Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.

Fasting to correct autoimmune diseases??

Options
135

Replies

  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    Options
    ronjsteele1 wrote: »
    rml_16 wrote: »
    You can't heal autoimmune. That's why "visiting numerous doctors" hasn't helped.

    My beef with the above statement is, it is untrue. We've had two autoimmune diseases in my home and both have been completely healed. Neither with drugs. IC and ITP. It was a long 6yrs but we did it and I have no issue giving full credit to the natural doctors that helped us and the unbelievable amount of work it was to manage diets to make it happen (practically living in the kitchen). AI's can be healed. Given what it needs, the body was created to heal. To each his own, but I'm happy we're on the other side. And please don't discourage others who are working in that direction. If it doesn't work for them, then so be it. But they have the right to explore, research, and try just as those who wish to try whatever drugs are offered to them do.

    On the issue of fasting for resetting the immune system I don't really have an opinion as we haven't tried it specifically for that (we've done 24hr fasts for other reasons). A close friend's son has JRA and his rheumatologist just this week told them they know (but don't understand why) that short term fasting *can* (not always) be helpful in modulating the immune system. In their case (they had an unintended "fast" due to illness) it actually did work for him. He's now been 10 weeks without methotrexate for the first time in 7 years. And it could be a combination of the not being able to eat for 3 days and/or all the natural treatments they've been doing. Who knows? And they don't really care. Whatever works........

    @ronjsteele I'm curious what was done to treat ITP. I also have ITP, and it has been under control (thankfully) for 25 years now because my spleen was removed, but I am very curious what you did to reverse it. :)
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    Options
    Remission yes, cured no. You should tell your cure to researchers as haven't found it yet.
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    Options
    It's dangerous to tell people that they should just change their diet and stop drugs to "cure" autoimmune diseases. That doesn't work for people with severe forms of AI. i would be dead without meds. No amount of natural products could help my intestines. Also type 1 diabetes is autoimmune. I don't think it is wise for them to stop their insulin
  • vingogly
    vingogly Posts: 1,785 Member
    Options
    Science doesn't work that way. It's a process, and over time many studies are rejected or superseded by other studies. Over and over again I see a study cited here or in the media as "proving" something, but what most people don't seem to understand is that a single study doesn't "prove" anything. That's not at all how science works.

    If you're looking for medical advice or confirmation in forums like this one, you're asking for trouble. Research things online, but ask your doctors about what you find. I question my doctors all the time but realize that ultimately they're the ones who have made a formal study of medicine and who are up to date on the most recent research. And if questioning shows they don't keep up with the latest research, they're not going to remain my doctors.

    I believe giving medical advice is a violation of the terms of service here, by the way.
  • ronjsteele1
    ronjsteele1 Posts: 1,064 Member
    edited June 2016
    Options
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    It's dangerous to tell people that they should just change their diet and stop drugs to "cure" autoimmune diseases. That doesn't work for people with severe forms of AI. i would be dead without meds. No amount of natural products could help my intestines. Also type 1 diabetes is autoimmune. I don't think it is wise for them to stop their insulin

    I never told anyone to stop their drugs or just change their diet for their AI's. Sometimes it takes using them for years while the body goes through a healing process. I had to do both for a long time. And yes, type 1 is a different story. I do believe if caught early enough it can be stopped or slowed, but not completely reversed. I think the majority of AI's are fixable - but there is at least one exception (I would put type 1 diabetes in that realm).

    BTW, it was Hippocrates, the father of modern medicine, that said, "let your food be thy medicine and thy medicine thy food."
  • ronjsteele1
    ronjsteele1 Posts: 1,064 Member
    edited June 2016
    Options
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    Remission yes, cured no. You should tell your cure to researchers as haven't found it yet.


    We'll just have to politely agree to disagree. And it is NEVER one thing that does it. Every person is different and everyone (literally) will require different routines and protocols to make it happen. That's part of what makes it so difficult. Medicine likes to do everything *mostly* (note I did not say exactly) the same person to person. "You have 'x', we give you 'y' for that." No two people are the same and no two people will ever need the same routine.

