Battling side effects
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markswife1992 wrote: »bchrispell wrote: »Dont want to do the vasectomy because I would like more kids eventually I think or would at least like the option.
Vasectomies can be reversed.
ooooo i have to disagree. once a man has a vasect, his sperm count decreases over time. if it's reversed later, he could have a zero (or close to) count. i would NEVER consider any surgical methods "REVERSABLE"
I'm not saying for them to wait 20 years. Also, sperm can be frozen. More alternative methods that allow her to not be on a form of BC.
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markswife1992 wrote: »bchrispell wrote: »Dont want to do the vasectomy because I would like more kids eventually I think or would at least like the option.
Vasectomies can be reversed.
ooooo i have to disagree. once a man has a vasect, his sperm count decreases over time. if it's reversed later, he could have a zero (or close to) count. i would NEVER consider any surgical methods "REVERSABLE"
I'm not saying for them to wait 20 years. Also, sperm can be frozen. More alternative methods that allow her to not be on a form of BC.
freezing sperm is a good idea but then you have to deal with doing an IUI or other fertility treatments. most people don't have the money or resources to do that. and it doesn't take 20 years to deplete sperm count. it starts decreasing soon after surgery; certainly far less than 20 years.
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markswife1992 wrote: »markswife1992 wrote: »bchrispell wrote: »Dont want to do the vasectomy because I would like more kids eventually I think or would at least like the option.
Vasectomies can be reversed.
ooooo i have to disagree. once a man has a vasect, his sperm count decreases over time. if it's reversed later, he could have a zero (or close to) count. i would NEVER consider any surgical methods "REVERSABLE"
I'm not saying for them to wait 20 years. Also, sperm can be frozen. More alternative methods that allow her to not be on a form of BC.
freezing sperm is a good idea but then you have to deal with doing an IUI or other fertility treatments. most people don't have the money or resources to do that. and it doesn't take 20 years to deplete sperm count. it starts decreasing soon after surgery; certainly far less than 20 years.
ok. but I also posted a link to a book to help her do something without any medical involvement, so ... alternative methods.0 -
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I think we're losing sight of the issue at hand here and that is: the only scientific, physiologically proven way for one to gain or not lose weight is by eating more than the body needs. The pill or other BC doesn't magically create an energy surplus for the body to be able to then store as fat. It's just not a thing.
There could be other health issues at play but again, they do not in themselves cause weight gain. They could cause appetite increases or metabolism slow down, nutrient malabsorption (this one would cause weight loss) but they are not on their own to blame for weight loss and gain. That still boils down to what is going in your mouth.
Whilst you are waiting for further testing my advice is to tighten up your logging. Weigh all solids on a food scale (cups and spoons are meant for liquids, wildly inaccurate for solids) measure all liquids in cups or a jug. Make sure entries you are using are the correct ones in the database by cross checking label info (catches a lot of people out that one) and do this every single day for 6-8 weeks. That will give you enough accurate data to work with. At the moment it's all a bit vague and at your weight, even with some underlying health issues, if you were truly in anything of a deficit the weight would be dropping.3 -
Another vote for paraguard....or a similar copper IUD. I'm in Canada, so things might be a little different. 6 years ago I had paraguard, it cost me $300 and was told it would last 3-5 years. Had it taken out to have another baby and have had another brand copper IUD fitted for $60 that is supposed to last 2-3 years. I've been on hormone birth control before, didn't do anything for my appetite, but made me so damn emotional. Anyways, I don't even notice it's there, so it's not a big deal.0
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VintageFeline wrote: »I think we're losing sight of the issue at hand here and that is: the only scientific, physiologically proven way for one to gain or not lose weight is by eating more than the body needs. The pill or other BC doesn't magically create an energy surplus for the body to be able to then store as fat. It's just not a thing.
There could be other health issues at play but again, they do not in themselves cause weight gain. They could cause appetite increases or metabolism slow down, nutrient malabsorption (this one would cause weight loss) but they are not on their own to blame for weight loss and gain. That still boils down to what is going in your mouth.
