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Special diet, detox, Nutrisystem, Weight Watchers, etc. Why?
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I'm always a little confused by the assumption that people are lazy and that's why they choose these options. Misplaced trust, lack of access to better information or awareness that there is alternatives, the myths contribute to a lack of confidence in personalising your own program. I can't blame a person for not knowing any different given the crap people are fed (even by doctors apparently) and may be too overwhelmed by the stuff of life to have the time to discover that it's dodgy.
It's all part of fall down 7 times, get back up 8. We've all done it.3 -
Most people listen to popular music, see popular movies, read popular books, and attempt popular weight loss methods. (Do you think these are necessarily the "best" music, movies, books, weight loss methods?)
How does a weight loss method become popular? I'd argue that there are two main avenues, and sometimes both of them apply:- Someone has an angle to make a profit, so they market the method like crazy.
- People are looking for something magical that will be quick and easy, so they fall for nonsense claims.
But, with respect to "making a conscious effort to just cutting back on how much one is eating, without having to go through some 'special' method":- No one much stands to profit - how would you write an engaging book about that, let alone get someone to subscribe to a weight-loss magazine with that philosophy (6 great monthly articles about eating the same stuff, just a little less of it!)? No one would go to a weekend workshop about it, attend weekly for-profit meetings, buy a DVD . . . and there's no special frozen dinners to be sold ("Here's your normal dinner, just 3/4 as much!!"). Under Armor running MFP and getting ad revenue, and some other like cases, is about as profitable as this gets. So, not much marketing, except for what the governmental/charitable/health-advocacy non-profits tell us, and who the heck listens to them about anything?
- To most people, this doesn't sound quick or easy. There's no magic.
I think that's pretty much why things are as they are.6 -
Because people choose the option that works best for their lifestyle and/or knowledge level, just like everything else in life.
It's not like anyone on MFP really has room to talk anyway, since they are using an app designed by someone else to track their calories, macros, and nutrients instead of sitting down with a pen and paper and doing it themselves. And having access to a huge database that they wouldn't have doing it themselves. Not to mention that the community support here isn't any different from the community support that is a part of programs like WW. Sure, it's "free," but you're still following a program and using tools created by others.
However though with MFP, we learn how to do what's necessary; without this website's usage as well (pertaining to calorie counting). Whether it be by choice and/or if we lose access to the internet. With everything else, it's impossible to continue; without their products or like with WW when it becomes possible, they reinvent themselves with a new point system; so that you have to return to learn it.
It also makes me livid, when those using this website; complain about those whom desire new features for ease of use. Yet those same people no doubt're most likely, also using a dishwasher, washing machine & dryer, etc.; to make their live's easier. The hypocrisy here, just astounds me!0 -
I knew when I said "lazy", someone would get up in arms about it. I meant "lazy" as in the person doesn't want to put in the effort to cook foods or work hard enough to pay $500 a month for a food program, not that the person is stupid and ignorant. If I worked a full-time job, had to take care of a family and all the housework, and I could afford it, I might go with buying NutriSystem or similar program as I would be lazy, aka not want to make the time to grocery shop and cook meals. As I'm really self-employed working from home and my only responsibilities are to keep house and my family fed, I'm lazy about getting a second, outside-the-home job in order to earn enough money to pay for NutriSystem.
Do I think it's bad someone pays $500 a month for a pre-portioned food program? Nope. I did it as a teen until my mom couldn't afford it.2 -
I knew when I said "lazy", someone would get up in arms about it. I meant "lazy" as in the person doesn't want to put in the effort to cook foods or work hard enough to pay $500 a month for a food program, not that the person is stupid and ignorant. If I worked a full-time job, had to take care of a family and all the housework, and I could afford it, I might go with buying NutriSystem or similar program as I would be lazy, aka not want to make the time to grocery shop and cook meals. As I'm really self-employed working from home and my only responsibilities are to keep house and my family fed, I'm lazy about getting a second, outside-the-home job in order to earn enough money to pay for NutriSystem.
Do I think it's bad someone pays $500 a month for a pre-portioned food program? Nope. I did it as a teen until my mom couldn't afford it.
