completely frustrated - different results, same effort
Replies
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StealthHealth wrote: »I will offer another explanation:
It probably isn't the scale, it's that last year you lost weight at too aggressive a rate and metabolized a lot of muscle along with the fat you burnt off.
So, this year, although your weight is the same your BF% is higher and, since fat is practically metabolically inactive, your BMR is lower. This means that although last year your 1000-1300* was enough to yield a loss, this year it is only enough to maintain.
* given that your 1000 - 1300 could actually be anywhere from 800 - 1600 because you are not weighting your food and your calorific burns form exercise could be massively out because even people with HRMs and fancy activity trackers seem to have problems with calculating their "calories out".
Body composition differences is also a factor I was going to post ~
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I looked at your diary and I'm curious about some entries.
You log some foods by weight but say here that you don't weigh food- only use measuring cups or spoons- and didn't weigh food at all last year. How do you know you are always consuming 2 oz of ham, 4 oz spaghetti, 1 oz cashews, 1 oz blue corn chips, 8 oz of chicken or 1 lb of crab legs? You are guessing and your log is inaccurate. You don't know that you ate the same amount of those foods last year if you didn't weigh them then either. You may have eaten less last year because you guessed differently.
It doesn't really matter what happened last year. Right now you need to do something different if you want to lose weight. Try weighing your food and logging more accurately.
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Thanks, I missed that little detail...
This is fact: if your weight neither moves up nor down for a period of months you can rest assured you are at maintenance.
Food intake is easier to measure objectively than energy output. I do think your cups and spoons may have gotten 'fluffy' with time & familiarity. Knock them back.
Constantly changing routines is good for full body fitness but the idea that familiar exercise is suddenly worthless is one of those myths like starvation mode. There's a kernel of truth within, but not the way most think. Your body gets more efficient with strength, mastery and 'muscle memory' so your burns may diminish to a degree but not dramatically. And the people saying you're a year older are mostly barking up the wrong tree too. BMR does diminish with age, but very gradually over many years. At 37 you are rather young to be in active menopause. Menopause can cause a little general mayhem but even those hormonal downshifts can't out pace the basic law of thermodynamics.
Here's where character & flexibility of mind can really come into play... Maintenance is a b;!ch and there are whole threads on here devoted to getting it right. Lighten up and laugh with yourself a little: you're the unintentional savant of maintenance! Thank your body, try something new, and move on. You will get there. Kiss the past goodbye. This time is going to be SO MUCH BETTER!
xoL0 -
Two options:
1) Stay frustrated
or
2) Take the advice you've been given0 -
I would also try to increase your daily step target. In one part of the post, you state that everything is the same, but in your original post, you mention that you are not exercising as much. Try to add a 1000+ steps to your daily target, in addition to the longer workouts. When that becomes easy for you, add another 1000 steps. And make sure you are tracking as accurately as possible, however you do it. If you have misinformation in your log, then any analysis is doomed to be flawed as well. Good luck.0
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In response to my earlier post: If you did not find a sustainable diet last time, and ate your way back to being overweight again, trying going back to your old attempt is not sustainable.
You need to find a way to rework how you feel about food or you will just continue to log/lose weight, stop logging/gain weight.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Two options:
1) Stay frustrated
or
2) Take the advice you've been given
I used to HATE HATE HATE the responses I used to get on this site!!!
Seriously! OMG I would get INFURIATED.
This is what changed.. I did.. I stopped taking it personally and read what they were saying. These people know what they are talking about. They lived it! they did the hard work.. they are doing the hard work. They KNOW what works.
Everyone is saying the same thing for very valid reasons..
You can stay like I was and continue to be frustration with no results and with their answers, or ( and this is gold) listen and drop the weight and be overall happier and realize these people are honestly trying to help. They are.
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So are you saying that you have "only" lost 2-4 pounds in the 4 weeks since January 26th? That's pretty good, and sounds about right, considering your activity level. That's .5-1 pound per week, give or take some water weight.0
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can anyone offer comments on why I would have different results doing exactly the same things, with the same starting weight, only 1 year apart. Thank you for the water idea. That is something I can think is probably different. Last year I worked in an environment where I drank hot herbal tea all day long. This time around, I'm working from a location where I realize my water intake is probably much less. That's a great helpful, not attacking idea. thank you. I welcome any ideas that are respectfully given.