  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    Options
    Well the scientific world and I disagree with you too. Heck I was on tpn and npo and that didn't help. Lots of kids with IBD are on feeding tubes for years and npo without being cured. I guess we just aren't trying hard enough.
  • ronjsteele1
    ronjsteele1 Posts: 1,064 Member
    Options
    vingogly wrote: »

    I believe giving medical advice is a violation of the terms of service here, by the way.

    I don't think anyone was giving medical advice. I think the discussion was whether or not there is merit to fasting for AI's. That's a worthy discussion.
  • johnwelk
    johnwelk Posts: 396 Member
    Options
    ronjsteele1 wrote: »
    rml_16 wrote: »
    You can't heal autoimmune. That's why "visiting numerous doctors" hasn't helped.

    My beef with the above statement is, it is untrue.
    Again you are flat-out wrong. Autoimmune conditions can't be healed. Some can go into remission but never healed. Please provide some proof that any AI disorder can cured. My guess is youll have some excuse as to why you can't.
    We've had two autoimmune diseases in my home and both have been completely healed. Neither with drugs. IC and ITP.
    Sorry this is just not true. My guess is the quacks you so deparately love misdiagnosed you. Neither can be cured. ITP in a child can clear up on its own, in adults the best you can hope for is remission. IC can't be cured either. If this was true your quack would have a Nobel prize.
    AI's can be healed.
    No. They. Can't.
    Citations please. But we know you won't produce one, you never do. Again you'll have some excuse why don't
    And please don't discourage others who are working in that direction.
    Sorry untreated AI disease can't be fatal. So I will discourage anyone from going down the rabbit hole of "natural" medicine.
    A close friend's son has JRA and his rheumatologist just this week told them they know (but don't understand why) that short term fasting *can* (not always) be helpful in modulating the immune system. In their case (they had an unintended "fast" due to illness) it actually did work for him. He's now been 10 weeks without methotrexate for the first time in 7 years. And it could be a combination of the not being able to eat for 3 days and/or all the natural treatments they've been doing.
    Probably just went into remission on its own and has nothing to do with diet or natural treatments.
    And they don't really care.
    They should, it's their sons life they really playing games with.
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    Options
    My untreated at the time Crohn's at the time almost killed me and I was very into fitness and eating clean when that happened
  • johnwelk
    johnwelk Posts: 396 Member
    Options
    ronjsteele1 wrote: »
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    Remission yes, cured no. You should tell your cure to researchers as haven't found it yet.


    We'll just have to politely agree to disagree. And it is NEVER one thing that does it. Every person is different and everyone (literally) will require different routines and protocols to make it happen. That's part of what makes it so difficult. Medicine likes to do everything *mostly* (note I did not say exactly) the same person to person. "You have 'x', we give you 'y' for that." No two people are the same and no two people will ever need the same routine.

    This statement alone just about proves you have absolutely no idea how the human body, biology, science and research work.
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    Options
    I don't think I know any two people on the exact same treatment plan. It is individualized
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    Options
    seekingdaintiness wrote: »
    There is no cure for auto immune diseases, but proper medical treatment can help control the symptoms. A lot of people are being misled by snake oil salesmen and being fed this idea of the perfect diet that will "get them off medications". Getting off medications has become this weird holy grail elite status when the real goal should be feeling better and living a full life. For some people this is only possible with medication and there is no shame in that.

    +1!!!

    I do know people who have mild versions of AI diseases who can achieve remission from diet alone though the damage can eventually catch up to them. I don't know anyone with severe disease able to control it by diet. It is annoying when people come around with their holier than thou attitude that they are better than those of us who can't get off meds
  • ronjsteele1
    ronjsteele1 Posts: 1,064 Member
    edited June 2016
    Options
    johnwelk wrote: »
    We've had two autoimmune diseases in my home and both have been completely healed. Neither with drugs. IC and ITP.
    Sorry this is just not true. My guess is the quacks you so deparately love misdiagnosed you. Neither can be cured. ITP in a child can clear up on its own, in adults the best you can hope for is remission. IC can't be cured either. If this was true your quack would have a Nobel prize.

