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Meat Eater, Vegetarian or Vegan?
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salembambi wrote: »
I'd say you were my hero...but then we'd have to be enemies. So... frenemies?0 -
It's easier to lose weight if you're vegetarian rather than vegan, but both are tough! You simply have too much difficulty losing weight while remaining healthy!0
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I should have mentioned that neither is impossible, but the balancing act between weight and optimum health is tough! What I'm saying is: granted there are legumes, and other non-meat sources of protein, but they are incomplete amino acids; so you have to eat more of them to equal the amino acids in, say, a portion of chicken.
I realize that you may not have a choice in your diet, in which case eggs, milk, yogurt and kefir are the non-meat sources I use!0 -
Ovo-lacto pescatarian. I no longer eat any meat but fish, but I do drink milk and eat eggs. Easier to get protein that way, and I like it. Meat (especially red meat or a large quantity of any meat) makes me feel physically ill and lethargic so keeping to this isn't difficult.0
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I should have mentioned that neither is impossible, but the balancing act between weight and optimum health is tough! What I'm saying is: granted there are legumes, and other non-meat sources of protein, but they are incomplete amino acids; so you have to eat more of them to equal the amino acids in, say, a portion of chicken.
I realize that you may not have a choice in your diet, in which case eggs, milk, yogurt and kefir are the non-meat sources I use!
Soy is complete.
The idea of complete protein is a bit of a misnomer. Plants all have the same amino acids are animals, though some parts of some plants might be low in some amino acids - wheat gluten is a specific wheat protein that is used as a meat substitute that seems to lack trytophan, but the whole protein content of wheat as a plant contains all the essential amino acids. If you are getting very high amounts of protein, the limiting amino acids will generally be taken care of. Your body doesn't need access to all amino acids in one sitting to utilize them, you do buffer some - more like a 24 hour window or so at worse.
Soy has an amino acid profile not that far removed from whey or casein, often considered the ideal animal product proteins. I'm not even vegetarian but I tend to eat a lot of soy protein because it is of such quality, with lower cost than animal protein sources.0 -
That's fine! You just don't get the necessary protein from legumes alone. Or rather you have to choose between losing weight or being as healthy as you can be!0
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I haven't had to choose. The last time I had a check up....my doctor did comprehensive testing and I received an A++ across the board. I lost 60 lbs. Trained for a half marathon and continued to focus on my fitness and health. No reason to choose here.
Good job, then!0 -
It is really difficult to be vegan, and I think it isn't for everyone. I think some people will feel great on it but for some people it just doesn't work for them. I really loved the idea of becoming a vegan. My diet was plants, fruits, legumes, grains, nuts (I don't eat soy or gluten). I tried for about a month and I felt awful, my energy was very low but at same time my calorie intake was very high because I was trying to eat more food to help with my energy.
I came to the conclusion that my body requires more protein and it is really hard to get enough protein while at the same time maintaining your calorie goal on a vegan diet. For example to get the same # of protein out of legumes as I would with chicken, I would have to increase the amount of legumes which would lead to eating more calories than I would've eaten if I had chicken. Also increasing my intake of so much fiber and legumes in order to get that protein led to digestive issues and bloating.
At the time I really wanted veganism to work for me, but I now take it as an early sign my body was giving me that I need to be an omnivore.
I have a feeling a vegan diet works for those that include soy, but I can't eat it.
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It's easier to lose weight if you're vegetarian rather than vegan, but both are tough! You simply have too much difficulty losing weight while remaining healthy!
I have a friend who recently switched from vegetarian to vegan (after experimenting with vegan for periods in the past -- we both did a vegan Lent a while back), and while she would argue it was easy to gain or lose on either, she tended to be overweight when vegetarian and finds that it's easier not to overeat when vegan because most of her high cal foods were cheese related or restaurant desserts (which are rarely vegan). Obviously that could change as she adjusts.
What she said is similar to my experience, though. I never try to lose weight during Lent and usually go vegetarian (not this year) and usually don't lose weight. The one time I went vegan (for Lent and then again for a while after) weight seemed to fall off even though I wasn't trying to lose (I was also pretty active at the time).
It probably depends on where your excess calories tend to come from. I'm not really someone who overeats starches.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
I have a friend who recently switched from vegetarian to vegan (after experimenting with vegan for periods in the past -- we both did a vegan Lent a while back), and while she would argue it was easy to gain or lose on either, she tended to be overweight when vegetarian and finds that it's easier not to overeat when vegan because most of her high cal foods were cheese related or restaurant desserts (which are rarely vegan). Obviously that could change as she adjusts.
What she said is similar to my experience, though. I never try to lose weight during Lent and usually go vegetarian (not this year) and usually don't lose weight. The one time I went vegan (for Lent and then again for a while after) weight seemed to fall off even though I wasn't trying to lose (I was also pretty active at the time).
It probably depends on where your excess calories tend to come from. I'm not really someone who overeats starches.
