Heavy Lifting to maintain muscle without compromising running progress?

If you like running, just keep running and eat a little less, or eat the same and run a little more. Lifting is good for you but it's not magic. Runners are plenty lean. I lost weight just doing jazzercise and didn't get 'skinnyfat', just skinny. Just go slow with the weight loss.

If you WANT to lift, you can do a lot without a gym, if you have a bar and plates. I do deadlifts, squats, and sometimes overhead press.

Also want to put a plug in for yoga here. If you are wanting to build definition and strength in upper body, yoga is a good start, and all the stretching is good for mobility for running.

Right now I run 5 days a week and do Stronglifts 5x5 2 days. In the winter, I run 4 and lift 3. I just make sure I lift on rest or easy run days and always have one full rest day with nothing more than walking (usually after long run day). Right now I do SUN rest; MON AM lift, PM easy run; TUES run; WED run; THUR lift; FRI run; SAT long run.

Don't ignore legs - deadlifts & squats have really helped my running. Hills are so much easier now.

The Stronglifts routine I do now does involve equipment, but I've heard great things about bodyweight routines like NerdFitness, You Are Your Own Gym and Convict Conditioning.

i'm a big fan of 5/3/1, and there are many ways to modify the program to 2-3 days a week, and being beneficial to your running.

don't worry too much about messing up your running, as the benefits will be very apparent in the beginning. as you progress in a year or so, you might notice your lifts aren't getting stronger and/or your running is not improving or even suffering. you'll know that at this point, you have probably reached the point where you can't improve on one without the other dwindling.

OP, I run daily, and I have been neglecting to lift for the past year (prior to that I lifted at least a handful of times a week, just doing almost a circuit style training with 10-30 pound weights mostly). I will tell you, I was mostly injury free during that time, and my pace was better, after an initial adjustment period of course. The first few weeks you may need to scale back a little on your runs as you introduce weight training, but then you should be right back where you were, with more stamina for longer workouts, better support overall, and less injuries. Good luck!

rileyleigh wrote: »

Hey guys,

I have been lazy for some time now and find myself at a point where I have some weight loss needed. I have always chosen to exercise alongside calorie counting to give me a few extra calories during the day.

Running is my exercise of choice. I love it, it is my favorite exercise. I am concerned however about the dreaded "skinny fat" phenomenon. If I lose weight via calorie deficit obtained by running without heavy lifting, I may be losing muscle mass.

I'm looking for heavy lifting routines that you have found successful that will not compromise my running efforts (meaning light on the legs I suppose).

Also any recommendations on workouts that do not actually involve gym equipment would be even better as I do not currently have access to one.

Thanks!

Well you won't get into heavy lifting without equipment but you really just need a good resistance program to ensure you limit muscle loss.

Look at convict conditioning and you are your own gym.

If you get access to the equipment look at Stronglifts 5x5 as a beginner program since 5/3/1 is considered intermediate.

Only thing you will have to remember if you want to do running and resistance training is pick which one is most important and do that first....

For example my lifting is most important to me so I won't run on leg days and I run after I have done my other lifts such as benching.

I run and swim. I find the swimming maintains the lean muscle through repetitive light resistance. It also supports the core making your running motion more efficient! Then running helps my swim performance through the cardio and helping my body work efficiently when my heart rate is up and O2 is down! I swim 3000yds when I go and run 4.5 out of 5 miles on the treadmill. I up each of those monthly by 500yd and .5mi to push myself! One more week and I'll up it again!

SezxyStef wrote: »

filovirus76 wrote: »

I run 4 days a week, do core/full body lifting in the gym 2 days a week. In a month I will add another day of running. If you want to improve your running times, I would focus on weights in this order, Top priority: core. Second priority: legs. Third priority: upper body.

I didn't find that at all.

I lifted for 2 years doing only compound movement such as squats and bench press.

I ran last summer 3x a week and I found that the lifting helped with my breathing and a lot with my legs not getting tired at all ever...

doing compound lifts and running I feel is more important than focusing on core then legs.

