April 2016 Running Challenge

4/1: Rest day!
4/2: 5 miles
4/3: 13.1 Caesar Rodney HM!
4/4: 3 miles with Joe to Go crew
4/5: Rest day
4/6: 10 miles (am)

A bit difficult to get up and out the door for my midweek long run since we are under a freeze warning this morning... overnight low was 24F (-4 or -5C, I think?) and I was not happy about it. But there was absolutely no wind, so that made it tolerable. I think I expected the cold to be worse than it actually was. I got to try out my winter blowout sale jacket many months earlier than expected, and it kept me nice and toasty!



Upcoming Races:
3/12: Run O' The Mill 5K: New PR! 21:55
4/3: Caesar Rodney HM: New PR! 1:40:13
4/16: River Horse 6K (Ewing, NJ)
5/1: New Jersey Marathon (Lots of towns, NJ)
11/20: Philadelphia Marathon (Philly, PA)

WhatMeRunning wrote: »

About the tendons and ligaments (and I'll add bone strength) taking longer to strengthen I'll proffer the advice I took about being new to running and thinking about future marathon training (or similar type mileage hopes). That advice was to not start marathon training or trying to go over 40 miles per week without having been running regularly for at least one year. The reason for that wait was specifically to build up those parts of the body.

As a general rule, it seems reasonable.

The reality is that some individuals will be ready to run a marathon much earlier. It depends on age, other activity, athletic history, flexibility, prior injury, mobility, weight - personally, I ran my first major race at 22 without a significant history of running. Just for fun.

Today at 49? I'll probably hit 65 km (about 40 miles)/week after 12 months but I certainly think you can do a marathon with less mileage.

All these general rules, they tend to be good guidance not things written in stone.

When I designed hip prosthetics - the typical non-bone ligament injuries we saw where not related to new runners doing too much too early. Outside of old age and car accidents, they tended to be contact sport injuries or exercise overuse injuries in the absence of proper nutrition, cross training, mobility and strength work. If the concern is less injury - work on doing something else too, often and on mobility.

MobyCarp wrote: »

EvgeniZyntx wrote: »

@shanaber and @nicolemarie999 my daughter is 19 and athletic (although 2 years of architecture school have probably killed her endurance) - something like a color run, mud run or a tough mudder is too light.

I'm looking for something equivalent to 7 days of riding across Iowa, which is what her older sister did with me at 16. Push her to some limit and make it memorable 10 years later. The color runs and mud runs are great, it is what I'm planning with her little sisters (11 & 13 - YES 4 girls!) but don't have enough "umph" for us in this search.

So I guess I'm wondering about a multiday run with medium daily mileage. Something like Sandakphu 70 Mile Himalayan Race which is over 4 days (but only has 25 people in it). Or maybe something like the Double Half Mary+5 - 50 kms over 3 days in Nebraska. Nebraska is probably as "out of this world" for her as the Himalayas. Have any of you done these?

Anyway, the discussion has allowed me to refine my thoughts a little. Found a site that has a registered list of almost 300 multi day runs (http://marathons.ahotu.com/calendar/multiday) and we might find our target there.

Thankfully the younger ones still enjoy cycling - so they might eventually do RAGBRAI instead.

My sister did a Double Half Mary in Nebraska a year or two ago, because it was local for her. I don't remember her mentioning a +5, but another 5 miles would make 50 kms. She described it as low volume, and used by a few serious runners to train for the Lincoln Marathon. The courses were out and backs on trails built on old railroad rights of way, one day north of Lincoln and another day south of Lincoln, I forget which was which. The shelters were local taverns that weren't very big. A charming, small community feel type of event. If you're not local, you probably want a motel in Lincoln and count on driving some distance of rural roads each day to get to the race.

If you're talking about a real multiday challenge, I saw a guy on another forum who did a couple of events that were 5 half marathons in 5 days in 5 states, because his bucket list includes running a half in all 50 states. I think one was Dust Bowl - states like OK, TX, AR and I forget which others; the other was some name like High Plains - NE, CO, WY, SD, and I forget whether it was MT or ND. You can probably find them doing a search for nationwide half marathons. Too much travel and logistical overhead for my taste.

