he explains it in 5/3/1). Like @jemhh said above, you could do 2 three week cycles and then a deload, or some other variation. But I agree also with @cwolfman13 , you aren't going to lose muscle in a 1 week deload. And, in my opinion, if you are pushing yourself to work out when you don't feel like getting out of bed, you may be overdoing it and could really use the deload.

    I'm running 5/3/1 in a deficit right now and still making good progress. I'm guessing that your goal right now is a cut to lower body fat, 5/3/1 works fine for that. You will lose some muscle on a cut, no matter what program you do, but any good lifting program will help to minimize that (and you will gain some fat on a bulk, but again a good progressive lifting program will help minimize that, too).
  • viren19890
    viren19890 Posts: 778 Member
    mathjulz wrote: »
    The deload is important so that you don't overtax your muscle (he explains it in 5/3/1). Like @jemhh said above, you could do 2 three week cycles and then a deload, or some other variation. But I agree also with @cwolfman13 , you aren't going to lose muscle in a 1 week deload. And, in my opinion, if you are pushing yourself to work out when you don't feel like getting out of bed, you may be overdoing it and could really use the deload.

    I'm running 5/3/1 in a deficit right now and still making good progress. I'm guessing that your goal right now is a cut to lower body fat, 5/3/1 works fine for that. You will lose some muscle on a cut, no matter what program you do, but any good lifting program will help to minimize that (and you will gain some fat on a bulk, but again a good progressive lifting program will help minimize that, too).

    From what I'm brought to understand is that if you are gentically average or natural lifter if you do abbreviated training you will see similar results like a program which makes you work 5-6 days a week.

    For example since May 2015 I've been working out 5 days a week non stop. Mon - Squat then I'll do 5x5 as recommended and then drop the weight and do 5x10 and then accessory front squats.

    The other training you still do compound exercise and lift heavy but two days a week. Mon squat and chest. Thursday Deadlift and Shoulder press. 4 sets with 4-6 rep range and thats it. You can add accessory work but all in all maximum number of exercises shouldn't increase more than 8 including the big 4.

    Rest other days of the week is cardio and FOCUS on diet. Can also do HIIT if one pleases but between both training days one should be fully recovered.

    This method flies in the face of everything I've learned so far from YouTube and other forums.

    When I was a beginner I trained three days a week with 5x5 starting strength method and I was leaner and felt stronger, now even though I can lift a lot more weight, mentally I feel tired all the time. I said "mentally" cuz my deadlift and bench is still progressing by 10 and 5 lbs per cycle of 5/3/1
  • viren19890
    viren19890 Posts: 778 Member
    Sorry for the long post but details were needed to be posted.

    BTW who is considered a beginner? And what's genetically gifted?
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,573 Member
    You're thinking too hard I believe. Run 5/3/1 as written in a deficit. It's great. Though I'll admit to not deloading myself, even though I'm aware of the benefits.
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
    viren19890 wrote: »
    Sorry for the long post but details were needed to be posted.

    BTW who is considered a beginner? And what's genetically gifted?

    If you can add weight to the bar every session still, then you're a beginner and there are programmes that cater to that.

    Once you can no longer add weight to the bar session to session then you move on to intermediate programming. The point that that happens is different for every individual based on a whole host of factors, but you'll know when you reach that point.

    Who know's who's "genetically gifted?" - your genetics may mean your limb proportions make you a natural squatter and a mediocre bencher. So what? You can still continue to improve both lifts over time. Perfect is the enemy of good - just try your best to be good and get better, everything else will fall into place I promise.
  • viren19890
    viren19890 Posts: 778 Member
    jimmmer wrote: »
    viren19890 wrote: »
    Sorry for the long post but details were needed to be posted.

    BTW who is considered a beginner? And what's genetically gifted?

    If you can add weight to the bar every session still, then you're a beginner and there are programmes that cater to that.

    Once you can no longer add weight to the bar session to session then you move on to intermediate programming. The point that that happens is different for every individual based on a whole host of factors, but you'll know when you reach that point.

    Who know's who's "genetically gifted?" - your genetics may mean your limb proportions make you a natural squatter and a mediocre bencher. So what? You can still continue to improve both lifts over time. Perfect is the enemy of good - just try your best to be good and get better, everything else will fall into place I promise.

