An unfashionable defence of convenience
SueInAz
Posts: 6,592 Member
This is a bit of a long read but well worth the effort. I see a lot of the "clean eating" and "processed foods are the devil" proclamations around here so a bit of insight from the other side is refreshing.
http://angry-chef.com/blog/an-unfashionable-defence-of-convenience
If you don't have time now, here are a couple of good passages:
Firstly, what is processed food? This is a problem. I am not really sure what people mean when they attack ‘all processed foods’. Is that what they really mean? Do they mean flour, quinoa, rice, cous cous, cashew nuts, dried fruits, seeds, vinegars, sea salt, spices, pasta, milk and cheese? These are all ‘processed’ in some way. Do they mean all tinned goods like tomatoes, tomato puree, pulses, sweetcorn and tuna? Do they mean everything frozen? These things are all processed. Most have been subjected to some sort of heat treatment, which is by far the most common form of processing in the food industry.
[...]
Telling people that if they cook with real ingredients they will save enough to buy organic if absurd, unrealistic and stupid. People need cheap simple stuff they know the kids will eat. They buy brands because they know that they will not be wasting money and they do not have the time or energy to experiment. Real people do not want to be lectured about your food philosophy. They do not care about farm to fork. They do not need to be brought in touch with the land to develop a good relationship with produce. They do not want to be publicly shamed into rejecting the convenience products they love.
[...]
Before convenience foods, when everything was natural and supposedly idyllic, people, or to be more specific women, were chained to their kitchens. Women were expected to spend most of their day in the kitchen, preparing, washing, chopping, braising, making pastry. All women, whether they wanted to or not, were expected to cook all day, every day. And to do the laundry. And to care for the children. And keep the house clean. Many would have backbreaking work to do on their allotment. Women were trapped in this cycle because it was expected of them – the requirements of managing a household forced them into servitude and anyone who rejected this risked social exclusion.
Then came convenience. Convenience foods, convenient appliances, convenient shops. Fridges meant that food could be stored and long life goods meant quick, simple meals could easily be produced. Along came vacuum cleaners, automatic washing machines, supermarkets, telephones. Progress happened and it changed everything. Women were allowed to break out of servitude. Convenience food played a huge part in this. It offered a chance to put a nutritious meal on the table with little preparation, time or thought.
Food is not good for you based on where it was produced. The nutritional value of food depends on what it consists of, not on some magical story of its provenance. Natural is not the same as healthy, processed is not the same as unhealthy. The solution to the crisis of obesity lies in persuading people to eat a balanced diet and that will happen one step at a time. It will be successful if it embraces convenience products and engages with food manufacturers, retailers and brands. It is a retrograde step to reject manufactured convenience and thoroughly counter productive to make unrealistic expectations that people should return to some sort of all natural subsistence living."
http://angry-chef.com/blog/an-unfashionable-defence-of-convenience
If you don't have time now, here are a couple of good passages:
Firstly, what is processed food? This is a problem. I am not really sure what people mean when they attack ‘all processed foods’. Is that what they really mean? Do they mean flour, quinoa, rice, cous cous, cashew nuts, dried fruits, seeds, vinegars, sea salt, spices, pasta, milk and cheese? These are all ‘processed’ in some way. Do they mean all tinned goods like tomatoes, tomato puree, pulses, sweetcorn and tuna? Do they mean everything frozen? These things are all processed. Most have been subjected to some sort of heat treatment, which is by far the most common form of processing in the food industry.
[...]
Telling people that if they cook with real ingredients they will save enough to buy organic if absurd, unrealistic and stupid. People need cheap simple stuff they know the kids will eat. They buy brands because they know that they will not be wasting money and they do not have the time or energy to experiment. Real people do not want to be lectured about your food philosophy. They do not care about farm to fork. They do not need to be brought in touch with the land to develop a good relationship with produce. They do not want to be publicly shamed into rejecting the convenience products they love.
[...]
Before convenience foods, when everything was natural and supposedly idyllic, people, or to be more specific women, were chained to their kitchens. Women were expected to spend most of their day in the kitchen, preparing, washing, chopping, braising, making pastry. All women, whether they wanted to or not, were expected to cook all day, every day. And to do the laundry. And to care for the children. And keep the house clean. Many would have backbreaking work to do on their allotment. Women were trapped in this cycle because it was expected of them – the requirements of managing a household forced them into servitude and anyone who rejected this risked social exclusion.
Then came convenience. Convenience foods, convenient appliances, convenient shops. Fridges meant that food could be stored and long life goods meant quick, simple meals could easily be produced. Along came vacuum cleaners, automatic washing machines, supermarkets, telephones. Progress happened and it changed everything. Women were allowed to break out of servitude. Convenience food played a huge part in this. It offered a chance to put a nutritious meal on the table with little preparation, time or thought.
Food is not good for you based on where it was produced. The nutritional value of food depends on what it consists of, not on some magical story of its provenance. Natural is not the same as healthy, processed is not the same as unhealthy. The solution to the crisis of obesity lies in persuading people to eat a balanced diet and that will happen one step at a time. It will be successful if it embraces convenience products and engages with food manufacturers, retailers and brands. It is a retrograde step to reject manufactured convenience and thoroughly counter productive to make unrealistic expectations that people should return to some sort of all natural subsistence living."
