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Special diet, detox, Nutrisystem, Weight Watchers, etc. Why?
ForecasterJason
Posts: 2,577 Member
in Debate Club
I don't remember if this was really discussed before in this section. But one thing I've noticed with friends I know in real life and even some celebrities is the way in which a lot of people try to lose weight. Now I may be biased based on my observations, but it seems to me that a fairly large percentage of the population is out trying a special detox, diet, or buying some other program such as Nutrisystem or Weight Watchers to lose weight. This is in contrast to making a conscious effort to just cutting back on how much one is eating, without having to go through some "special" method.
So this has me wondering, is it that hard mentally to do the latter? I would think most people could save a lot of money and effort doing that. Even factoring in getting a food scale, it just seems so much simpler to go that route. As someone who has never had to lose any weight though, I'm curious to hear thoughts from others who have been down this path.
So this has me wondering, is it that hard mentally to do the latter? I would think most people could save a lot of money and effort doing that. Even factoring in getting a food scale, it just seems so much simpler to go that route. As someone who has never had to lose any weight though, I'm curious to hear thoughts from others who have been down this path.
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this has been debated ad nauseam ..just use the handy search feature..2
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When I figured out that it was all about calories, and that they were in my control via readily available tools, weight loss became a fairly trivial matter to me.3
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For me, it's less stressful. brain-taxing, and time consuming eating from a pre-portioned food program (NutriSystem and WW) than weighing out all my food, though it will cost much more money. Because I'm cheap and I did the NS and WW before, I went the 'free' way of measuring my own food and keeping a food diary.
Generally speaking, people are lazy in some respect. They just pick a different lazy. Some people don't care about spending $500 a month on pre-packaged, delivered-to-my-house food programs because they feel their time is more precious to them than $500.5 -
I think it varies from person to person. I love to cook and to experiment with new dishes and food combinations. I also hate to plan meals ahead of time as I don't know what I'll be in the mood for. I don't preplan and I rarely use recipes. For me it would be hell to use something like NutriSystem or even HelloFresh.
But I don't for one second imagine that everyone is like me. I'm sure those types of things are very helpful for others.
The same with detoxes and restrictive diets. I'd hate them, but I imagine they are helpful to many, even if only psychologically.
It's also the same with calorie counting and logging food. It's not my thing but many find it helpful.
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For me, it's less stressful. brain-taxing, and time consuming eating from a pre-portioned food program (NutriSystem and WW) than weighing out all my food, though it will cost much more money. Because I'm cheap and I did the NS and WW before, I went the 'free' way of measuring my own food and keeping a food diary.
Generally speaking, people are lazy in some respect. They just pick a different lazy. Some people don't care about spending $500 a month on pre-packaged, delivered-to-my-house food programs because they feel their time is more precious to them than $500.
^Lazy
Magic Bullet theory.....if you're paying money for something "special" then it must be better....right?
Detoxes are fads. Celebrities, models, etc use them....."we can be like them." What a bunch of *kittens.* There are always going to be new fads as long as there are people wanting to make money. There are always going to be suckers who fall for it because there "must be a shortcut."
Weight Watchers can have an in-person accountability/camaraderie factor. Some people do get benefit from that. Weighing in weekly (in front of a bunch of people?)....may make you more accountable.2 -
Sometimes I think that people choose programs because then if they don't lose weight they can blame the program instead of themselves. There are countless reasons and answers and I've never done any of these programs myself. Just my $0.02.11
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People want a quick fix.
They don't want to have to work for it
They'd rather believe that there's some magical answer to losing weight because they flat out don't want to put in any work.
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bleurgh to all those things. I eat better and save money by cooking my own food and simply counting the calories and nutrients in it. I tried WW about ten years ago and it made me miserable AND cost money. So I noped the F out of there.1
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Because people choose the option that works best for their lifestyle and/or knowledge level, just like everything else in life.
