Ketosis question
fileshiny
Posts: 149 Member
I've been on a keto diet for a couple of months now, and my total carbs each day don't go over 25g. I do a keto blood test every few days. For a time, I was in optimal ketosis (1.5-3) but now I'm generally at about 1.1 and I don't know why, when my total carbs are so low.
Edited to add for clarity: I'm also very careful on the protein, making sure that I take in a max of 30g per meal, with no more than 90g per day, and my protein intake is no more than 20% of my macros.
I know that a few of you are going to want to direct me to the low-carb forum, but I had a very bad experience with the members there and left that group. I'm hoping that someone here might have some ideas what's happening.
I also know that quite a lot of you are going to want to tell me not to do a low-carb diet for whatever reason, but I urge you to resist telling me what I should do with my diet. I have very reasonable and specific reasons for being on this diet, I am not uninformed, and I am not in need of correction. I don't think that carbs are evil, and I don't think everyone should avoid them, so there's really no need to put me straight.
I appreciate any insight someone might have with my question.
Edited to add for clarity: I'm also very careful on the protein, making sure that I take in a max of 30g per meal, with no more than 90g per day, and my protein intake is no more than 20% of my macros.
I know that a few of you are going to want to direct me to the low-carb forum, but I had a very bad experience with the members there and left that group. I'm hoping that someone here might have some ideas what's happening.
I also know that quite a lot of you are going to want to tell me not to do a low-carb diet for whatever reason, but I urge you to resist telling me what I should do with my diet. I have very reasonable and specific reasons for being on this diet, I am not uninformed, and I am not in need of correction. I don't think that carbs are evil, and I don't think everyone should avoid them, so there's really no need to put me straight.
I appreciate any insight someone might have with my question.
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Replies
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Try three or four days a week doing 20 grams of carbs.
Are you eating too much protein?
1) http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2014/05/20/All-You-Need-to-Know-About-Protein-on-a-Low-Carb-Ketogenic-Diet
2) http://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-1-2
At the other end of the spectrum, higher protein intakes have the potential for negative side-effects if intake of this nutrient exceeds 25% of daily energy expenditure. One concern with higher levels of protein intake is the suppression of ketogenesis relative to an equi-caloric amount of fat (assuming that ketones are a beneficial adaptation to whole body fuel homeostasis). In addition, Stefansson describes a malady known by the Inuit as rabbit malaise [8]. This problem would occur in the early spring when very lean rabbits were the only available game, when people might be tempted to eat too much protein in the absence of an alternative source of dietary fat. The symptoms were reported to occur within a week, and included headache and lassitude. Such symptoms are not uncommon among people who casually undertake a "low carbohydrate, high protein" diet.
If so, eat more fats and oils.0 -
Try three or four days a week doing 20 grams of carbs.
Are you eating too much protein?
1) http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2014/05/20/All-You-Need-to-Know-About-Protein-on-a-Low-Carb-Ketogenic-Diet
2) http://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-1-2
At the other end of the spectrum, higher protein intakes have the potential for negative side-effects if intake of this nutrient exceeds 25% of daily energy expenditure. One concern with higher levels of protein intake is the suppression of ketogenesis relative to an equi-caloric amount of fat (assuming that ketones are a beneficial adaptation to whole body fuel homeostasis). In addition, Stefansson describes a malady known by the Inuit as rabbit malaise [8]. This problem would occur in the early spring when very lean rabbits were the only available game, when people might be tempted to eat too much protein in the absence of an alternative source of dietary fat. The symptoms were reported to occur within a week, and included headache and lassitude. Such symptoms are not uncommon among people who casually undertake a "low carbohydrate, high protein" diet.
If so, eat more fats and oils.
Thanks for responding. I'm very careful on the protein, making sure that I take in a max of 30g per meal, with no more than 90g per day, and my protein intake is no more than 20% of my macros.0 -
Since your diary is not open, can you give us an idea of what you eat on a daily basis? That may help us to give you more specific answers.0
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michelle172415 wrote: »Since your diary is not open, can you give us an idea of what you eat on a daily basis? That may help us to give you more specific answers.