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Replies
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I hate it when someone decides what "real people" do. Real people do a lot of different things, depending on their personal needs. The obesity crisis isn't my crisis, I'm not trying to feed any picky eaters, and I'm not a fan of most processed foods that have more than one or two ingredients. My goals are to meet my macros and eat my vegetables. Frozen veggies aren't usually included under processed foods. I try to avoid anything canned, other than bottled tomato sauce, because I don't like the flavor. It's an inconvenient diet, and I don't bother with organic, but it tastes good.0
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I completely agree with some convenience foods. What I don't like is that most convenience foods, like restaurant foods (even in healthy vegan places!), use an excessive amount of sugar, salt, or oil. e.g. I had a catered meal from a local spot the other day - roasted veggie skewers. Yay, right? Well, there was so much oil on it that each skewer was a crazy amount of calories. To be fair, roasted veggies do use a crazy amount of oil (even when I make it at home, I have to use a fair bit of oil).
So by and large, we are cooking more from scratch and limiting convenience foods. Cheaper for our budget and I control what goes in.0 -
I think this is a pretty good quote too, because it's pretty true... as seen by all the Paleo baked goods and 'healthy' desserts.
"Obesity happens because people make poor food choices. If you took away convenience foods, they would still make poor food choices. People would make chips from scratch or buy them from the chippy and that would be a lot less healthy than the oven chips they use today. They would also be pissed off, because you would have taken away the time they saved using the convenient option and even more pissed off because they would have to think about cooking tonight when they are tired and the kids want some attention."
People are ALWAYS trying to push their ideas of what is 'right' onto others, without taking into consideration others circumstances. We know that vilifying of anything based on current science is pointless, because science is ever evolving. FAT used to be the devil, and now we know it's not. CARBS were the devil for a while, until we realized that it's not. Now SUGAR and PROCESSED foods are the devil. These are food fads, and nothing more. Do what works for you, and keep your eyes on your own plate.4 -
lithezebra wrote: »I hate it when someone decides what "real people" do. Real people do a lot of different things, depending on their personal needs. The obesity crisis isn't my crisis, I'm not trying to feed any picky eaters, and I'm not a fan of most processed foods that have more than one or two ingredients. My goals are to meet my macros and eat my vegetables. Frozen veggies aren't usually included under processed foods. I try to avoid anything canned, other than bottled tomato sauce, because I don't like the flavor. It's an inconvenient diet, and I don't bother with organic, but it tastes good.
Saying "real people" is just like saying "most people". The obesity crisis may not be YOUR crisis, but that doesn't mean that it's not a crisis and that it doesn't affect you and the people you love. Whether it's directly or indirectly, like having to pay more taxes into more healthcare and obesity programs. I feel like you're kind of missing the point and just focusing on the fact that what he's suggesting isn't what you do, so therefore, he doesn't have any good points.3 -
lithezebra wrote: »I hate it when someone decides what "real people" do. Real people do a lot of different things, depending on their personal needs. The obesity crisis isn't my crisis, I'm not trying to feed any picky eaters, and I'm not a fan of most processed foods that have more than one or two ingredients. My goals are to meet my macros and eat my vegetables. Frozen veggies aren't usually included under processed foods. I try to avoid anything canned, other than bottled tomato sauce, because I don't like the flavor. It's an inconvenient diet, and I don't bother with organic, but it tastes good.
Saying "real people" is just like saying "most people". The obesity crisis may not be YOUR crisis, but that doesn't mean that it's not a crisis and that it doesn't affect you and the people you love. Whether it's directly or indirectly, like having to pay more taxes into more healthcare and obesity programs. I feel like you're kind of missing the point and just focusing on the fact that what he's suggesting isn't what you do, so therefore, he doesn't have any good points.
You're missing my point that people do different things depending on their personal needs. I don't think that the reverse shaming of people who cook from scratch or buy local or organic foods is an especially good point.2 -
lithezebra wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »I hate it when someone decides what "real people" do. Real people do a lot of different things, depending on their personal needs. The obesity crisis isn't my crisis, I'm not trying to feed any picky eaters, and I'm not a fan of most processed foods that have more than one or two ingredients. My goals are to meet my macros and eat my vegetables. Frozen veggies aren't usually included under processed foods. I try to avoid anything canned, other than bottled tomato sauce, because I don't like the flavor. It's an inconvenient diet, and I don't bother with organic, but it tastes good.
Saying "real people" is just like saying "most people". The obesity crisis may not be YOUR crisis, but that doesn't mean that it's not a crisis and that it doesn't affect you and the people you love. Whether it's directly or indirectly, like having to pay more taxes into more healthcare and obesity programs. I feel like you're kind of missing the point and just focusing on the fact that what he's suggesting isn't what you do, so therefore, he doesn't have any good points.
You're missing my point that people do different things depending on their personal needs. I don't think that the reverse shaming of people who cook from scratch or buy local or organic foods is an especially good point.