These boards should be a place we help each other. Otherwise, what's the point? Attacking and insulting strangers is a pretty sad commentary on who you are. Get your aggression out at the gym.
Pretty sure that no one "attacked" you and your comments have been more aggressive than anyone else's. Tight logging and a food scale are the only things that will work if you're not losing weight. How can you be sure you're "doing the exact same thing" as last year if you didn't weigh your food then and you're not doing it now? The answer is- you can't!
To give you an example: I was eating lunch in a company canteen while I was losing weight. When I started I took a normal portion of rice out of the canteen in a paper cup to weigh it and thought I was fine for the months to come. Guess what: when I did a check two months later I found the amount of rice I was eating by then had almost doubled. And I only took a serving spoon full.0 -
My favorite quote ever, see what Albert would tell you.
http://mobile.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/alberteins133991.html0 -
StealthHealth wrote: »I will offer another explanation:
It probably isn't the scale, it's that last year you lost weight at too aggressive a rate and metabolized a lot of muscle along with the fat you burnt off.
So, this year, although your weight is the same your BF% is higher and, since fat is practically metabolically inactive, your BMR is lower. This means that although last year your 1000-1300* was enough to yield a loss, this year it is only enough to maintain.
* given that your 1000 - 1300 could actually be anywhere from 800 - 1600 because you are not weighting your food and your calorific burns form exercise could be massively out because even people with HRMs and fancy activity trackers seem to have problems with calculating their "calories out".
Body composition differences is also a factor I was going to post ~
What @StealthHealth wrote seemed to be brushed by, but I think it's right on point. When you first got to your heaviest weight, it probably took longer than the amount of time you took to gain it to then lose it that first time. Meaning, for example, you may have worked up to 150 over a period of several years, but then lost that weight over a shorter period. When that happens (when one loses weight generally fairly quickly) without doing things specifically to maintain lean body mass, you very likely lost a mix of both muscle and fat.
Now, you put on that weight again over a quicker period of time (less than one year versus probably more than one year the first time); without doing something like purposely gaining muscle mass through progressively lifting heavier weights during that weight gain, that SAME AMOUNT OF WEIGHT probably has a higher percentage of fat versus the slower weight gain the first time around.
Meaning, now you're at the same WEIGHT, but probably have a higher percentage of body fat. It's going to be tougher to get off, and you're likely maintaining your weight with what you're doing this time, even if it's seemingly very similar to what you did the last time.
Example from me: I slowly gained an excess of 70 pounds over the period of about 8 years, between the ages of 40 and 48 (so average 9 pounds per year). While gaining, relatively slowly, my muscles had time to get a bit stronger/bigger simply because I had to haul more body weight around, and had years to do it.
I then lost 60 pounds over the course of 6 months, and an additional 10 pounds in an additional 6 months, so within one year, I lost 70 pounds. I did NOT incorporate a progressive weight lifting program (this is different than the occasional hauling logs around, etc.). So...of those 70 pounds, it was probably 25 pounds of muscle and 45 pounds of fat, I'm guessing, so about a 1:2 ratio or thereabouts.
So I'm at a decent weight. Now, if I laxed on my diet for a year, say, and gained 20 pounds within that year, without purposely maintaining my lean body mass through weight/resistance training, MOST of those 20 pounds gained would be fat. My body would not have the time it takes to build the muscle to compensate for that added weight. Now my ratio of gaining is maybe 18 pounds fat to 2 pounds muscle.
Ended up heavier, but with a higher percentage of fat in those excess pounds. Much harder to lose.
Suggestion: incorporate heavy lifting. Progressively heavier weight training in a proven program. Not the occasional logs or outdoor work. Lift lift lift to get that muscle back.
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I looked at your diary and I'm curious about some entries.
You log some foods by weight but say here that you don't weigh food- only use measuring cups or spoons- and didn't weigh food at all last year. How do you know you are always consuming 2 oz of ham, 4 oz spaghetti, 1 oz cashews, 1 oz blue corn chips, 8 oz of chicken or 1 lb of crab legs? You are guessing and your log is inaccurate. You don't know that you ate the same amount of those foods last year if you didn't weigh them then either. You may have eaten less last year because you guessed differently.
It doesn't really matter what happened last year. Right now you need to do something different if you want to lose weight. Try weighing your food and logging more accurately.