Lots of eggs, cheese (0 carb varietals), mayo, full fat plain yogurt, some greens, one glass of red wine.0 -
You're probably eating too much protein.
The RDA for protein for women is about 50g per day. This is what is required for proper function of processes that require protein.
Excess protein, especially if you are in a deficit, is going to be used for gluconeogenesis (turns protein into glucose). The glucose will then follow it's typical metabolic pathways, kicking you out of ketosis potentially.
You're eating almost double the RDA...
Not saying I know for sure, but from everything I've learned about nutrition this is a good possibility. Maybe try dropping your protein for a week or two and see if it helps?1 -
Keto and low-carb are fine. Keto-stix are useless. If you eat <25g carbs a day, you're in ketosis.I've been on a keto diet for a couple of months now, and my total carbs each day don't go over 25g. I do a keto blood test every few days. For a time, I was in optimal ketosis (1.5-3) but now I'm generally at about 1.1 and I don't know why, when my total carbs are so low.
Edited to add for clarity: I'm also very careful on the protein, making sure that I take in a max of 30g per meal, with no more than 90g per day, and my protein intake is no more than 20% of my macros.
I know that a few of you are going to want to direct me to the low-carb forum, but I had a very bad experience with the members there and left that group. I'm hoping that someone here might have some ideas what's happening.
I also know that quite a lot of you are going to want to tell me not to do a low-carb diet for whatever reason, but I urge you to resist telling me what I should do with my diet. I have very reasonable and specific reasons for being on this diet, I am not uninformed, and I am not in need of correction. I don't think that carbs are evil, and I don't think everyone should avoid them, so there's really no need to put me straight.
I appreciate any insight someone might have with my question.
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Lol OP looking at your post it looks like you've been on the forum a while to know what may be coming!!
Are you sure you are logging the exact food you are eating? I was shocked when I added the wrong sausage meat and it cost me 8 extra carbs per day that I was going over until I realised! Also.. as you said you are careful with your protein as too much can knock you off, apparently a good way to see how much protein you need is to take your body weight in lbs and multiply it by 0.6 - if that helps. Also surprised that as you drink alchohol you are showing up as NOT in Ketosis as I heard that alchohol can actually have the opposite effect and make you appear as if you are.
I'd suggest doing a blood test over urine sticks but as you are already doing that i'm not really sure what else to say, but hope my comments can help you a bit.. As said in an earlier post if you are eating the carbs you say you are I can't see any reason why you wouldn't be in Ketosis.0 -
I see no reason for the change you are experiencing either and agree that you seem to be doing it all according to guidelines. The very few suggestions I can offer may or may not work for you but if it were me I would try them one at a time and see if it makes a difference. 1. I would lower your protein by 10-20gm. 2. Lower carbs by 5gm. 3. Edit out the wine.
Good luck! I hope you can find a solution!
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My understanding is that the amount of ketones you produce will vary from day to day and hour to hour. I have heard that the thing you should be concerned with is whether or not you're in nutritional ketosis - the rest balances itself out.0
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I've been on a keto diet for a couple of months now, and my total carbs each day don't go over 25g. I do a keto blood test every few days. For a time, I was in optimal ketosis (1.5-3) but now I'm generally at about 1.1 and I don't know why, when my total carbs are so low.
Edited to add for clarity: I'm also very careful on the protein, making sure that I take in a max of 30g per meal, with no more than 90g per day, and my protein intake is no more than 20% of my macros.
Adaptation. The concentration of ketones in your blood reflects a balance between production and use, if you adapt to using ketones well the body sucks them up for fuel at lower concentrations and can maintain the flux without requiring big numbers to drive the process.
Think of it like watering dry soil, if you pour water onto dry soil quickly it pools up on top, but once it soaks in and the soil is damp you can pour at a higher rate without seeing this.
It takes a real effort for me to get up over 1.0 and low calorie intake would be part of that. If you have 90g of protein at 20% of calories then your intake is 1800 which isn't low for a woman. 1.1 is good, anything over 0.5 is acceptable unless you need therapeutic levels.
