Bench press - arching the back
PocketPoodle
Posts: 32 Member
I was just bench pressing at the gym, and in the middle of a set (great, thanks!) a guy came to me and said "why are you destroying your back?" Apparently, he meant that I shouldn't arch my back but rather put my feet on the bench. He argued that everybody else training there also did that and that the trainers tell people to do so. I could "ask anyone".
So now I'm asking here.
I did have some SI joint issues (still an issue sometimes), and back then, my physical therapist told me to bench press with my feet on the bench. But he also had me bench press in the smith machine...
Help...? Thank you
So now I'm asking here.
I did have some SI joint issues (still an issue sometimes), and back then, my physical therapist told me to bench press with my feet on the bench. But he also had me bench press in the smith machine...
Help...? Thank you
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Replies
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He's clueless??4
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Benching with an arch in your back is like a powerlifter would do it. A moderate arch is fine . Flat back with feet on bench would produce more isolation and reduce what you could bench. Its more of a bodybuilder style.2
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Feet on bench is an aide for people who can't not arch, or lemmings.
Arching is cheating for a given value of cheating.
Solution: don't arch and keep the bench clean. I'm sure some machine manufacturer somewhere has designed a bench with injection molded foot holds complete with oversized straps.1 -
Thank you both I'm not trying to excessively arch my back, but I do have an anterior pelvic tilt, which I'm working to correct. Does that change anything? 0
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jonthemusse wrote: »Feet on bench is an aide for people who can't not arch, or lemmings.
Arching is cheating for a given value of cheating.
Solution: don't arch and keep the bench clean. I'm sure some machine manufacturer somewhere has designed a bench with injection molded foot holds complete with oversized straps.jonthemusse wrote: »Feet on bench is an aide for people who can't not arch, or lemmings.
Arching is cheating for a given value of cheating.
Solution: don't arch and keep the bench clean. I'm sure some machine manufacturer somewhere has designed a bench with injection molded foot holds complete with oversized straps.
Sorry... What? Could be that I'm just really tired, but didn't get any of that.0 -
I wanted to say that feet on the bench makes it easier not to arch your back. I dislike the habit. The lemmings comment was pointing at people who do it because everybody does it, and leave it at that.
I also wanted to convey that arching one's back excessively is not necessary, and somewhat artificially adds weights to the lift (goal dependent of course). Only excessive arching will put your back at risk, and will look like it will. A mild lumbar extension to tighten things up is not going to break your back.
Thirdly I felt like mentioning that the easiest solution for not making a mess of the bench is to avoid the urge to cheat a little in the first place. Physical conditions notwithstanding.
And finally, there's a machine for everything. And someone brave or foolish enough to use it.0 -
PocketPoodle wrote: »Thank you both I'm not trying to excessively arch my back, but I do have an anterior pelvic tilt, which I'm working to correct. Does that change anything?
Nah. Using an arch on bench press is a common, safe way to move heavy weights. There's a reason why EVERY strong bencher on the planet uses one.
The whole back injury angle is just a bunch of crap. You're hyperextending your back sure, but under minimal load (depending on amount of leg drive). A squat or a deadlift places MUCH, MUCH higher shear loads on the spine but you don't see people freaking out about those, do you?1 -
For somebody not competing, or training to compete, what is the advantage in using a technique not aiming to maximize recruitment or range? Genuine question.0
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I used to be a flat back bench presser but switched to arched back style and added 10kg instantly but more importantly stopped hurting myself.....
