Sugar tax to be imposed in UK
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to be fair I don't see anyone getting sick, overweight, or malnourished with the above NHS guidelines. And anyway, the human body is pretty amazing at getting by on all kinds of limited and unusual diets. The americas were discovered by a crew eating nothing more than salted meats, biscuits, and grog.0
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People act like eating sugar is a modern issue. Has anyone read about the sugar consumption of Queen Elizabeth I, her teeth were said to be black from eating so much sugar. Sugar was quite popular in that era. Even during the American revolution sugar was a black market item and sold buy privateers. They were not over weight. People now sit on their backsides way too much and eat fast food daily and this is what is a big issue with over weight. Kids need to get out and play and have parents that cook real food, then they would be thinner.0
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I think everyone knows they need to eat less to lose weight, but few are interested in doing it.
Many of the things you cite are just defensive stuff about why they aren't doing it. I really don't think there's anyone who honestly thinks sugary fizzy drinks are an essential part of nutrition and beneficial to weight loss, to be honest, but apparently we need a tax to signal this ?
The halo of health around fruit is unhelpful, as is Weight-Watchers "free foods" concept and the like, but my local library has a display of diet books and following any one of them would get results.
Okay. We simply disagree on whether people are educated enough.
But I've thought the tax was silly from the beginning of my posting in this thread.
That last paragraph threw me. I'm not sure what you were trying to convey with it.
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TechOutside wrote: »I, as an "American" (emphasis added for sarcasm of the previous posts) am 50 now, but 45 years ago, we had every single one of the same greasy fast food chain restaurants nearby, it was affordable, we had access to everything they have today, but we only went occasionally. It was a special treat to go on the weekend, or when the parents worked too late.
None of this is new, none of the sugar content is new. Sugar isn't suddenly found to be bad, where all of us were just stupid and the new generation is so much smarter...A Pepsi then, was just as bad for you as it was today. What changed?
Are you saying these foods were available at the same costs and levels? $1 burgers (or whatever the equivalent cost then was), unlimited and free soda refills? I forget if it's just McDonald's, but don't all the drink sizes cost the same now?0 -
Love this topic, by the way. It's been fun reading posts from all you cynics
So now I'm thinking the British government said, aww geez we're short on money. Now what? I know, we'll tax uh... Sugar! We just have to be patient and give it to children's PE for the first couple years and then we get an easy extra 500 mil a year forever. Brilliant!0 -
Lol. If government are claiming it's about tackling obesity how is just taxing sugary drinks going to do it?
Just collect the extra tax money cos we need the extra cash and be honest about it.
I see secondary school kids in the morning eating a bag of crisp or bar of chocolate and a red bull in the morning. If they can't afford the red bull any more they can have the lucozade sport and wash the crisp down
After school it's chicken and chips with a free fizzy drink for 1.99. So if it becomes more expensive drink the fruit juice which won't be taxed. Yes well done we have solved the childhood obesity problem
This obsession we have about sugar is so irritating. Clever advertising and education is needed. And not Jamie Oliver either0 -
So now I'm thinking the British government said, aww geez we're short on money. Now what? I know, we'll tax uh... Sugar! We just have to be patient and give it to children's PE for the first couple years and then we get an easy extra 500 mil a year forever. Brilliant!
I read the spreadsheet and the amount they expect to take declines annually for the three years it's projected. The spend element actually starts before the revenue. But we do have a massive debt, you're right.
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If the tax doesn't have an impact then why does the American Beverage Association, the Corn Refiners Association, McDonald's Corporation and Burger King Holdings Inc spend a fortune on lobbists against the tax? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-03-13/anti-obesity-soda-tax-fails-as-lobbyists-spend-millions-retail0
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I am enjoying the initiatives that the UK is taking to battle obesity. I realize that it comes with its downsides, but it makes my life easier. It's nice being able to buy a can of tomato sauce without tons of high fructose corn syrup. It's nice to be able to choose brown rice or wholegrain pasta without paying twice as much. I am dreading going back home for that reason.0
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punkrockgoth wrote: »I am enjoying the initiatives that the UK is taking to battle obesity. I realize that it comes with its downsides, but it makes my life easier. It's nice being able to buy a can of tomato sauce without tons of high fructose corn syrup. It's nice to be able to choose brown rice or wholegrain pasta without paying twice as much. I am dreading going back home for that reason.