    OK based on this I'm genetically lower than averagecuz I have no magical lifts or power lol
    I used to think that people who workout very little and are able to make great gains are the ones with "genes" and that's what's genetically gifted meant lol

    OK another question what's over training then?
    Cuz I haven't seen increased size in any body part only gains in strength since May of last year. Isn't that a sign that something might be off.?
  • viren19890
    viren19890 Posts: 778 Member
    arditarose wrote: »
    You're thinking too hard I believe. Run 5/3/1 as written in a deficit. It's great. Though I'll admit to not deloading myself, even though I'm aware of the benefits.

    You might be right but doesn't the book for both 5x5 and this program both say that you gotta eat big for these programs to work?
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,573 Member
    edited January 2016
    viren19890 wrote: »
    arditarose wrote: »
    You're thinking too hard I believe. Run 5/3/1 as written in a deficit. It's great. Though I'll admit to not deloading myself, even though I'm aware of the benefits.

    You might be right but doesn't the book for both 5x5 and this program both say that you gotta eat big for these programs to work?

    For muscle gains...sure. They're not targeting the fat loss community, but using these programs in a deficit will help you to preserve muscle mass.
  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
    edited January 2016
    viren19890 wrote: »
    mathjulz wrote: »
    The deload is important so that you don't overtax your muscle (he explains it in 5/3/1). Like @jemhh said above, you could do 2 three week cycles and then a deload, or some other variation. But I agree also with @cwolfman13 , you aren't going to lose muscle in a 1 week deload. And, in my opinion, if you are pushing yourself to work out when you don't feel like getting out of bed, you may be overdoing it and could really use the deload.

    I'm running 5/3/1 in a deficit right now and still making good progress. I'm guessing that your goal right now is a cut to lower body fat, 5/3/1 works fine for that. You will lose some muscle on a cut, no matter what program you do, but any good lifting program will help to minimize that (and you will gain some fat on a bulk, but again a good progressive lifting program will help minimize that, too).

    From what I'm brought to understand is that if you are gentically average or natural lifter if you do abbreviated training you will see similar results like a program which makes you work 5-6 days a week.

    For example since May 2015 I've been working out 5 days a week non stop. Mon - Squat then I'll do 5x5 as recommended and then drop the weight and do 5x10 and then accessory front squats.

    The other training you still do compound exercise and lift heavy but two days a week. Mon squat and chest. Thursday Deadlift and Shoulder press. 4 sets with 4-6 rep range and thats it. You can add accessory work but all in all maximum number of exercises shouldn't increase more than 8 including the big 4.

    Rest other days of the week is cardio and FOCUS on diet. Can also do HIIT if one pleases but between both training days one should be fully recovered.

    This method flies in the face of everything I've learned so far from YouTube and other forums.

    When I was a beginner I trained three days a week with 5x5 starting strength method and I was leaner and felt stronger, now even though I can lift a lot more weight, mentally I feel tired all the time. I said "mentally" cuz my deadlift and bench is still progressing by 10 and 5 lbs per cycle of 5/3/1

    I'm kind of confused about what you're talking about here but it just sounds like a 2 day lifting program, which is completely fine. Wendler himself has written plenty about 2 days of lifting a week and includes such plans in his books. You can change your schedule seasonally or every few months without changing your core program. Do you have either 5/3/1 book? If so, the discussion about 2 day training in the 2nd edition of the first 5/3/1 book happens at p. 76 and in Beyond 5/3 /1 it's at location 1530 or 56% on Kindle.
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
    edited January 2016
    viren19890 wrote: »
    jimmmer wrote: »
    viren19890 wrote: »
    Sorry for the long post but details were needed to be posted.

    BTW who is considered a beginner? And what's genetically gifted?

    If you can add weight to the bar every session still, then you're a beginner and there are programmes that cater to that.

    Once you can no longer add weight to the bar session to session then you move on to intermediate programming. The point that that happens is different for every individual based on a whole host of factors, but you'll know when you reach that point.

    Who know's who's "genetically gifted?" - your genetics may mean your limb proportions make you a natural squatter and a mediocre bencher. So what? You can still continue to improve both lifts over time. Perfect is the enemy of good - just try your best to be good and get better, everything else will fall into place I promise.

    OK based on this I'm genetically lower than averagecuz I have no magical lifts or power lol
    I used to think that people who workout very little and are able to make great gains are the ones with "genes" and that's what's genetically gifted meant lol

    OK another question what's over training then?
    Cuz I haven't seen increased size in any body part only gains in strength since May of last year. Isn't that a sign that something might be off.?