Actually, with all the items you mention, those are pre-weighed. If you buy one pound of crab legs at the store, you know it's one pound. If you always buy the same pack of deli ham, with a weight on it, you can divide the number of slices by the weight to know how much a certain number of slices weigh.
So how about you stop making assumptions?
If i have a weight of an item, of course I add that.
It's so easy to comment what you want without thinking through my real question, which is why is it different when I'm doing all the same things?
I've gotten some great feedback from folks more interested in helping me, than being snarky or nasty.
Different body composition
Change in nutrients (ie I'm drinking less water)
potential change in nutrient content - % of protein, as an example
or that it could just be that it doesn't always work exactly the same each time - i lost weight and then gained it. my body may not be as happy to lose it the second time.
All useful answers that tell me i can make a few tweaks, be more patient and wait and see what happens.0 -
Thanks, I missed that little detail...
This is fact: if your weight neither moves up nor down for a period of months you can rest assured you are at maintenance.
Food intake is easier to measure objectively than energy output. I do think your cups and spoons may have gotten 'fluffy' with time & familiarity. Knock them back.
Constantly changing routines is good for full body fitness but the idea that familiar exercise is suddenly worthless is one of those myths like starvation mode. There's a kernel of truth within, but not the way most think. Your body gets more efficient with strength, mastery and 'muscle memory' so your burns may diminish to a degree but not dramatically. And the people saying you're a year older are mostly barking up the wrong tree too. BMR does diminish with age, but very gradually over many years. At 37 you are rather young to be in active menopause. Menopause can cause a little general mayhem but even those hormonal downshifts can't out pace the basic law of thermodynamics.
Here's where character & flexibility of mind can really come into play... Maintenance is a b;!ch and there are whole threads on here devoted to getting it right. Lighten up and laugh with yourself a little: you're the unintentional savant of maintenance! Thank your body, try something new, and move on. You will get there. Kiss the past goodbye. This time is going to be SO MUCH BETTER!
xoL
thank you for the encouragement. you get more flies with honey....0 -
I looked at your diary and I'm curious about some entries.
You log some foods by weight but say here that you don't weigh food- only use measuring cups or spoons- and didn't weigh food at all last year. How do you know you are always consuming 2 oz of ham, 4 oz spaghetti, 1 oz cashews, 1 oz blue corn chips, 8 oz of chicken or 1 lb of crab legs? You are guessing and your log is inaccurate. You don't know that you ate the same amount of those foods last year if you didn't weigh them then either. You may have eaten less last year because you guessed differently.
It doesn't really matter what happened last year. Right now you need to do something different if you want to lose weight. Try weighing your food and logging more accurately.
This is the same thing I noticed, and they are often calorie dense foods. You have 2.5 small potatoes, also -- often people have wrong ideas of what a "small" is in those counts. So you could be a lot more accurate if you wanted to be, which would help and likely speed up the loss some or help you be more certain of your counts.
I'm not convinced there is a problem, though. You said you started at 150, go down to 146, fluctuate back up to 147-48. It's been a month. You don't have a lot to lose (you are around the top of the healthy BMI). Let's assume that like others your weight fluctuates. It may have been fluctuating 150-52 when you started. Now it's fluctuating 146-48. You may have some water weight gain due to increased exercise and you haven't been doing this long enough to know your monthly patterns. You still seem to be down around 4 lbs, which is 1 per week -- totally fine, even really good.0 -
Okay, I get that using the same measuring technique should get the same results and that it isn't is frustrating.
I still would like to know, what do you feel would be bad about using a scale? Is there something prohibiting you from getting and using one?0 -
I've said this before and this isn't a dig at you OP but what is with the US obsession with measuring all of the things in cups!? I will always find it baffling. I don't know how one measures a cashew with a teaspoon/tablespoon. Did you eat like, 2 cashews? Because I'd get only the one in my teaspoon measure (which I use for oils usually), no more would fit.Because I don't think this has been said...
It would be one thing if you preferred to estimate and eyeball. But if you are taking out the measuring cups and teaspoons/tablespoons, it takes no more effort to weigh things. It's actually easier and takes up less dishes. pouring milk into a measuring cup then pouring it into a bowl seems useless when I could just put a bowl on a scale and pour milk directly in.
Just saying.
