Are All Calorie Sources the Same?
Replies
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HarperWinterberry wrote: »The question is are all calories the same? NO, they are not.
No, that actually wasn't the question. But, then again, I wouldn't expect you to actually read and comprehend what is actually printed in front of you.7 -
HarperWinterberry wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »And having just fat or just protein would kill you too.
And eating nothing at all kills you even faster.
Actually, this is false. If all you have is water and sugar to survive, you will live longer if you just drink the water. The sugar will speed up the process of your death.
[citation needed]10 -
RichardD83 wrote: »We've probably all seen 'Sugar the bitter truth' and so you know how the body treats sugar and alcohol in the same way, as a poison. And they both cause direct weight gain.
Why doesn't my fitness pal do the same?
I've been hitting 2000 calories a day but not lost weight. I thought I could trust my fitness pal. Why doesn't it take into account the glycemic index. We all know how that works I'm sure. If I'm dumping lots of sugar in my blood it will be laid down as fat. So a calorie is not just a calorie. Shouldn't my fitness pal take this into account?
I'm not sure I can trust this app
It's not the APP... could it be YOU? If you have the knowledge that sugar turns into fat, then why eat "sugar" in processed carbs, alcohol or fruit with high sugar content??
Perhaps you didn't have this knowledge before but you have it now so make proper choices.. you can't blame an app for your own weight loss or gain.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »HarperWinterberry wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »And having just fat or just protein would kill you too.
And eating nothing at all kills you even faster.
Actually, this is false. If all you have is water and sugar to survive, you will live longer if you just drink the water. The sugar will speed up the process of your death.
[citation needed]
See, let's assume there are certain mechanisms that make this happen. Let's assume there is credible well designed research behind this claim. So what? Since we are talking unrealistic and unlikely claims, drinking too much water will kill you even faster. Eating nothing but cinnamon would kill you. Eating nothing but liver, nutmeg, chili peppers, baking powder, dried apricots...etc..etc. What does it prove exactly?6 -
This is SO not true. If sugar was poison, most of the world's population would be DEAD or dying.We've probably all seen 'Sugar the bitter truth' and so you know how the body treats sugar and alcohol in the same way, as a poison. And they both cause direct weight gain.
By the way, I've lost over 80lbs including sugar in my diet. Sometimes more sugar than other times. Am I dead? Um, nope. Am I dying? Hahaha...no where close! Perfect blood panel and one of the only people in my family that isn't at risk for heart disease.
Because it is unnecessary. Sugar doesn't affect most people in a negative way. Everyone is responsible for what they shove into their mouths. It shouldn't be up to a website/app to tell you what to eat.Why doesn't my fitness pal do the same?
You can. I have for the 85lbs that I lost. I use and trust MFP only. Many who have lost a lot of weight and kept it off trust mfp.I've been hitting 2000 calories a day but not lost weight. I thought I could trust my fitness pal.
Have you been weighing your food?
Are you eating back just a portion of your exercise calories or all of them?
What activity level did you choose? I recommend sedentary, then add your exercise calories and eat back only a portion of those.
Oh heck no. That is NOT how weigh gains happens.If I'm dumping lots of sugar in my blood it will be laid down as fat.
Weight gain happens when one consumes too many calories (too much energy)... so if you're gaining weight, you're eating more than you need to maintain your current weight. Where can excess energy go? It gets stored as fat. The only way to know for sure if you're eating too many calories is to weigh all your solid and semi solid food on a food scale in grams and choose accurate food database entries. Weigh butter and nut butters...it's easy to go over calories. Weigh nuts... weigh EVERYTHING and log for at least a month before you make drastic judgments.