Nope, didn't miss that at all, but considering that grocery stories are full of processed foods, I would say that it's safe to say that "most people" eat processed foods due to the convenience/taste/whatever so I'm not sure why you have an issue with that generalization. If it doesn't apply to you, then "most people" doesn't apply to you!
Shaming... people? What? They're talking about people who push their foods and eating habits onto others and say that there's no other way to eat, and that people who DO eat differently than them must be stupid/bad/unhealthy. People who claim BS statements like:
"You will never become obese eating natural home cooked foods’
‘Anything freshly cooked from real ingredients is going to be better for you than something processed from a factory.’
‘65% of Calories come from ultra processed foods. These are products made from ingredients you would not use at home.’
‘With Uncle Ben's and Dolmio it should not be "occasional" or "everyday" but "never"’
‘If you cooked properly and then tried Dolmio etc you would easily be able to taste the sugar and salt’
‘Ingredients lists shouldn't be a long list of unpronounceable things you've never heard of. Avoid processed foods and you will see and feel the benefits.’
‘Knowing how to cook means you'll be able to turn all sorts of fresh ingredients into meals when they're in season, at their best, and cheapest! Cooking this way will always be cheaper than buying processed food, not to mention better for you.’
‘Processed food is the reason we have become obese’."
Eat whatever you want, however you want. Which is the basis of what the author is saying.9 -
lithezebra wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »I hate it when someone decides what "real people" do. Real people do a lot of different things, depending on their personal needs. The obesity crisis isn't my crisis, I'm not trying to feed any picky eaters, and I'm not a fan of most processed foods that have more than one or two ingredients. My goals are to meet my macros and eat my vegetables. Frozen veggies aren't usually included under processed foods. I try to avoid anything canned, other than bottled tomato sauce, because I don't like the flavor. It's an inconvenient diet, and I don't bother with organic, but it tastes good.
Saying "real people" is just like saying "most people". The obesity crisis may not be YOUR crisis, but that doesn't mean that it's not a crisis and that it doesn't affect you and the people you love. Whether it's directly or indirectly, like having to pay more taxes into more healthcare and obesity programs. I feel like you're kind of missing the point and just focusing on the fact that what he's suggesting isn't what you do, so therefore, he doesn't have any good points.
You're missing my point that people do different things depending on their personal needs. I don't think that the reverse shaming of people who cook from scratch or buy local or organic foods is an especially good point.
Nope, didn't miss that at all, but considering that grocery stories are full of processed foods, I would say that it's safe to say that "most people" eat processed foods due to the convenience/taste/whatever so I'm not sure why you have an issue with that generalization. If it doesn't apply to you, then "most people" doesn't apply to you!
Shaming... people? What? They're talking about people who push their foods and eating habits onto others and say that there's no other way to eat, and that people who DO eat differently than them must be stupid/bad/unhealthy. People who claim BS statements like:
"You will never become obese eating natural home cooked foods’
‘Anything freshly cooked from real ingredients is going to be better for you than something processed from a factory.’
‘65% of Calories come from ultra processed foods. These are products made from ingredients you would not use at home.’
‘With Uncle Ben's and Dolmio it should not be "occasional" or "everyday" but "never"’
‘If you cooked properly and then tried Dolmio etc you would easily be able to taste the sugar and salt’
‘Ingredients lists shouldn't be a long list of unpronounceable things you've never heard of. Avoid processed foods and you will see and feel the benefits.’
‘Knowing how to cook means you'll be able to turn all sorts of fresh ingredients into meals when they're in season, at their best, and cheapest! Cooking this way will always be cheaper than buying processed food, not to mention better for you.’
‘Processed food is the reason we have become obese’."
Eat whatever you want, however you want. Which is the basis of what the author is saying.
Whoa there. Yes it's nonsense that processed food is the reason people become obese, and I have never read that in a peer reviewed study. People should be responsible enough to ignore blatantly simplistic reasoning like that. It's also not a good idea to eat whatever you want, without exercising a great deal of moderation, and also eating foods that will provide you with at least adequate nourishment.
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lithezebra wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »I hate it when someone decides what "real people" do. Real people do a lot of different things, depending on their personal needs. The obesity crisis isn't my crisis, I'm not trying to feed any picky eaters, and I'm not a fan of most processed foods that have more than one or two ingredients. My goals are to meet my macros and eat my vegetables. Frozen veggies aren't usually included under processed foods. I try to avoid anything canned, other than bottled tomato sauce, because I don't like the flavor. It's an inconvenient diet, and I don't bother with organic, but it tastes good.
Saying "real people" is just like saying "most people". The obesity crisis may not be YOUR crisis, but that doesn't mean that it's not a crisis and that it doesn't affect you and the people you love. Whether it's directly or indirectly, like having to pay more taxes into more healthcare and obesity programs. I feel like you're kind of missing the point and just focusing on the fact that what he's suggesting isn't what you do, so therefore, he doesn't have any good points.
You're missing my point that people do different things depending on their personal needs. I don't think that the reverse shaming of people who cook from scratch or buy local or organic foods is an especially good point.
