Am I getting bad advice from my gym?
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CatherineElizabeth13 wrote: »
I think I'm going to ask his wife when she's next there.
Out of curiosity how will you proceed if she gives you the same advice. The presumption here is she probably disagrees with her husband's advice but that is by no means a given...
Agreed.
Are you tied into a year of training or just a year of gym membership? If it's just mentioned before, you don't need a trainer. There are plenty of form videos and how tos online. Plus, the stronglifts app has videos in it even if you don't ruin that program.
There's also s group here (eat, train, progress) that had a form check thread, so you can video yourself, post, and get feedback on your form.0 -
Of course, you could get her or her husband to show you good form on the basic moves using light weights and then slap on a load of extra plates when they aren't looking
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CatherineElizabeth13 wrote: »CatherineElizabeth13 wrote: »
I think I'm going to ask his wife when she's next there.
Out of curiosity how will you proceed if she gives you the same advice. The presumption here is she probably disagrees with her husband's advice but that is by no means a given...
If she agrees then I will ask her to talk to me about her thought process and ask why the general consensus is that low weights are less effective. I have seen her training other women using high weights low reps, so I assume she disagrees with her husband. If not, hopefully I will gain some I sight into how her clients have such fantastic results
Excellent approach
I think when you take the time to explore and educate yourself then you give yourself the gift of knowledge. No one can take that from you.0 -
... Allow? Because of your sex. I can understand not being "allowed" to use the men's locker room, or not being "allowed" to use the rock wall without supervision or clearance like everybody else. But lifting heavy? What makes him think he can control that?0
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If your gym won't let you do standard gym stuff, find a new gym.0
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CatherineElizabeth13 wrote: »
I think I'm going to ask his wife when she's next there.
Out of curiosity how will you proceed if she gives you the same advice. The presumption here is she probably disagrees with her husband's advice but that is by no means a given...
Agreed.
Are you tied into a year of training or just a year of gym membership? If it's just mentioned before, you don't need a trainer. There are plenty of form videos and how tos online. Plus, the stronglifts app has videos in it even if you don't ruin that program.
There's also s group here (eat, train, progress) that had a form check thread, so you can video yourself, post, and get feedback on your form.
It's just the membership, not a training contract. I'm going to check out some you be tube vids on form. If nothing else, it will make me feel more comfortable lifting at home.0 -
StealthHealth wrote: »CatherineElizabeth13 wrote: »lillemeddy85 wrote: »You don't have to train high weight low rep either. How low is your rep count?
I prefer staying between 12-16 myself, depending on what part of the body I am working.
He insists that 25 reps is what needs to be done.
When I'm at home I use more than double the weight he has listed and do around 12 reps and that seems to make me feel like I've actually done something. But the thing I worry about at home is whether my form is okay.
The fact that you don't seem to like him or trust his advice is enough for you to drop him like a hot brick. I'd get another trainer to advise me on form only.
Yup.
If the gym is convenient, well equipped and within your price range there is no reason to leave it. Just find another trainer who aligns with your goals and preferences.StealthHealth wrote: »CatherineElizabeth13 wrote: »lillemeddy85 wrote: »You don't have to train high weight low rep either. How low is your rep count?
I prefer staying between 12-16 myself, depending on what part of the body I am working.
He insists that 25 reps is what needs to be done.
When I'm at home I use more than double the weight he has listed and do around 12 reps and that seems to make me feel like I've actually done something. But the thing I worry about at home is whether my form is okay.
The fact that you don't seem to like him or trust his advice is enough for you to drop him like a hot brick. I'd get another trainer to advise me on form only.
Yup.
If the gym is convenient, well equipped and within your price range there is no reason to leave it. Just find another trainer who aligns with your goals and preferences.
I agree that there is no reason to leave if the equipment is what she needs, but my guess would be the other trainers at the gym have the same/similar mindset.
I agree with the posters saying to ditch the trainer and follow the books/YouTube. As a newbie, you'll make gains no matter what so long as you stick to it. ANY beginners lifting program will work. I never used a trainer, just books and the web (I started with Body fo Life). I now lift with a weightlifting group and have a coach, but I'm working on technique for the snatch and clean & jerk. Unless you're working on technique, no need for a trainer other than to occasionally see if your form is right.0 -
mjrkearney wrote: »... Allow? Because of your sex. I can understand not being "allowed" to use the men's locker room, or not being "allowed" to use the rock wall without supervision or clearance like everybody else. But lifting heavy? What makes him think he can control that?