Did you ever feel guilty your Mom payed all that money until she couldn't afford it?
Serious question. She probably couldn't at the time but did it for you till she could not.
Or did finances change?1 -
Wetcoaster wrote: »I knew when I said "lazy", someone would get up in arms about it. I meant "lazy" as in the person doesn't want to put in the effort to cook foods or work hard enough to pay $500 a month for a food program, not that the person is stupid and ignorant. If I worked a full-time job, had to take care of a family and all the housework, and I could afford it, I might go with buying NutriSystem or similar program as I would be lazy, aka not want to make the time to grocery shop and cook meals. As I'm really self-employed working from home and my only responsibilities are to keep house and my family fed, I'm lazy about getting a second, outside-the-home job in order to earn enough money to pay for NutriSystem.
Do I think it's bad someone pays $500 a month for a pre-portioned food program? Nope. I did it as a teen until my mom couldn't afford it.
Did you ever feel guilty your Mom payed all that money until she couldn't afford it?
Serious question. She probably couldn't at the time but did it for you till she could not.
Or did finances change?
I personally wouldn't, in such a scenario. She was the adult in charge of finances, I was the teen who thought money came from nowhere, and didn't understand labor value.0 -
Yeah, I like your insights.Personally, I love that food logging with MFP made it pretty easy, turning the whole weight-management issue into kind of a fun science-fair project for grown-ups, with a big real-world payoff. But when people ask me how I lost 60+ pounds, and I say "I ate less", they mostly hound me for the real answer ("low carb?" "low fat?" "new workouts?") or lose interest because there's no magic.
I think that's pretty much why things are as they are.
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Well for my self, I am up and down like a yo-yo. I know I am a food addict. I like food and like to eat it. I have decided to change my life style. I want to eat to live not live to eat. I am praying and doing everything I can to control myself. I pray the Serenity prayer when I feel tempted to over eat it seems to be helping, I had tried many ways to lose and have lost but I gained it back when not watching. I truly am a Food Addict I pray Lord help me to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. It will be a life time job. Thanks for hearing me out. Till I learn control forever I will need you all and your encouragement. Every thing else is seemingly a gimmick.0
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Most people listen to popular music, see popular movies, read popular books, and attempt popular weight loss methods. (Do you think these are necessarily the "best" music, movies, books, weight loss methods?)
How does a weight loss method become popular? I'd argue that there are two main avenues, and sometimes both of them apply:- Someone has an angle to make a profit, so they market the method like crazy.
- People are looking for something magical that will be quick and easy, so they fall for nonsense claims.
But, with respect to "making a conscious effort to just cutting back on how much one is eating, without having to go through some 'special' method":- No one much stands to profit - how would you write an engaging book about that, let alone get someone to subscribe to a weight-loss magazine with that philosophy (6 great monthly articles about eating the same stuff, just a little less of it!)? No one would go to a weekend workshop about it, attend weekly for-profit meetings, buy a DVD . . . and there's no special frozen dinners to be sold ("Here's your normal dinner, just 3/4 as much!!"). Under Armor running MFP and getting ad revenue, and some other like cases, is about as profitable as this gets. So, not much marketing, except for what the governmental/charitable/health-advocacy non-profits tell us, and who the heck listens to them about anything?
- To most people, this doesn't sound quick or easy. There's no magic.
I think that's pretty much why things are as they are.
That's been my experience as well. Now granted, I do run keto, but I don't bother explaining that part until I am sure that they understand, at the end of the day, weight loss is nothing more than a physics problem. No need to make *kitten* sound like voodoo when it's not. It builds expectations, and leads to inevitable failure.
Oh, and many others swear I must have starved myself or some silliness. When 14-1600 kcal per day is "starving" oneself, we have developed a warped *kitten* sense of nutrition, as a culture.0 -
I knew when I said "lazy", someone would get up in arms about it. I meant "lazy" as in the person doesn't want to put in the effort to cook foods or work hard enough to pay $500 a month for a food program, not that the person is stupid and ignorant. If I worked a full-time job, had to take care of a family and all the housework, and I could afford it, I might go with buying NutriSystem or similar program as I would be lazy, aka not want to make the time to grocery shop and cook meals. As I'm really self-employed working from home and my only responsibilities are to keep house and my family fed, I'm lazy about getting a second, outside-the-home job in order to earn enough money to pay for NutriSystem.