Nope, didn't miss that at all, but considering that grocery stories are full of processed foods, I would say that it's safe to say that "most people" eat processed foods due to the convenience/taste/whatever so I'm not sure why you have an issue with that generalization. If it doesn't apply to you, then "most people" doesn't apply to you!
Shaming... people? What? They're talking about people who push their foods and eating habits onto others and say that there's no other way to eat, and that people who DO eat differently than them must be stupid/bad/unhealthy. People who claim BS statements like:
"You will never become obese eating natural home cooked foods’
‘Anything freshly cooked from real ingredients is going to be better for you than something processed from a factory.’
‘65% of Calories come from ultra processed foods. These are products made from ingredients you would not use at home.’
‘With Uncle Ben's and Dolmio it should not be "occasional" or "everyday" but "never"’
‘If you cooked properly and then tried Dolmio etc you would easily be able to taste the sugar and salt’
‘Ingredients lists shouldn't be a long list of unpronounceable things you've never heard of. Avoid processed foods and you will see and feel the benefits.’
‘Knowing how to cook means you'll be able to turn all sorts of fresh ingredients into meals when they're in season, at their best, and cheapest! Cooking this way will always be cheaper than buying processed food, not to mention better for you.’
‘Processed food is the reason we have become obese’."
Eat whatever you want, however you want. Which is the basis of what the author is saying.
Whoa there. Yes it's nonsense that processed food is the reason people become obese, and I have never read that in a peer reviewed study. People should be responsible enough to ignore blatantly simplistic reasoning like that. It's also not a good idea to eat whatever you want, without exercising a great deal of moderation, and also eating foods that will provide you with at least adequate nourishment.
But eating convenience foods doesn't mean that one isn't getting adequate nourishment. That sort of thinking (processed foods and convenience foods aren't nourishing) is exactly what the OP is questioning.
The vegetable juice I had for breakfast had tons of nutrients. The tempeh and bread I had for lunch had tons of nutrients.
In deciding whether to eat something, it makes more sense to look at what it actually contains instead of judging it by the amount of processing it has undergone or convenience it offers.1 -
I think the automobile has more to do with why so many people are fat than the actual foods. If you had to walk to McDonalds how often would you go? If you had to carry all those softdrinks home would you still get so many? I could walk to a store a mile away and not blink but if I was 100 lbs overweight that would be quite a chore. Having a car lets me keep the weight and still be mobile like fit people.0
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One of the biggest shortcomings of the article is that it's overly broad about what it calls processed food. I don't think that most people equate tempeh with instant ramen, or think that having frozen vegetables is equivalent to opening a can of soup that contains high fructose corn syrup and more sodium than you need for the whole day.janejellyroll wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »I hate it when someone decides what "real people" do. Real people do a lot of different things, depending on their personal needs. The obesity crisis isn't my crisis, I'm not trying to feed any picky eaters, and I'm not a fan of most processed foods that have more than one or two ingredients. My goals are to meet my macros and eat my vegetables. Frozen veggies aren't usually included under processed foods. I try to avoid anything canned, other than bottled tomato sauce, because I don't like the flavor. It's an inconvenient diet, and I don't bother with organic, but it tastes good.
Saying "real people" is just like saying "most people". The obesity crisis may not be YOUR crisis, but that doesn't mean that it's not a crisis and that it doesn't affect you and the people you love. Whether it's directly or indirectly, like having to pay more taxes into more healthcare and obesity programs. I feel like you're kind of missing the point and just focusing on the fact that what he's suggesting isn't what you do, so therefore, he doesn't have any good points.
You're missing my point that people do different things depending on their personal needs. I don't think that the reverse shaming of people who cook from scratch or buy local or organic foods is an especially good point.
Nope, didn't miss that at all, but considering that grocery stories are full of processed foods, I would say that it's safe to say that "most people" eat processed foods due to the convenience/taste/whatever so I'm not sure why you have an issue with that generalization. If it doesn't apply to you, then "most people" doesn't apply to you!
Shaming... people? What? They're talking about people who push their foods and eating habits onto others and say that there's no other way to eat, and that people who DO eat differently than them must be stupid/bad/unhealthy. People who claim BS statements like:
"You will never become obese eating natural home cooked foods’
‘Anything freshly cooked from real ingredients is going to be better for you than something processed from a factory.’
‘65% of Calories come from ultra processed foods. These are products made from ingredients you would not use at home.’
‘With Uncle Ben's and Dolmio it should not be "occasional" or "everyday" but "never"’
‘If you cooked properly and then tried Dolmio etc you would easily be able to taste the sugar and salt’
‘Ingredients lists shouldn't be a long list of unpronounceable things you've never heard of. Avoid processed foods and you will see and feel the benefits.’
‘Knowing how to cook means you'll be able to turn all sorts of fresh ingredients into meals when they're in season, at their best, and cheapest! Cooking this way will always be cheaper than buying processed food, not to mention better for you.’
‘Processed food is the reason we have become obese’."
Eat whatever you want, however you want. Which is the basis of what the author is saying.
Whoa there. Yes it's nonsense that processed food is the reason people become obese, and I have never read that in a peer reviewed study. People should be responsible enough to ignore blatantly simplistic reasoning like that. It's also not a good idea to eat whatever you want, without exercising a great deal of moderation, and also eating foods that will provide you with at least adequate nourishment.