This is a very good point. Your contract could probably easily be ripped up on the basis of sexual discrimination. Unless it clearly states on what you signed that "women are only allowed to use the little weights" he has no grounds to suddenly declare what you can or can't used based on his personal view.
Look up SL5x5. Start light because you have to and work you way up on the weights. Go slow, get your form down first and progress as the plan says.
Ignore the ignorant fool!0 -
Having thought about it since posting. I think the reason he refuses to allow women to heavy lift is because they have "kindly" created a WOMEN'S ONLY weight section full of barbie bells and even a low weight barbell0
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CatherineElizabeth13 wrote: »StealthHealth wrote: »CatherineElizabeth13 wrote: »lillemeddy85 wrote: »You don't have to train high weight low rep either. How low is your rep count?
I prefer staying between 12-16 myself, depending on what part of the body I am working.
He insists that 25 reps is what needs to be done.
When I'm at home I use more than double the weight he has listed and do around 12 reps and that seems to make me feel like I've actually done something. But the thing I worry about at home is whether my form is okay.
The fact that you don't seem to like him or trust his advice is enough for you to drop him like a hot brick. I'd get another trainer to advise me on form only.
I think I'm going to ask his wife when she's next there. I'm tied in for a year contract so I have to make the best of it! I did speak to another trainer about form but he gave me a 30 second walk through, without weights, just showing me arm movements then went back to chatting up something on tinder. He's known for not acknowledging anyone over 130lbs.
Don't. Why antagonize a situation? You knew what you wanted to do far before making this post so just do it and leave the dude to his outdated training. He's told you his point of view, you've told him yours. Rubbing his nose in it through his wife is poor form. This feels like a pointless, "Haha! I told you, you stupid head," but this whole story has an odd feeling to it...0 -
It seems no one can ask advice anymore without someone saying the poster is being antagonistic or the post seems dodgy
I'm new to lifting. I wanted advice to get the most out f my sessions. It's confusing when a weight loss community say one thing and a qualified trainer says another. I just wanted opinions.0 -
CatherineElizabeth13 wrote: »Having thought about it since posting. I think the reason he refuses to allow women to heavy lift is because they have "kindly" created a WOMEN'S ONLY weight section full of barbie bells and even a low weight barbell
How does he stop women from lifting heavy? As in he won't train them to lift heavy or actually bans you / kicks your out for using the heavy stuff?0 -
CatherineElizabeth13 wrote: »It seems no one can ask advice anymore without someone saying the poster is being antagonistic or the post seems dodgy
I'm new to lifting. I wanted advice to get the most out f my sessions. It's confusing when a weight loss community say one thing and a qualified trainer says another. I just wanted opinions.
You asked good questions in a straight forward way. Nothing wrong with that. I have no doubt you can express yourself clearly and well in person too. Don't sweat it.0 -
He won't let? Yeah, find a new gym.0
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CatherineElizabeth13 wrote: »It seems no one can ask advice anymore without someone saying the poster is being antagonistic or the post seems dodgy
I'm new to lifting. I wanted advice to get the most out f my sessions. It's confusing when a weight loss community say one thing and a qualified trainer says another. I just wanted opinions.
You got great advice.
And I advised you not to put a wife against a husband. You don't have to take it. I just don't see the point. Go to the wife for advice but you already made it clear that you cannot afford her.0 -
CatherineElizabeth13 wrote: »He told me he absolutely won't allow me to do high weight low reps as women should only do low weight high rep.
I would like to hear peoples thoughts.
Won't allow you? Find a new gym.........
The decision to go low weight / high rep or high weight / low rep depends entirely on your personal goals and preferences.
As a runner who uses strength training more as a tool to address muscular imbalances, boost injury resistance and improve endurance I favour lower weight / higher reps for me (but I'm also not talking about 5lb dumbbells either.....)
For someone looking to become stronger and improve body composition higher weight / lower reps is the way to go (and there's absolutely no reason why women can't benefit from this...........even if you have some weight to lose)
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well, you most definitely seem to have some misconceptions and i'm wondering if you're really relaying his information properly.
If he DID say that women should never work out in that manner, then yes, he's an idiot. But really, the answer is women shouldn't have to train any differently from men.
HOWEVER, if you are someone who is very overweight, a beginner, or deconditioned, I also don't recommend you begin just lifting heavy weights. This is an injury waiting to happen. You should begin performing RESISTANCE exercises now. Not "strength", "heavy lifting", etc.