Whilst you are waiting for further testing my advice is to tighten up your logging. Weigh all solids on a food scale (cups and spoons are meant for liquids, wildly inaccurate for solids) measure all liquids in cups or a jug. Make sure entries you are using are the correct ones in the database by cross checking label info (catches a lot of people out that one) and do this every single day for 6-8 weeks. That will give you enough accurate data to work with. At the moment it's all a bit vague and at your weight, even with some underlying health issues, if you were truly in anything of a deficit the weight would be dropping.
i am really not trying to be difficult, but dealing with other drugs and hormone issues, i have learned that it's not exactly CICO 100%.
i dont have info in front of me, but try researching hormone issues (such as PCOS) and drug interactions with weight gain w/o having any change in food/calorie intake and exercise.
also, i have a pituitary tumor, and before diagnosis, thought i was going mad b/c i would eat VERY LIttle and gained A TON Of weight. sometimes, it's not as simple as eating less.
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I agree with this 100%. I used to believe all the medications that I take (BCP, many pain meds and other meds that claim weight gain due to the masses) were responsible for me not being able to lose weight and even gain, but...the science is there. Too many calories (not too much food volume-wise) was the true culprit of me not being able to lose weight. Sure, the medication did increase my appetite, but I did eat more calories due to this. I've lost over 80lbs being on the same medication, so in reality, it was not the medication that made me fat, I did. I used to think "I don't eat very much, but I am gaining weight!". It was true, I didn't eat very much, but once I started logging my "not very much" by weighing absolutely everything I ate then logging accurately by comparing database entries with the food packaging, it turns out I was consuming way more calories than thought. It was crazy.VintageFeline wrote: »I think we're losing sight of the issue at hand here and that is: the only scientific, physiologically proven way for one to gain or not lose weight is by eating more than the body needs. The pill or other BC doesn't magically create an energy surplus for the body to be able to then store as fat. It's just not a thing.
Consume more calories than your body needs to maintain = weigh gain without a doubt. Consuming less than the body needs to maintain = weight loss.
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markswife1992 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »I think we're losing sight of the issue at hand here and that is: the only scientific, physiologically proven way for one to gain or not lose weight is by eating more than the body needs. The pill or other BC doesn't magically create an energy surplus for the body to be able to then store as fat. It's just not a thing.
There could be other health issues at play but again, they do not in themselves cause weight gain. They could cause appetite increases or metabolism slow down, nutrient malabsorption (this one would cause weight loss) but they are not on their own to blame for weight loss and gain. That still boils down to what is going in your mouth.
Whilst you are waiting for further testing my advice is to tighten up your logging. Weigh all solids on a food scale (cups and spoons are meant for liquids, wildly inaccurate for solids) measure all liquids in cups or a jug. Make sure entries you are using are the correct ones in the database by cross checking label info (catches a lot of people out that one) and do this every single day for 6-8 weeks. That will give you enough accurate data to work with. At the moment it's all a bit vague and at your weight, even with some underlying health issues, if you were truly in anything of a deficit the weight would be dropping.
i am really not trying to be difficult, but dealing with other drugs and hormone issues, i have learned that it's not exactly CICO 100%.
i dont have info in front of me, but try researching hormone issues (such as PCOS) and drug interactions with weight gain w/o having any change in food/calorie intake and exercise.
also, i have a pituitary tumor, and before diagnosis, thought i was going mad b/c i would eat VERY LIttle and gained A TON Of weight. sometimes, it's not as simple as eating less.
Those are health issues that would impact your metabolism and hormones can cause one to retain a crap ton of water (which isn't fat but will still show as a gain on the scale). Does a reduced metabolism suck? Of course. Does that negate CICO. No. It is a scientific fact that remains regardless. The CO part may change and that explains why CI remaining unchanged causes weight gain or loss. That doesn't negate CICO.
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VintageFeline wrote: »
Those are health issues that would impact your metabolism and hormones can cause one to retain a crap ton of water (which isn't fat but will still show as a gain on the scale). Does a reduced metabolism suck? Of course. Does that negate CICO. No. It is a scientific fact that remains regardless. The CO part may change and that explains why CI remaining unchanged causes weight gain or loss. That doesn't negate CICO.
we'll have to agree to disagree.