    To increase in size you need adequate training volume and adequate food.

    If you eat enough, but lift without sufficient volume and progressive overload you'll likely just get fat.

    If you lift with sufficient volume and progressive overload, but don't eat enough, you'll likely just get stronger overtime and lose fat.

    And, I don't want this to sound harsh, but you're blaming "genetics" - that's a victim mentality. Once you label something that's outside of your control as responsible for your current situation, you lose power to make positive changes.

    Ask yourself: "what can I control?". Answer: Diet, Training, Recovery, Technique, Sleep, Hydration. Have you made sufficient effort to make sure that all those things are right before blaming lack of progress on some nebulous "genetic" factors. Example: you have made no mass gains - what steps have you taken to increase your average calorie input weekly until you see a steady rate of gains on the scale? Example: have you tried increasing training volume for body parts where mass gain is your priority? You could ask yourself similar questions for the other factors you can control.

    Basically: Over-training is where you have trained over your maximum recoverable volume (to steal a phrase from the juggernaut guys) for so long that you actually get weaker, lose sleep, appetite goes wonky, sex drive fails, etc. This is not the same as functionally overreaching where you train progressively harder to a certain point and then back off with a light or deload week or something similar to allow your body to adapt to the stimulus. 5/3/1 is actually a pretty good example of this (at least if you push the 1+ week hard enough).

    Finally: you must be better at some lifts than others? At least, you must enjoy doing certain lifts more than others, surely? I love to squat and hate to bench. I have good mobility and proportions for squatting and I'm carrying 25 years of shoulder injuries that make benching a pain in the *kitten*. Nobody is amazing at everything, you just have to do the best with what you've got and make a solid effort to improve over time. Anything else is childish. Perfect is the enemy of good.
  • WeaponXI
    WeaponXI Posts: 63 Member
    5/3/1 is a great program, and I've been following it for a long time, but regardless of what program you run it takes time and a lot of hard work,
    Yes, some people have what seems to be a genetic edge when it comes to gains from training and whatever, I don't feel like I'm one of those "lucky ones," so I just push myself harder. I found that's what works for me.


    The following is right off of Jim Wendler's website;

    The person who is hated the most has the best genetics. This is because they are successful and captialize on their good genetics by also working hard. This makes people who don’t work hard feel inferior so thus, they blame everything but themselves for their lack of success.

    Simply put, if you are successful you have good genetics. Just some people’s genetics are more mental than physical.

    If someone “could’ve gone pro but the coach hated me” then he has sh**** genetics because he is too stupid to do what is necessary to play the game. Thus his mental genetics/will to succeed is weak. And let’s be honest, if a coach HATED Michael Jordan he’d probably still play him.
  • viren19890
    viren19890 Posts: 778 Member
    jimmmer wrote: »
    viren19890 wrote: »
    jimmmer wrote: »
    viren19890 wrote: »
    Sorry for the long post but details were needed to be posted.

    BTW who is considered a beginner? And what's genetically gifted?

    If you can add weight to the bar every session still, then you're a beginner and there are programmes that cater to that.

    Once you can no longer add weight to the bar session to session then you move on to intermediate programming. The point that that happens is different for every individual based on a whole host of factors, but you'll know when you reach that point.

    Who know's who's "genetically gifted?" - your genetics may mean your limb proportions make you a natural squatter and a mediocre bencher. So what? You can still continue to improve both lifts over time. Perfect is the enemy of good - just try your best to be good and get better, everything else will fall into place I promise.

    OK based on this I'm genetically lower than averagecuz I have no magical lifts or power lol
    I used to think that people who workout very little and are able to make great gains are the ones with "genes" and that's what's genetically gifted meant lol

    OK another question what's over training then?
    Cuz I haven't seen increased size in any body part only gains in strength since May of last year. Isn't that a sign that something might be off.?

    To increase in size you need adequate training volume and adequate food.

    If you eat enough, but lift without sufficient volume and progressive overload you'll likely just get fat.

    If you lift with sufficient volume and progressive overload, but don't eat enough, you'll likely just get stronger overtime and lose fat.

    And, I don't want this to sound harsh, but you're blaming "genetics" - that's a victim mentality. Once you label something that's outside of your control as responsible for your current situation, you lose power to make positive changes.