Your exercise routine should be tailored to your current capabilities. It should be progressive and periodized. While one person may be capable of starting with either hypertrophy or maximal strength training, that doesn't mean that you are.
So to your statement that women "must lift heavy" "should lift heavy" and "should lift heavy NOW"? That's not true in every circumstance and it's ludicrous to suggest that. Especially for " for woman as overweight as myself ".
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He insists that 25 reps is what needs to be done.
When I'm at home I use more than double the weight he has listed and do around 12 reps and that seems to make me feel like I've actually done something. But the thing I worry about at home is whether my form is okay.
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Go to a thrift store and buy a big mirror and set it against the wall where you are working at home. Turn on youtube and watch that and yourself. You don't need for advice from an uberdouche anyways.0 -
CatherineElizabeth13 wrote: »Everything I've read on here and online in general suggests that women should heavy lift.
The advice for woman as overweight as myself seem to be to lift heavy from the start, don't wait until you're close goal weight as it will help to prevent muscle loss through deficit eating and help with skin sagging.
Am I right so far?
So I had a discussion with the guy who owns my gym (his wife is a champion body builder). He told me he absolutely won't allow me to do high weight low reps as women should only do low weight high rep.
To me it seems a bit counter productive based on what I've read on here. And I'm not sure his wife would agree with his thinking on women lifting.
I would like to hear peoples thoughts.
First of all, since when does the gym owner have any say on what you do as long as it is not damaging equipment or blatantly dangerous (that is, something even "men" shouldn't be doing). I agree with others, if he is going to be a horses behind about this, go to another gym.0 -
Like another poster said, find which you prefer and devote yourself to doing that. Form can sometimes be tricky to figure out but there are plenty of youtube videos on form. You can also video yourself to see how you are progressing.
I remember when I first joined a gym and didn't know anything. I had no confidence in my own opinion. I think that confidence is what you're mostly lacking now and that will come with time and experience. In the meantime, if you want to lift heavy, lift heavy. Teach yourself to do it. The best thing for weight loss and general health and fitness is finding something you love to do and you will continue to do it. Forcing yourself to do something you just aren't into doing is a recipe for a short lived endeavor.
Clearly the general attitude of the gym owner is quite poor. I wouldn't consult him in the future on his opinions.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »
If he DID say that women should never work out in that manner, then yes, he's an idiot. But really, the answer is women shouldn't have to train any differently from men.
He did say women shouldn't lift heavy. Then referred to the New Rules of Weight Lifting for Women as "feminism gone wild".
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CatherineElizabeth13 wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »
If he DID say that women should never work out in that manner, then yes, he's an idiot. But really, the answer is women shouldn't have to train any differently from men.
He did say women shouldn't lift heavy. Then referred to the New Rules of Weight Lifting for Women as "feminism gone wild".
then he's an idiot.
Regardless, my point still stands that you should begin RESISTANCE training (in general), now. Not necessarily "heavy lifting".0 -
CatherineElizabeth13 wrote: »Having thought about it since posting. I think the reason he refuses to allow women to heavy lift is because they have "kindly" created a WOMEN'S ONLY weight section full of barbie bells and even a low weight barbell
Ha, yeah, that makes me think he's worried about having another lifter in "his side of the gym". F him. And if he tries to kick you out, ask him to point out in the contract you sign where you're prohibited from using certain gym equipment.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »CatherineElizabeth13 wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »
Regardless, my point still stands that you should begin RESISTANCE training (in general), now. Not necessarily "heavy lifting".
I disagree.
Heavy is a relative term. She doesn't need to do one max reps or even 50% of max. She'll figure that out with continued study and practice.
We already know she can lift because she's lifting at home. If she couldn't lift, didn't have the strength, then yes, body weight or so-called "resistance" training might be appropriate, but that's not the case here.
In my opinion this is just about learning safe form.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »CatherineElizabeth13 wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »
If he DID say that women should never work out in that manner, then yes, he's an idiot. But really, the answer is women shouldn't have to train any differently from men.
He did say women shouldn't lift heavy. Then referred to the New Rules of Weight Lifting for Women as "feminism gone wild".
then he's an idiot.
Regardless, my point still stands that you should begin RESISTANCE training (in general), now. Not necessarily "heavy lifting".
The point isn't correct though. SL 5x5 starts you with just the bar and slowly builds up to heavy lifting. There is zero, non-medical reason, why you can't start lift straight away.