Liquids have different densities, you should use cups for liquids to be accurate but the scale for solids. Agreed though that using cups for everything is quite the faff. When I can just throw my plate on the scale and zero it before dishing up each item. No extra washing up or stuffing broccoli into a cup somehow.
OP, I think you need to lose the whimsical view of how last year went for you. It's not working so you have to either accept you're way off in your logging, accept you're not going to lose or accept that you may, just may, have a much easier time by getting accurate and using a scale. I don't really understand the complete resistance.
Also, no-one has been mean or aggressive, you're projecting there because you came in here on the defensive and don't want to hear the stone cold truth.0 -
Goat sacrifice?0
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VintageFeline wrote: »I've said this before and this isn't a dig at you OP but what is with the US obsession with measuring all of the things in cups!? I will always find it baffling. I don't know how one measures a cashew with a teaspoon/tablespoon. Did you eat like, 2 cashews? Because I'd get only the one in my teaspoon measure (which I use for oils usually), no more would fit.
Because that's how almost all our recipes are measured out. Very few will actually give ounces and grams of things, with the exception of some baking recipes. So that's pretty much what we default to when someone says "measure what you're eating". For stuff like nuts, we tend to count the number we eat, which is just as inaccurate as using cups and spoons as each nut can weigh slightly differently.0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »I've said this before and this isn't a dig at you OP but what is with the US obsession with measuring all of the things in cups!? I will always find it baffling. I don't know how one measures a cashew with a teaspoon/tablespoon. Did you eat like, 2 cashews? Because I'd get only the one in my teaspoon measure (which I use for oils usually), no more would fit.
Because that's how almost all our recipes are measured out. Very few will actually give ounces and grams of things, with the exception of some baking recipes. So that's pretty much what we default to when someone says "measure what you're eating". For stuff like nuts, we tend to count the number we eat, which is just as inaccurate as using cups and spoons as each nut can weigh slightly differently.
One of the first things I had to do when I moved here was to buy a set of measuring cups. And then when I sent a recipe to my mum, she immediately emailed me back asking, "what the heck is a 'stick' of butter".
Cups are great for liquids, but you will have to prise my scales from my cold, dead hands.0 -
Packaged food weights can be wrong. My bread that I buy says it's 70 calories per 26g slice. Most slices, I've discovered, at least for this particular brand, are more around 32-33g. It's not a lot, but it's still a difference, so I log 32g not 27. I usually round up, so I'd put 35g. If you don't eat a ton of packaged stuff every day, it probably isn't too much of a difference but there's another place where calories could be off.It's so easy to comment what you want without thinking through my real question, which is why is it different when I'm doing all the same things?
Your question has been answered, numerous times. You are not doing all the same things, because that cup of whatever you measured out in the past, might not have the same amount of calories as the cup you measured out today or will measure out next week or measured out 100 times before. There could be a huge difference in calories, so you have no idea whether what you are doing is the same or not. When you make a recipe, are you absolutely 100% sure you are adding the exact same ingredients in the exact same portions every single time? No, you're not, so you're not eating the same recipe every time.
No one is being snarky, no one is being aggressive or mean, just factual. Blunt, yes, but not mean. You're getting way too defensive. There's only one thing on this green Earth that can cause fat gain or loss, and that is a calorie. Things can vary within your body, but through trial and error, you can lock in on that magic balance of calories in<calories out that will allow you to start losing again. If you feel your calories are low enough that you don't want to reduce them any more and you are absolutely insisting that your measurements are accurate, try walking an extra 20 or 30 minutes a day.
At the end of the day, it's your plan, your body, your choice, but you've been given appropriate information and advice.
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Because I don't think this has been said...
It would be one thing if you preferred to estimate and eyeball. But if you are taking out the measuring cups and teaspoons/tablespoons, it takes no more effort to weigh things. It's actually easier and takes up less dishes. pouring milk into a measuring cup then pouring it into a bowl seems useless when I could just put a bowl on a scale and pour milk directly in.
Just saying.
Well said. I used to use cups and agree that a digital food scale is much easier, let alone accurate.0 -
BruinsGal_91 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »I've said this before and this isn't a dig at you OP but what is with the US obsession with measuring all of the things in cups!? I will always find it baffling. I don't know how one measures a cashew with a teaspoon/tablespoon. Did you eat like, 2 cashews? Because I'd get only the one in my teaspoon measure (which I use for oils usually), no more would fit.