Muscle is extra weight. Too much muscle up top will slow you down. 2 seconds per pound per mile. Hence the reason you never see bulky elite distance runners/cyclers.

RGv2 wrote: »

filovirus76 wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

filovirus76 wrote: »

I run 4 days a week, do core/full body lifting in the gym 2 days a week. In a month I will add another day of running. If you want to improve your running times, I would focus on weights in this order, Top priority: core. Second priority: legs. Third priority: upper body.

I didn't find that at all.

I lifted for 2 years doing only compound movement such as squats and bench press.

I ran last summer 3x a week and I found that the lifting helped with my breathing and a lot with my legs not getting tired at all ever...

doing compound lifts and running I feel is more important than focusing on core then legs.

Muscle is extra weight. Too much muscle up top will slow you down. 2 seconds per pound per mile. Hence the reason you never see bulky elite distance runners/cyclers.

Really? I recomped from 165 to 172 and my running got noticeably...noticeably better in one year. I got faster, especially my 10k and was just an all around stronger runner. Who knew becoming a stronger runner would slow you down... #stumped.

Anacdotal evidence does not trump science. Most likely your cardio training increased your VO2 max and your lactic acid threshold.

I'm not arguing against compound lifts, except maybe bench press. All runners can and should be doing squats, deadlifts, lunges, etc. Core work is more than just mindless crunches/sit-ups. Burpees, planks, push-ups, lat pulldowns, overhead squats, farmer carries, TGUs, etc are all effective core work. But please help me understand your reasoning that bench press increases your VO intake.

SezxyStef wrote: »

filovirus76 wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

filovirus76 wrote: »

I run 4 days a week, do core/full body lifting in the gym 2 days a week. In a month I will add another day of running. If you want to improve your running times, I would focus on weights in this order, Top priority: core. Second priority: legs. Third priority: upper body.

I didn't find that at all.

I lifted for 2 years doing only compound movement such as squats and bench press.

I ran last summer 3x a week and I found that the lifting helped with my breathing and a lot with my legs not getting tired at all ever...

doing compound lifts and running I feel is more important than focusing on core then legs.

Muscle is extra weight. Too much muscle up top will slow you down. 2 seconds per pound per mile. Hence the reason you never see bulky elite distance runners/cyclers.

no one here that I am aware of is attempting to be an elite runner distance or otherwise....so there is that...

lifting using compound movements helps with running.

I try to maintain a respectable race weight. OP mentioned that he/she doesn't want to lose running progress.

There are people who are aware of weight and how it affects pace on this forum.

RGv2 wrote: »

filovirus76 wrote: »

RGv2 wrote: »

filovirus76 wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

filovirus76 wrote: »

I run 4 days a week, do core/full body lifting in the gym 2 days a week. In a month I will add another day of running. If you want to improve your running times, I would focus on weights in this order, Top priority: core. Second priority: legs. Third priority: upper body.

I didn't find that at all.

I lifted for 2 years doing only compound movement such as squats and bench press.

I ran last summer 3x a week and I found that the lifting helped with my breathing and a lot with my legs not getting tired at all ever...

doing compound lifts and running I feel is more important than focusing on core then legs.

Muscle is extra weight. Too much muscle up top will slow you down. 2 seconds per pound per mile. Hence the reason you never see bulky elite distance runners/cyclers.

Really? I recomped from 165 to 172 and my running got noticeably...noticeably better in one year. I got faster, especially my 10k and was just an all around stronger runner. Who knew becoming a stronger runner would slow you down... #stumped.

Anacdotal evidence does not trump science. Most likely your cardio training increased your VO2 max and your lactic acid threshold.

I'm not arguing against compound lifts, except maybe bench press. All runners can and should be doing squats, deadlifts, lunges, etc. Core work is more than just mindless crunches/sit-ups. Burpees, planks, push-ups, lat pulldowns, overhead squats, farmer carries, TGUs, etc are all effective core work. But please help me understand your reasoning that bench press increases your VO intake.