You can't blame the app...it's just a tool...just like a food scale or measuring cups. Tighten your logging by weighing all the food that you consume on a food scale, choosing database entries that reflect the packaging of the food and by eating only a portion of exercise calories back.I'm not sure I can trust this app
A calorie is a measurement of energy.... all food is energy. Of COURSE a calorie is a calorie!!! Why wouldn't it be? You cannot even back up your claim and you're arguing against scientific proof. I am living PROOF that a calorie is a calorie. 85-90lbs down and I eat sugar every. Single. Day. Perfect blood panels. All I do is count calories (accurately by weighing all my food and logging with the correct information). When I ate clean healthy vegetarian diet without calorie counting, gained weight. A lot of weight. When I realised that restricting was actually NOT healthy for me, relaxed and started losing weight. ALL food is energy. All of it.HarperWinterberry wrote: »The question is are all calories the same? NO, they are not.6 -
HarperWinterberry wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »And having just fat or just protein would kill you too.
And eating nothing at all kills you even faster.
Actually, this is false. If all you have is water and sugar to survive, you will live longer if you just drink the water. The sugar will speed up the process of your death.
It's not really cool to make junk up and present it as fact.20 -
So full of disinformation I don't even know where to start. Sugar is not a poison like alcohol and is not treated the same way by the body. Basic physiology proves that to be completely false. Neither sugar nor alcohol "cause direct weight gain", that is also false. Weight gain is caused by a calorie intake in excess of your output.
As far as glycemic index, it's only a concern when eating a certain food in isolation. The GI is modulated when eaten with other, lower GI foods. And "dumping a lot of sugar in your blood" will result in fat gain only if you're in a caloric surplus. Obviously we don't "all know how that works", because that's not how it works.
It may be better to stop watching bogus propaganda/scaremongering videos and studying basic nutrition and physiology. Lustig is a known crackpot who preaches junk science.
The answer to the question in your thread title (Are all calorie sources the same?) is that speaking purely in terms of weight loss, they are. Speaking in terms of weight loss combined with body composition, performance and overall health, they are not.
This2 -
HarperWinterberry wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »And having just fat or just protein would kill you too.
And eating nothing at all kills you even faster.
Actually, this is false. If all you have is water and sugar to survive, you will live longer if you just drink the water. The sugar will speed up the process of your death.
Not actually true.
Nor relevant.
And if you only eat broccoli you will die.7 -
HarperWinterberry wrote: »If you got all of your daily calories from table sugar and water, here is what would happen to you:
1. First, and rather immediately, there would be a marked drop in the efficiency of your white blood cells, which would immediately compromise your immune system. Your immune system would be unable to recover so long as you continued consuming all of your daily calories from table sugar. You have now increased your risk of catching any viruses or bacteria you may encounter. But, don't worry. You probably aren't going to live long enough to die from something that you catch.
2. Next, your pancreas and adrenal glands will kick into overdrive. Your hormones will begin to become unbalanced and you'll start to feel extremely fatigued. You will not recover from this fatigue so long as you continue eating this way.
3. In order to metabolize all of the sugar you're consuming, your body will be forced to draw from its own nutrient reserves. If you don't have enough nutrients reserved (and you won't for long) you will then become unable to metabolize your own fat reserves. You will lose magnesium quickly (required for about 300 enzyme activities, give or take) and you'll lose chromium. You're really going to notice it when you lose your chromium, as it's a trace element that regulates, among other hormones, your insulin. This is when you'll begin to notice a change in your mental state and some will begin to have difficulty breathing.
4. At this point, it's only a matter of days for before your system completely shuts down.
As you continue to insist that the refined sugar is helping to keep you alive , consider this:
During the processing of sugarcane into refined sugar, here's what gets removed: chromium, manganese, cobalt, copper, zinc and magnesium. If you had eaten raw sugarcane instead of table sugar, you'd have lived a bit longer.
And consider this, too: All of the fruit you eat includes the minerals your body requires for you to metabolize them. This is one of the primary reasons the sugar in whole fruit doesn't damage your body the way added sugar does. Fruit doesn't strip nutrients from your body.
Who is going to get all their calories from table sugar and water?
Who says it would keep you alive?
NO ONE!
Not one person claims you can stay alive on this.
