Weight training with cardio

I read recently that cardio is best done after weight training since the body by then has burned off its glycogen stores from lifting and then the cardio focuses on the fat loss. I have been doing my cardio last. Thats a good topic for debate or discussion.

Why separate the two? Keep your HR up while you weight train with compound movements. Problem solved!

I do a cardio warmup (5-15 minutes), then weights (30-45 minutes), then more cardio, sometimes in the form of HIIT (another 5-15 minutes). Would that be hindering my fat burning?

Continuous exercise over 45 minutes to an hour and you will probably be burning protein stores, not fat or starches. Keep it short, simple, and effective.

Continuous exercise over 45 minutes to an hour and you will probably be burning protein stores, not fat or starches. Keep it short, simple, and effective.

Evidence to back this statement up please.

If you want to become a better runner,cycler,swimmer, do them first. If you want to become a stronger lifter, lift first. If you want to lose weight then doing metabolic conditioning is the way to go. The people pushing sleds and performing farmers walks etc. aren't worrying about losing weight or getting stronger because they know they are doing both.

Why separate the two? Keep your HR up while you weight train with compound movements. Problem solved!

Not true.

This has been discussed a few times so I'll give the short synopsis and let you do your own research.

When you lift weights, you activate metabolic pathways which are different than the metabolic pathways that are activated during cardiovascular exercise. The metabolic pathway that is stimulated from weight lifting is called the mTOR pathway. The metabolic pathway from cardiovascular exercise is the AMPK pathway.

When weight lifting and cardiovascular exercise are done together, neither metabolic pathway is as efficient as when they're done separately. The last I read, a 4 hour break is just enough to separate the metabolic interference. You can also stimulate the pathways through other means. For instance, you can stimulate the mTOR pathway by eating food rich in leucine. (amino acid)

So, in conclusion, it is most EFFICIENT to separate the times or days you do weight lifting and cardiovascular training. For general health purposes, it probably won't make a big difference but if you're really trying to get the most of out each, it is better to separate them.

does this apply to circuit training using light weights? or would high rep/light weight strength training count more as cardio, so it wouldn't matter if it's done in combination with high-intensity aerobics? so does this talk of separating metabolic pathways only apply when someone is lifting heavier weights? i'm only using the dinky 5 pounders right now (but i CAN lift more i swear) because i'm doing the 30 day shred and they do lots of high-rep weight lifting, and it's combined with a lot of cardio.

does this apply to circuit training using light weights? or would high rep/light weight strength training count more as cardio, so it wouldn't matter if it's done in combination with high-intensity aerobics? so does this talk of separating metabolic pathways only apply when someone is lifting heavier weights? i'm only using the dinky 5 pounders right now (but i CAN lift more i swear) because i'm doing the 30 day shred and they do lots of high-rep weight lifting, and it's combined with a lot of cardio.

Good question. It's one of the trickier subjects in exercise physiology. A lot of it is going to come down to intensity level while doing the circuit training. Whether it's heavy weights or light weights, what matters is whether or not you're aerobic or anaerobic. Sprinting is a good comparative example. When someone is sprinting (full sprint) they are using glycolysis to fuel their exercise. This means the body is using high levels of blood sugar to generate ATP (cell energy) in order to get you where you want to go. If you don't take a very long break and continue with more sprints, in a short time you'll be moving no faster than a quick jog. This is where you're no longer using glycolysis and the anaerobic metabolic system. Now you'd basically be in an aerobic state and using oxygen to produce ATP. This is also where you're not stimulating that AMPK pathway which will enhance endurance activities but not muscle bound activities.