Thanks, charming and small community feel is something we got from RAGBRAI (even if it was 5000 cyclists) - loved that feeling. I completely agree, 5 days in 5 states seems like a logistical nightmare unless it is something like 4 corners.

@EvgeniZyntx As a native Iowan, it makes me smile every time you mention RAGBRAI. It's such a great event, and basically a weeklong bike party extravaganza. It's pretty much the only reason I'd want to get into cycling, had I the means (one day!!). Good luck finding a good multi-day race for you and your daughter to complete! Let us know what you settle on!

EvgeniZyntx wrote: »

WhatMeRunning wrote: »

About the tendons and ligaments (and I'll add bone strength) taking longer to strengthen I'll proffer the advice I took about being new to running and thinking about future marathon training (or similar type mileage hopes). That advice was to not start marathon training or trying to go over 40 miles per week without having been running regularly for at least one year. The reason for that wait was specifically to build up those parts of the body.

As a general rule, it seems reasonable.

The reality is that some individuals will be ready to run a marathon much earlier. It depends on age, other activity, athletic history, flexibility, prior injury, mobility, weight - personally, I ran my first major race at 22 without a significant history of running. Just for fun.

Today at 49? I'll probably hit 65 km (about 40 miles)/week after 12 months but I certainly think you can do a marathon with less mileage.

All these general rules, they tend to be good guidance not things written in stone.

When I designed hip prosthetics - the typical non-bone ligament injuries we saw where not related to new runners doing too much too early. Outside of old age and car accidents, they tended to be contact sport injuries or exercise overuse injuries in the absence of proper nutrition, cross training, mobility and strength work. If the concern is less injury - work on doing something else too, often and on mobility.

That makes sense, I agree. I came from a history of no running and sedentary activity for a good decade or more, and never being athletic. So I took that advice to heart figuring it sounded reasonable enough. Plus I had nothing to gauge such progress on!

My sister in law is about to run her first HM this weekend (part of a 39.3 series of 3 HM's) and I was recently wondering if she might get bit by the running bug and go for a full this fall. I wasn't going to offer her that same advice I received because she used to play soccer in high school, running quite a bit for that, and has pretty much used her treadmill pretty regularly, but only for short workouts I think. She did a 5k and next thing you know, she's shooting for a series of 3 HM's. I suspect she could probably handle it.

And perhaps I should be more clear about the kinds of injuries I was concerned about when starting out, and what I would have advised new runners with my completely unproffessional medical opinion. Achilles tendons, stress fractures in feet, knees. Also ITB but in that case it is not running history that will help but strength building.

I'm finding this to be a good discussion and I presume many newer runners reading may be curious.

WhatMeRunning wrote: »

There is a book I am reading called "Ultra Mindset" and this sort of difficulty is part of the authors mantra of "It's all good mental training". The key being that the only way to overcome challenges is to face all challenges and persevere through those difficulties as mentally training for whatever challenges may be ahead. Like next winter.

I think I'll learn to love treadmills next winter..... -10F is just a bit too cold for outdoor running when the wind picks up

WhatMeRunning wrote: »

EvgeniZyntx wrote: »

WhatMeRunning wrote: »

About the tendons and ligaments (and I'll add bone strength) taking longer to strengthen I'll proffer the advice I took about being new to running and thinking about future marathon training (or similar type mileage hopes). That advice was to not start marathon training or trying to go over 40 miles per week without having been running regularly for at least one year. The reason for that wait was specifically to build up those parts of the body.

As a general rule, it seems reasonable.

The reality is that some individuals will be ready to run a marathon much earlier. It depends on age, other activity, athletic history, flexibility, prior injury, mobility, weight - personally, I ran my first major race at 22 without a significant history of running. Just for fun.

Today at 49? I'll probably hit 65 km (about 40 miles)/week after 12 months but I certainly think you can do a marathon with less mileage.

All these general rules, they tend to be good guidance not things written in stone.

When I designed hip prosthetics - the typical non-bone ligament injuries we saw where not related to new runners doing too much too early. Outside of old age and car accidents, they tended to be contact sport injuries or exercise overuse injuries in the absence of proper nutrition, cross training, mobility and strength work. If the concern is less injury - work on doing something else too, often and on mobility.