Do I think it's bad someone pays $500 a month for a pre-portioned food program? Nope. I did it as a teen until my mom couldn't afford it.
Naaah not up in arms. Ive seen it said over the years on MFPland. Often without clarification which you have done.
When someone says to me, I'm too lazy to do xyz, it tells me what's more the point is that what they believe they have to do is simply not conducive to where they are at. It dropped out of my vocabulary in regards to myself because I realised it actually made no sense when I considered how I was able to apply myself to other areas.
Part of the problem is the preconceptions people have about weightless - the level of activity they need to do, the expectation upon timeframe and so on. You know the drill. There is a vacuum out there, knowledge wise, non MFP. Not having enough knowledge means rigidity. Not knowing how to move confidently with changes (environment, physiological etc). How many books/programs discuss maintenance? Bloody none. Wherever you are at, whatever dilemma, there's always a solution. Lazy IMO, is sometimes indicative of not having found the correct solution - inject more fun, learn more, reassess goals etc. People just end up believing they are a failure, lazy, when all it was was a jump to the left to set them right again.
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Wetcoaster wrote: »I knew when I said "lazy", someone would get up in arms about it. I meant "lazy" as in the person doesn't want to put in the effort to cook foods or work hard enough to pay $500 a month for a food program, not that the person is stupid and ignorant. If I worked a full-time job, had to take care of a family and all the housework, and I could afford it, I might go with buying NutriSystem or similar program as I would be lazy, aka not want to make the time to grocery shop and cook meals. As I'm really self-employed working from home and my only responsibilities are to keep house and my family fed, I'm lazy about getting a second, outside-the-home job in order to earn enough money to pay for NutriSystem.
Do I think it's bad someone pays $500 a month for a pre-portioned food program? Nope. I did it as a teen until my mom couldn't afford it.
Did you ever feel guilty your Mom payed all that money until she couldn't afford it?
Serious question. She probably couldn't at the time but did it for you till she could not.
Or did finances change?
Mom was on it herself. IIRC, there may have been a price reduction package if you bought more meals, like BOGO. "Buy 6 breakfasts, 6 lunches, 6 dinners, and get 6 desserts for FREE!" She paid for it first for herself, then my brother and me. Mom's priorities changed and buying meals to lose weight weren't in the top choices lists.0 -
All of these programs are simple someone trying to take advantage of those who lack personal responsibility. (Those who are placing the work and responsibility on a product instead of their own choices and working on self control)2
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Because people choose the option that works best for their lifestyle and/or knowledge level, just like everything else in life.
It's not like anyone on MFP really has room to talk anyway, since they are using an app designed by someone else to track their calories, macros, and nutrients instead of sitting down with a pen and paper and doing it themselves. And having access to a huge database that they wouldn't have doing it themselves. Not to mention that the community support here isn't any different from the community support that is a part of programs like WW. Sure, it's "free," but you're still following a program and using tools created by others.
Exactly! And it isn't like MFP is more successful than WW or Nutrisystem judging by how many members show up saying "I'm back because I regained".
None of these things work any more than the individual putting the dedication into them.6 -
mommarnurse wrote: »All of these programs are simple someone trying to take advantage of those who lack personal responsibility. (Those who are placing the work and responsibility on a product instead of their own choices and working on self control)
I don't play the "who works harder game" for losing weight. It is hard eating below ones maintenance calories whether they are paying for a program like WW, Nutrisystem or a free one like MFP. All require mental and physical effort. All require working on self control.6 -
I just detest the idea of paying someone money to do something that I already know good and well how to do by myself. I think that weighing and logging food is EASY (it takes what? 5 minutes per meal?). And using MFP *is* different because it *is* free. No one tells you what/where/when to eat, you make your own choices and then have the convenience of the calculator to keep track. I mean. I could write it down (and have done so before the internet age), but..... why would I?
