"You don't build muscles in a deficite"

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  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
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    I just personally think that something like a pound of muscle in half a year or however much can be expected is not really worth the argument here.
  • wilsoncl6
    wilsoncl6 Posts: 1,280 Member
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    Also, you can't underestimate the impact of good genetics in the equation. I've seen people gain 10 lbs of muscle in 2 months while in a deficit, but for the most part you have to have a good supportive diet, plenty of rest, already have a sufficient level of body fat (be fat or obese) and a good amount of intensity in your strength training program. It doesn't hurt if you're male, young, a newbie to lifting or haven't lifted in a long while. All of these factors play a role and if you have a good combination of all of these, you could see an explosion of muscle growth that will taper off.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
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    stevencloser wrote: »
    I just personally think that something like a pound of muscle in half a year or however much can be expected is not really worth the argument here.

    But your results are individual and unique to you. Same as the athletes in the study who gained around 2% LBM in a few weeks had results unique to them. Good chance that they have superior genetic gifts and trained well of course.

    I could put on muscle at a remarkable rate in my golden years of 16 - 23 while losing weight, couldn't do that now. That doesn't mean every young male can do the same - maybe I was genetically gifted too?

    Probably I couldn't even match the results I got a few years ago (roughly 3.5lbs gained in 6 months) as I'm closer to my training peak and leaner.
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
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    sijomial wrote: »
    stevencloser wrote: »
    I just personally think that something like a pound of muscle in half a year or however much can be expected is not really worth the argument here.

    But your results are individual and unique to you. Same as the athletes in the study who gained around 2% LBM in a few weeks had results unique to them. Good chance that they have superior genetic gifts and trained well of course.

    I could put on muscle at a remarkable rate in my golden years of 16 - 23 while losing weight, couldn't do that now. That doesn't mean every young male can do the same - maybe I was genetically gifted too?

    Probably I couldn't even match the results I got a few years ago (roughly 3.5lbs gained in 6 months) as I'm closer to my training peak and leaner.

    It's a lot of perception bias from the optical illusion caused by getting leaner and most if not all lbm measurement methods not being all that good in many cases is my guess.
    Strength can easily be measured but we kinda suck at accurate lbm tracking when even dexa is supposedly not much better than any other method if what was said in the video from this thread is to be believed https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10377221/alan-thrall-video-on-the-accuracy-of-body-fat-testing#latest

    If some study shows almost everyone having results equalling to "superior genetic outlier", something doesn't look right.
  • cgvet37
    cgvet37 Posts: 1,189 Member
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    A lot of it depends on how new you are to weight training. Your body will react differently overtime, and depending on how close you are to your genetic limits. I took a few years off do to a medical condition. I personally have lost fat and have gained muscle in the last three months eating at a deficit. I realize as time goes on, that will change. To say it's not possible, well, is true depending on the individual and where they are in their fitness journey. Most people who ask are just starting out in their journey.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
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    stevencloser wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    stevencloser wrote: »
    I just personally think that something like a pound of muscle in half a year or however much can be expected is not really worth the argument here.

    But your results are individual and unique to you. Same as the athletes in the study who gained around 2% LBM in a few weeks had results unique to them. Good chance that they have superior genetic gifts and trained well of course.

    I could put on muscle at a remarkable rate in my golden years of 16 - 23 while losing weight, couldn't do that now. That doesn't mean every young male can do the same - maybe I was genetically gifted too?

    Probably I couldn't even match the results I got a few years ago (roughly 3.5lbs gained in 6 months) as I'm closer to my training peak and leaner.

    It's a lot of perception bias from the optical illusion caused by getting leaner and most if not all lbm measurement methods not being all that good in many cases is my guess.
    Strength can easily be measured but we kinda suck at accurate lbm tracking when even dexa is supposedly not much better than any other method if what was said in the video from this thread is to be believed https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10377221/alan-thrall-video-on-the-accuracy-of-body-fat-testing#latest

    If some study shows almost everyone having results equalling to "superior genetic outlier", something doesn't look right.

    I'm genuinely confused why you are so wedded to the idea that your crappy results mean everyone will get the same results to the extent you start guessing or assuming my numbers must wrong without even asking where I got them from? I have picked up a bit of experience from 40 years of training, not some kiddy that mistakes muscle definition improvements for increased size.

    Perhaps when you have been training longer you will see that if you take a group of people and they train identically their results will be still be wildly different.
    I used to coach a youth rugby team and saw every result from astonishing (he later switched to body building as he clearly had a gift for it) to no discernible difference over the course of a season (he later switched to soccer as his lack of size held him back) despite working equally hard.
  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
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    This is a good discussion so far.

    Going beyond building muscle in a deficit, I think that some of the people who preach that calorie surpluses are more efficient than recomp for gaining muscle ignore the fact that the decision to do that or not to do that can't be made in a vacuum. Other factors come into play, including the psychological stress of adding fat (this is hard for many people, especially those who have lost a lot of weight previously), skin issues (if you lose fat last in your stomach and have permanently stretched skin do you want to add more fat to that area again?), how long it takes some folks to lean out (going beyond CICO into hormones and the ability/inability to comfortably sustain a deficit, etc.), and so forth. I know that, for me, the efficiency of gaining muscle in a bulk does not outweigh the other factors that going into the decision of whether or not to do it.
  • random_123
    random_123 Posts: 9 Member
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    When I started boxing in my early 20s, the diet they put us on was ridiculous - porridge (oatmeal), brown rice, fish x 2, chicken x 1. Portion size always small. Basically a cutting diet and EVERY day.

    I'm only speaking anecdotally of course, but when I started boxing I was "skinny fat" and when I gave up I was of a muscular appearance and all the important "inches" (well except the most important one!) like biceps/chest etc had increased so it wasn't a matter of perception.

    Not that I'm adding anything since this has all been covered, and better ... just saying I've done it.
  • distinctlybeautiful
    distinctlybeautiful Posts: 1,041 Member
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    It's not all about newbie gains though, unless I'm misinterpreting how long someone is a newbie. I've lost seventeen pounds of fat and gained almost five pounds of muscle over the last year, and some of that muscle came after I'd already been lifting for six months.

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