I imagine a similar thing would happen if you ate nothing but carrots. Or broccoli. Or beef. Or any other single solitary food.7 -
Since you are comparing surviving on sugar water or water alone how come you didn't list what happens to your body when you consume no calories at all?6
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singingflutelady wrote: »Since you are comparing surviving on sugar water or water alone how come you didn't list what happens to your body when you consume no calories at all?
I wanted to get there too but it's all just too much.
So how does table sugar and water compare to just water?6 -
I really don't get this sugar water shtick. I have never ever seen anyone ever even imply that you could live on sugar water. The mere suggestion is ridiculous. We are not hummingbirds. What on earth is the point of spending so much time and effort setting up such ludicrous strawmen?6
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HarperWinterberry wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »I really don't get this sugar water shtick. I have never ever seen anyone ever even imply that you could live on sugar water. The mere suggestion is ridiculous. We are not hummingbirds. What on earth is the point of spending so much time and effort setting up such ludicrous strawmen?
I'm trying to make a point as to why it's important to limit your added sugar intake. It's not just empty calories -- it's removing nutrients your body needs to function. Maybe you already know this, but some people just haven't figured it out yet.
You're not doing your cause any favors by making ludicrous arguments that have no basis in real life.9 -
HarperWinterberry wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »HarperWinterberry wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »I really don't get this sugar water shtick. I have never ever seen anyone ever even imply that you could live on sugar water. The mere suggestion is ridiculous. We are not hummingbirds. What on earth is the point of spending so much time and effort setting up such ludicrous strawmen?
I'm trying to make a point as to why it's important to limit your added sugar intake. It's not just empty calories -- it's removing nutrients your body needs to function. Maybe you already know this, but some people just haven't figured it out yet.
You're not doing your cause any favors by making ludicrous arguments that have no basis in real life.
Follow the science, this is pretty basic 101 stuff here.
I'm not that bright. Can you at least post sources for me?7 -
If you'd actually show some science, that would be a start?
Of course living on sugar would be bad for you. There is a myriad of things out there that trying to live on solely would do you damage. Your argument is fatally flawed.6 -
HarperWinterberry wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »I really don't get this sugar water shtick. I have never ever seen anyone ever even imply that you could live on sugar water. The mere suggestion is ridiculous. We are not hummingbirds. What on earth is the point of spending so much time and effort setting up such ludicrous strawmen?
I'm trying to make a point as to why it's important to limit your added sugar intake. It's not just empty calories -- it's removing nutrients your body needs to function. Maybe you already know this, but some people just haven't figured it out yet.
ALSO -- HUMMINGBIRDS WILL DIE if they live on bird feeders of sugar water alone. They need nutrients, too.
You know what you're forgetting?
PLEASURE.
People can enjoy things like desserts with added sugar in moderation and be just fine health wise. And not only that, they will enjoy savoring the simple pleasure of something delicious.
That dessert isn't going to strip them of all their nutrients. Just like a glass of wine per week isn't going to destroy a liver.4 -
Sugar does not remove nutrients from your body.
The anti-sugar propaganda just continues to get more ridiculous.11 -
Can you please share some sources mentioning how sugar removes nutrients from the body and how? I would love to read any scientific studies on the subject. Thanks.HarperWinterberry wrote: »it's removing nutrients your body needs to function.
I just find this strange since I consume sugar (sometimes more, sometimes less) and my blood panels are perfect.
But, I don't feel like finding Waldo right now!HarperWinterberry wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »HarperWinterberry wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »I really don't get this sugar water shtick. I have never ever seen anyone ever even imply that you could live on sugar water. The mere suggestion is ridiculous. We are not hummingbirds. What on earth is the point of spending so much time and effort setting up such ludicrous strawmen?
I'm trying to make a point as to why it's important to limit your added sugar intake. It's not just empty calories -- it's removing nutrients your body needs to function. Maybe you already know this, but some people just haven't figured it out yet.