But eating convenience foods doesn't mean that one isn't getting adequate nourishment. That sort of thinking (processed foods and convenience foods aren't nourishing) is exactly what the OP is questioning.
The vegetable juice I had for breakfast had tons of nutrients. The tempeh and bread I had for lunch had tons of nutrients.
In deciding whether to eat something, it makes more sense to look at what it actually contains instead of judging it by the amount of processing it has undergone or convenience it offers.
I was responding to the statement to "eat whatever you want." If tempeh is what you want, more power to you. There's a guy on my street who eats a full sized bag of potato chips as a meal. I'm sure that he likes them, but no amount of reactionary backlash against healthy eating is going to make that into an adequately nourishing thousand or so calories.0 -
lithezebra wrote: »
I don't think that most people equate tempeh with instant ramen, or think that having frozen vegetables is equivalent to opening a can of soup that contains high fructose corn syrup and more sodium than you need for the whole day.janejellyroll wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »I hate it when someone decides what "real people" do. Real people do a lot of different things, depending on their personal needs. The obesity crisis isn't my crisis, I'm not trying to feed any picky eaters, and I'm not a fan of most processed foods that have more than one or two ingredients. My goals are to meet my macros and eat my vegetables. Frozen veggies aren't usually included under processed foods. I try to avoid anything canned, other than bottled tomato sauce, because I don't like the flavor. It's an inconvenient diet, and I don't bother with organic, but it tastes good.
Saying "real people" is just like saying "most people". The obesity crisis may not be YOUR crisis, but that doesn't mean that it's not a crisis and that it doesn't affect you and the people you love. Whether it's directly or indirectly, like having to pay more taxes into more healthcare and obesity programs. I feel like you're kind of missing the point and just focusing on the fact that what he's suggesting isn't what you do, so therefore, he doesn't have any good points.
You're missing my point that people do different things depending on their personal needs. I don't think that the reverse shaming of people who cook from scratch or buy local or organic foods is an especially good point.
Nope, didn't miss that at all, but considering that grocery stories are full of processed foods, I would say that it's safe to say that "most people" eat processed foods due to the convenience/taste/whatever so I'm not sure why you have an issue with that generalization. If it doesn't apply to you, then "most people" doesn't apply to you!
Shaming... people? What? They're talking about people who push their foods and eating habits onto others and say that there's no other way to eat, and that people who DO eat differently than them must be stupid/bad/unhealthy. People who claim BS statements like:
"You will never become obese eating natural home cooked foods’
‘Anything freshly cooked from real ingredients is going to be better for you than something processed from a factory.’
‘65% of Calories come from ultra processed foods. These are products made from ingredients you would not use at home.’
‘With Uncle Ben's and Dolmio it should not be "occasional" or "everyday" but "never"’
‘If you cooked properly and then tried Dolmio etc you would easily be able to taste the sugar and salt’
‘Ingredients lists shouldn't be a long list of unpronounceable things you've never heard of. Avoid processed foods and you will see and feel the benefits.’
‘Knowing how to cook means you'll be able to turn all sorts of fresh ingredients into meals when they're in season, at their best, and cheapest! Cooking this way will always be cheaper than buying processed food, not to mention better for you.’
‘Processed food is the reason we have become obese’."
Eat whatever you want, however you want. Which is the basis of what the author is saying.
Whoa there. Yes it's nonsense that processed food is the reason people become obese, and I have never read that in a peer reviewed study. People should be responsible enough to ignore blatantly simplistic reasoning like that. It's also not a good idea to eat whatever you want, without exercising a great deal of moderation, and also eating foods that will provide you with at least adequate nourishment.
But eating convenience foods doesn't mean that one isn't getting adequate nourishment. That sort of thinking (processed foods and convenience foods aren't nourishing) is exactly what the OP is questioning.
The vegetable juice I had for breakfast had tons of nutrients. The tempeh and bread I had for lunch had tons of nutrients.
In deciding whether to eat something, it makes more sense to look at what it actually contains instead of judging it by the amount of processing it has undergone or convenience it offers.
I was responding to the statement to "eat whatever you want." There's a guy on my street who eats a full sized bag of potato chips as a meal. I'm sure that he likes them, but no amount of reactionary backlash against healthy eating is going to make that into an adequately nourishing thousand or so calories.
I'm glad you don't equate tempeh with ramen, but they're both processed foods. That's exactly why demonizing processed foods makes no sense to me.
I don't think anyone has said that eating an entire bag of potato chips at once is going to provide adequate nourishment to people, but if someone holds that position, I guess they can step in to defend it. I think what was being said was that nutritional needs can be met even if one is eating processed or convenience foods . . . or even if one eats some soup that has HFCS.3 -
Great article. I am far from a clean eater, and rely heavily on processed foods - the entire range of them from the items people say "oh that's not what we mean" like frozen vegetables, greek yogurt, and steel cut oats... to ultra processed convenience foods like frozen meals and Hamburger Helper. That doesn't mean I don't care about nutrition. It means I am a busy working mom and rely on convenience foods to help me get my nutrition in, while staying within my calorie goal.9
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Any article that reduces people to "real people" annoys me. "Real people" eat vegan, and paleo, and keto and every other kind of diet. Some eat diets of mac and cheese and others eat only raw organic Vegan. Basically, don't try to make some big stand against people trying to push their beliefs on you while pushing your beliefs on others by suggesting your way is the way "real people" behave.