I would agree that this was a similar experience to what I had during my conversion. It didn't take me very long to find other, high calorie foods that I could over indulge in, though. In my experience, it's entirely just as easy to gain weight once the initial conversion period (which I refer to as the "what the hell can I even eat" period).
Once I got past the hurdle of not having a clue what to put in my face, it was all to easy to find entirely new (or substitutions) for all of my comfort foods. So, yeah I lost weight for a few weeks/months... but it quickly turned around as I learned more about myself and food in general. I went from being overweight, to slightly less overweight, to right back where I started as my journey progressed. It wasn't until I started an actual effort to lose weight/fat that I turned it around. Simple "going vegan" wasn't enough to accomplish that without intentional effort.0 -
I'm a meat eater turned part time veg aka I'm married to a lacto-ovo vegetarian so only eat meat when my wife is away or I'm working and even then it's very little meat. I use meat replacements and eggs and plant sources for my protein needs. This generally pushes up my carb intact but not hugely. My main thought process is less carbs more protein so avoid pasta as much as possible and my wife grows our veg that I then cook.0
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SamiHearken wrote: »I'm a meat eater turned part time veg aka I'm married to a lacto-ovo vegetarian so only eat meat when my wife is away or I'm working and even then it's very little meat. I use meat replacements and eggs and plant sources for my protein needs. This generally pushes up my carb intact but not hugely. My main thought process is less carbs more protein so avoid pasta as much as possible and my wife grows our veg that I then cook.
That's pretty much our situation, too! The Hubster eats veggie at home and gets whatever he wants when we've gone out. He could eat meat in the house if he wanted to, but opts not to.0 -
I tried the vegan thing but a lot of vegan foods are loaded with sodium. Switched to pescatarian0
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I have a red meat intolerance (9 years of no red meat) so I pretty much just eat birds and fish (occasionally some lamb because I can, but rarely). I pick the vegetarian option if I'm going to an event because it's safer and I cook a lot of vegetarian food. I've had blood tests done every 6 months-1 year since I was diagnosed and my nutrition has always been perfect (except for one time when i was told I actually needed to increase my salt intake lol). Beef and pork are the worst for you and the worst for the environment so I'd highly recommend. Also, turkey burgers are the best.
TL/DR: try low-lean-meat0 -
I'm vegetarian for 16 months and vegan for 9 months. My motivation didn't have anything to do with health but I notice that I get sick less often (could be a coincidence but this is the first time in years I haven't been sick around september and december), my skin is better and most importantly, my headaches that used to kill me are gone.0
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I think either can be fine. Although ALL of those still should be well informed about how to combine their foods to have all the nutrients they need. There's plenty of meat eaters that are sick due to a completely screwed up nutrient intake and I do find it interesting that the debate about vegetarians and vegans 'lacking' because of their diet is much larger.
I personally do eat meat, but I don't like to eat meat every day and I greatly value to check out where the meat is from. I tend to mark myself as vegetarian when I buy plane tickets, because I have no idea what and where from the meat will be in those frozen microwave dishes they give out.
If I travel to a country where they do a lot of bio engeneering or have lax laws about stuffing their livestock with antibiotic laced food, I still don't completely deny all meat, simply because I do like trying what local people eat. But I will eat significantly less than in countries with proper laws.
I know that topic is worth a whole other thread, probably. But well, to me this has a great influence to what kind of food I eat.
I also have to admit that if I would have to kill the animals myself in order to get meat. I'm pretty sure I would turn into a vegetarian. I do leech off the consumer society when it comes to that point.0 -
I was a vegetarian for a while but unfortunately was forced to stop because of my various health issues (I had these issues before going on a vegetarian diet btw). I can't have gluten, soy, most dairy, and a few other things. I really wanted to transition to becoming a vegan but my health issues took that option away. The diet I am on now has been very helpful in relieving my symptoms though. The closest diet I can make a comparison to it is the Primal diet. I stopped taking steroids because I no longer itch constantly because of the absence of wheat in my diet. Some people are on these diets (gluten free, vegan, vegetarian, paleo, and primal) because of some kind of health related issue.0
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jmbmilholland wrote: »
The eggs are not the problem. Your hens are mortal. When you replace them you will need to allow a clutch of eggs to be fertilized. They will hatch. 50% can become replacement layers but 50% will be roosters. You will need to kill them cage them or let them kill each other and the hens while you are at it because some are hen killers. Most of your hens likely had a brother that died. To a vegan that blood is still on your hands because you paid support to that system.
All chickens die. As with the previous poster to which I replied you seem to be talking about common large scale commercial chicken raising practices, which I get. But not supporting those who humanely raise chickens for egg or meat proliferates the large scale commercial practices. Some say I'm not eating any eggs because these people mistreat chickens to get eggs. Others say I'm going to support those who do it humanely. One helps ensure those that raise chickens humanely can continue to do so, one does not.1 -
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Those who do it "humanely"....what are they doing with the male chicks??? While using local farms that treat the chickens well is a step in the right direction IMO...it isn't exactly cruelty free if one does not know the answer to that question.