So, when putting that into context of circuit training, if you're maintaining a very high intensity level, you'll be in the anaerobic stage and stimulating the mTOR pathway for building muscle. The problem is that it's impossible to maintain a very high intensity level for a long period of time. It will end up depending on what exercises you're doing, what kind of shape you're in and, most importantly, how long of a break you have between stations. With no break or a very short break, you're going to end up aerobic for sure and you'll stimulate those metabolic systems more often than not. This isn't to say you won't gain muscle, just that the cells in your body are confused about what to do. You'll know when you're about to enter the aerobic phase as well. That super annoying burning sensation where it feels like your muscles are acid? Yeah, that's usually the signal. It's free hydrogen changing the PH level of your blood.

Wow, that was a novel. Back to my green tea coconut ice cream. (tastes horrible)

does this apply to circuit training using light weights? or would high rep/light weight strength training count more as cardio, so it wouldn't matter if it's done in combination with high-intensity aerobics? so does this talk of separating metabolic pathways only apply when someone is lifting heavier weights? i'm only using the dinky 5 pounders right now (but i CAN lift more i swear) because i'm doing the 30 day shred and they do lots of high-rep weight lifting, and it's combined with a lot of cardio.

Good question. It's one of the trickier subjects in exercise physiology. A lot of it is going to come down to intensity level while doing the circuit training. Whether it's heavy weights or light weights, what matters is whether or not you're aerobic or anaerobic. Sprinting is a good comparative example. When someone is sprinting (full sprint) they are using glycolysis to fuel their exercise. This means the body is using high levels of blood sugar to generate ATP (cell energy) in order to get you where you want to go. If you don't take a very long break and continue with more sprints, in a short time you'll be moving no faster than a quick jog. This is where you're no longer using glycolysis and the anaerobic metabolic system. Now you'd basically be in an aerobic state and using oxygen to produce ATP. This is also where you're not stimulating that AMPK pathway which will enhance endurance activities but not muscle bound activities.

So, when putting that into context of circuit training, if you're maintaining a very high intensity level, you'll be in the anaerobic stage and stimulating the mTOR pathway for building muscle. The problem is that it's impossible to maintain a very high intensity level for a long period of time. It will end up depending on what exercises you're doing, what kind of shape you're in and, most importantly, how long of a break you have between stations. With no break or a very short break, you're going to end up aerobic for sure and you'll stimulate those metabolic systems more often than not. This isn't to say you won't gain muscle, just that the cells in your body are confused about what to do. You'll know when you're about to enter the aerobic phase as well. That super annoying burning sensation where it feels like your muscles are acid? Yeah, that's usually the signal. It's free hydrogen changing the PH level of your blood.

Wow, that was a novel. Back to my green tea coconut ice cream. (tastes horrible)

so i don't really know what any of that means but i knew you'd be eating ice cream! ahaha. i hope you had a fun bike ride ;P i'm actually very interested in the difference between aerobic and anaerobic states and which is better and why, but i think i'm going to ask for clarification when it's not late and my brain isn't fuzzy and tired. to be continued.

This is going to be long because I'm c+p an article that for some reason won't let me link just thing article. Ok, ready? (I got it from thepostgame.com's blog "Training Day", in case you want to read the other articles.)

Warm Up With Cardio, Then Go To Weights. Right? Wrong.

Having been an athlete for most of my life, I figured I knew my way around the gym. On a typical day, I'd hit the treadmill or elliptical machine for 30 minutes, then move to the weight machines. And that's what I started to do when I recently joined a gym. Then I got my assessment -- you know, the review of your habits a lot of gyms do. And the review told me I was doing something wrong.

Hit the weights hard, the assessment said. Then go to cardio.

What?

"The body needs to burn through its sugar source first before it taps into the fat," says Iman Nikzad, who runs the fitness program at my LA Fitness near Irvine, Ca. "You burn the sugar while doing the weights then burn the fat while doing the cardio."

I did some more research and, turns out, he's right and I was wrong. The optimal workout is a 10-minute warm-up on a low-impact cardio machine followed by 30 minutes of weights and then 30 minutes of intense cardio.

Yes, really.

"Efficiency is the key when structuring any workout, so long-duration cardio should not be done in the beginning of the session," says certified strength and conditioning specialist Jim Smith. "The most intensive training should be done first in the workout, when you are at your best."