It's not like anyone on MFP really has room to talk anyway, since they are using an app designed by someone else to track their calories, macros, and nutrients instead of sitting down with a pen and paper and doing it themselves. And having access to a huge database that they wouldn't have doing it themselves. Not to mention that the community support here isn't any different from the community support that is a part of programs like WW. Sure, it's "free," but you're still following a program and using tools created by others.
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Good points. It sounds like a big reason these other methods appeal to people is because it takes a lot of the planning and effort off of the individual.2
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I lost 133 lbs on WW and if I had kept doing what I learned, I wouldn't have gained it back. The accountability helped. There's nothing wrong with that. I don't think it made me lazy. MFP helps me get back to eating right and in the right amounts, just like WW did. There is support to be had as well. It doesn't strike me as that different, except for the cost.5
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Laziness and lack of knowledge, at least for me. Diets look daunting and awful, and counting calories on paper is a real chore. I tried some weight loss pills, detoxes and the like because they promised quick loss with no real effort on my part. Those didn't work, and I was too shy for WW or anything involving other humans. Did a little more digging and found MFP. If I had known that it was all in my control and there was an easy system and support at my fingertips, for free, i likely wouldn't have tried anything else.2
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Waaallll, I tried Weight Watchers as a young woman, and it worked while I was on it. I understand, however, that WW is better now, more scientific, easier to follow. I also tried to lose weight on my own over the years and was never successful for long. But my last weight loss was through prayer.
All I ever read and heard in my older years was that "it way harder, even impossible, when you're older." So on my 60th birthday, I prayed for a birthday gift of weight loss. I did not ask for a time schedule, just weight loss. When I turned 61, I'd lost 50 pounds. And I was surprised when, on my 62nd birthday, I'd lost 50 more. I was quite satisfied with my weight there -- even before that point -- but over the next 3 years, I lost 24 more pounds, that last weight loss fluctuating between 24 and 18 pounds.
What I did immediately, on this journey, was stop drinking sugar-pop, then add fruit to my diet, eat less meat, buy smaller dinner plates to serve our food upon, and just "graze" all day rather than always eating meals. I ate when I was hungry and did not eat if I wasn't.
At age 67, I'm 5'3.5" and weigh 113 -- sometimes. As I wrote regarding fluctuation, my weight stays between 113 and 119 lbs.4 -
RainaProske wrote: »Waaallll, I tried Weight Watchers as a young woman, and it worked while I was on it. I understand, however, that WW is better now, more scientific, easier to follow. I also tried to lose weight on my own over the years and was never successful for long. But my last weight loss was through prayer.
All I ever read and heard in my older years was that "it way harder, even impossible, when you're older." So on my 60th birthday, I prayed for a birthday gift of weight loss. I did not ask for a time schedule, just weight loss. When I turned 61, I'd lost 50 pounds. And I was surprised when, on my 62nd birthday, I'd lost 50 more. I was quite satisfied with my weight there -- even before that point -- but over the next 3 years, I lost 24 more pounds, that last weight loss fluctuating between 24 and 18 pounds.
What I did immediately, on this journey, was stop drinking sugar-pop, then add fruit to my diet, eat less meat, buy smaller dinner plates to serve our food upon, and just "graze" all day rather than always eating meals. I ate when I was hungry and did not eat if I wasn't.
At age 67, I'm 5'3.5" and weigh 113 -- sometimes. As I wrote regarding fluctuation, my weight stays between 113 and 119 lbs.
Being diabetic might have something to do with your weight loss too. Now that you are taking insulin you might want to start counting calories (if you don't already) because the insulin will help your body access the extra glucose in your blood, and if there is more glucose than what your body needs the extra will be stored as fat.2 -
Thank you for the information, Jane! I've had diabetes for decades but ignored it, because I have another illness that seemed more devastating, so I just refused to deal with both. I did lose the weight, hoping that would take care of the diabetes, but it didn't; I just got worse, I guess, because when I finally submitted, the blood/sugar levels were shocking.