"a crap ton of water weight" is NOT the issue. i did not gain 69 pounds of water weight. i did not eat enough calories to make sense of a 69 pound weight gain. it's meds + hormone issues + the pituitary tumor + PCOS. add it up and no matter how little i eat, i haven't lost, but gained.
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markswife1992 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »
Those are health issues that would impact your metabolism and hormones can cause one to retain a crap ton of water (which isn't fat but will still show as a gain on the scale). Does a reduced metabolism suck? Of course. Does that negate CICO. No. It is a scientific fact that remains regardless. The CO part may change and that explains why CI remaining unchanged causes weight gain or loss. That doesn't negate CICO.
we'll have to agree to disagree.
"a crap ton of water weight" is NOT the issue. i did not gain 69 pounds of water weight. i did not eat enough calories to make sense of a 69 pound weight gain. it's meds + hormone issues + the pituitary tumor + PCOS. add it up and no matter how little i eat, i haven't lost, but gained.
Humour me, because I'm genuinely interested. How, using science, do you explain the body storing 69lbs without an energy excess (CI) and CO unchanged due to said medical issues and medication? What does medication and your pituitary tumour do in the body that makes calories and the body's energy usage irrelevant and cause fat gain? How does the body come up with an excess of energy (a scientifically irrefutable requirement to fat gain) when it isn't receiving enough due to calorie restriction?5 -
bchrispell wrote: »bchrispell wrote: »Thanks to you all. I do already measure my food and log everything I eat and I log most activity. Hard to log what I walk at work because it is so busy I can track it all while I am there. My doctor specifically said that weight gain was a side effect that hit many women. I cut out a few thinks like pop and such after it was placed and started eating more fruits and vegetables and less "junk" food. With in the first week of having the IUD placed I gained 10 pounds. Gain has been slow ever since no matter what I try. I am considering having it taken out because I am having some other issues that caused some one to ask if I had one said they had the same things just trying to work out what I want to go on instead. Dont want to do the vasectomy because I would like more kids eventually I think or would at least like the option.
Did you eat 24500 calories over your "maintenance calories" that week? Are you sure the weight gained is "fat gain" and not water weight and bloating due to the influx of hormones.. moreover progesterone and effects on leptin and ghrelin to have gained any "fat" that week? this is not real weight but the body adusting or trying to adjust to hormonal changes due to the IUD..
Now any subsequent fat gains after that first week are due to the effects it has on the hungry hormones causing you to eat more.
I would get off this and perhaps find a non hormonal birth control or work closely with your doctor and find out the best avenue to understand the effects this has on your body and any weight gain and see if there is something else to try out instead.
It may have been water I am not sure. I did not know that the hormone change from birth control could cause that.
More likely to be water than 10lbs of fat gain from nowhere. You eat to gain weight.2 -
This. Why are people arguing against proven science? As I said in my other post the volume of the food does not indicate amount of calories. One can eat a lot of low calorie food or a small amount of high calorie food and eat the same number of calories.VintageFeline wrote: »markswife1992 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »
Those are health issues that would impact your metabolism and hormones can cause one to retain a crap ton of water (which isn't fat but will still show as a gain on the scale). Does a reduced metabolism suck? Of course. Does that negate CICO. No. It is a scientific fact that remains regardless. The CO part may change and that explains why CI remaining unchanged causes weight gain or loss. That doesn't negate CICO.
we'll have to agree to disagree.
"a crap ton of water weight" is NOT the issue. i did not gain 69 pounds of water weight. i did not eat enough calories to make sense of a 69 pound weight gain. it's meds + hormone issues + the pituitary tumor + PCOS. add it up and no matter how little i eat, i haven't lost, but gained.
Humour me, because I'm genuinely interested. How, using science, do you explain the body storing 69lbs without an energy excess (CI) and CO unchanged due to said medical issues and medication? What does medication and your pituitary tumour do in the body that makes calories and the body's energy usage irrelevant and cause fat gain? How does the body come up with an excess of energy (a scientifically irrefutable requirement to fat gain) when it isn't receiving enough due to calorie restriction?
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@VintageFeline I agree 100% with CI/CO. Using MFP I am well on my way to being at a healthy weight for the first time in my life. HOWEVER, respectfully, I don't think it's helpful to talk to people with genuine medical issues that cause metabolic changes in this way. Medication, a pituitary tumor, or PCOS do not cause energy (calories) to be magically created.