    Ask yourself: "what can I control?". Answer: Diet, Training, Recovery, Technique, Sleep, Hydration. Have you made sufficient effort to make sure that all those things are right before blaming lack of progress on some nebulous "genetic" factors. Example: you have made no mass gains - what steps have you taken to increase your average calorie input weekly until you see a steady rate of gains on the scale? Example: have you tried increasing training volume for body parts where mass gain is your priority? You could ask yourself similar questions for the other factors you can control.

    Basically: Over-training is where you have trained over your maximum recoverable volume (to steal a phrase from the juggernaut guys) for so long that you actually get weaker, lose sleep, appetite goes wonky, sex drive fails, etc. This is not the same as functionally overreaching where you train progressively harder to a certain point and then back off with a light or deload week or something similar to allow your body to adapt to the stimulus. 5/3/1 is actually a pretty good example of this (at least if you push the 1+ week hard enough).

    Finally: you must be better at some lifts than others? At least, you must enjoy doing certain lifts more than others, surely? I love to squat and hate to bench. I have good mobility and proportions for squatting and I'm carrying 25 years of shoulder injuries that make benching a pain in the *kitten*. Nobody is amazing at everything, you just have to do the best with what you've got and make a solid effort to improve over time. Anything else is childish. Perfect is the enemy of good.

    LOL bro I said I'm not genetically above average because none of my "one" lift is far superior than others. They are all progressing at same pace.

    I didn't blame anything at all. The poster gave definition for genetics and based on that definition I'm not gifted. That's all I said.

    I also posted that since May 2015 on a *kitten* diet (as in not knowing about surplus and deficit at all) I kept progressing in weights. I still am in bench and deadlift.

    LOL I used d to eat by whatever kept me full. I wasn't even taking anything close to my 230 grams of daily protein. It was around like 70-80 at most.

    That's all I said. No blame whatsoever.
    Or how you called victim mentality.

  • viren19890
    viren19890 Posts: 778 Member
    Lol This thread turned from my simple question of "is it possible to train two days a week and still maintain muscle and lose weight" into how I'm a pusy lol

  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    viren19890 wrote: »
    jimmmer wrote: »
    viren19890 wrote: »
    jimmmer wrote: »
    viren19890 wrote: »
    Sorry for the long post but details were needed to be posted.

    BTW who is considered a beginner? And what's genetically gifted?

    If you can add weight to the bar every session still, then you're a beginner and there are programmes that cater to that.

    Once you can no longer add weight to the bar session to session then you move on to intermediate programming. The point that that happens is different for every individual based on a whole host of factors, but you'll know when you reach that point.

    Who know's who's "genetically gifted?" - your genetics may mean your limb proportions make you a natural squatter and a mediocre bencher. So what? You can still continue to improve both lifts over time. Perfect is the enemy of good - just try your best to be good and get better, everything else will fall into place I promise.

    OK based on this I'm genetically lower than averagecuz I have no magical lifts or power lol
    I used to think that people who workout very little and are able to make great gains are the ones with "genes" and that's what's genetically gifted meant lol

    OK another question what's over training then?
    Cuz I haven't seen increased size in any body part only gains in strength since May of last year. Isn't that a sign that something might be off.?

    To increase in size you need adequate training volume and adequate food.

    If you eat enough, but lift without sufficient volume and progressive overload you'll likely just get fat.

    If you lift with sufficient volume and progressive overload, but don't eat enough, you'll likely just get stronger overtime and lose fat.

    And, I don't want this to sound harsh, but you're blaming "genetics" - that's a victim mentality. Once you label something that's outside of your control as responsible for your current situation, you lose power to make positive changes.

    Ask yourself: "what can I control?". Answer: Diet, Training, Recovery, Technique, Sleep, Hydration. Have you made sufficient effort to make sure that all those things are right before blaming lack of progress on some nebulous "genetic" factors. Example: you have made no mass gains - what steps have you taken to increase your average calorie input weekly until you see a steady rate of gains on the scale? Example: have you tried increasing training volume for body parts where mass gain is your priority? You could ask yourself similar questions for the other factors you can control.

    Basically: Over-training is where you have trained over your maximum recoverable volume (to steal a phrase from the juggernaut guys) for so long that you actually get weaker, lose sleep, appetite goes wonky, sex drive fails, etc. This is not the same as functionally overreaching where you train progressively harder to a certain point and then back off with a light or deload week or something similar to allow your body to adapt to the stimulus. 5/3/1 is actually a pretty good example of this (at least if you push the 1+ week hard enough).