You will be starting with little to no weight but that is the idea. You learn form before adding weight.
When people say start heavy lifting, they don't usually mean, go and whack your body weight on the bar and have a go at squating it or benching as much as humanly possible from the get go.0 -
His wife is a champion bodybuilder but he doesn't think women should lift heavy? That makes a lot of sense.
I agree with the first person - find a new gym.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »CatherineElizabeth13 wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »
If he DID say that women should never work out in that manner, then yes, he's an idiot. But really, the answer is women shouldn't have to train any differently from men.
He did say women shouldn't lift heavy. Then referred to the New Rules of Weight Lifting for Women as "feminism gone wild".
then he's an idiot.
Regardless, my point still stands that you should begin RESISTANCE training (in general), now. Not necessarily "heavy lifting".
Yeah, he's an idiot. I agree with Rainbowbow, it makes sense to start out with resistance training and proper form before you go to heavy lifting.0 -
Does this gym have a website? I'm dying to look into it...I need something to giggle at today.0
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Regardless, my point still stands that you should begin RESISTANCE training (in general), now. Not necessarily "heavy lifting".
I disagree.
Heavy is a relative term. She doesn't need to do one max reps or even 50% of max. She'll figure that out with continued study and practice.
We already know she can lift because she's lifting at home. If she couldn't lift, didn't have the strength, then yes, body weight or so-called "resistance" training might be appropriate, but that's not the case here.
In my opinion this is just about learning safe form.
Of course heavy is a relative term (?). But lifting heavy often refers to lifting in a certain repetition range (i.e. max strength, or even the hypertrophy range depending on who you're talking to).
As to your comment about 50% of max (?), here's a handy guide you can use to understand what i'm talking about and get a general idea of the different acute variables people can use when training.- Endurance training is the rep range 12-20+. This is generally performed at 60-70% of your 1 RM. This is also performed with pretty low volume of 1-3 sets and a slow tempo. Rest periods fall within the 0-90 second range.
- Hypertrophy training is the rep range 6-12. This is generally performed at 75-85% of your 1RM. This is performed with higher volume 3-5 sets and a moderate tempo. Rest periods fall within the 0-60 second range.
- Maximal Strength training is the rep range 1-5 sets with a volume of 4-6 sets. Intensity is 85%-100% of your 1RM. This training requires much longer rest periods (3-5 minutes) between sets.
- Power training is the rep range 1-10 at 30-45% of your 1RM or less than 10% of your total body weight. It's high volume with 3-6 sets and a fast/explosive tempo. This training also requires a much longer rest period of 3-5 minutes.
I don't know why you said "so called body weight/resistance". Resistance training is any exercise that causes the muscles to contract against an external resistance. The external resistance can be dumbbells, barbells, tubing, cables, machines, your own body weight, etc.
I was advising her that she needs to be performing resistance exercise in general. She may not be ready to be lifting in the max strength rep ranges, especially if she is overweight and deconditioned as i stated. My advice was that she needs to begin resistance training and start a progressive and periodized plan, which should be tailored to her current physical capabilities.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »CatherineElizabeth13 wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »
If he DID say that women should never work out in that manner, then yes, he's an idiot. But really, the answer is women shouldn't have to train any differently from men.
He did say women shouldn't lift heavy. Then referred to the New Rules of Weight Lifting for Women as "feminism gone wild".
then he's an idiot.
Regardless, my point still stands that you should begin RESISTANCE training (in general), now. Not necessarily "heavy lifting".
The point isn't correct though. SL 5x5 starts you with just the bar and slowly builds up to heavy lifting. There is zero, non-medical reason, why you can't start lift straight away.
You will be starting with little to no weight but that is the idea. You learn form before adding weight.
When people say start heavy lifting, they don't usually mean, go and whack your body weight on the bar and have a go at squating it or benching as much as humanly possible from the get go.
How are you defining "heavy lifting"? I am inclined to agree with the other poster (and yes, much of that is because I made the same point earlier on in the thread...)
5x5 is an excellent routine if the trainee is looking to target neural strength and some power but not necessarily hypertrophy. If the trainee wishes to target other adaptations they will use different rep ranges and so on.
When most exercisers (rather than more specialised exercisers) say heavy lifting I think what they are really alluding to is in fact some form of resistance training which uses progressive overload. The most common recommendation and I good one as a catch all would be 3x10 in terms of sets/reps. This is because it mixes in some neural and metabolic hypertrophy with some strength as well - jack of all trades as it were.0
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