My nutritionist wants me to gain a little weight, I suppose that would be all right. I don't like it, but . . . .1 -
Less time consuming than weighing food. Everyone at work seems to be on weight watchers and they count points. We are all losing around the same rate and I weigh/count calories. It isn't that easy to weigh and log everything, it is time consuming and I limit myself by doing so in the foods that I can eat. Chicken and broccoli every day because it's the easiest thing to eat/weigh/not screw up. I don't go out to eat with friends and family anymore while others are able to use a WW point system to do so. I am not bringing a food scale and I cannot eyeball portions. I find nothing wrong with WW or nutrisystem, it just isn't for me.1
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Because people choose the option that works best for their lifestyle and/or knowledge level, just like everything else in life.
It's not like anyone on MFP really has room to talk anyway, since they are using an app designed by someone else to track their calories, macros, and nutrients instead of sitting down with a pen and paper and doing it themselves. And having access to a huge database that they wouldn't have doing it themselves. Not to mention that the community support here isn't any different from the community support that is a part of programs like WW. Sure, it's "free," but you're still following a program and using tools created by others.
Exactly! And it isn't like MFP is more successful than WW or Nutrisystem judging by how many members show up saying "I'm back because I regained".4 -
Because people choose the option that works best for their lifestyle and/or knowledge level, just like everything else in life.
It's not like anyone on MFP really has room to talk anyway, since they are using an app designed by someone else to track their calories, macros, and nutrients instead of sitting down with a pen and paper and doing it themselves. And having access to a huge database that they wouldn't have doing it themselves. Not to mention that the community support here isn't any different from the community support that is a part of programs like WW. Sure, it's "free," but you're still following a program and using tools created by others.
I did it myself for three years while away from MFP. The weight gain that occured during that time was actually a direct result of me trusting someone else's calculations when I let it tell me what my maintenance calories would be.
Back to the deficit, back to keto, and back down 30 pounds before I bothered starting to log again a few days ago. Funny that; some people can solve their own problems and actually do use this as a tool of convenience and record keeping.
That said, you're probably right for the vast majority.0 -
I just detest the idea of paying someone money to do something that I already know good and well how to do by myself. I think that weighing and logging food is EASY (it takes what? 5 minutes per meal?). And using MFP *is* different because it *is* free. No one tells you what/where/when to eat, you make your own choices and then have the convenience of the calculator to keep track. I mean. I could write it down (and have done so before the internet age), but..... why would I?4
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I'm always a little confused by the assumption that people are lazy and that's why they choose these options. Misplaced trust, lack of access to better information or awareness that there is alternatives, the myths contribute to a lack of confidence in personalising your own program. I can't blame a person for not knowing any different given the crap people are fed (even by doctors apparently) and may be too overwhelmed by the stuff of life to have the time to discover that it's dodgy.
It's all part of fall down 7 times, get back up 8. We've all done it.3 -
Most people listen to popular music, see popular movies, read popular books, and attempt popular weight loss methods. (Do you think these are necessarily the "best" music, movies, books, weight loss methods?)
How does a weight loss method become popular? I'd argue that there are two main avenues, and sometimes both of them apply:- Someone has an angle to make a profit, so they market the method like crazy.
- People are looking for something magical that will be quick and easy, so they fall for nonsense claims.
But, with respect to "making a conscious effort to just cutting back on how much one is eating, without having to go through some 'special' method":- No one much stands to profit - how would you write an engaging book about that, let alone get someone to subscribe to a weight-loss magazine with that philosophy (6 great monthly articles about eating the same stuff, just a little less of it!)? No one would go to a weekend workshop about it, attend weekly for-profit meetings, buy a DVD . . . and there's no special frozen dinners to be sold ("Here's your normal dinner, just 3/4 as much!!"). Under Armor running MFP and getting ad revenue, and some other like cases, is about as profitable as this gets. So, not much marketing, except for what the governmental/charitable/health-advocacy non-profits tell us, and who the heck listens to them about anything?
- To most people, this doesn't sound quick or easy. There's no magic.
