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Interesting way that people excuse their overweight / obesity
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Actually, CICO doesn't work for everyone, mostly because not all calories are created equal. Per MFP, I restricted calories to 1300/day. According to MFP I should have been losing weight, but I was gaining fat in my midsection. It wasn't until I learned about a protein/fat/carb nutrition plan that I realized the CICO flaw. When you restrict calories drastically, your body may go into starvation mode and want to store fat. And since a lot of my calories at the time were just carbs (fruit, veggies, dairy, grains), there was a lot for my body to convert to fat and store. Once I increased my calorie consumption and got 40% of my calories from protein, I was able to drop the weight. I also started eating 5 smaller meals/day, which revved up my metabolism and allowed me to eat even more food without burning more calories.
As for your friend's viewpoint, it makes sense that if you continue the same eating and exercising (or sedentary) habits, your body will stay the same weight. To say that's where the body "wants to be" is a bit of a stretch. More like where that person is comfortable. And of course if you go through steps to lose weight and then go back to old habits, you'll go back to your old weight. That's just common sense.
So much fatlogic wrapped up into one block.
I can't even begin... I don't know where to start lol..
I know where to start.
CICO does work for all.
Starvation mode doesn't exisit
if you were gaining weight you were eating more than you thought
timing of eating does not affect weight
Muscle revs the metabolism
Yup, weight loss isn't about WHAT you eat rather HOW MUCH.
You can only eat twinkies but eat under your TDEE calorie amount and you will lose weight.9 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Yep, people don't want to man/woman up and take responsibility.
Can you explain your reasoning. How would your body having a set point it wants to get back to relieve you of responsibility for weight control?2 -
One excuse I hear a lot is that calorie counting is hard.
I spend around 5 to 10 minutes a day logging my food if it's not saved over from the previous day. How is that harder than being 100 lbs overweight someone please tell me.
It is a lot harder to walk around with all the extra weight. For me my food diary is my best friend. It gives me complete control. The "logging is hard" excuse drives me nuts.16 -
I think there may be something to the 'set point'. I know I have a real tough time getting below 150. It's not a cop out or some means of refusing responsibility (whatever that means). I'm not saying I can't get below 150, just that it's a lot harder than it is to get down to 150.
I also start to feel fat if I get above 160. I'm not talking looks, I'm talking how I feel. I feel 'big', sluggish, like I need to lose weight. Below 150 I think I look like I could still lose a few, but I feel skinny. I feel hungry when I don't think I should be hungry.
No matter what the mirror shows I feel 'right' when I'm around 150 - 155 lbs.
But, it wasn't always this way. I can remember when I was younger I felt this way around 135 - 140 lbs.
If set point is a thing I think we alter it by becoming overly fat. And I'm not sure we can change it back once it's been altered. At least I haven't been able to. Maybe if I got down to 135 and maintained there for a year or so that would become my set point again. IDK I haven't had the motivation to get down there again yet.11 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Yep, people don't want to man/woman up and take responsibility.
Can you explain your reasoning. How would your body having a set point it wants to get back to relieve you of responsibility for weight control?
The reasoning is right there.
Because you can ascribe responsibility to your body ("my body wanted my set point more than I wanted to lose weight").
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One excuse I hear a lot is that calorie counting is hard.
I spend around 5 to 10 minutes a day logging my food if it's not saved over from the previous day. How is that harder than being 100 lbs overweight someone please tell me.
I've never been 100 lbs overweight so I can't answer your specific question, but I can address the first part. Calorie counting takes more than 5-10 min a day for me. WAY more. One meal takes longer than that. I would imagine this is because I eat differently than you. Most of meals are home prepared, contain lots of ingredients and I don't use recipes. Every bowl of chili is different from the last. Every omelet is different. Every meal is different. Saved entries must be edited every single time. Ingredients would have to be weighed every single meal. I couldn't just add a dash of that or a bit of this. I have to get out a container and scale and weigh it and then add it to the pot. It's frustrating and stressful and a royal PITA and I hate it.20 -
I like to think of it as simple math, if truly in deficit you must lose weight.
As I looked at the whole CICO model I also went deeper into the quality of the calories. I decided that if I am going to be immersed in a healthier lifestyle I should try to eat calories that come from nutritious foods.2 -
It is really easy, especially for those who found the path to success is easy (or they are done and forgot how difficult it was), to assume that absolutely everybody will find the path to successful weight loss just as easily. It is also easy to blame everyone who hasn't found success for being lazy and making excuses. So here is my explanation for how I became heavy to begin with... if you think this is my fault, I would ask for an explanation as to how you arrived at that conclusion:
When I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, I was underweight for my height and age (by about 10 lbs.). At that time, the treatment for type 1 was not nearly as advanced as it is today. Basically, the treatment was insulin shots for both a basal and bolus (some today still are on MDI, though many of us are on pumps that allow greater flexibility) and a rigid meal plan. The meal plan was setup to eat exactly the same amount of the same types of foods at exactly the same times every single day.
Within the first month, I gained 20 lbs. and was overweight. Within the first year, I had doubled my weight. Over the next 2 years (3 total), I had more than tripled my weight and was obese. This was on the insulin and meal plan given to me by a CDE and dietition working for an endocrinologist. Though I had more training on type 1 diabetes by the time I was 10 years old than most U.S. physicians (according to those who spent weeks training me), and though there was an even better educated healthcare team involved, a way to stop gaining didn't come until I went to a pump several years later - the pump allowed much more flexibility for timing and quantities of meals.
