Where does the calorie adjustment - "MFP Calories Burned" number come from?

Rumik
Rumik Posts: 86 Member
edited November 30 in Getting Started
Hi all, can you help me clear up some confusion?

My daily calorie goal is set to 1100. I have connected my MS Band 2 to my account. I click on the Calorie Adjustment in my daily diary, then I click on it again, and I'm taken to a breakdown:

Microsoft Health Calories Burned (Full Day Projection based on xxx calories burned as of xxx)
MyFitnessPal Calories Burned... this currently says 1789.

My question is, what's that figure based on?

Trying to understand whether MFP is showing me the correct information or not.

Thanks

Replies

  • CyberTone
    CyberTone Posts: 7,337 Member
    From the MFP Help pages...

    "The National Institutes of Health indicates that eating plans of 1,500 calories for men, and 1,200 calories for women, are safe and effective in achieving weight loss. To align with these guidelines myfitnesspal has implemented a separate calorie minimum for males of 1,500 calories per day."

    Reference: myfitnesspal.desk.com/customer/en/portal/articles/1375583-a-message-about-myfitnesspal-s-updated-nutrition-goals

    You increase the risk of inadequate nutrition and potential loss of lean body mass (muscle tissue, heart tissue, etc) by not fueling your body properly. I would recommend you increase your daily caloric goal to at least 1500 Calories.

    Also, from the MFP Help pages...

    "The MyFitnessPal total includes not only your daily goals, but also the calories needed to reach the goals you have set within the program, such as lose 1 pound, (we originally deduct these calories when providing your daily goals on MyFitnessPal, they then must be added back in when comparing against your actual total burn from your partner device). Since our program instantly awards calories to your day when exercises are added into the cardiovascular section, to avoid double credit, we also add your cardiovascular totals in with your MyFitnessPal total."

    ​Please see this article, and search for other helpful articles, on the MFP Help pages...

    myfitnesspal.desk.com/customer/en/portal/articles/1084232-what-is-the-calorie-adjustment-in-my-exercise-diary-
  • Rumik
    Rumik Posts: 86 Member
    So if my daily calorie goal is set to like 1200, and MFP's recommended minimum is 1500... where's it getting 1700 from?!
  • Rumik
    Rumik Posts: 86 Member
    Is the 1700ish figure simply MFP's estimate of my TDEE? It's definitely too high... is there no way to adjust this?
  • Rumik
    Rumik Posts: 86 Member
    edited February 2016
    Okay, I've just determined that yeah, it's getting that figure from its initial estimation of my goals, regardless of what I manually change them to. WTF.

    turns out it's not true. I redid my initial goal setup, set them to lose 2lb a week so my recommended calories hit 1500 (closer to my actual sedentary TDEE, ie maintenance) disconnected and reconnected, etc, and it's still showing over 1700. Where the hell does MFP get this figure from and how do I change it?

    Okay, that figure is coming directly from the activity level setting. MFP's estimate of my TDEE is simply too high. Rubbish!
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,302 Member
    You are a man Op?

    Unless you are very very short (iPad won't open profiles so I don't know) 1100 is way too low for you.
    can you put your stats - age, current wright, height on here and see what calorie allowance others get putting those into MFP for you?
  • Rumik
    Rumik Posts: 86 Member
    I am 5'4, but that's not the actual daily figure I'm using, I just said 1100 to demonstrate. The fact is, MFP's calculation of my BMR and maintenance calories is way too high.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,302 Member
    Well even at 5 ft 4 that seems way too low. I am a woman of nearly that height and I lost on a calorie allowance of 1460. Am almost certainly older than you too.

    But if that was just an example and not your actual calorie allowance I'm afraid I don't understand the question. Will have to leave it for others to answer.
  • Rumik
    Rumik Posts: 86 Member
    I appreciate your help, but I've figured this out now. The calculations MFP use to work out your sedentary TDEE are simply too high. If I adjust my height in my profile I can get it to go lower, giving me an accurate calorie burn estimation.
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    They aren't too high ...something must be wrong somewhere though

    Check against other BMR calculators like http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/ (but note that this is a cut from TDEE basis)

    Work out your BMR and multiply by 1.2 for sedentary for MFP (exercise is on top)

    MFP calculation is based on yout
    Age
    Gender
    Height
    Weight
    Stated activity level excluding exercise
    Goal weight loss/gain per week

    What figure has it given you if not 1100 ?
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    edited February 2016
    A 5'4 sedentary male would not have a 1600 TDEE