Finally, what's the glucose doing. If like me your liver is too enthusiastic and pushes up your BG level the production of ketones will be inhibited by the consequent insulin level. If I have BG over 6 mmol (108 mg) I tend not to bother wasting a ketone strip.3 -
Keto and low-carb are fine. Keto-stix are useless. If you eat <25g carbs a day, you're in ketosis.I've been on a keto diet for a couple of months now, and my total carbs each day don't go over 25g. I do a keto blood test every few days. For a time, I was in optimal ketosis (1.5-3) but now I'm generally at about 1.1 and I don't know why, when my total carbs are so low.
Edited to add for clarity: I'm also very careful on the protein, making sure that I take in a max of 30g per meal, with no more than 90g per day, and my protein intake is no more than 20% of my macros.
I know that a few of you are going to want to direct me to the low-carb forum, but I had a very bad experience with the members there and left that group. I'm hoping that someone here might have some ideas what's happening.
I also know that quite a lot of you are going to want to tell me not to do a low-carb diet for whatever reason, but I urge you to resist telling me what I should do with my diet. I have very reasonable and specific reasons for being on this diet, I am not uninformed, and I am not in need of correction. I don't think that carbs are evil, and I don't think everyone should avoid them, so there's really no need to put me straight.
I appreciate any insight someone might have with my question.
I dont use Keto stix. I use a blood meter.0 -
It shouldn't matter. You're in ketosis if you're eating <25g carbs. I wouldn't worry about it.
Keto and low-carb are fine. Keto-stix are useless. If you eat <25g carbs a day, you're in ketosis.I've been on a keto diet for a couple of months now, and my total carbs each day don't go over 25g. I do a keto blood test every few days. For a time, I was in optimal ketosis (1.5-3) but now I'm generally at about 1.1 and I don't know why, when my total carbs are so low.
Edited to add for clarity: I'm also very careful on the protein, making sure that I take in a max of 30g per meal, with no more than 90g per day, and my protein intake is no more than 20% of my macros.
I know that a few of you are going to want to direct me to the low-carb forum, but I had a very bad experience with the members there and left that group. I'm hoping that someone here might have some ideas what's happening.
I also know that quite a lot of you are going to want to tell me not to do a low-carb diet for whatever reason, but I urge you to resist telling me what I should do with my diet. I have very reasonable and specific reasons for being on this diet, I am not uninformed, and I am not in need of correction. I don't think that carbs are evil, and I don't think everyone should avoid them, so there's really no need to put me straight.
I appreciate any insight someone might have with my question.
I dont use Keto stix. I use a blood meter.
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It shouldn't matter. You're in ketosis if you're eating <25g carbs. I wouldn't worry about it.
Keto and low-carb are fine. Keto-stix are useless. If you eat <25g carbs a day, you're in ketosis.I've been on a keto diet for a couple of months now, and my total carbs each day don't go over 25g. I do a keto blood test every few days. For a time, I was in optimal ketosis (1.5-3) but now I'm generally at about 1.1 and I don't know why, when my total carbs are so low.
Edited to add for clarity: I'm also very careful on the protein, making sure that I take in a max of 30g per meal, with no more than 90g per day, and my protein intake is no more than 20% of my macros.
I know that a few of you are going to want to direct me to the low-carb forum, but I had a very bad experience with the members there and left that group. I'm hoping that someone here might have some ideas what's happening.
I also know that quite a lot of you are going to want to tell me not to do a low-carb diet for whatever reason, but I urge you to resist telling me what I should do with my diet. I have very reasonable and specific reasons for being on this diet, I am not uninformed, and I am not in need of correction. I don't think that carbs are evil, and I don't think everyone should avoid them, so there's really no need to put me straight.
I appreciate any insight someone might have with my question.
I dont use Keto stix. I use a blood meter.
Ah, but that's you. You get to decide what you worry about and I get to decide what I worry about. It's a modern world now.0 -
Wow, you're pleasant.
It shouldn't matter. You're in ketosis if you're eating <25g carbs. I wouldn't worry about it.