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heatherheyns wrote: »Any article that reduces people to "real people" annoys me. "Real people" eat vegan, and paleo, and keto and every other kind of diet. Some eat diets of mac and cheese and others eat only raw organic Vegan. Basically, don't try to make some big stand against people trying to push their beliefs on you while pushing your beliefs on others by suggesting your way is the way "real people" behave.
Did you even read the blog? You seem to be missing the point entirely.2 -
lithezebra wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »I hate it when someone decides what "real people" do. Real people do a lot of different things, depending on their personal needs. The obesity crisis isn't my crisis, I'm not trying to feed any picky eaters, and I'm not a fan of most processed foods that have more than one or two ingredients. My goals are to meet my macros and eat my vegetables. Frozen veggies aren't usually included under processed foods. I try to avoid anything canned, other than bottled tomato sauce, because I don't like the flavor. It's an inconvenient diet, and I don't bother with organic, but it tastes good.
Saying "real people" is just like saying "most people". The obesity crisis may not be YOUR crisis, but that doesn't mean that it's not a crisis and that it doesn't affect you and the people you love. Whether it's directly or indirectly, like having to pay more taxes into more healthcare and obesity programs. I feel like you're kind of missing the point and just focusing on the fact that what he's suggesting isn't what you do, so therefore, he doesn't have any good points.
You're missing my point that people do different things depending on their personal needs. I don't think that the reverse shaming of people who cook from scratch or buy local or organic foods is an especially good point.
I'm an avid cook and cook primarily with scratch ingredients and some minimally processed ingredients...I read the blog and I don't feel as though I've been reversed shamed...did you even read it? If that's what you got out of that, I really don't know what to say...1 -
Not yet. I read the offered exerpts, Since they were put here for people to read who did not have time at that moment to read the full article. If they were not good representations of the article, perhaps picking better exerpts would help. Going by those, the attitude seems to defend by putting down other methods of eating, which people often do. I understand the point, I believe, but I don't care for the way it is given.0
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heatherheyns wrote: »Not yet. I read the offered exerpts, Since they were put here for people to read who did not have time at that moment to read the full article. If they were not good representations of the article, perhaps picking better exerpts would help. Going by those, the attitude seems to defend by putting down other methods of eating, which people often do. I understand the point, I believe, but I don't care for the way it is given.
All it is basically saying is that "processed" food isn't this inherently evil and unhealthy thing, nor is it the cause of the obesity epidemic. It doesn't say anything at all about people who like to cook with whole ingredients or vegans or whatever. It's basically just saying to stop the X food is inherently unhealthy because it's in a can nonsense.3 -
My feelings are hurt because you don't like the foods I like.
*sigh*
First World Problems6 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »I hate it when someone decides what "real people" do. Real people do a lot of different things, depending on their personal needs. The obesity crisis isn't my crisis, I'm not trying to feed any picky eaters, and I'm not a fan of most processed foods that have more than one or two ingredients. My goals are to meet my macros and eat my vegetables. Frozen veggies aren't usually included under processed foods. I try to avoid anything canned, other than bottled tomato sauce, because I don't like the flavor. It's an inconvenient diet, and I don't bother with organic, but it tastes good.
Saying "real people" is just like saying "most people". The obesity crisis may not be YOUR crisis, but that doesn't mean that it's not a crisis and that it doesn't affect you and the people you love. Whether it's directly or indirectly, like having to pay more taxes into more healthcare and obesity programs. I feel like you're kind of missing the point and just focusing on the fact that what he's suggesting isn't what you do, so therefore, he doesn't have any good points.
You're missing my point that people do different things depending on their personal needs. I don't think that the reverse shaming of people who cook from scratch or buy local or organic foods is an especially good point.
I'm an avid cook and cook primarily with scratch ingredients and some minimally processed ingredients...I read the blog and I don't feel as though I've been reversed shamed...did you even read it? If that's what you got out of that, I really don't know what to say...
"Real people" was an especially poor choice of words, for a start. That's like saying that "real women have curves." Also, the author's category for processed food is so broad that it's meaningless. Nutritionists caution people to read labels and pay attention to added sugar, salt and fats, and that makes sense. They don't tell you that frozen or canned vegetables will make you fat, though, realistically, they're going to mention that the cooking process for canning destroys some nutrients.
I think there are good points to be made about which processed foods are a better nutritional value than others. I don't think the excerpts made those points.0 -
lithezebra wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »I hate it when someone decides what "real people" do. Real people do a lot of different things, depending on their personal needs. The obesity crisis isn't my crisis, I'm not trying to feed any picky eaters, and I'm not a fan of most processed foods that have more than one or two ingredients. My goals are to meet my macros and eat my vegetables. Frozen veggies aren't usually included under processed foods. I try to avoid anything canned, other than bottled tomato sauce, because I don't like the flavor. It's an inconvenient diet, and I don't bother with organic, but it tastes good.