You're not doing your cause any favors by making ludicrous arguments that have no basis in real life.
Follow the science, this is pretty basic 101 stuff here.
7 -
It is true that all calories are the same, but you must take into consideration the macros. If you hit 2.000 calories with 200+ Grams of fat or sugar, that means that you are not eating healthy at all. My fitness Pal is a great app that will DO help you losing body fat or weight (whatever you wanna call it, but have in mind that losing body fat, and weight are two very different things,) but you still have to eat a little bit clean. You can either have 2.000 calories by eating light/low fat/low sugar/or whatever it is on the market Ice cream, burgers, and fries, or hit those 2.000 calories with whole foods like oatmeal, white eggs, peanut butter, fruits, vegetables, cooked meats, etc that will help you to lose weight. It's just a matter of how bad you want things. You either want to lose weight, or eat that burger with fries, and have ice cream or donuts latter on.
What has been helping me to reach my goal is eating 500 calories below of what MFP told me to eat every day, and of course, watching my fats, sugars, protein, and sodium intake. If I go over my limits in any of these 4 Macros I call it a cheat day, and if at the end of the week (which is the day I track my progress) I haven't lose any body fat, I know for damn sure that it was my fault (Even though not all days were cheat days) and need to change the way I eat.
Hope this help you. Keep grinding!1 -
For real?HarperWinterberry wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »HarperWinterberry wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »HarperWinterberry wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »I really don't get this sugar water shtick. I have never ever seen anyone ever even imply that you could live on sugar water. The mere suggestion is ridiculous. We are not hummingbirds. What on earth is the point of spending so much time and effort setting up such ludicrous strawmen?
I'm trying to make a point as to why it's important to limit your added sugar intake. It's not just empty calories -- it's removing nutrients your body needs to function. Maybe you already know this, but some people just haven't figured it out yet.
You're not doing your cause any favors by making ludicrous arguments that have no basis in real life.
Follow the science, this is pretty basic 101 stuff here.
I'm not that bright. Can you at least post sources for me?
It's better you look up how sugar is metabolized on your own, that way you can find a source you trust. I encourage everyone to do their own research at this point.
I find it surprising that you make all these claims, yet no proof to back them up.. It would be best if you posted scientific sources where you learned the information from so that everyone can be....better educated....
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HarperWinterberry wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »HarperWinterberry wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »HarperWinterberry wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »I really don't get this sugar water shtick. I have never ever seen anyone ever even imply that you could live on sugar water. The mere suggestion is ridiculous. We are not hummingbirds. What on earth is the point of spending so much time and effort setting up such ludicrous strawmen?
I'm trying to make a point as to why it's important to limit your added sugar intake. It's not just empty calories -- it's removing nutrients your body needs to function. Maybe you already know this, but some people just haven't figured it out yet.
You're not doing your cause any favors by making ludicrous arguments that have no basis in real life.
Follow the science, this is pretty basic 101 stuff here.
I'm not that bright. Can you at least post sources for me?
It's better you look up how sugar is metabolized on your own, that way you can find a source you trust. I encourage everyone to do their own research at this point.
So you don't have one....cool.9 -
HarperWinterberry wrote: »If you got all of your daily calories from table sugar and water, here is what would happen to you:
1. First, and rather immediately, there would be a marked drop in the efficiency of your white blood cells, which would immediately compromise your immune system. Your immune system would be unable to recover so long as you continued consuming all of your daily calories from table sugar. You have now increased your risk of catching any viruses or bacteria you may encounter. But, don't worry. You probably aren't going to live long enough to die from something that you catch.
2. Next, your pancreas and adrenal glands will kick into overdrive. Your hormones will begin to become unbalanced and you'll start to feel extremely fatigued. You will not recover from this fatigue so long as you continue eating this way.
