Protein?

lynn_glenmont wrote: »

sunnybeaches105 wrote: »

Okay, 20 grams. But, is the 20 grams not random? Or do you have some study saying the National Academy is wrong? Or is your own declared trust in them also limited? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with adding a little extra, but it seems you're telling me these reports are the gospel and yet you're not betting your own performance on them. If you bothered to read what I wrote above, you'd also see that I wasn't pushing the full 1 gram per pound of lean body mass on the OP.

Why should I have to read what you wrote above? I wasn't responding to you (in my first post in this thread); I was responding to the OP. You're the one who responded to my post.

So it is sufficient? Sufficient for what? Health? That's not what we are talking about here. We are talking about optimal intake for building and retaining muscle mass. Those are two different subjects. You must understand this yourself because you are adding 20 grams to what the esteemed National Academies is actually calling "adequate."

No, we're not. The OP was asking whether she really needed to consume 1 g protein/lb BW/d as a beginning lifter and indicated that she found this to be a huge challenge. Then another person in the thread questioned why she sometimes saw 1 g/lb and other times saw 1 g/kg. I was responding to them. You're talking about optimal intake for building and retaining muscle mass, and I have the only studies I've seen supporting 1 g protein/lb/day looked at serious male lifters looking to get every last bit of benefit out of their workouts. No proof that it's optimal for me or the OP, although there is a long history of medical studies that included no female subjects being extrapolated to women, so you're in good company.

I'm just trying to reassure someone* who apparently is just starting lifting (and thus probably not in need of what some studies suggest may provide incremental benefits to serious, male lifters looking for every last bit of an edge -- or, as you say, "optimum protein intake for strength sports") that they don't necessarily need to strive for 1 g/lb BW/day, and that there are other, science-based sources that suggest a lower number.

Right. Other studies focused on general health and not muscle building or retention. Again, see what I posted above.

Am I missing something? The only link I see that you posted above is to a site by someone hawking a book.

Please take a look at what I posted above. It seems to me that more needs to be done here. We know what you're posting is simply "adequate" or "sufficient" for health, and we know that the Helms article is suggesting more for the final stages of a cut for male lifters. Agree it's a grey area.

I agree that some people may see benefits that are worthwhile to them from eating more protein.

I see many posters, especially women, essentially being told that if they're not consuming at least 1 g protein per pound, they're sacrificing massive amounts of LBM and are wasting their time in the gym, and so these women are twisting themselves in knots to eat more protein than appeals to them, possibly making it harder for them to stick with their goals (by making their food choices less appealing), and wasting money on protein supplements (or spending extra money on food for what is typically the most expensive macro) so that they can meet some nutritional ideal of elite male body-builders.

So, I guess that's a grey area.

As for the legitimacy of sources, I prefer the National Academies of Science to websites that either sell books or supplements. They clearly have a financial interest in convincing people that they need more protein, and that they have the answer.

*(two someones, actually, since @JackieMarie1989jgw expressed similar concerns, and wanted to know why she was seeing it expressed in both kilograms and pounds -- plus any similarly situated lurkers).

I have no interest in playing the Appeal to Authority game. What you posted is concerned with adequate intake for health. It's not a matter of the legitimacy of the source, but about what that source is actually saying. Again, read what I posted above. In regard to "clearly have a financial interest in convincing people" because these folks want to "sell books or supplements" take a look at what I posted. It might help to actually open posted links before going off on people and pulling the shill card.

again, I'm only seeing one link that you posted above, and when I click on it, it's selling a book.

It's a grey area north of of the very low targets provided with RDA. Several other people have also posted other studies and links to studies that provide additional information showing this.

I used the Alan Aragon link because he raises the point of distinguishing between male/female when calculating protein intake in that summary. I even referenced the paragraph for the OP. His monthly research review is very well respected. You are discounting everything simply because he wrote a book, and you missed the internal link to the Helms study. I'm posting the paragraph and link to the study here for the OP and lurkers:

"This next one is sort of an optional tweak. It’s not crucial since overdoing protein a little bit is rarely ever a bad thing, especially for dieters. Although using target bodyweight (in pounds) as a protein gram target will still work for women, they can choose to shoot lower with this type of protein target since women typically have a lower proportion of lean mass & higher proportion of fat mass. A more technical protein target would be approximately 1-1.4 g/lb of lean mass (as reflected in recent work by Helms, et al). Just remember that basing protein intake on target bodyweight is merely a proxy for lean mass plus a safety buffer. Let me emphasize the important principle that the numbers derived from formulas are not The Gospel; they are merely educated estimations."

There is an internal link to the Helms study in that paragraph of the page, but here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24092765/

You will note that this study uses both male and female athletes.

As for anyone telling the OP she is wasting time in the gym, I don't see that and I certainly didn't say it. I'll also say that my wife and I rarely use protein powder or other protein supplements and we both regularly hit our protein targets. We do keep powder in the house (on occasion) but it's not a crutch or necessity. It's simply a matter of eating lean meats and dairy with plenty of vegetables to round out the diet.

Finally, I linked yet another study that you simply ignored. It's also worth reading.