I think that's pretty much why things are as they are.6 -
Because people choose the option that works best for their lifestyle and/or knowledge level, just like everything else in life.
It's not like anyone on MFP really has room to talk anyway, since they are using an app designed by someone else to track their calories, macros, and nutrients instead of sitting down with a pen and paper and doing it themselves. And having access to a huge database that they wouldn't have doing it themselves. Not to mention that the community support here isn't any different from the community support that is a part of programs like WW. Sure, it's "free," but you're still following a program and using tools created by others.
However though with MFP, we learn how to do what's necessary; without this website's usage as well (pertaining to calorie counting). Whether it be by choice and/or if we lose access to the internet. With everything else, it's impossible to continue; without their products or like with WW when it becomes possible, they reinvent themselves with a new point system; so that you have to return to learn it.
It also makes me livid, when those using this website; complain about those whom desire new features for ease of use. Yet those same people no doubt're most likely, also using a dishwasher, washing machine & dryer, etc.; to make their live's easier. The hypocrisy here, just astounds me!0 -
I knew when I said "lazy", someone would get up in arms about it. I meant "lazy" as in the person doesn't want to put in the effort to cook foods or work hard enough to pay $500 a month for a food program, not that the person is stupid and ignorant. If I worked a full-time job, had to take care of a family and all the housework, and I could afford it, I might go with buying NutriSystem or similar program as I would be lazy, aka not want to make the time to grocery shop and cook meals. As I'm really self-employed working from home and my only responsibilities are to keep house and my family fed, I'm lazy about getting a second, outside-the-home job in order to earn enough money to pay for NutriSystem.
Do I think it's bad someone pays $500 a month for a pre-portioned food program? Nope. I did it as a teen until my mom couldn't afford it.2 -
I knew when I said "lazy", someone would get up in arms about it. I meant "lazy" as in the person doesn't want to put in the effort to cook foods or work hard enough to pay $500 a month for a food program, not that the person is stupid and ignorant. If I worked a full-time job, had to take care of a family and all the housework, and I could afford it, I might go with buying NutriSystem or similar program as I would be lazy, aka not want to make the time to grocery shop and cook meals. As I'm really self-employed working from home and my only responsibilities are to keep house and my family fed, I'm lazy about getting a second, outside-the-home job in order to earn enough money to pay for NutriSystem.
Do I think it's bad someone pays $500 a month for a pre-portioned food program? Nope. I did it as a teen until my mom couldn't afford it.
Did you ever feel guilty your Mom payed all that money until she couldn't afford it?
Serious question. She probably couldn't at the time but did it for you till she could not.
Or did finances change?1 -
Wetcoaster wrote: »I knew when I said "lazy", someone would get up in arms about it. I meant "lazy" as in the person doesn't want to put in the effort to cook foods or work hard enough to pay $500 a month for a food program, not that the person is stupid and ignorant. If I worked a full-time job, had to take care of a family and all the housework, and I could afford it, I might go with buying NutriSystem or similar program as I would be lazy, aka not want to make the time to grocery shop and cook meals. As I'm really self-employed working from home and my only responsibilities are to keep house and my family fed, I'm lazy about getting a second, outside-the-home job in order to earn enough money to pay for NutriSystem.
Do I think it's bad someone pays $500 a month for a pre-portioned food program? Nope. I did it as a teen until my mom couldn't afford it.
Did you ever feel guilty your Mom payed all that money until she couldn't afford it?
Serious question. She probably couldn't at the time but did it for you till she could not.
Or did finances change?
I personally wouldn't, in such a scenario. She was the adult in charge of finances, I was the teen who thought money came from nowhere, and didn't understand labor value.0 -
Yeah, I like your insights.Personally, I love that food logging with MFP made it pretty easy, turning the whole weight-management issue into kind of a fun science-fair project for grown-ups, with a big real-world payoff. But when people ask me how I lost 60+ pounds, and I say "I ate less", they mostly hound me for the real answer ("low carb?" "low fat?" "new workouts?") or lose interest because there's no magic.