But have some empathy! It's truly soul sucking to have a genuine condition and be lowering & lowering your calories and still gaining. Yes, it's helpful to educate people about using a food scale. Etc. But when you don't approach people with empathy, they can't hear you. I didn't use a food scale back when I was sick & gaining, but I'm still 100% sure I ate less than I'm eating now. I was wearing thick sweaters in the middle of the summer for gosh sakes - my metabolism was a mess! Of course if I'd known accurately what my BMR had dropped to, I could have prevented weight gain by eating the correct amount of calories. But when people are really sick, sometimes that's not feasible.
@markswife1992 Pituitary tumors are a huge deal. I don't think people here are understanding that. Plus the PCOS doesn't make it easy by itself. I encourage you to keep advocating for yourself with your medical team until you have the answers you need to be as healthy as it's possible for you to be. I've been down the illness rabbit hole, and it's terrible down there. I wish you the best.
In the meantime, what folks suggested about weighing all solid food in grams is valid. Plus checking the entries you're using. Try doing that and see if you can slow the gain while you look for answers. Good luck.3 -
Can_Do_Gal wrote: »@VintageFeline I agree 100% with CI/CO. Using MFP I am well on my way to being at a healthy weight for the first time in my life. HOWEVER, respectfully, I don't think it's helpful to talk to people with genuine medical issues that cause metabolic changes in this way. Medication, a pituitary tumor, or PCOS do not cause energy (calories) to be magically created.
But have some empathy! It's truly soul sucking to have a genuine condition and be lowering & lowering your calories and still gaining. Yes, it's helpful to educate people about using a food scale. Etc. But when you don't approach people with empathy, they can't hear you. I didn't use a food scale back when I was sick & gaining, but I'm still 100% sure I ate less than I'm eating now. I was wearing thick sweaters in the middle of the summer for gosh sakes - my metabolism was a mess! Of course if I'd known accurately what my BMR had dropped to, I could have prevented weight gain by eating the correct amount of calories. But when people are really sick, sometimes that's not feasible.
@markswife1992 Pituitary tumors are a huge deal. I don't think people here are understanding that. Plus the PCOS doesn't make it easy by itself. I encourage you to keep advocating for yourself with your medical team until you have the answers you need to be as healthy as it's possible for you to be. I've been down the illness rabbit hole, and it's terrible down there. I wish you the best.
In the meantime, what folks suggested about weighing all solid food in grams is valid. Plus checking the entries you're using. Try doing that and see if you can slow the gain while you look for answers. Good luck.
You're adding a tone to my posts that isn't there, projecting. I added plenty of caveats about health conditions impacting metabolism, I refuted the argument that it negates CICO and pointed out that it just changes the equation, not alter the science. I also said it absolutely does suck to have a condition with those side effects. What's not empathetic about that?
Also, the OP has no known medical conditions at this point, just an assertion that BC is somehow responsible for gaining and an inability to lose weight. Someone coming in with their own awful medical conditions isn't really helpful and can potentially allow someone to make even more excuses for themselves that just don't exist.
And I myself have a medical condition that had me on medication that caused weight gain. Except it didn't. It increased my appetite, potentially slowed my metabolism a little (not enough research for this to be an absolute assertion) and those things combined with me eating too much, sometimes a little too much, sometimes a lot too much, led me to gain a significant amount of weight in a relatively short period of time. And I was already overweight.
Only when I got honest about my intake and tracked honestly, accurately and consistently was I able to lose weight. I am currently off meds but there's potential for me to go back on them, it will not be an excuse for me to gain weight. I am also on the pill and at no point has it ever occurred to me to use that as a reason for any of my weight issues over the years.2 -
VintageFeline wrote: »I think we're losing sight of the issue at hand here and that is: the only scientific, physiologically proven way for one to gain or not lose weight is by eating more than the body needs.
Assuming a normal, healthy metabolism. Not everybody is lucky enough to have one of those.
In the OPs shoes, I would be getting the Mirena out, visiting an endocrinologist and putting the responsibility for birth control on the husband for a change.4 -
azulvioleta6 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »I think we're losing sight of the issue at hand here and that is: the only scientific, physiologically proven way for one to gain or not lose weight is by eating more than the body needs.