I have never purchased tomato sauce with HFC in it I don't know what brand you buy but I have none of the issues you speak of and I live in Ohio0 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »Lol. If government are claiming it's about tackling obesity how is just taxing sugary drinks going to do it?
Just collect the extra tax money cos we need the extra cash and be honest about it.
I see secondary school kids in the morning eating a bag of crisp or bar of chocolate and a red bull in the morning. If they can't afford the red bull any more they can have the lucozade sport and wash the crisp down
After school it's chicken and chips with a free fizzy drink for 1.99. So if it becomes more expensive drink the fruit juice which won't be taxed. Yes well done we have solved the childhood obesity problem
This obsession we have about sugar is so irritating. Clever advertising and education is needed. And not Jamie Oliver either
Way too true!0 -
punkrockgoth wrote: »I am enjoying the initiatives that the UK is taking to battle obesity. I realize that it comes with its downsides, but it makes my life easier. It's nice being able to buy a can of tomato sauce without tons of high fructose corn syrup. It's nice to be able to choose brown rice or wholegrain pasta without paying twice as much. I am dreading going back home for that reason.
I live in the US and it's no difficulty at all to buy tomato sauce without added HFCS or added sugar (I personally buy plain canned tomatoes instead, as I like to make my own sauce), and brown rice and whole grain pasta are also available for the same price as comparable white options.
People spread so much misinformation, it's annoying.0 -
So now I'm thinking the British government said, aww geez we're short on money. Now what? I know, we'll tax uh... Sugar! We just have to be patient and give it to children's PE for the first couple years and then we get an easy extra 500 mil a year forever. Brilliant!
I read the spreadsheet and the amount they expect to take declines annually for the three years it's projected. The spend element actually starts before the revenue. But we do have a massive debt, you're right.
Looks like it already begins by year three, where all the tax revenue goes into the general bucket to be distributed as determined by the current administration!
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Personally I think people know exactly what to do, but choose not to do it. I don't know if there's a coherent credible message either, as banging on about sugary drinks in the context of a 55% carbohydrate diet seems futile. The obese are more likely to be drinking diet drinks, so it does little for them.
When I became serious about stopping laziness and getting control of my weight, I started by exercising. I did eat less, too, but cutting back portions wasn't entirely enough as I was still consuming too many calories and didn't know of the simple calorie deficit fact. Mostly I kept hearing about appetite suppressants, methods like intermittent fasting, and other diets / ways of eating which at the time all sounded miserable to me. Calorie restriction at that time for me was extreme dietary rigidity, or just plain sadness. It seems like everyone who figures this thing out wants to put it into some sort of meal plan and market it. But what happens if I find none of the food items appealing, or if I don't even know what they are? Anyway, that's all history for me0 -
I work in operating theatres, every 2 weeks we have a dental list where children between the ages of 2 and 10 are having teeth out because of sugar. We took 16 teeth out if a 2 year old! 16!
Obviously, this is not the child's fault, they eat and drink what they are given. I don't know the answer though, like a previous poster said, cigs and booze are taxed ridiculously but people still use them. The information is out there for parents to access, and let's face it, common sense plays a part, we all know from an early age too much sugar rots your teeth.
I think a ban on advertising sugary drinks on children's channels may help. Kids don't see it on TV so don't ask for it.0 -
I work in operating theatres, every 2 weeks we have a dental list where children between the ages of 2 and 10 are having teeth out because of sugar. We took 16 teeth out if a 2 year old! 16!
Obviously, this is not the child's fault, they eat and drink what they are given. I don't know the answer though, like a previous poster said, cigs and booze are taxed ridiculously but people still use them. The information is out there for parents to access, and let's face it, common sense plays a part, we all know from an early age too much sugar rots your teeth.