Keto and low-carb are fine. Keto-stix are useless. If you eat <25g carbs a day, you're in ketosis.I've been on a keto diet for a couple of months now, and my total carbs each day don't go over 25g. I do a keto blood test every few days. For a time, I was in optimal ketosis (1.5-3) but now I'm generally at about 1.1 and I don't know why, when my total carbs are so low.
Edited to add for clarity: I'm also very careful on the protein, making sure that I take in a max of 30g per meal, with no more than 90g per day, and my protein intake is no more than 20% of my macros.
I know that a few of you are going to want to direct me to the low-carb forum, but I had a very bad experience with the members there and left that group. I'm hoping that someone here might have some ideas what's happening.
I also know that quite a lot of you are going to want to tell me not to do a low-carb diet for whatever reason, but I urge you to resist telling me what I should do with my diet. I have very reasonable and specific reasons for being on this diet, I am not uninformed, and I am not in need of correction. I don't think that carbs are evil, and I don't think everyone should avoid them, so there's really no need to put me straight.
I appreciate any insight someone might have with my question.
I dont use Keto stix. I use a blood meter.
Ah, but that's you. You get to decide what you worry about and I get to decide what I worry about. It's a modern world now.
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For a time, I was in optimal ketosis (1.5-3) but now I'm generally at about 1.1 and I don't know why, when my total carbs are so low.
I'm curious, what does being in optimal ketosis mean? Is it significantly different than where you are now and are fluctuations normal? I generally eat low-carb compared to an average diet (under 100g per day the last few years in maintenance; 30 or fewer while I was losing) but I wasn't ever really aware of being in ketosis or not. I just preferred low-carb because I rarely got hungry on that kind of diet. What sort of advantage do you get from being 1.5 to 3 instead of where you are now?
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It shouldn't matter. You're in ketosis if you're eating <25g carbs. I wouldn't worry about it.
Keto and low-carb are fine. Keto-stix are useless. If you eat <25g carbs a day, you're in ketosis.I've been on a keto diet for a couple of months now, and my total carbs each day don't go over 25g. I do a keto blood test every few days. For a time, I was in optimal ketosis (1.5-3) but now I'm generally at about 1.1 and I don't know why, when my total carbs are so low.
Edited to add for clarity: I'm also very careful on the protein, making sure that I take in a max of 30g per meal, with no more than 90g per day, and my protein intake is no more than 20% of my macros.
I know that a few of you are going to want to direct me to the low-carb forum, but I had a very bad experience with the members there and left that group. I'm hoping that someone here might have some ideas what's happening.
I also know that quite a lot of you are going to want to tell me not to do a low-carb diet for whatever reason, but I urge you to resist telling me what I should do with my diet. I have very reasonable and specific reasons for being on this diet, I am not uninformed, and I am not in need of correction. I don't think that carbs are evil, and I don't think everyone should avoid them, so there's really no need to put me straight.
I appreciate any insight someone might have with my question.
I dont use Keto stix. I use a blood meter.
Ah, but that's you. You get to decide what you worry about and I get to decide what I worry about. It's a modern world now.
@fileshiny what @yarwell posted is often the case. After 19 months my blood keto levels range from .8 to 3.4 but I feel best when they are under 2.5. Ketone production is under the control of the hormone Insulin and most likely many other things so if we are making any amount of Insulin the body will prevent ketoacidosis from developing by keeping our ketone level typically under 3 or at least in my case. Perhaps evolution gave us many systems to keep the brain powered. The medical research is running behind time it seems to me.
Others may have a stable and predictable ketone levels but I do not. I tend to check my about every quarter unless I have a concern. Daily I check my acetone levels with a $15 blow meter. If I blow a 0.05 +/- 0.02 I know I am in strong ketosis. Yesterday morning I blew 0.082 and tested 2.9 blood level so I sprang for an whole apple. This morning I think I blew 0.021 and blood level was 2.2.
Please share when you find more info because your question is the question of many.
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Wow, you're pleasant.