That makes sense, I agree. I came from a history of no running and sedentary activity for a good decade or more, and never being athletic. So I took that advice to heart figuring it sounded reasonable enough. Plus I had nothing to gauge such progress on!

My sister in law is about to run her first HM this weekend (part of a 39.3 series of 3 HM's) and I was recently wondering if she might get bit by the running bug and go for a full this fall. I wasn't going to offer her that same advice I received because she used to play soccer in high school, running quite a bit for that, and has pretty much used her treadmill pretty regularly, but only for short workouts I think. She did a 5k and next thing you know, she's shooting for a series of 3 HM's. I suspect she could probably handle it.

And perhaps I should be more clear about the kinds of injuries I was concerned about when starting out, and what I would have advised new runners with my completely unproffessional medical opinion. Achilles tendons, stress fractures in feet, knees. Also ITB but in that case it is not running history that will help but strength building.

I'm finding this to be a good discussion and I presume many newer runners reading may be curious.

Let's talk about risk and presentation then.

Stress fractures may occur in the runner that is increasing mileage too quickly - basically these micro breaks that we all have don't have sufficient time to remodel or the remodelling makes them worse. The cause is the stress + environmental factors. And those factors are huge and more important than the physical stress. The highest risk for fractures are menstrual issues, weight loss related caloric restriction, decreased bone density (lighter older individuals), muscle weakness or balance, and physiological issues like gait or leg size differences.

Basically - preventive measures include improved diet in calcium and vitamin D (together), sunlight, leg muscle exercises to strengthen the leg, mobility work, possibly hormonal treatments if concerns exist (both sexes). There is also a triad of conditions in women that often leads to stress fractures - addressing causes of amenorrhea, disordered eating/exercise and osteoporosis can reduce stress fracture risk. Good shoes with proper support can also be helpful.

If they do occur, volume and distance of running might be significantly reduced for 4-6 weeks then restarted. Also consider looking at a specific foot and running mechanics to address gait issues.

Some of the factors like low weight are the opposite of causes for issues in muscle or ligament damage like the knees.

karllundy wrote: »

@EvgeniZyntx - RAGBRAI? Are you in Iowa?

No, I'm in Germany. But I've gone over to do it twice with my brother who lives in Ohio. That's sort of like Iowa, right? 4 letters, 3 vowels and an 'i' and 'o'?

I flew over, my daughter worked on her English and we drove from Ohio with a bunch of friends. Great times!!

kristinegift wrote: »

@EvgeniZyntx As a native Iowan, it makes me smile every time you mention RAGBRAI. It's such a great event, and basically a weeklong bike party extravaganza. It's pretty much the only reason I'd want to get into cycling, had I the means (one day!!). Good luck finding a good multi-day race for you and your daughter to complete! Let us know what you settle on!

It was!! Friendliest people ever!
And since this is the running thread, we even had two runners for a day.

It's a great sport, start cheap, but yeah, it can get expensive!

@_nikkiwolf_ @AdrianChr92 Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate all the suggestions. Probably going for a Banana with some chocolate, just a square.

pcarvalho3 wrote: »

@_nikkiwolf_ @AdrianChr92 Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate all the suggestions. Probably going for a Banana with some chocolate, just a square.

tks also to @shanaber

Thank god the race is at 10am, weather is supposed to be 32F-33F.

http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt/t/wZcOp8J/exercise.png

shanaber wrote: »

@pthyay - Now a days I run 4 days during the week 4-6 miles depending on my schedule and a long run on the weekend. Right now I am running slow to build up base miles and hopefully some speed before my next race in July. Note that most of my gains in distance and time improvements have come since being in this group. I have learned so much from everyone here and they have kept me motivated to keep moving and/or come back from injury. I have run on cobblestones and it is VERY tough on your knees. I also don't like running on cement so where ever possible I run on the asphalt paved street, instead of the cement sidewalk, a paved trail or a dirt trail.

Running on 3 or 4 days a week is one of my goals for when I get better at it - I'm starting with two sessions per week so my legs get a chance to recover from what I'm doing to them (and what I'm doing wrong). I'm hoping to do more soon - until then, I'll be swimming in between as it's easier on the joints. This group seems really cool. Having all the experienced runners around is a bit intimidating, but then they all make you feel like sticking around.