I think a ban on advertising sugary drinks on children's channels may help. Kids don't see it on TV so don't ask for it.
Letting kids go to bed with a baby bottle is a big offender be it sugary sodas or fruit juices or even chocolate milk. It just ruins their teeth. We call it baby bottle mouth.0 -
Pinkylee77 wrote: »Letting kids go to bed with a baby bottle is a big offender be it sugary sodas or fruit juices or even chocolate milk. It just ruins their teeth. We call it baby bottle mouth.
I've seen this, there can just be 2 black stumps where the 2 front teeth should be. It's sad.0 -
Pinkylee77 wrote: »People act like eating sugar is a modern issue. Has anyone read about the sugar consumption of Queen Elizabeth I, her teeth were said to be black from eating so much sugar. Sugar was quite popular in that era. Even during the American revolution sugar was a black market item and sold buy privateers. They were not over weight. People now sit on their backsides way too much and eat fast food daily and this is what is a big issue with over weight. Kids need to get out and play and have parents that cook real food, then they would be thinner.
Sure there was a problem way back then in Elizabethan times.
"Sugar was quite popular in that era."- Sugar was a luxury item for the noble folk and very expensive.
"They were not over weight"- King Henry the VIII was no twig!
"eat fast food daily" - isn't soda a part of fast food package.
We all sound like sugar drug addicts that are in denial having withdrawal issues. Sugar is the Elephant in the room that no one can see it seems.0 -
Pinkylee77 wrote: »Letting kids go to bed with a baby bottle is a big offender be it sugary sodas or fruit juices or even chocolate milk. It just ruins their teeth. We call it baby bottle mouth.
I've seen this, there can just be 2 black stumps where the 2 front teeth should be. It's sad.
It is sad and it ticks me off when I see it!0 -
6pkdreamer wrote: »Pinkylee77 wrote: »People act like eating sugar is a modern issue. Has anyone read about the sugar consumption of Queen Elizabeth I, her teeth were said to be black from eating so much sugar. Sugar was quite popular in that era. Even during the American revolution sugar was a black market item and sold buy privateers. They were not over weight. People now sit on their backsides way too much and eat fast food daily and this is what is a big issue with over weight. Kids need to get out and play and have parents that cook real food, then they would be thinner.
Sure there was a problem way back then in Elizabethan times.
"Sugar was quite popular in that era."- Sugar was a luxury item for the noble folk and very expensive.
"They were not over weight"- King Henry the VIII was no twig!
"eat fast food daily" - isn't soda a part of fast food package.
Not necessarily -- I expect diet soda is a common beverage, and I don't think anyone gets fast food for the sugar.We all sound like sugar drug addicts that are in denial having withdrawal issues. Sugar is the Elephant in the room that no one can see it seems.
Eh, in that the proposal (which I'm not against -- worth trying as an experiment and we tax all sorts of things) singles out soda, that seems the opposite of true. (Personally I do think soda is a particular problem today for some and probably on a societal level, based on the stats, although I'd say it's cultural, not because of the nature of soda. When I was a kid it was available and yet people exercised much more restraint, because it wasn't yet culturally normal to drink soda constantly, especially for kids.)0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »6pkdreamer wrote: »Pinkylee77 wrote: »People act like eating sugar is a modern issue. Has anyone read about the sugar consumption of Queen Elizabeth I, her teeth were said to be black from eating so much sugar. Sugar was quite popular in that era. Even during the American revolution sugar was a black market item and sold buy privateers. They were not over weight. People now sit on their backsides way too much and eat fast food daily and this is what is a big issue with over weight. Kids need to get out and play and have parents that cook real food, then they would be thinner.
Sure there was a problem way back then in Elizabethan times.
"Sugar was quite popular in that era."- Sugar was a luxury item for the noble folk and very expensive.
"They were not over weight"- King Henry the VIII was no twig!
"eat fast food daily" - isn't soda a part of fast food package.