Think this is a great tutorial.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34XRmd3a8_0 0 -
Back arching is more of a power move to be able to get up some heavy weight. It seems like a little of a cheat to me. I try to keep my back flat and focus all of the effort and stress across the pecs to really hit the muscle. Back arching is OK if you're trying to press some heavy weight to hit your maxes but if you're trying to focus strictly on hitting the muscle and not too worried about the amount of weight lifted, I'd keep it flat. To each their own. Do what you feel comfortable doing. It's not going to hurt your back unless you do some crazy hyperextended arch. Arching really just reduces the distance between the peak of the lift and your chest so it's a little easier to get up. To me, it also seems that you'd get more effort on the lower portion of the pec because you're putting yourself in almost a decline bench position. Arch if you're a powerlifter, don't arch if you're just trying to gain strength or are concerned more with aesthetics.0
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Yeah, she did mention in the end to keep the rear on the bench. I had something like this in mind when I was whining
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Thank you all! I tried to argue with the guy, even showed him an article contradicting his statements, but I suppose his English wasn't so good (I'm in Germany), so he just looked at the photo and said "she will hurt her back some years from now!" Ok then. But since I'm not very advanced, and since I did have back problems, I got a little insecure.
I like to just do what I'm there for, and I'm reading and watching videos to do the best I can. Funnily enough, no one ever comments on all the guys bicep curling using a lot of momentum.
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jonthemusse wrote: »I wanted to say that feet on the bench makes it easier not to arch your back. I dislike the habit. The lemmings comment was pointing at people who do it because everybody does it, and leave it at that.
I also wanted to convey that arching one's back excessively is not necessary, and somewhat artificially adds weights to the lift (goal dependent of course). Only excessive arching will put your back at risk, and will look like it will. A mild lumbar extension to tighten things up is not going to break your back.
Thirdly I felt like mentioning that the easiest solution for not making a mess of the bench is to avoid the urge to cheat a little in the first place. Physical conditions notwithstanding.
And finally, there's a machine for everything. And someone brave or foolish enough to use it.
I think I got it, thank you
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PocketPoodle wrote: »Thank you both I'm not trying to excessively arch my back, but I do have an anterior pelvic tilt, which I'm working to correct. Does that change anything?
Nah. Using an arch on bench press is a common, safe way to move heavy weights. There's a reason why EVERY strong bencher on the planet uses one.
The whole back injury angle is just a bunch of crap. You're hyperextending your back sure, but under minimal load (depending on amount of leg drive). A squat or a deadlift places MUCH, MUCH higher shear loads on the spine but you don't see people freaking out about those, do you?
Well... I don't see that many squats or deadlifts there. The guy telling my that I was doing it wrong was doing three different types of bicep curls.0 -
According to Mark Rippletoe in his book Starting Strength he says about the bench press: "Force applied by the legs from the floor acts as a stabilizing force during the bench press and contributes to proper exercise posture".
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It's because they know it adds to the time until the ez-bar is free.PocketPoodle wrote: »Funnily enough, no one ever comments on all the guys bicep curling using a lot of momentum.
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I used to be a flat back bench presser but switched to arched back style and added 10kg instantly but more importantly stopped hurting myself.....
Think this is a great tutorial.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34XRmd3a8_0
Thank you, that explained leg drive very well.
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i didn't read all the posts, but arching your back isn't really like you are arching your back. Its basically the form your back takes on when you get full body engagement. when you squeeze your lats, lock your shoulders down, drive with your legs, squeeze your glutes etc, your back will naturally arch up like that. thats why the arch. its a great position for max strength.0
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i didn't read all the posts, but arching your back isn't really like you are arching your back. Its basically the form your back takes on when you get full body engagement. when you squeeze your lats, lock your shoulders down, drive with your legs, squeeze your glutes etc, your back will naturally arch up like that. thats why the arch. its a great position for max strength.
Thanks! I'm squeezing my shoulder blades together, imagining that I'm pressing the bench away from me to avoid lifting my shoulders, and keeping my feet flat on the floor. I feel like my back is assisting also. I know I'm not a pro, but I really feel like my bench press is much more stable and powerful since getting better at all that.
The thing is, even if I don't do anything, my back has an arch, too much, which I'm trying to correct.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZfsqdCOiTg
Dan Kovacs giving tips on Bench.