The cobblestone path near my place is great for walking, but I can practically feel the shock that goes through my knee when I take an awkward step while running, plus I'm always in danger of stumbling. I'm trying the lawns next.

WhatMeRunning wrote: »

I'm finding this to be a good discussion and I presume many newer runners reading may be curious.

Very curious! I enjoyed reading along.

Stoshew71 wrote: »

instantmartian wrote: »

I've just read several posts about people running in nice/warm/hot weather, and I just wanted to let you all know that I am super jealous of wherever you live right now. When I woke up at 5:00am, it was 18 degrees F (approximately -8 C). It is now 8:06am, and it is only 19 F. It's supposed to stay pretty much above freezing here by this point in the Spring, but no. Not this year. In contrast, it was in the 70s close to Christmas. I think the weather got a little confused and thinks Pennsylvania became part of the Southern Hemisphere or something.

It looks like there is a possibility that I will be running my 5K Saturday morning in snow and below-freezing temperatures. Not exactly the weather I had in mind for a mid-April race. It's a beer run at Yuengling's original brewery in Pottsville, PA that includes a beer garden and block party. I am certainly not forfeiting my beer, but it makes me wonder how many people will be sticking around after the race this year.

I know that weather must really stink and I don't think it's just PA. I think the entire northeast is effected. Even down here the temps got a little more chilly the last couple of days but not quite as bad as you guys. I had to pull out the long pants and long sleeve this mroning. But after all the training runs in cold weather winter, I would love to have one that ended with lots of Yuengling. lol Makes it worth it. Which one is this? I may have to add it to my list for next year. LOL

I think it is the entire northeast. I follow Northeastern University's men's rowing team (Boston, MA) on Facebook and they posted a bunch of photos yesterday of the guys rowing in the snow. I can't even imagine how awful that must have been!

The race is the Yuengling Light Lager Jogger. This is it's fourth year for the race, and I've done it every year so far. It is quite the challenging 5K - the course is all hills. The race starts and ends at the brewery, and they do free brewery tours Thursday-Saturday (which is a very interesting tour from both an architectural and historical standpoint...plus free beer samples at the end), they have a beer garden, a little block party with food vendors and such, and some bars/restaurants in town have specials and live music all weekend for the event. The people who live along the course are super supportive, and it is a very nice area of Pottsville to run through. It sells out every year, and I believe it's capped at 3,500 runners because of space constraints. It really is a great little race!

EDIT: Oh, and Dick Yuengling is usually hanging around the beer garden for photos and conversation.

instantmartian wrote: »

I've just read several posts about people running in nice/warm/hot weather, and I just wanted to let you all know that I am super jealous of wherever you live right now. When I woke up at 5:00am, it was 18 degrees F (approximately -8 C). It is now 8:06am, and it is only 19 F. It's supposed to stay pretty much above freezing here by this point in the Spring, but no. Not this year. In contrast, it was in the 70s close to Christmas. I think the weather got a little confused and thinks Pennsylvania became part of the Southern Hemisphere or something.

It looks like there is a possibility that I will be running my 5K Saturday morning in snow and below-freezing temperatures. Not exactly the weather I had in mind for a mid-April race. It's a beer run at Yuengling's original brewery in Pottsville, PA that includes a beer garden and block party. I am certainly not forfeiting my beer, but it makes me wonder how many people will be sticking around after the race this year.

I know how you feel! Not quite that cold here this morning, but I did have to pull out my gloves and winter gear. There is an event here this Saturday, the final long training run for the Flying Pig marathon. A local running store and several charities set up a 20 mile route along part of the race course with aid stations, pace groups, etc. and a big party afterward... And it's supposed to snow!! Crazy!

Have fun at the Yuenlgling 5K. That sounds like a blast! Yuengling will always hold a special place in my heart. I was a Penn State grad in the early 90s and State College was one of the only places in the country where you could get Yuengling, so it was always our beer of choice. It was crazy to see it start surfacing in trendy bars when I lived in Atlanta several years later!