    If you weighed say 140lbs and were 25 your TDEE would be 1900 at sedentary

    Is there any chance you're using BMR (basal metabolic rate eg what you burn at rest in 24 hours) rather than TDEE (total daily energy expenditure eg BMR plus activity plus purposeful exercise)?
  • Rumik
    Rumik Posts: 86 Member
    edited February 2016
    I think the activity multipliers they are using are just a bit too high. If sedentary is actually 1.1 (which I believe it to be based on experience... http://www.muscleforlife.com/weight-loss-calculator/) then my maintenance calories are 1572. So, if I fiddle with my height in my profile, and set my MFP activity level to sedentary, and goal to maintain weight, I can get my "MyFitnessPal Calories Burned" to be the same as my maintenance calories as determined by the above calculator.

    However, something I'm trying to wrap my head around, is that when I was using my FitBit, not only was my TDEE set too high, but FitBit was overestimating my calorie burn. According to a scientific comparison by T3, MS Band 2 is actually the most accurate fitness band on the market, and FitBit Charge HR overestimates by around 30%. So, assuming my TDEE is now set correctly, and my calorie burn is now being reported accurately, everything should be fine. But because I've reduced my TDEE on MFP, I'm now seeing extra calories coming through sooner than they were before. But on the other hand, when I switch to bulking, a lower TDEE will ensure I don't accidentally over-eat.

    I'll see how things go over the next 2 weeks. If I'm not happy with the weight loss then I'll probably set my TDEE back to what MFP says it should be.

    FYI, my weight is 123lb, body fat is 13%. Last year, when I first got my FitBit, I spent a day without exercising, just sitting around doing normal things, and my calorie burn at the end of the day was around 1600, so I'm relatively confident that calculator is pretty accurate. Close enough, anyway.
  • WaterBunnie
    WaterBunnie Posts: 1,371 Member
    You don't need to set your TDEE on here, just set to sedentary (already covers first 2 miles a day in my case) and allow negative adjustments in the exercise section and then your band adjusts your activity level for you by way of the exercise calories. It usually adjusts all day in case of FitBit so not accurate until day's end.
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    edited February 2016
    Rumik wrote: »
    I think the activity multipliers they are using are just a bit too high. If sedentary is actually 1.1 (which I believe it to be based on experience... http://www.muscleforlife.com/weight-loss-calculator/) then my maintenance calories are 1572. So, if I fiddle with my height in my profile, and set my MFP activity level to sedentary, and goal to maintain weight, I can get my "MyFitnessPal Calories Burned" to be the same as my maintenance calories as determined by the above calculator.

    However, something I'm trying to wrap my head around, is that when I was using my FitBit, not only was my TDEE set too high, but FitBit was overestimating my calorie burn. According to a scientific comparison by T3, MS Band 2 is actually the most accurate fitness band on the market, and FitBit Charge HR overestimates by around 30%. So, assuming my TDEE is now set correctly, and my calorie burn is now being reported accurately, everything should be fine. But because I've reduced my TDEE on MFP, I'm now seeing extra calories coming through sooner than they were before. But on the other hand, when I switch to bulking, a lower TDEE will ensure I don't accidentally over-eat.

    I'll see how things go over the next 2 weeks. If I'm not happy with the weight loss then I'll probably set my TDEE back to what MFP says it should be.

    FYI, my weight is 123lb, body fat is 13%. Last year, when I first got my FitBit, I spent a day without exercising, just sitting around doing normal things, and my calorie burn at the end of the day was around 1600, so I'm relatively confident that calculator is pretty accurate. Close enough, anyway.

    sedentary is 1.2 x BMR

    My fitbit is fairly accurate with my TDEE...in fact over time I've found it slightly underestimates my activity level - so I am happy to allow it to automatically adjust my activity and eat back the calories

    I log workouts separately using my HRM / experience

    Fitbits learn your movements over time - so after a month continuous wear will be more accurate than later - also you would need to synch it after midnight to get the true calorie burn

    I don't like any of the wristband HR monitors that are 24 hour wearables - people put too much belief in the calorie conversion when that's not what the HRM does under most circumstances

    2 weeks is not an appropriate timescale - you would need 6-8 weeks data to see what your body is doing over time to allow smoothing out of weekly / daily fluctuations

  • Rumik
    Rumik Posts: 86 Member
    edited February 2016
    Sedentary is 1.2 according to the formulas MFP uses. But if those formulas are flawed, as the linked calculator above suggests (and which I have found in my own experience to be true) then MFP is overestimating the TDEE it gives you.