I started out taking pork insulin before things like Apidra, Humalog, Lantus, Levemir, and other newer insulins were available - you can forget about Symlin until much later. As technology, medications, and treatment methods improved, I was able to finally start losing weight... slowly. I had some pretty good losses at first, but then had serious low BG's. During the 4th month (so after 3.5 months), I had a serious low BG day. For about 14 hours, without taking a single bolus and while using a temp. basal of 0 during part of that time, I needed over 600g of carbs to treat persistent low BG. Things like that make it extremely difficult to lose weight. Sure, you could argue that I could just eat less... but that also means that I could die.
I've had unusual experiences with weight loss - times where I had long plateaus followed by large "whooshes" and a time where I've gained weight after cutting calories further (when losing weight slowly prior to cutting calories). I've seen huge increases in losses by changing macros without changing total calories. CICO is just not that simple for me.
So my point is that there are some of us who are not fat because we are lazy, but because of circumstances over which we have little or no control; and that CICO is not as straight-forward as many here believe.24 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Yep, people don't want to man/woman up and take responsibility.
Can you explain your reasoning. How would your body having a set point it wants to get back to relieve you of responsibility for weight control?
The reasoning is right there.
Because you can ascribe responsibility to your body ("my body wanted my set point more than I wanted to lose weight").
That would be reason why it might be hard to lose weight. Even in the OP's example his girlfriend says you can lose beyond the set point. So, I still don't get it unless you are changing it to someone saying "I can't lose because of my body's set point". Which is not what the OP or the post to which I replied said.2 -
I think one's body structure and (more importantly) hormones and hormone sensitivity can certainly affect outcomes...than said CICO is in fact the bottom line. And another thing that affects a person's outcome (related to hormones) is that people falsely assume cardio is important in weight loss. You get better results from weight training, explosive training (jumping, sprinting, HIIT, etc.), and cutting calories.2
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I don't know about set point, it might or might not be a thing. What I find really interesting is how naturally weight stable people (not necessarily thin) actually maintain within 5 pounds autonomously until something changes like their general level of activity... that's only a few dozen of calories. The precision It's amazing and fascinating without conscious control over the calories. I would love to find out the mechanisms that contribute to that, both physical and mental.
Maybe they do have a point, but worded better and more honestly it would sound something like "I'm eating comfortably at a certain weight, eating less is uncomfortable and I don't like to feel uncomfortable."
In a sense you do need to "force it" to get to a certain weight by changing a few things about the way you eat that may be less comfortable, and your resolve does get challenged not to get back to a higher weight without constant monitoring. Is it an excuse though? You bet it is. Anyone who is willing to put in the work can lose weight and maintain it.12 -
NorthCascades wrote: »
While this is true, no one says, "My body needs to pee," or "My body needs air." No, it's "I need to X."4 -
NorthCascades wrote: »
While this is true, no one says, "My body needs to pee," or "My body needs air." No, it's "I need to X."
So would it be correct if someone says "I have a weight set point"??2 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »
While this is true, no one says, "My body needs to pee," or "My body needs air." No, it's "I need to X."
So would it be correct if someone says "I have a weight set point"??
I doubt it. I think they likely have developed habits that involve how quickly they eat, what they eat, and their portion sizes. It feels like a natural setpoint because it's habit.12 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't know about set point, it might or might not be a thing. What I find really interesting is how naturally weight stable people (not necessarily thin) actually maintain within 5 pounds autonomously until something changes like their general level of activity... that's only a few dozen of calories. The precision It's amazing and fascinating without conscious control over the calories. I would love to find out the mechanisms that contribute to that, both physical and mental.
Maybe they do have a point, but worded better and more honestly it would sound something like "I'm eating comfortably at a certain weight, eating less is uncomfortable and I don't like to feel uncomfortable."
In a sense you do need to "force it" to get to a certain weight by changing a few things about the way you eat that may be less comfortable, and your resolve does get challenged not to get back to a higher weight without constant monitoring. Is it an excuse though? You bet it is. Anyone who is willing to put in the work can lose weight and maintain it.
I love this post right up to the end. Why do you assume that believing your body has a set point means they think they can't lose weight, or even that they haven't lost weight? That seems a big assumption.2 -
I'm not fat, I'm big boned!10
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't know about set point, it might or might not be a thing. What I find really interesting is how naturally weight stable people (not necessarily thin) actually maintain within 5 pounds autonomously until something changes like their general level of activity... that's only a few dozen of calories. The precision It's amazing and fascinating without conscious control over the calories. I would love to find out the mechanisms that contribute to that, both physical and mental.
Maybe they do have a point, but worded better and more honestly it would sound something like "I'm eating comfortably at a certain weight, eating less is uncomfortable and I don't like to feel uncomfortable."
In a sense you do need to "force it" to get to a certain weight by changing a few things about the way you eat that may be less comfortable, and your resolve does get challenged not to get back to a higher weight without constant monitoring. Is it an excuse though? You bet it is. Anyone who is willing to put in the work can lose weight and maintain it.
I love this post right up to the end. Why do you assume that believing your body has a set point means they think they can't lose weight, or even that they haven't lost weight? That seems a big assumption.
There was no such assumption! Some of those who believe in this theory do successfully lose weight and in their mind they are successfully swimming upstream against their 'set point'. The last bit was for a very specific case mentioned by the original post where some people would use it as an excuse.2
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