International powerlifting federation bench press rules state that you need to have your shoulders and buttocks touching the bench and feet solidly planted on the floor.
http://www.powerlifting-ipf.com/rules/technical-rules.html0 -
Much more stable, that is, until that guy made my try to do less of an arch. Then it got wobbly.0
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jonthemusse wrote: »For somebody not competing, or training to compete, what is the advantage in using a technique not aiming to maximize recruitment or range? Genuine question.
Shoulder safety, greater stability.
Number of back injuries I've personally had or even heard about on bench: 0
Number of shoulder injuries or pec tears I've heard about on bench: tons
^ Yes that's anecdote of course.2 -
PocketPoodle wrote: »i didn't read all the posts, but arching your back isn't really like you are arching your back. Its basically the form your back takes on when you get full body engagement. when you squeeze your lats, lock your shoulders down, drive with your legs, squeeze your glutes etc, your back will naturally arch up like that. thats why the arch. its a great position for max strength.
Thanks! I'm squeezing my shoulder blades together, imagining that I'm pressing the bench away from me to avoid lifting my shoulders, and keeping my feet flat on the floor. I feel like my back is assisting also. I know I'm not a pro, but I really feel like my bench press is much more stable and powerful since getting better at all that.
The thing is, even if I don't do anything, my back has an arch, too much, which I'm trying to correct.
arching isn't bad, keep your whole body tight. also dont rest your butt on the bench, push up with your legs, your butt should be barely touching the bench but not resting or relaxed on the bench, and glutes squeezed tight.. That might help with leveling out an unintentional arch.1 -
I arch because the combination of my arch, grip width, and touch point maximizes my strength while minimizing the stress placed on my joints. It's an aggressive arch, but by no means is it extreme.
How much you can arch is a function of how lax your spinal ligaments are. I just spent a week watching the best raw benchers in the world and saw everything from flat no arch to how on earth do you even bend that way.2 -
PocketPoodle wrote: »i didn't read all the posts, but arching your back isn't really like you are arching your back. Its basically the form your back takes on when you get full body engagement. when you squeeze your lats, lock your shoulders down, drive with your legs, squeeze your glutes etc, your back will naturally arch up like that. thats why the arch. its a great position for max strength.
Thanks! I'm squeezing my shoulder blades together, imagining that I'm pressing the bench away from me to avoid lifting my shoulders, and keeping my feet flat on the floor. I feel like my back is assisting also. I know I'm not a pro, but I really feel like my bench press is much more stable and powerful since getting better at all that.
The thing is, even if I don't do anything, my back has an arch, too much, which I'm trying to correct.
arching isn't bad, keep your whole body tight. also dont rest your butt on the bench, push up with your legs, your butt should be barely touching the bench but not resting or relaxed on the bench, and glutes squeezed tight.. That might help with leveling out an unintentional arch.
Thank you! Will definitely try that next time!
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jonthemusse wrote: »For somebody not competing, or training to compete, what is the advantage in using a technique not aiming to maximize recruitment or range? Genuine question.
Shoulder safety, greater stability.
Number of back injuries I've personally had or even heard about on bench: 0
Number of shoulder injuries or pec tears I've heard about on bench: tons
^ Yes that's anecdote of course.
Actually, I did feel more wobbly when trying to arch less. A shoulder injury is one of my biggest fears, I'm a pianist
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Willbenchforcupcakes wrote: »I arch because the combination of my arch, grip width, and touch point maximizes my strength while minimizing the stress placed on my joints. It's an aggressive arch, but by no means is it extreme.
How much you can arch is a function of how lax your spinal ligaments are. I just spent a week watching the best raw benchers in the world and saw everything from flat no arch to how on earth do you even bend that way.
Wow, cool!
I was actually really happy that my bench felt better and easier, so I was a bit bummed.
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PocketPoodle wrote: »jonthemusse wrote: »For somebody not competing, or training to compete, what is the advantage in using a technique not aiming to maximize recruitment or range? Genuine question.
Shoulder safety, greater stability.
Number of back injuries I've personally had or even heard about on bench: 0
Number of shoulder injuries or pec tears I've heard about on bench: tons
^ Yes that's anecdote of course.