    You might also want to check this video out. It's a real eye opener https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mUejI-P_ZU
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    PS at 123lbs and age 25 Scooby would put a sedentary TDEE at 1770 and your BMR at 1474 ...

    but if you have been doing this for a while you must have your own data - so I'd rely on that

    if not - give it 8 weeks and judge your personal tdee from your stats - sites like Trendweight.com can be very useful for this (or apps like Happy Scale and Libra) also EvgeniZyntx has an amazing spreadsheet you can download - check out his profile the link is in there
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    edited February 2016
    Rumik wrote: »
    Sedentary is 1.2 according to the formulas MFP uses. But if those formulas are flawed, as the linked calculator above suggests (and which I have found in my own experience to be true) then MFP is overestimating the TDEE it gives you.

    You might also want to check this video out. It's a real eye opener https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mUejI-P_ZU

    I will certainly watch it but from my experience and with personal data spanning 2 years MFP underestimates if anything

    They are all just estimates so it's best to build your own data and use them as starting points

    Oh I have no interest in 24 hour HRM wearables ...I believe they are the Emporer's New Clothes of the fitness gadget market ...I'm happy with my basic zip and overlay of a polar chest strap HRM for specific workouts
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 14,303 Member
    edited February 2016
    While you've taken some pains to research several issues, your research is incomplete.

    A quick look through the MET tables will show you that most "sedentary" awake activities are actually MET 1.3.
    A quick look through other sources than the one you picked will show you that most consider a sedentary multiplier to be at last 1.2

    MFP is set to 1.25 for sedentary AND adds exercise calories on top.

    Regardless of that setting, unless you are active less than 35 minutes/3500 steps a day your activity level will push your TDEE beyond this, earning you a positive adjustment beyond that point.

    Your research on the Fitbit Charge HR (30% overage) is interesting in that it directly contradicts the experience of several people on this site who have collectively used the Charge HR for a while now and found it to be generally accurate.

    If you really need to know the exact scoop, Fitbit under-rewards you when you are not moving (by assigning straight BMR) and over-rewards you when you are moving. Depending on your individual patterns you will end up at a wash, under-estimated or over-estimated. The vast majority of people end up close enough!

    For me, based on 5 DXA scans and 1.1 years of use, the Charge HR has ranged from being out 0.5% to 5.5%, at various points of time in my weight loss. This assumes that my logging of Calories In was 100% accurate. While my logging much more meticulous than that of many people, it is NOT perfect. Still, a maximum error of 5.5% is no-where near 30%....

    You are complicating your life WAY more than you have to. And you are trying to find absolute numbers in things that are basically estimates.

    AND YOU DON'T NEED TO DO ALL THIS IN ORDER TO SUCCEED!

    Seriously: stop lying to the various apps devices and trying to micromanage them.

    You would be much better off leaving everything at default and just calculating an adjustment based on your actual experience!

    Set yourself to ANY activity level: RANDOM (but it works better and creates smaller daily adjustments if you actually pick your correct activity level).

    Connect your Charge HR and enable negative adjustments.

    Eat to your MFP food level to lose -250 Cal a day. At the absolute max set to -500. If you are really at the low fat % level you claim to be, anything steeper will have you burning through lean mass un-necessarily.

    Setup a free trendweight.com account. Connect your Fitbit.com account to trendweight.com.

    Every few weeks (suggested timeframe 30 days), compare your logged MFP-Fitbit deficits to your results from trendweight.com

    Adjust if you need to.

    Simple.
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    edited February 2016
    Interesting but not unexpected

    The steady state cardio they are using to compare there under test conditions is exactly what HRM to calorie conversion is based on

    My issues with 24 hour wearables is that is not an accurate conversion for any HR increase...but only under the specific steady state cardio at specific intensity levels shown in that video ..so fine if used for athletic performance but not for calories

    I like the "just step counting" wearables and believe most people should be encouraged to downgrade / get just the pedometer versions

    It seems they reach the same conclusions ...personal data trumps initial calculator estimates
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    Hey @PAV8888 :)

    Where's the 1.25 multiple ...I always thought it was 1.2 ....immaterial to me of course, but interesting
  • WaterBunnie
    WaterBunnie Posts: 1,371 Member
    I find my Charge HR adjustments are now about 200+ calories more than my One would have given me for the same day. If I ate it all back I'd be reducing my deficit so I too would go back to my One if this broke.
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