I think that's pretty much why things are as they are.
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Well for my self, I am up and down like a yo-yo. I know I am a food addict. I like food and like to eat it. I have decided to change my life style. I want to eat to live not live to eat. I am praying and doing everything I can to control myself. I pray the Serenity prayer when I feel tempted to over eat it seems to be helping, I had tried many ways to lose and have lost but I gained it back when not watching. I truly am a Food Addict I pray Lord help me to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. It will be a life time job. Thanks for hearing me out. Till I learn control forever I will need you all and your encouragement. Every thing else is seemingly a gimmick.0
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Most people listen to popular music, see popular movies, read popular books, and attempt popular weight loss methods. (Do you think these are necessarily the "best" music, movies, books, weight loss methods?)
How does a weight loss method become popular? I'd argue that there are two main avenues, and sometimes both of them apply:- Someone has an angle to make a profit, so they market the method like crazy.
- People are looking for something magical that will be quick and easy, so they fall for nonsense claims.
But, with respect to "making a conscious effort to just cutting back on how much one is eating, without having to go through some 'special' method":- No one much stands to profit - how would you write an engaging book about that, let alone get someone to subscribe to a weight-loss magazine with that philosophy (6 great monthly articles about eating the same stuff, just a little less of it!)? No one would go to a weekend workshop about it, attend weekly for-profit meetings, buy a DVD . . . and there's no special frozen dinners to be sold ("Here's your normal dinner, just 3/4 as much!!"). Under Armor running MFP and getting ad revenue, and some other like cases, is about as profitable as this gets. So, not much marketing, except for what the governmental/charitable/health-advocacy non-profits tell us, and who the heck listens to them about anything?
- To most people, this doesn't sound quick or easy. There's no magic.
I think that's pretty much why things are as they are.
That's been my experience as well. Now granted, I do run keto, but I don't bother explaining that part until I am sure that they understand, at the end of the day, weight loss is nothing more than a physics problem. No need to make *kitten* sound like voodoo when it's not. It builds expectations, and leads to inevitable failure.
Oh, and many others swear I must have starved myself or some silliness. When 14-1600 kcal per day is "starving" oneself, we have developed a warped *kitten* sense of nutrition, as a culture.0 -
I knew when I said "lazy", someone would get up in arms about it. I meant "lazy" as in the person doesn't want to put in the effort to cook foods or work hard enough to pay $500 a month for a food program, not that the person is stupid and ignorant. If I worked a full-time job, had to take care of a family and all the housework, and I could afford it, I might go with buying NutriSystem or similar program as I would be lazy, aka not want to make the time to grocery shop and cook meals. As I'm really self-employed working from home and my only responsibilities are to keep house and my family fed, I'm lazy about getting a second, outside-the-home job in order to earn enough money to pay for NutriSystem.
Do I think it's bad someone pays $500 a month for a pre-portioned food program? Nope. I did it as a teen until my mom couldn't afford it.
Naaah not up in arms. Ive seen it said over the years on MFPland. Often without clarification which you have done.
When someone says to me, I'm too lazy to do xyz, it tells me what's more the point is that what they believe they have to do is simply not conducive to where they are at. It dropped out of my vocabulary in regards to myself because I realised it actually made no sense when I considered how I was able to apply myself to other areas.
Part of the problem is the preconceptions people have about weightless - the level of activity they need to do, the expectation upon timeframe and so on. You know the drill. There is a vacuum out there, knowledge wise, non MFP. Not having enough knowledge means rigidity. Not knowing how to move confidently with changes (environment, physiological etc). How many books/programs discuss maintenance? Bloody none. Wherever you are at, whatever dilemma, there's always a solution. Lazy IMO, is sometimes indicative of not having found the correct solution - inject more fun, learn more, reassess goals etc. People just end up believing they are a failure, lazy, when all it was was a jump to the left to set them right again.
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