3. In order to metabolize all of the sugar you're consuming, your body will be forced to draw from its own nutrient reserves. If you don't have enough nutrients reserved (and you won't for long) you will then become unable to metabolize your own fat reserves. You will lose magnesium quickly (required for about 300 enzyme activities, give or take) and you'll lose chromium. You're really going to notice it when you lose your chromium, as it's a trace element that regulates, among other hormones, your insulin. This is when you'll begin to notice a change in your mental state and some will begin to have difficulty breathing.
4. At this point, it's only a matter of days for before your system completely shuts down.
As you continue to insist that the refined sugar is helping to keep you alive , consider this:
During the processing of sugarcane into refined sugar, here's what gets removed: chromium (93%), manganese (89%), cobalt (98%), copper (83%), zinc (98%) and magnesium (98%) . If you had eaten raw sugarcane instead of table sugar, you'd have lived a bit longer.
And consider this, too: All of the fruit you eat includes the minerals your body requires for you to metabolize them. This is one of the primary reasons the sugar in whole fruit doesn't damage your body the way added sugar does. Fruit doesn't strip nutrients from your body.
I would contest that you would die from kwashiorkor - severe protein deficiency - faster than you would deplete body stores of nutrients. While things like chromium deficiency can occur, they are vanishingly rare - the first documented case being someone who had been on IV fluids for almost four years.
Even with nutrient depletion, you'd live much longer on the sugar & water diet than you would on the water-only diet.
The "sugar suppresses immune function" came from a single study in the 1970s, focused on a single subset of white blood cells, and has never been successfully replicated - and in fact other researchers have reached the opposite conclusion, that sugar intake stimulates increased immune activity.11 -
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HarperWinterberry wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »HarperWinterberry wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »HarperWinterberry wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »I really don't get this sugar water shtick. I have never ever seen anyone ever even imply that you could live on sugar water. The mere suggestion is ridiculous. We are not hummingbirds. What on earth is the point of spending so much time and effort setting up such ludicrous strawmen?
I'm trying to make a point as to why it's important to limit your added sugar intake. It's not just empty calories -- it's removing nutrients your body needs to function. Maybe you already know this, but some people just haven't figured it out yet.
You're not doing your cause any favors by making ludicrous arguments that have no basis in real life.
Follow the science, this is pretty basic 101 stuff here.
I'm not that bright. Can you at least post sources for me?
It's better you look up how sugar is metabolized on your own, that way you can find a source you trust. I encourage everyone to do their own research at this point.
I tried.
I even googled phrases you used.
I can't seem to find this information.9 -
No, one does not have to eat clean to lose weight. I did a combination of clean and dirty eating and oh looky, 85lbs down. My blood panels are perfect. I am not at risk for heart disease like the rest of my family. I run, bike, kickbox... I actually gained while on a clean vegetarian diet. Why? I didn't count calories. Also, I restricted myself so much that I developed an eating disorder. So.... No, I eat all foods and that to me is a healthy mindset.It is true that all calories are the same, but you must take into consideration the macros. If you hit 2.000 calories with 200+ Grams of fat or sugar, that means that you are not eating healthy at all. My fitness Pal is a great app that will DO help you losing body fat or weight (whatever you wanna call it, but have in mind that losing body fat, and weight are two very different things,) but you still have to eat a little bit clean. You can either have 2.000 calories by eating light/low fat/low sugar/or whatever it is on the market Ice cream, burgers, and fries, or hit those 2.000 calories with whole foods like oatmeal, white eggs, peanut butter, fruits, vegetables, cooked meats, etc that will help you to lose weight. It's just a matter of how bad you want things. You either want to lose weight, or eat that burger with fries, and have ice cream or donuts latter on.
What has been helping me to reach my goal is eating 500 calories below of what MFP told me to eat every day, and of course, watching my fats, sugars, protein, and sodium intake. If I go over my limits in any of these 4 Macros I call it a cheat day, and if at the end of the week (which is the day I track my progress) I haven't lose any body fat, I know for damn sure that it was my fault (Even though not all days were cheat days) and need to change the way I eat.
Hope this help you. Keep grinding!