Saying "real people" is just like saying "most people". The obesity crisis may not be YOUR crisis, but that doesn't mean that it's not a crisis and that it doesn't affect you and the people you love. Whether it's directly or indirectly, like having to pay more taxes into more healthcare and obesity programs. I feel like you're kind of missing the point and just focusing on the fact that what he's suggesting isn't what you do, so therefore, he doesn't have any good points.
You're missing my point that people do different things depending on their personal needs. I don't think that the reverse shaming of people who cook from scratch or buy local or organic foods is an especially good point.
I'm an avid cook and cook primarily with scratch ingredients and some minimally processed ingredients...I read the blog and I don't feel as though I've been reversed shamed...did you even read it? If that's what you got out of that, I really don't know what to say...
"Real people" was an especially poor choice of words, for a start. That's like saying that "real women have curves." Also, the author's category for processed food is so broad that it's meaningless. Nutritionists caution people to read labels and pay attention to added sugar, salt and fats, and that makes sense. They don't tell you that frozen or canned vegetables will make you fat, though, realistically, they're going to mention that the cooking process for canning destroys some nutrients.
I think there are good points to be made about which processed foods are a better nutritional value than others. I don't think the excerpts made those points.
I guess I'm not that overly sensitive to "real this" or "real that"...I swear, the longer I'm on this site, the more I realize that Real People are a bunch of overly sensitive pansy azzes.8 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »I hate it when someone decides what "real people" do. Real people do a lot of different things, depending on their personal needs. The obesity crisis isn't my crisis, I'm not trying to feed any picky eaters, and I'm not a fan of most processed foods that have more than one or two ingredients. My goals are to meet my macros and eat my vegetables. Frozen veggies aren't usually included under processed foods. I try to avoid anything canned, other than bottled tomato sauce, because I don't like the flavor. It's an inconvenient diet, and I don't bother with organic, but it tastes good.
Saying "real people" is just like saying "most people". The obesity crisis may not be YOUR crisis, but that doesn't mean that it's not a crisis and that it doesn't affect you and the people you love. Whether it's directly or indirectly, like having to pay more taxes into more healthcare and obesity programs. I feel like you're kind of missing the point and just focusing on the fact that what he's suggesting isn't what you do, so therefore, he doesn't have any good points.
You're missing my point that people do different things depending on their personal needs. I don't think that the reverse shaming of people who cook from scratch or buy local or organic foods is an especially good point.
I'm an avid cook and cook primarily with scratch ingredients and some minimally processed ingredients...I read the blog and I don't feel as though I've been reversed shamed...did you even read it? If that's what you got out of that, I really don't know what to say...
"Real people" was an especially poor choice of words, for a start. That's like saying that "real women have curves." Also, the author's category for processed food is so broad that it's meaningless. Nutritionists caution people to read labels and pay attention to added sugar, salt and fats, and that makes sense. They don't tell you that frozen or canned vegetables will make you fat, though, realistically, they're going to mention that the cooking process for canning destroys some nutrients.
I think there are good points to be made about which processed foods are a better nutritional value than others. I don't think the excerpts made those points.
I guess I'm not that overly sensitive to "real this" or "real that"...I swear, the longer I'm on this site, the more I realize that Real People are a bunch of overly sensitive pansy azzes.
That's funny, because I haven't called you any names, and yet you can't let a difference of opinion, explained respectfully, go by without getting personal.2 -
lithezebra wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »I hate it when someone decides what "real people" do. Real people do a lot of different things, depending on their personal needs. The obesity crisis isn't my crisis, I'm not trying to feed any picky eaters, and I'm not a fan of most processed foods that have more than one or two ingredients. My goals are to meet my macros and eat my vegetables. Frozen veggies aren't usually included under processed foods. I try to avoid anything canned, other than bottled tomato sauce, because I don't like the flavor. It's an inconvenient diet, and I don't bother with organic, but it tastes good.
Saying "real people" is just like saying "most people". The obesity crisis may not be YOUR crisis, but that doesn't mean that it's not a crisis and that it doesn't affect you and the people you love. Whether it's directly or indirectly, like having to pay more taxes into more healthcare and obesity programs. I feel like you're kind of missing the point and just focusing on the fact that what he's suggesting isn't what you do, so therefore, he doesn't have any good points.
You're missing my point that people do different things depending on their personal needs. I don't think that the reverse shaming of people who cook from scratch or buy local or organic foods is an especially good point.
I'm an avid cook and cook primarily with scratch ingredients and some minimally processed ingredients...I read the blog and I don't feel as though I've been reversed shamed...did you even read it? If that's what you got out of that, I really don't know what to say...
"Real people" was an especially poor choice of words, for a start. That's like saying that "real women have curves." Also, the author's category for processed food is so broad that it's meaningless. Nutritionists caution people to read labels and pay attention to added sugar, salt and fats, and that makes sense. They don't tell you that frozen or canned vegetables will make you fat, though, realistically, they're going to mention that the cooking process for canning destroys some nutrients.