Not necessarily -- I expect diet soda is a common beverage, and I don't think anyone gets fast food for the sugar.We all sound like sugar drug addicts that are in denial having withdrawal issues. Sugar is the Elephant in the room that no one can see it seems.
Eh, in that the proposal (which I'm not against -- worth trying as an experiment and we tax all sorts of things) singles out soda, that seems the opposite of true. (Personally I do think soda is a particular problem today for some and probably on a societal level, based on the stats, although I'd say it's cultural, not because of the nature of soda. When I was a kid it was available and yet people exercised much more restraint, because it wasn't yet culturally normal to drink soda constantly, especially for kids.)
"soda is a particular problem today for some" And fast becoming a majority. Drinking soda is probably just a sign of a sweet tooth that's becoming the norm.
"I don't think anyone get the fast food for the sugar" Its the combination of the two fat and sugar. Why not offer a bottle of water-probably not a big seller.
"people exercised more restraint" Hard when it comes packaged as a cheap filling meal not to resist and up-sized for smidgen.
"because it wasn't yet culturally normal to drink soda constantly, especially for kids" Definety
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6pkdreamer wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »6pkdreamer wrote: »Pinkylee77 wrote: »People act like eating sugar is a modern issue. Has anyone read about the sugar consumption of Queen Elizabeth I, her teeth were said to be black from eating so much sugar. Sugar was quite popular in that era. Even during the American revolution sugar was a black market item and sold buy privateers. They were not over weight. People now sit on their backsides way too much and eat fast food daily and this is what is a big issue with over weight. Kids need to get out and play and have parents that cook real food, then they would be thinner.
Sure there was a problem way back then in Elizabethan times.
"Sugar was quite popular in that era."- Sugar was a luxury item for the noble folk and very expensive.
"They were not over weight"- King Henry the VIII was no twig!
"eat fast food daily" - isn't soda a part of fast food package.
Not necessarily -- I expect diet soda is a common beverage, and I don't think anyone gets fast food for the sugar.We all sound like sugar drug addicts that are in denial having withdrawal issues. Sugar is the Elephant in the room that no one can see it seems.
Eh, in that the proposal (which I'm not against -- worth trying as an experiment and we tax all sorts of things) singles out soda, that seems the opposite of true. (Personally I do think soda is a particular problem today for some and probably on a societal level, based on the stats, although I'd say it's cultural, not because of the nature of soda. When I was a kid it was available and yet people exercised much more restraint, because it wasn't yet culturally normal to drink soda constantly, especially for kids.)
"soda is a particular problem today for some" And fast becoming a majority. Drinking soda is probably just a sign of a sweet tooth that's becoming the norm.
Nope -- soda is a classic issue of some (at the moment, unfortunately, mostly young people and minorities) who drink a ton and most who drink little, and there's no reason to think the base will increase. I think the key is the cultural ideas that discouraged excess when I was a kid."I don't think anyone get the fast food for the sugar" Its the combination of the two fat and sugar. Why not offer a bottle of water-probably not a big seller.
Water is available and some grab it. I simply don't think the appeal of fast food has a thing to do with sugar. It's salt and fat. I haven't liked fast food for years, so may not be a good example, but when I did soda had nothing to do with it (I could have got it cheaper elsewhere). It was all about fries -- fat and salt. Over Christmas I participated in my parents' fast food preferences, and it had nothing to do with sugar (they drink diet, didn't get soda, get the soda they want from their frig, since cheaper), but enjoy their purchased meal because of meat plus carbs plus salt.
This turns out being not that different from my old Indian food habit (which never involved soda), and isn't from classic fast food but their local burger and fish and chips places (they are in the Portland burbs).0 -
Love this topic, by the way. It's been fun reading posts from all you cynics
So now I'm thinking the British government said, aww geez we're short on money. Now what? I know, we'll tax uh... Sugar! We just have to be patient and give it to children's PE for the first couple years and then we get an easy extra 500 mil a year forever. Brilliant!
This is just wrong. There has been plenty of pressure from outside the government to impose a sugar tax. This isnt like taking money away from the disabled....0
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