    Finally: you must be better at some lifts than others? At least, you must enjoy doing certain lifts more than others, surely? I love to squat and hate to bench. I have good mobility and proportions for squatting and I'm carrying 25 years of shoulder injuries that make benching a pain in the *kitten*. Nobody is amazing at everything, you just have to do the best with what you've got and make a solid effort to improve over time. Anything else is childish. Perfect is the enemy of good.

    LOL bro I said I'm not genetically above average because none of my "one" lift is far superior than others. They are all progressing at same pace.

    I didn't blame anything at all. The poster gave definition for genetics and based on that definition I'm not gifted. That's all I said.

    I also posted that since May 2015 on a *kitten* diet (as in not knowing about surplus and deficit at all) I kept progressing in weights. I still am in bench and deadlift.

    LOL I used d to eat by whatever kept me full. I wasn't even taking anything close to my 230 grams of daily protein. It was around like 70-80 at most.

    That's all I said. No blame whatsoever.
    Or how you called victim mentality.

    Really...that's all you took from that very good post...

    Well, good luck....
  • viren19890
    viren19890 Posts: 778 Member
    Question however still persists. Is it possible to do my routine in two days and stay on a weight loss path?

    Monday I can do Squats and Chest and Rows

    Thursday Deadlift and Overhead press, arms.

    HIIT in the days between?

    Another question was is there something really special or better by doing all this spread over 5 days?

    Monday Squats n variations
    Tuesday Cheat and variations
    Wednesday Deadlift and variations
    Thursday Overhead press and variations
    Friday Row and variations

    This is my current routine from May 2015
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    edited January 2016
    viren19890 wrote: »
    Question however still persists. Is it possible to do my routine in two days and stay on a weight loss path?

    Monday I can do Squats and Chest and Rows

    Thursday Deadlift and Overhead press, arms.

    HIIT in the days between?

    Another question was is there something really special or better by doing all this spread over 5 days?

    Monday Squats n variations
    Tuesday Cheat and variations
    Wednesday Deadlift and variations
    Thursday Overhead press and variations
    Friday Row and variations

    This is my current routine from May 2015

    You can do nothing at all and stay on a weight loss path...I wouldn't recommend it, but exercise of any sort isn't necessary to lose weight.

    There are numerous ways to program that "work"...some people do splits...many do full body routines for which you only need to lift 2-3x per week...it really just depends on what you want to do.

    A 2x per week full body routine is basically the minimum for retaining mass...it is not optimal for putting on mass are making substantial strength gains.
  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
    Twice a week is fine. Read the posts and you'll see that's been answered.
  • viren19890
    viren19890 Posts: 778 Member
    Ok before this goes totally off topic. I'd like to tah ka everyone for posting here and sharing their knowledge.

    I started this thread by saying that I come here to learn and to check if what I've learned is credible or not. Please don't take offence.

    It's online and words get interpreted in such a way that the writer never intended.

    Once again thanks for sharing your thoughts.
  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
    OP, I have to say that I found your first few posts really confusing. I didn't even know for sure that you were asking about 2 day a week training until a couple of posts ago. Your first post sounded like a question about deload. The next post actually did refer to it but even that was a bit unclear. Your posts are a bit...cluttered and confusing. I don't want to come across as picking at your writing, because that's not what I mean to do, but try reading your posts over as if you are your audience and then tweak them a bit to be more clear. You may get more of the answers you need by doing that. Best of luck to you.
  • viren19890
    viren19890 Posts: 778 Member
    jemhh wrote: »
    viren19890 wrote: »
    mathjulz wrote: »
    The deload is important so that you don't overtax your muscle (he explains it in 5/3/1). Like @jemhh said above, you could do 2 three week cycles and then a deload, or some other variation. But I agree also with @cwolfman13 , you aren't going to lose muscle in a 1 week deload. And, in my opinion, if you are pushing yourself to work out when you don't feel like getting out of bed, you may be overdoing it and could really use the deload.

    I'm running 5/3/1 in a deficit right now and still making good progress. I'm guessing that your goal right now is a cut to lower body fat, 5/3/1 works fine for that. You will lose some muscle on a cut, no matter what program you do, but any good lifting program will help to minimize that (and you will gain some fat on a bulk, but again a good progressive lifting program will help minimize that, too).