By starting with weights, you alert your muscles to trigger the proteins that churn through calories while you train. So even though you're probably spent after 30 minutes of weights, your body is ready to eat fat faster than it would if you started by "telling" the body to attack sugar.

A lot of people get this wrong, thinking weight training diminishes the effect of the cardio work. It's the opposite. Just remember the phrase: "Muscle eats the fat." If you want to lose the flab -- and who doesn't? -- you want your muscles as active as possible. That means starting with weights.

And if you only have 30 minutes total, go for weights instead of cardio. That sounds counterintuitive, since we feel sweating is "proof" we're losing fat. But you will lose a lot more fat by pushing and pulling weights and then going on a brisk walk in your neighborhood (or even at the mall). The guy or gal who is dripping buckets on the Stairmaster is getting a good workout, but you're likely getting a better one by getting sore and not getting soaked.

This is interesting. I'm in Week 6 here. Workout intensity is the same/working in high end of heart rate zone. Workouts have been 30DS & 30 mins walk/run intervals on treadmill or outside, increasing intensity as I gain stamina. I've had good losses up until this week and last, where I can't seem to budge. Seems too early for a plateau. Calorie deficit hasn't changed much. But what I have done different this week and last compared to the weeks I've been losing 2 and even 3 lbs is my 30DS & interval cardio was one workout, where the weeks I was losing good, I was separating them. Could this be why I'm seeing a difference in loss amts?

It would be irresponsible guesswork on my part if I said one way or the other what was causing your stall in relation to any weight loss goals. There are so many factors at play that it's hard to nail it down. We can go over a few of them though so you can be aware of them.

1) A good reason for the difference might be intensity level. Combining two exercise types together means the one you're doing second is probably suffering from a lower intensity even if you're pushing yourself. The overall calorie usage would then be lower.

2) Daily stress in life? Cortisol is your stress hormone which affects fat gain and weight loss in general. Any increased stress in your life will increase cortisol and that can delay weight loss.

3) Speaking of cortisol, eating too few calories for an extended period of time will also raise cortisol. It's the body's way of making sure you hold onto fat for times of starvation. If you've been on a constant diet for 6 weeks, that could definitely be a reason why. Maybe it's time to take 2 days and up your calorie intake by 500 or so to normalize your cortisol as well as your ghrelin and leptin levels.

4) Water weight. Change in weather, sodium intake, diuretics in the diet, and increased carbohydrate intake can make you hold water differently. If there are changes in any of those things, you might just be holding on to an extra pound or so of water.

Anyway, like I said, there are a lot of factors. If you don't have enough time to separate your workouts then keep doing what you're doing. If you can separate them then it's something you should look into for maximum benefit.

The original question was "what burns more fat?". Separate the two if your goals are specific to getting better cardiovascularly or trying for a max effort lift. If your main goal is simply maximal calories burned, then why the need to separate? You will still be efficiently burning maximal amount of calories in a shorter period of time, while still achieving strength gains (If done properly).

I currently do P90X, and my heart rate gets into the 150-160 range for 75 minutes during the strength training days. So I do burn quite a bit of calories that way, I sweat buckets too

When doing cardio, it is even more, my heart rate goes up to 175-180, and I burn more over a longer period. I still run for 60 minutes though.

I don't believe that 45 minutes is extreme and the body will stop burning fat etc. I don't care if you are a pro athlete or Joe Schmoe, workout for 60 minutes, you'll get 60 minute+ results, workout for 45minute, you'll get 45minute+ results...just listen to your body and don't over do it.

I sometimes Run for 45 minutes first before doing the 75 minutes strength workout.

Also, make sure you have some sort of recovery drink afterwards, it will help restore protein and heal your muscles, because you WILL burn some protein stores as well as fat with a crazy good workout. I use chocolate milk because it has a high carb/protein ratio