[/quote]
I'm sure you ae not surprised she had bad experience in other forum lol
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I think the most important question to ask is am I losing weight. If yes than it should be fine. I have done a keto diet and only used keto sticks a few times1
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Higher ketone levels that facilitate greater rates of uptake by organs / tissues. Also for some medical conditions higher levels are therapeutic (epilepsy etc).
There's a graph that shows uptake of ketones (by the brain ?) rising from a low level at 0.5 mmol/l and peaking at about 3.0 mmol/l so there is a visible optimum.
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Wow, you're pleasant.
It shouldn't matter. You're in ketosis if you're eating <25g carbs. I wouldn't worry about it.
Keto and low-carb are fine. Keto-stix are useless. If you eat <25g carbs a day, you're in ketosis.I've been on a keto diet for a couple of months now, and my total carbs each day don't go over 25g. I do a keto blood test every few days. For a time, I was in optimal ketosis (1.5-3) but now I'm generally at about 1.1 and I don't know why, when my total carbs are so low.
Edited to add for clarity: I'm also very careful on the protein, making sure that I take in a max of 30g per meal, with no more than 90g per day, and my protein intake is no more than 20% of my macros.
I know that a few of you are going to want to direct me to the low-carb forum, but I had a very bad experience with the members there and left that group. I'm hoping that someone here might have some ideas what's happening.
I also know that quite a lot of you are going to want to tell me not to do a low-carb diet for whatever reason, but I urge you to resist telling me what I should do with my diet. I have very reasonable and specific reasons for being on this diet, I am not uninformed, and I am not in need of correction. I don't think that carbs are evil, and I don't think everyone should avoid them, so there's really no need to put me straight.
I appreciate any insight someone might have with my question.
I dont use Keto stix. I use a blood meter.
Ah, but that's you. You get to decide what you worry about and I get to decide what I worry about. It's a modern world now.
Just not a big fan of other people telling me what I should or should not do.1 -
Wow, you're pleasant.
It shouldn't matter. You're in ketosis if you're eating <25g carbs. I wouldn't worry about it.
Keto and low-carb are fine. Keto-stix are useless. If you eat <25g carbs a day, you're in ketosis.I've been on a keto diet for a couple of months now, and my total carbs each day don't go over 25g. I do a keto blood test every few days. For a time, I was in optimal ketosis (1.5-3) but now I'm generally at about 1.1 and I don't know why, when my total carbs are so low.
Edited to add for clarity: I'm also very careful on the protein, making sure that I take in a max of 30g per meal, with no more than 90g per day, and my protein intake is no more than 20% of my macros.
I know that a few of you are going to want to direct me to the low-carb forum, but I had a very bad experience with the members there and left that group. I'm hoping that someone here might have some ideas what's happening.
I also know that quite a lot of you are going to want to tell me not to do a low-carb diet for whatever reason, but I urge you to resist telling me what I should do with my diet. I have very reasonable and specific reasons for being on this diet, I am not uninformed, and I am not in need of correction. I don't think that carbs are evil, and I don't think everyone should avoid them, so there's really no need to put me straight.
I appreciate any insight someone might have with my question.
I dont use Keto stix. I use a blood meter.
Ah, but that's you. You get to decide what you worry about and I get to decide what I worry about. It's a modern world now.
Just not a big fan of other people telling me what I should or should not do.
Pretty sure saying, "I wouldn't worry about it" is in no way telling you what you should or shouldn't do. And, by the way, you posted on a public message board.
Hey, have a nice day!
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I've been on a keto diet for a couple of months now, and my total carbs each day don't go over 25g. I do a keto blood test every few days. For a time, I was in optimal ketosis (1.5-3) but now I'm generally at about 1.1 and I don't know why, when my total carbs are so low.
Edited to add for clarity: I'm also very careful on the protein, making sure that I take in a max of 30g per meal, with no more than 90g per day, and my protein intake is no more than 20% of my macros.
Adaptation. The concentration of ketones in your blood reflects a balance between production and use, if you adapt to using ketones well the body sucks them up for fuel at lower concentrations and can maintain the flux without requiring big numbers to drive the process.
Think of it like watering dry soil, if you pour water onto dry soil quickly it pools up on top, but once it soaks in and the soil is damp you can pour at a higher rate without seeing this.