    From what I'm brought to understand is that if you are gentically average or natural lifter if you do abbreviated training you will see similar results like a program which makes you work 5-6 days a week.

    For example since May 2015 I've been working out 5 days a week non stop. Mon - Squat then I'll do 5x5 as recommended and then drop the weight and do 5x10 and then accessory front squats.

    The other training you still do compound exercise and lift heavy but two days a week. Mon squat and chest. Thursday Deadlift and Shoulder press. 4 sets with 4-6 rep range and thats it. You can add accessory work but all in all maximum number of exercises shouldn't increase more than 8 including the big 4.

    Rest other days of the week is cardio and FOCUS on diet. Can also do HIIT if one pleases but between both training days one should be fully recovered.

    This method flies in the face of everything I've learned so far from YouTube and other forums.

    When I was a beginner I trained three days a week with 5x5 starting strength method and I was leaner and felt stronger, now even though I can lift a lot more weight, mentally I feel tired all the time. I said "mentally" cuz my deadlift and bench is still progressing by 10 and 5 lbs per cycle of 5/3/1

    I'm kind of confused about what you're talking about here but it just sounds like a 2 day lifting program, which is completely fine. Wendler himself has written plenty about 2 days of lifting a week and includes such plans in his books. You can change your schedule seasonally or every few months without changing your core program. Do you have either 5/3/1 book? If so, the discussion about 2 day training in the 2nd edition of the first 5/3/1 book happens at p. 76 and in Beyond 5/3 /1 it's at location 1530 or 56% on Kindle.

    Thank you

    I found it, it's on page 24 of my pdf. Beyond 5/3/1

    It's called boring but big, 2 days week
  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
    edited January 2016
    viren19890 wrote: »
    jemhh wrote: »
    viren19890 wrote: »
    mathjulz wrote: »
    The deload is important so that you don't overtax your muscle (he explains it in 5/3/1). Like @jemhh said above, you could do 2 three week cycles and then a deload, or some other variation. But I agree also with @cwolfman13 , you aren't going to lose muscle in a 1 week deload. And, in my opinion, if you are pushing yourself to work out when you don't feel like getting out of bed, you may be overdoing it and could really use the deload.

    I'm running 5/3/1 in a deficit right now and still making good progress. I'm guessing that your goal right now is a cut to lower body fat, 5/3/1 works fine for that. You will lose some muscle on a cut, no matter what program you do, but any good lifting program will help to minimize that (and you will gain some fat on a bulk, but again a good progressive lifting program will help minimize that, too).

    From what I'm brought to understand is that if you are gentically average or natural lifter if you do abbreviated training you will see similar results like a program which makes you work 5-6 days a week.

    For example since May 2015 I've been working out 5 days a week non stop. Mon - Squat then I'll do 5x5 as recommended and then drop the weight and do 5x10 and then accessory front squats.

    The other training you still do compound exercise and lift heavy but two days a week. Mon squat and chest. Thursday Deadlift and Shoulder press. 4 sets with 4-6 rep range and thats it. You can add accessory work but all in all maximum number of exercises shouldn't increase more than 8 including the big 4.

    Rest other days of the week is cardio and FOCUS on diet. Can also do HIIT if one pleases but between both training days one should be fully recovered.

    This method flies in the face of everything I've learned so far from YouTube and other forums.

    When I was a beginner I trained three days a week with 5x5 starting strength method and I was leaner and felt stronger, now even though I can lift a lot more weight, mentally I feel tired all the time. I said "mentally" cuz my deadlift and bench is still progressing by 10 and 5 lbs per cycle of 5/3/1

    I'm kind of confused about what you're talking about here but it just sounds like a 2 day lifting program, which is completely fine. Wendler himself has written plenty about 2 days of lifting a week and includes such plans in his books. You can change your schedule seasonally or every few months without changing your core program. Do you have either 5/3/1 book? If so, the discussion about 2 day training in the 2nd edition of the first 5/3/1 book happens at p. 76 and in Beyond 5/3 /1 it's at location 1530 or 56% on Kindle.

    Thank you

    I found it, it's on page 24 of my pdf. Beyond 5/3/1

    It's called boring but big, 2 days week

    Great!. I never know if the %s and locations are the same across ebook platforms.
  • paulandrachelk
    paulandrachelk Posts: 280 Member
    You may be doing strength program rather than for hypertrophy. Read New Rules for Lifting-great explanation
This discussion has been closed.