Because that's how almost all our recipes are measured out. Very few will actually give ounces and grams of things, with the exception of some baking recipes. So that's pretty much what we default to when someone says "measure what you're eating". For stuff like nuts, we tend to count the number we eat, which is just as inaccurate as using cups and spoons as each nut can weigh slightly differently.
One of the first things I had to do when I moved here was to buy a set of measuring cups. And then when I sent a recipe to my mum, she immediately emailed me back asking, "what the heck is a 'stick' of butter".
Cups are great for liquids, but you will have to prise my scales from my cold, dead hands.
Don't get me wrong, I have used recipes with cups and own a set of measuring cups but thought that's where it ended, for measuring flour or similar (although a cup or stick of butter always threw me). Seeing that it's also on packaging blows my mind though, knowingly putting something on there that is totally inaccurate is less than helpful. And then transferring that inaccurate logic to things like veggies and chicken, just, baffling.0 -
No - you are wrong - a scale is not the issue. If it was the issue, I would not have lost weight last year. Using a scale is a thoughtless pat answer on these boards - which is why I say that.
I lost all my weight last year without a scale, by measuring. I am doing exactly the same thing now. That is the issue I want help with - not some mindless MFP mantra of 'buy a scale'.
I lost quite well for the first six months by eye balling and using measuring cups. And then I stopped losing. And I bought a scale. And started losing again.
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One other difference I just realized - I'm been exercising betw. 1-3 pm, instead of around 7 am. Could that make a difference? That you silpeanut for the ideas. It's nice to at least hear that someone else has replicated effort with a different result. I weigh but I also take body measurements, because sometimes I will lose inches instead of pounds; I have changed size slightly, but nothing to be impressed/excited by. i believe my biggest loss is my hips - 1 inch. in 5 weeks...
Not as far as weightloss.
HOWEVER - I do find that when I work out in the morning, I make better food choices throughout the day, which result in staying closer to goals. That may be the case for you.
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ashliefisch wrote: »No - you are wrong - a scale is not the issue. If it was the issue, I would not have lost weight last year. Using a scale is a thoughtless pat answer on these boards - which is why I say that.
I lost all my weight last year without a scale, by measuring. I am doing exactly the same thing now. That is the issue I want help with - not some mindless MFP mantra of 'buy a scale'.
I lost quite well for the first six months by eye balling and using measuring cups. And then I stopped losing. And I bought a scale. And started losing again.
Same here.0 -
Your estimated TDEE (Calories you spend per day - BMR + Activity) is 1900 calories per day. I would aim for ~10% deficit and eat 1600 - 1700 calories per day and increase your activity levels. Your estimated BMR (calories needed to keep you alive if completely still) is 1457. If you eat less then that you are fighting hunger chemicals much stronger than willpower.0
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McDermott90 wrote: »I too am completely frustrated. I am now on Day 89 of this program and have simply maintained my current weight. I am always under my 1200 calories and have been working out 3 times/week. I had gone down 3 pounds a few weeks ago but only because I had the flu and was not eating - period. Of course, once I went back those 3 pounds came right back. I'm 57 and people tell me my metabolism is now slow to stop. I don't have much to lose - 10 lbs to make my clothes fit. However, I don't know what I'm doing wrong.
My suggestions:
Your deficit is way too high for how little you need to lose. Adjust your thinking. YOU won't lose 10lbs in 5 weeks. Set yourself to 1/2lb per week instead of 2. This will increase the calories you eat per day, and give your body more of what it needs. Weight loss cannot happen by force, so if a current method isn't working open your mind to changing it.
I never lost a single pound eating 1200 calories per day. I upped to 1400 and that was the only time I was successful- same exercise (just walking). I believe your body can only lose weight so fast so by changing your plan and expectations I think you'll find success.0 -
If I were you Ellaskat I would just take the answers I liked and not visit this thread again. I really don't think anyone has been nasty to you, I think everybody is just trying hard to get you to see another viewpoint. Since you do not like many of the answers you are being given, and you already have a few you do like, why bother reading more? It only seems to get you upset.0
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This shows a comparison of measuring vs weighing and how they can look nearly identical, but can cause a HUGE difference in calories. At least watch the video, please.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjKPIcI51lU" 0
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