I never said it did, you're singling out one exercise in an entire program. So sue me for wanting to be a well rounded athlete.

Anyhow....the OP is about being able to lift heavy to maintain muscle without compromising running performance. I recomped, so I added a few lbs of muscle (increasing race weight approx 6lbs) and my running, all around, improved and I became a stronger runner incorporating such lifting into my routine. I really noticed it in my sprinting, my "kick" and 10K vastly improved.

Sorry for misunderstanding. When you mentioned compound lifts helped with your breathing, I thought you meant your overall VO2 max. Though it will add some, in no way will it add like doing consitant cardio.

Good for you for being well-rounded. But the OP specifically wanted ways that will not detriment his running. Too much muscle up top (even too much in legs) will add weight, and slow times. Here is a link to find your ideal race weight: http://racingweight.com/rwe/index.html#/

I'm glad you found yours through your recomp.

As to the OP: here is an example of one of my lifting routines
Two sets of planks and side planks
Alternating sets (x3)
-split squat with front foot elevated
-inverted rows
Alternating sets (x3)
-romanian deadlights
-push-ups with elevated feet using t-bars with the hands
5 minutes kettlebell swings

Each one of those lifts targets a specific muscle group, as well as most of the core muscles. Having a strong core is one of the best things for running. It increases stamina and delays fatigue.

If you want to know more, please reply to this thread asking. If not, I'm out of the discussion. It got a little too hostile.

filovirus76 wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

filovirus76 wrote: »

I run 4 days a week, do core/full body lifting in the gym 2 days a week. In a month I will add another day of running. If you want to improve your running times, I would focus on weights in this order, Top priority: core. Second priority: legs. Third priority: upper body.

I didn't find that at all.

I lifted for 2 years doing only compound movement such as squats and bench press.

I ran last summer 3x a week and I found that the lifting helped with my breathing and a lot with my legs not getting tired at all ever...

doing compound lifts and running I feel is more important than focusing on core then legs.

Muscle is extra weight. Too much muscle up top will slow you down. 2 seconds per pound per mile. Hence the reason you never see bulky elite distance runners/cyclers.

It a balancing act as running is a power to weight ratio thing and muscle types matter.

The whole "muscle is extra weight" is a lot more complex than the 2 second rule. What is more important is leanness in terms of bf% and not just concerns of "extra" muscle level. Sure, marathon runners will, all things considered, be faster as leaner individuals but we aren't all elite runners looking to hit those last seconds.

To address the OP's question - I'm also currently focusing on running as a priority and have concerns about losing muscle during weight loss. My lifting strength has suffered and I've had to rethink my lifting. Here are a few things I've had to consider that might help.

1) First off, I've tried increase protein so that I'm consuming a level close to 2.8 g/kg of lbm*

2) I accept that my time in the gym suffers and focus on full body routines that are core-centric. Leg exercises are kept light and focused on flexibility, stability, stretching and imbalances. (I have large legs from years of cycling and don't need to have further goals there). Hip flexibility and obliques, latissimus dorsi, erectors are one of my focus areas. Several physiology of running books exist and outline these types of exercises. These are not just focused on heavy lifting - although heavy lifting can help.

3) If the concern is muscle loss, then the lifting type needed will tend to be counter to running. The most effective prevention tends to include large muscle signaling - these will tend to be the gluteus, quads, chest and back. For leg work I try to keep weight low and reps high otherwise my runs suffer a lot.

4) I've personally wanted to moved away from straight lifting programs (focused on strength and size) in the weight room and more towards dynamic/plyometric and so called "functional" exercise (for lack of a better term) focused on flexibility. Working with these will also preserve or build lbm & strength.

Your choices are multiple - the program you design should be thought out to help and not hinder your running.





Ref:
*Protein needs for energy-restricted resistance-trained athletes are likely 2.3-3.1g/kg of FFM scaled upwards with severity of caloric restriction and leanness.
A systematic review of dietary protein during caloric restriction in resistance trained lean athletes: a case for higher intakes. (Helms ER, Zinn C, Rowlands DS, Brown SR.)