How long it takes to weigh and log a meal varies greatly from person to person. It took me longer than 5 minutes and more importantly I had to totally change the way I cooked.1 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I just detest the idea of paying someone money to do something that I already know good and well how to do by myself. I think that weighing and logging food is EASY (it takes what? 5 minutes per meal?). And using MFP *is* different because it *is* free. No one tells you what/where/when to eat, you make your own choices and then have the convenience of the calculator to keep track. I mean. I could write it down (and have done so before the internet age), but..... why would I?
How long it takes to weigh and log a meal varies greatly from person to person. It took me longer than 5 minutes and more importantly I had to totally change the way I cooked.
That is a fair point. Hell, I had to START cooking to begin with. Finding premade keto food that isn't a bunch of *kitten* disguised by serving size micromanagement and FDA allowed numerical voodoo, is nigh impossible.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »So this has me wondering, is it that hard mentally to do the latter? I would think most people could save a lot of money and effort doing that. Even factoring in getting a food scale, it just seems so much simpler to go that route. As someone who has never had to lose any weight though, I'm curious to hear thoughts from others who have been down this path.
Are you sure it's just a matter of tracking your habits so you can burn more calories than you eat? I mean, that doesn't sound gimmicky enough to work. Somebody else said if you don't eat after 6 pm you'll lose weight. I heard if you cut back on carbs the weight will come right off. Or, you have poison in your body making you fat and only a special tea can make you skinny. What I'm getting at is that there's a lot of uncertainty among people about how weight loss works ... partly because there are companies that profit from sowing confusion. You can't blame people for not knowing who to believe.
The other thing that comes to mind is that a lot of people could save money doing their own oil changes, but don't because they feel the money they'd save wouldn't be worth the hassle. It's hard to see how that kind of thinking applies to weight loss or maintenance, but if people feel overwhelmed, it can make sense.0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »So this has me wondering, is it that hard mentally to do the latter? I would think most people could save a lot of money and effort doing that. Even factoring in getting a food scale, it just seems so much simpler to go that route. As someone who has never had to lose any weight though, I'm curious to hear thoughts from others who have been down this path.
Are you sure it's just a matter of tracking your habits so you can burn more calories than you eat? I mean, that doesn't sound gimmicky enough to work. Somebody else said if you don't eat after 6 pm you'll lose weight. I heard if you cut back on carbs the weight will come right off. Or, you have poison in your body making you fat and only a special tea can make you skinny. What I'm getting at is that there's a lot of uncertainty among people about how weight loss works ... partly because there are companies that profit from sowing confusion. You can't blame people for not knowing who to believe.
The other thing that comes to mind is that a lot of people could save money doing their own oil changes, but don't because they feel the money they'd save wouldn't be worth the hassle. It's hard to see how that kind of thinking applies to weight loss or maintenance, but if people feel overwhelmed, it can make sense.
If absolutely makes sense. I'm one of those people. For major mech work, I'll do it myself. For maintenance? The $18 I'd save isn't worth the time it would take me to get my car jacked up, let alone fighting with the oddly placed filters.0 -
Yeah, I get what you're saying. I have seen a number of statements posted on social media that could certainly get people confused.NorthCascades wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »So this has me wondering, is it that hard mentally to do the latter? I would think most people could save a lot of money and effort doing that. Even factoring in getting a food scale, it just seems so much simpler to go that route. As someone who has never had to lose any weight though, I'm curious to hear thoughts from others who have been down this path.
Are you sure it's just a matter of tracking your habits so you can burn more calories than you eat? I mean, that doesn't sound gimmicky enough to work. Somebody else said if you don't eat after 6 pm you'll lose weight. I heard if you cut back on carbs the weight will come right off. Or, you have poison in your body making you fat and only a special tea can make you skinny. What I'm getting at is that there's a lot of uncertainty among people about how weight loss works ... partly because there are companies that profit from sowing confusion. You can't blame people for not knowing who to believe.
The other thing that comes to mind is that a lot of people could save money doing their own oil changes, but don't because they feel the money they'd save wouldn't be worth the hassle. It's hard to see how that kind of thinking applies to weight loss or maintenance, but if people feel overwhelmed, it can make sense.
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