Full disclosure. I currently eat eggs. It is my goal to become vegan, but I am not there yet. However the issue of the destruction of male chicks in the process of produce hens for eggs is one of the main reasons. Right now I source where my eggs come from and feel as I said above, it is a step in the right direction, but if I want to eat a cruelty free diet, it is not the final step.
It varies. Let the male chicks grow to adulthood then eat them. Some are kept as protectors for the hens or as pets. Sell them or give them away. It's pretty easy to get a free rooster since some city ordinances prohibit raising them. Some may kill them, but I doubt that's common in small scale farming. Seems like a waste.0 -
So by one means or another, the extra males are being killed.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
It varies. Let the male chicks grow to adulthood then eat them. Some are kept as protectors for the hens or as pets. Sell them or give them away. It's pretty easy to get a free rooster since some city ordinances prohibit raising them. Some may kill them, but I doubt that's common in small scale farming. Seems like a waste.
The idea you're trying to tease out is the idea that enough clean hands eventually clean a dirty deed - similar to saying if you bought stolen property, it becomes okay, so long as it has been sold enough times since the original theft.
No matter how the one person raising chickens does, somewhere in the chain there is a requirement for large numbers of roosters being disposed of.
About the only way one could begin to approach doing it cleanly from a vegan moral standpoint would probably be to use some kind of sex selecting in vitro fertilization so that the extra males aren't created in the first place.
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So by one means or another, the extra males are being killed.
The idea you're trying to tease out is the idea that enough clean hands eventually clean a dirty deed - similar to saying if you bought stolen property, it becomes okay, so long as it has been sold enough times since the original theft.
No matter how the one person raising chickens does, somewhere in the chain there is a requirement for large numbers of roosters being disposed of.
About the only way one could begin to approach doing it cleanly from a vegan moral standpoint would probably be to use some kind of sex selecting in vitro fertilization so that the extra males aren't created in the first place.
That seems completely silly to me. Are vegans against owning purebread animals as pets because of mistreatment in puppy mills? Are they against eating plants and food made from plants that are grown at the detriment to animals (deforestation, for example)? Is there a food industry practice for which all hands are clean?
By one means or another all chickens will die.1 -
I'd say a number of vegans (sorry if I seem to speak for others - I'm not even a full time vegetarian) do disapprove of purebreeding practices in animals, not just because puppy mill exist, but also because they discourage people from adopting the already excessive pet population that exist at shelters, and because purebreeding causes suffering from the inbred genetic traits some lines cause.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
That seems completely silly to me. Are vegans against owning purebread animals as pets because of mistreatment in puppy mills? Are they against eating plants and food made from plants that are grown at the detriment to animals (deforestation, for example)? Is there a food industry practice for which all hands are clean?
By one means or another all chickens will die.
I'd venture many vegans do prefer their food come from sources that don't cause deforestation where possible. I'd say that is one of the points of veganism - reduced farm land usage by directly consuming plants instead of growing plants to feed to animals.
I don't think vegans claim to be perfect. Obviously almost any food one buys commercially is going to involve destroying insects, rodents, and other pests. It doesn't mean one lets the perfect be the enemy of the good.0 -
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What seems silly to you is an ethical choice by another to eat humanely.
Seems more arbitrary than ethical.0 -
One could say the same about someone giving money to a homeless person on the street instead of mailing the money to an entire starving village in another country. I'd just say giving is ethical, and be concerned about animal welfare is ethical. The arbitrary comes in from believing the ethics are meant to be imposed on others, so that someone might force you to not give money to a homeless person, or might show up to take your chickens, which most people aren't really interested in doing to anyone.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Seems more arbitrary than ethical.0 -
One could say the same about someone giving money to a homeless person on the street instead of mailing the money to an entire starving village in another country. I'd just say giving is ethical, and be concerned about animal welfare is ethical. The arbitrary comes in from believing the ethics are meant to be imposed on others, so that someone might force you to not give money to a homeless person, or might show up to take your chickens, which most people aren't really interested in doing to anyone.
Would it make sense or be ethical not to give the homeless person money because a whole village is starving elsewhere?0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Would it make sense or be ethical not to give the homeless person money because a whole village is starving elsewhere?
It is for an individual to decide. I'm not complaining about a person who gives to either, just as I'm not complaining about a vegetarian that does or does not avoid small scale, ethically treated chicken eggs. I still consider both givings a moral good but not necessity, and I consider both the vegan and egg eating vegetarian as doing a moral good but not necessity. They all make enough sense to me as something worth a person doing if it is what they want to do. Since none of them involve someone forcing another person to do the same, I don't see why anyone else needs to see it as something needing to be justified as a moral outlook for one's self.0
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