It takes a real effort for me to get up over 1.0 and low calorie intake would be part of that. If you have 90g of protein at 20% of calories then your intake is 1800 which isn't low for a woman. 1.1 is good, anything over 0.5 is acceptable unless you need therapeutic levels.
Finally, what's the glucose doing. If like me your liver is too enthusiastic and pushes up your BG level the production of ketones will be inhibited by the consequent insulin level. If I have BG over 6 mmol (108 mg) I tend not to bother wasting a ketone strip.
This is very true for me. My liver can pump out a fair bit of glucose at night - dawn phenomenom. I can eat an all meat diet, with virtually zero carbs, and my ketostix are usually 0.5 to 1, and my FBG could even be in the high side of normal. I find I won't go over 1.5 unless I have been fasting for a day or two.
I know I am in ketosis because I keep my carbs very low, so I try not to be concerned with lower ketone readings. Unless I start fasting every other day, it's not going to go higher. I don't need theraputic ketosis, so I don't worry about it. You are keeping carbs low and in ketosis so what you are doing is probably right for you.
Perhaps consider IF if you want to raise ketones?1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »
Others may have a stable and predictable ketone levels but I do not. I tend to check my about every quarter unless I have a concern. Daily I check my acetone levels with a $15 blow meter.
Where did you find a $15 blow meter? The only ones I could find were much higher. Thanks.0 -
bacagain12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
Others may have a stable and predictable ketone levels but I do not. I tend to check my about every quarter unless I have a concern. Daily I check my acetone levels with a $15 blow meter.
Where did you find a $15 blow meter? The only ones I could find were much higher. Thanks.
ebay.com/itm/Advanced-Professional-Police-Digital-Breath-Alcohol-Tester-Breathalyser-Analyzer-/272068951738?hash=item3f5892beba:g:WmEAAOSw7FRWZPs8
@bacagain12 this is the only model I have ever purchased. It is cheap and that is the reason it works to detect. A real police grade breath analyzer will not give a False Positive reading on acetone found on one's breath.
Some use a ketonix device that from my research seems to use the same parts in the $15 model above yet it sells for $150. Neither versions give any detailed info about the blood ketone levels and all seem to become more sensitive to acetone levels after about 100 uses I have found. I have had 3 of the cheap ones and they all gave different read out numbers but all did work for a YES/NO Am I in Ketosis answer.
The best thing about it there is no blood or urine involved. Being both medically and geek inclined it makes me happy but others may just toss it. I have tried one of the sub $10 models but some have reported success. The blood meter is a requirement if one is interested in medical ketone levels. Remember being in ketosis does not insure weight loss if one is over eating.2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »bacagain12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
Others may have a stable and predictable ketone levels but I do not. I tend to check my about every quarter unless I have a concern. Daily I check my acetone levels with a $15 blow meter.
Where did you find a $15 blow meter? The only ones I could find were much higher. Thanks.
ebay.com/itm/Advanced-Professional-Police-Digital-Breath-Alcohol-Tester-Breathalyser-Analyzer-/272068951738?hash=item3f5892beba:g:WmEAAOSw7FRWZPs8
@bacagain12 this is the only model I have ever purchased. It is cheap and that is the reason it works to detect. A real police grade breath analyzer will not give a False Positive reading on acetone found on one's breath.
Some use a ketonix device that from my research seems to use the same parts in the $15 model above yet it sells for $150. Neither versions give any detailed info about the blood ketone levels and all seem to become more sensitive to acetone levels after about 100 uses I have found. I have had 3 of the cheap ones and they all gave different read out numbers but all did work for a YES/NO Am I in Ketosis answer.
The best thing about it there is no blood or urine involved. Being both medically and geek inclined it makes me happy but others may just toss it. I have tried one of the sub $10 models but some have reported success. The blood meter is a requirement if one is interested in medical ketone levels. Remember being in ketosis does not insure weight loss if one is over eating.
Thank you for the info - this sounds much better than the $150 version that I saw!!!1
This discussion has been closed.
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