I think there are good points to be made about which processed foods are a better nutritional value than others. I don't think the excerpts made those points.
I guess I'm not that overly sensitive to "real this" or "real that"...I swear, the longer I'm on this site, the more I realize that Real People are a bunch of overly sensitive pansy azzes.
That's funny, because I haven't called you any names, and yet you can't let a difference of opinion, explained respectfully, go by without getting personal.
I was referring to people in general who seem to get all bent out of shape here over nonsense. People seem to have this crazy need to be offended and butt hurt by everything...it's just weird.6 -
i like to make breads, pastas, cakes, sauces and more from scratch... i also have a long lasting commited relationship with taco bell and fun fetti cake. Moderation is the spice of life.8
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My experience has been that cooking more from scratch is easier and more flexible than relying on "convenience food"
0 -
tldr; but i'm in the thread for the controversy.
YEAH! I'M OFFENDED!
*getting my pitchforks ready*
Ǝ---ლ(´ڡ`ლ)3 -
my personal opinion on the obesity epidemic is more so on lack of activity. "processed" food depending on what you are talking about has been around for generations. Mcdonalds came out in 1940. 1940! almost 80 years ago. come on.
Wether you eat "processed" food or grow your own wheat, veggies, and slaughter your own animals i literally dont care. Live yo life.3 -
I like this post. My husband and I have been talking about our diets more, and how we'd like to eat a certain way but honestly don't have the time for making everything from scratch. So we keep the convenient stuff. Like he has frozen burritos most days for breakfast because I like to exercise in the morning, and easy breakfast makes that possible.
I'm all for eating everything from scratch if you have the desire and energy. But to shame others for different choices is wrong of course.3 -
lithezebra wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »I hate it when someone decides what "real people" do. Real people do a lot of different things, depending on their personal needs. The obesity crisis isn't my crisis, I'm not trying to feed any picky eaters, and I'm not a fan of most processed foods that have more than one or two ingredients. My goals are to meet my macros and eat my vegetables. Frozen veggies aren't usually included under processed foods. I try to avoid anything canned, other than bottled tomato sauce, because I don't like the flavor. It's an inconvenient diet, and I don't bother with organic, but it tastes good.
Saying "real people" is just like saying "most people". The obesity crisis may not be YOUR crisis, but that doesn't mean that it's not a crisis and that it doesn't affect you and the people you love. Whether it's directly or indirectly, like having to pay more taxes into more healthcare and obesity programs. I feel like you're kind of missing the point and just focusing on the fact that what he's suggesting isn't what you do, so therefore, he doesn't have any good points.
You're missing my point that people do different things depending on their personal needs. I don't think that the reverse shaming of people who cook from scratch or buy local or organic foods is an especially good point.
I'm an avid cook and cook primarily with scratch ingredients and some minimally processed ingredients...I read the blog and I don't feel as though I've been reversed shamed...did you even read it? If that's what you got out of that, I really don't know what to say...
"Real people" was an especially poor choice of words, for a start. That's like saying that "real women have curves." Also, the author's category for processed food is so broad that it's meaningless. Nutritionists caution people to read labels and pay attention to added sugar, salt and fats, and that makes sense. They don't tell you that frozen or canned vegetables will make you fat, though, realistically, they're going to mention that the cooking process for canning destroys some nutrients.
I think there are good points to be made about which processed foods are a better nutritional value than others. I don't think the excerpts made those points.
You're making the article's point for them. The point is that these people demonize "processed food" while using a definition of basically "I know it when I see it", which varies from person to person. How is one person supposed to know that the processing that frozen vegetables go through doesn't make them "processed", but the processing canned soup goes through does? How do you know that every person you've ever talked to agrees on the boundary between "okay processing" and "PROCESSED FOOD ABORT ABORT"? There's no objective definition for processed. People just take the extreme end and make arguments based on it, and then generalize to all "processed food".
I don't think we're talking about peer reviewed studies or nutritionists here either. We're talking about chatting to your friends and having them confidently tell you that the reason you're not losing weight as fast as you would like is because of all those convenience foods. Or people that post even on this forum and give out bad advice like "no one gains weight if they avoid processed food and make all their food themselves" (I saw that happen just a week or two ago). It seems like you agree with every premise in the article, but still want to argue because ????????6 -
I'll sit over here eating my chicken breast, baby spinach salad and French fries while washing them down with bourbon, and try not to look too offended by all these micro-aggressions2
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"Women were expected to spend most of their day in the kitchen, preparing, washing, chopping, braising, making pastry. All women, whether they wanted to or not, were expected to cook all day, every day. And to do the laundry. And to care for the children. And keep the house clean. Many would have backbreaking work to do on their allotment. Women were trapped in this cycle because it was expected of them – the requirements of managing a household forced them into servitude and anyone who rejected this risked social exclusion."
Hmm...where to start?
While I would never want anyone "chained" to a kitchen, "excluded" from society, and "trapped" in "servitude," I do believe that most families would benefit from having someone (male/female/what-have-you) making care of the family nutrition their priority.
I wash, chop, braise, and keep the house clean most days. But I am not trapped in servitude; I'm just taking care of my family.
It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.
1
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