    A close friend's son has JRA and his rheumatologist just this week told them they know (but don't understand why) that short term fasting *can* (not always) be helpful in modulating the immune system. In their case (they had an unintended "fast" due to illness) it actually did work for him. He's now been 10 weeks without methotrexate for the first time in 7 years. And it could be a combination of the not being able to eat for 3 days and/or all the natural treatments they've been doing.
    Probably just went into remission on its own and has nothing to do with diet or natural treatments.


    Really? 14yrs of IC and I didn't know that's what I had? Everyone that saw me for 14yrs misdiagnosed me? Wow. You think even less of the medical community then I do. You're a *kitten*. Plain and simple. And no, my child's ITP did not go away on it's own. He was refractory to all treatments and they had no hope or plan for him. They were happy to offer rituxin, splenectomy (which is rarely done anymore), nplate, or pramacta (now available for kids). We chose not to go there. If others do/have, then good on them. Our method worked and is still working and I don't discourage others from trying it. And BTW, I've been around the ITP community a long time and it's a complete and absolute lie that kids normally go into remission on their own. You probably need to hang around a bit more. Doctors love to say that but the real world experience of parents is that it's not true. Especially these days.

    No, my friend's son still has JRA. It did not go into remission. What I said was he was able to go without the methotrexate for the last 10 weeks. Do you not read, or do you just like to see what you think someone says? The accidental fasting clearly made a difference - EVEN HIS DOCTOR SAID SO.

    You can believe what you want. But we worked our *kitten* off this past 6yrs to heal bodies in our family. You can believe and do whatever you like. But you are dead wrong to discourage anyone else from trying what they want to. I'm not telling anyone not to do their drugs and follow their doctors. I'm just telling them there are other options. What are you afraid of? That one of those options might work for someone and you'll look like an idiot?

    I do not know why I even engage you idiots. Except that I feel for the one person that may be searching for answers like we were and one lone voice said, "have you tried this? Or looked into this?" It sent me searching and it was worth it.



  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    edited June 2016
    Options
    But you are claiming there is a cure when there is no cure. It's irresponsible go around saying that. If you are not having symptoms it doesn't mean you are cured
  • lithezebra
    lithezebra Posts: 3,670 Member
    edited June 2016
    Options
    There is support in the medical literature for the idea that fasting can have beneficial effects on autoimmune diseases. That doesn't mean it's a cure, only that it might be a tool for managing your condition. You should read up on your specific condition in peer reviewed literature. Here's one, general example, not intended to prove anything.

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0271531712001820
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    Options
    lithezebra wrote: »
    There is support in the medical literature for the idea that fasting can have beneficial effects on autoimmune diseases. That doesn't mean it's a cure, only that it might be a tool for managing your condition. You should read up on your specific condition in peer reviewed literature. Here's one, general example, not intended to prove anything.

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0271531712001820

    IF and complete fasting are completely different things.
  • lithezebra
    lithezebra Posts: 3,670 Member
    Options
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    lithezebra wrote: »
    There is support in the medical literature for the idea that fasting can have beneficial effects on autoimmune diseases. That doesn't mean it's a cure, only that it might be a tool for managing your condition. You should read up on your specific condition in peer reviewed literature. Here's one, general example, not intended to prove anything.

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0271531712001820

    IF and complete fasting are completely different things.

    How are you defining complete fasting? People do IF in a variety of ways, including periods of complete fasting lasting for at least a day. It doesn't matter anyway. I suggested that the OP search the literature for her own information, not just for one paper that restricts itself to fasting for Ramadan.

Categories