500 below what mfp told you? Why? Mfp aleady HAS a deficit built in which is what mfp tells you to eat. I'm confused...
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It is true that all calories are the same, but you must take into consideration the macros. If you hit 2.000 calories with 200+ Grams of fat or sugar, that means that you are not eating healthy at all. My fitness Pal is a great app that will DO help you losing body fat or weight (whatever you wanna call it, but have in mind that losing body fat, and weight are two very different things,) but you still have to eat a little bit clean. You can either have 2.000 calories by eating light/low fat/low sugar/or whatever it is on the market Ice cream, burgers, and fries, or hit those 2.000 calories with whole foods like oatmeal, white eggs, peanut butter, fruits, vegetables, cooked meats, etc that will help you to lose weight. It's just a matter of how bad you want things. You either want to lose weight, or eat that burger with fries, and have ice cream or donuts latter on.
What has been helping me to reach my goal is eating 500 calories below of what MFP told me to eat every day, and of course, watching my fats, sugars, protein, and sodium intake. If I go over my limits in any of these 4 Macros I call it a cheat day, and if at the end of the week (which is the day I track my progress) I haven't lose any body fat, I know for damn sure that it was my fault (Even though not all days were cheat days) and need to change the way I eat.
Hope this help you. Keep grinding!
@Ensmardj - sugars and sodium are not macros. Fat, protein and carbs are macros ( alcohol is technically a 4th macro)0 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »It is true that all calories are the same, but you must take into consideration the macros. If you hit 2.000 calories with 200+ Grams of fat or sugar, that means that you are not eating healthy at all. My fitness Pal is a great app that will DO help you losing body fat or weight (whatever you wanna call it, but have in mind that losing body fat, and weight are two very different things,) but you still have to eat a little bit clean. You can either have 2.000 calories by eating light/low fat/low sugar/or whatever it is on the market Ice cream, burgers, and fries, or hit those 2.000 calories with whole foods like oatmeal, white eggs, peanut butter, fruits, vegetables, cooked meats, etc that will help you to lose weight. It's just a matter of how bad you want things. You either want to lose weight, or eat that burger with fries, and have ice cream or donuts latter on.
What has been helping me to reach my goal is eating 500 calories below of what MFP told me to eat every day, and of course, watching my fats, sugars, protein, and sodium intake. If I go over my limits in any of these 4 Macros I call it a cheat day, and if at the end of the week (which is the day I track my progress) I haven't lose any body fat, I know for damn sure that it was my fault (Even though not all days were cheat days) and need to change the way I eat.
Hope this help you. Keep grinding!
@Ensmardj - sugars and sodium are not macros. Fat, protein and carbs are macros ( alcohol is technically a 4th macro)
Yep, messed up some Macros with Micros. Good catch0 -
HarperWinterberry wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »HarperWinterberry wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »HarperWinterberry wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »HarperWinterberry wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »I really don't get this sugar water shtick. I have never ever seen anyone ever even imply that you could live on sugar water. The mere suggestion is ridiculous. We are not hummingbirds. What on earth is the point of spending so much time and effort setting up such ludicrous strawmen?
I'm trying to make a point as to why it's important to limit your added sugar intake. It's not just empty calories -- it's removing nutrients your body needs to function. Maybe you already know this, but some people just haven't figured it out yet.
You're not doing your cause any favors by making ludicrous arguments that have no basis in real life.
Follow the science, this is pretty basic 101 stuff here.
I'm not that bright. Can you at least post sources for me?
It's better you look up how sugar is metabolized on your own, that way you can find a source you trust. I encourage everyone to do their own research at this point.
I tried.
I even googled phrases you used.
I can't seem to find this information.
You can't find how sugar is metabolized anywhere on the internet?
I am talking about your post where only sugar and water is consumed, white blood cells and all that in your post.4 -
Sooo.... if being on plain water would make you live longer than a sugar water infusion, why are patients in hospital who are unable to take nutrition by mouth often put on glucose drips?14
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