Actually, I did feel more wobbly when trying to arch less. A shoulder injury is one of my biggest fears, I'm a pianist
People often tell me I have a really huge pianist.
But more to the main point in case this helps:
For powerlifting clients I will have them arch as much as possible such that they are still competing within the rules of the competition AND assuming this results in more weight moved.
For clients who are interested in maximum bench press strength I will do the same.
For clients who do not have the goal of building the biggest bench they can, I will STILL have them meet the following criteria:
1) SOME arch, the degree of which determined by their mobility and comfort levels, but generally I don't want them completely flat backed.
2) Scapula retracted and shoulders packed firmly into the bench
3) Feet firmly planted into the floor and remaining there throughout the press
4) Chest elevated (pushed UP towards the barbell)
5) Butt planted on the bench
This will look different from person to person. For some that's going to be a very small lumbar arch, for others it might be "moderate" but it's not going to be a large arch where I'm trying to stuff them under the bench.
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PocketPoodle wrote: »jonthemusse wrote: »For somebody not competing, or training to compete, what is the advantage in using a technique not aiming to maximize recruitment or range? Genuine question.
Shoulder safety, greater stability.
Number of back injuries I've personally had or even heard about on bench: 0
Number of shoulder injuries or pec tears I've heard about on bench: tons
^ Yes that's anecdote of course.
Actually, I did feel more wobbly when trying to arch less. A shoulder injury is one of my biggest fears, I'm a pianist
People often tell me I have a really huge pianist.
But more to the main point in case this helps:
For powerlifting clients I will have them arch as much as possible such that they are still competing within the rules of the competition AND assuming this results in more weight moved.
For clients who are interested in maximum bench press strength I will do the same.
For clients who do not have the goal of building the biggest bench they can, I will STILL have them meet the following criteria:
1) SOME arch, the degree of which determined by their mobility and comfort levels, but generally I don't want them completely flat backed.
2) Scapula retracted and shoulders packed firmly into the bench
3) Feet firmly planted into the floor and remaining there throughout the press
4) Chest elevated (pushed UP towards the barbell)
5) Butt planted on the bench
This will look different from person to person. For some that's going to be a very small lumbar arch, for others it might be "moderate" but it's not going to be a large arch where I'm trying to stuff them under the bench.
Hah!
And thank you so much! I might try to make a video and post it in the form critique thread.
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PocketPoodle wrote: »PocketPoodle wrote: »jonthemusse wrote: »For somebody not competing, or training to compete, what is the advantage in using a technique not aiming to maximize recruitment or range? Genuine question.
Shoulder safety, greater stability.
Number of back injuries I've personally had or even heard about on bench: 0
Number of shoulder injuries or pec tears I've heard about on bench: tons
^ Yes that's anecdote of course.
Actually, I did feel more wobbly when trying to arch less. A shoulder injury is one of my biggest fears, I'm a pianist
People often tell me I have a really huge pianist.
But more to the main point in case this helps:
For powerlifting clients I will have them arch as much as possible such that they are still competing within the rules of the competition AND assuming this results in more weight moved.
For clients who are interested in maximum bench press strength I will do the same.
For clients who do not have the goal of building the biggest bench they can, I will STILL have them meet the following criteria:
1) SOME arch, the degree of which determined by their mobility and comfort levels, but generally I don't want them completely flat backed.
2) Scapula retracted and shoulders packed firmly into the bench
3) Feet firmly planted into the floor and remaining there throughout the press
4) Chest elevated (pushed UP towards the barbell)
5) Butt planted on the bench
This will look different from person to person. For some that's going to be a very small lumbar arch, for others it might be "moderate" but it's not going to be a large arch where I'm trying to stuff them under the bench.
Hah!
And thank you so much! I might try to make a video and post it in the form critique thread.
Feel free to do so. Sometimes I miss new posts in that thread so feel free to PM me when you post and I'll take a look.0
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