Assuming a normal, healthy metabolism. Not everybody is lucky enough to have one of those.
In the OPs shoes, I would be getting the Mirena out, visiting an endocrinologist and putting the responsibility for birth control on the husband for a change.
And ignore everything else I have posted? Even a lower than average metabolism is capable of weight loss, it just changes the CI required to lose weight. Accurate consistent logging would really help to pinpoint if this is the case. OP hasn't done this yet, has tests lined up and indicates no health issues.
*Finds wall, bangs head.2 -
Thanks to all who posted I truly appreciate the feedback. I do not have the Mirena IUD anymore. It dislocated and went through my uterus info abomination cavity. This was discovered after finding out I was pregnant. After having my daughter via emergency cesarean I had my tubes tied so no longer using any BC. I have dropped down to less than 300 pounds for the first time in a long time after my daughter's birth, money of which was list during pregnancy. Now have a food scale and measure everything. Stuck in a rut but hoping to come out of it soon. Have been in same three pound range for over a month. Again thanks everyone for your help.9
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switch to a copper iud. no hormones. and they last 10 years.0
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cerise_noir wrote: »
This. Why are people arguing against proven science? As I said in my other post the volume of the food does not indicate amount of calories. One can eat a lot of low calorie food or a small amount of high calorie food and eat the same number of calories.VintageFeline wrote: »markswife1992 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »
Those are health issues that would impact your metabolism and hormones can cause one to retain a crap ton of water (which isn't fat but will still show as a gain on the scale). Does a reduced metabolism suck? Of course. Does that negate CICO. No. It is a scientific fact that remains regardless. The CO part may change and that explains why CI remaining unchanged causes weight gain or loss. That doesn't negate CICO.
we'll have to agree to disagree.
"a crap ton of water weight" is NOT the issue. i did not gain 69 pounds of water weight. i did not eat enough calories to make sense of a 69 pound weight gain. it's meds + hormone issues + the pituitary tumor + PCOS. add it up and no matter how little i eat, i haven't lost, but gained.
Humour me, because I'm genuinely interested. How, using science, do you explain the body storing 69lbs without an energy excess (CI) and CO unchanged due to said medical issues and medication? What does medication and your pituitary tumour do in the body that makes calories and the body's energy usage irrelevant and cause fat gain? How does the body come up with an excess of energy (a scientifically irrefutable requirement to fat gain) when it isn't receiving enough due to calorie restriction?
I think because it’s easier to blame something other than ourselves. I certainly did. When my hypothyroidism was diagnosed, I gained and gained weight. I swore to my doctor I was eating 900 calories a day and still exercising.
Here’s the thing, looking back, I wasn’t carefully tracking my intake. I was guess-timating. I wasn’t eating that little. And while I was exercising, I wasn’t using any device to track it. It’s likely the fatigue from my condition, before we found the right med dose, lowered the intensity of my workouts. And slowed my NEAT down as well. Hind sight’s always 29/20, right?
I felt so helpless and out of control. I was doing everything “right” and the weight kept coming. I wanted desperately to believe “I” wasn’t the problem—it was my metabolism. I had no control over that. Sure, the thyroid thing was whack, but it was a really small piece of what was going on. I was convinced I had a “bad metabolism” and the weight gain was beyond my control. Sure, I had the hypothyroid thing, but I could have made many, many adjustments along the way that lessened the impact. I just didn’t know how. And to be honest, I didn’t really try. I thought I did, but I didn’t.
It took me a long time, and out growing all my clothes by many sizes due to the 100+ pounds I gained, to realize I was the problem. But the good thing was i realized I was also the solution.3 -
@karen8787 I ended up getting my tubes tied. When I ended up pregnant with an IUD decided to do something a little more reliable than birth control.
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@Psychgrrl Thank you for sharing your story. I love seeing what others have overcome. Helps me to realize I can do it to. Just have to push a little harder every day.
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@Blshumway2010 You absolutely can! It won't happen overnight, but it will happen if you trust the process and stick with it through all the ups and downs and ons and offs. I lost 117-ish pounds overall and am in better shape than I was two decades ago before it all went to heck.1
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