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Interesting way that people excuse their overweight / obesity
Replies
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If cico doesn't work for you then you need to make an appointment with a physicist and not a physician because you have broken the laws of physics and need to be studied.
Once again, there may be things not understood. Some things we understand, for example, that would possibly explain are fiber and sugar alcohols not being absorbed (and maybe there is something else that is not absorbed). I've also experienced loss of energy / calories (glucose) through osmotic diuresis, which is something that science knows about and understands, but most here would never even think of it while vehemently arguing in favor of CICO.0 -
No one says that you can't gain or lose fluid independent of calories. That has nothing to do with CICO. Similarly, certain things not being absorbed means you don't have calories in from them.5
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lemurcat12 wrote: »No one says that you can't gain or lose fluid independent of calories. That has nothing to do with CICO. Similarly, certain things not being absorbed means you don't have calories in from them.
And what about my other example - losing calories via osmotic diuresis? I've never seen anyone even consider that possibility.0 -
Interesting. So far we've got the perspective of experienced users (MFP does piss me off too when it's being glitchy), but I wonder if the "no, logging won't work for me" response mainly comes from people who haven't even tried it? That was my assumption, anyway, basically people just writing it off without really ever putting in the effort.
True. Because even though it's glitchy, I still log and it still works. I just get frustrated (and then do it anyway).2 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »
And what about my other example - losing calories via osmotic diuresis? I've never seen anyone even consider that possibility.
That would be "calories out", wouldn't it. just like any other calories lost via urination, defecation, bleeding, exhalation, or what-have-you?
I grant you, I've never seen anyone here mention osmotic diuresis before, in the CICO context. But I've frequently seen people say things along the lines "absent an unusual medical condition, calories burned need to exceed calories ingested".
Medical conditions are mentioned semi-regularly, it seems to me. I wouldn't expect non-medical-professionals to list all possible examples of such medical conditions.6 -
Picking out some unusual medical condition that should not be happening and must be corrected ASAP does not support the claim that CICO only works for about 80% of people (which was made above). Or really that it doesn't work at all.
When I have a virus (assuming I could eat) I will presumably not gain weight due to inability to keep stuff in (ugh, I know). That doesn't mean CICO doesn't work for me.5 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Picking out some unusual medical condition that should not be happening and must be corrected ASAP does not support the claim that CICO only works for about 80% of people (which was made above). Or really that it doesn't work at all.
When I have a virus (assuming I could eat) I will presumably not gain weight due to inability to keep stuff in (ugh, I know). That doesn't mean CICO doesn't work for me.
I don't know what the percentage is, but I agree that CICO works for most. I disagree that it works for 100%. If I mention that it doesn't work as understood for some, the response that it does work for most proves my point to be correct.1 -
The people who are doing the posting on this website and who have interest in their health are a small subset of society, i originally joined MFP so that i would be more exercise compliant, it wasn't because i was overweight. So we are mostly not typical.
Typical..what i see in my everyday life, is overweight people and they would like to be slim. THOSE PEOPLE are proof that CICO does not work because all of those ppl are not overeating, the body is more complex than CICO---i've never been overweight and i'm an OUTLIER, yes CICO is accurate for most, but not for all.
NOTHING is always accurate for everyone, there are always exceptions.0 -
The people who are doing the posting on this website and who have interest in their health are a small subset of society, i originally joined MFP so that i would be more exercise compliant, it wasn't because i was overweight. So we are mostly not typical.
Typical..what i see in my everyday life, is overweight people and they would like to be slim. THOSE PEOPLE are proof that CICO does not work because all of those ppl are not overeating, the body is more complex than CICO---i've never been overweight and i'm an OUTLIER, yes CICO is accurate for most, but not for all.
NOTHING is always accurate for everyone, there are always exceptions.
How do you know they aren't overeating if they aren't keeping track of their intake?
Before I started counting, I wouldn't have believed that I was overeating. Now that I know better, CICO works fine, but I had to accept that what I was doing wasn't working. I had to stop being in denial about what I was doing to myself.8 -
NOTHING is always accurate for everyone, there are always exceptions.0
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midwesterner85 wrote: »
I don't know what the percentage is, but I agree that CICO works for most. I disagree that it works for 100%. If I mention that it doesn't work as understood for some, the response that it does work for most proves my point to be correct.
Crucial words (IMO) bolded. But "as understood" by whom?
Personally, I think there are misunderstandings (and "not yet knowns") on both sides of this debate.
Some people equate "CICO works" to "online calorie-requirement calculators give correct answers for everyone, or close". That's just silly.4 -
The people who are doing the posting on this website and who have interest in their health are a small subset of society, i originally joined MFP so that i would be more exercise compliant, it wasn't because i was overweight. So we are mostly not typical.
Typical..what i see in my everyday life, is overweight people and they would like to be slim. THOSE PEOPLE are proof that CICO does not work because all of those ppl are not overeating, the body is more complex than CICO---i've never been overweight and i'm an OUTLIER, yes CICO is accurate for most, but not for all.
NOTHING is always accurate for everyone, there are always exceptions.
Watch a few episodes of Secret Eaters.6 -
Crucial words (IMO) bolded. But "as understood" by whom?
Personally, I think there are misunderstandings (and "not yet knowns") on both sides of this debate.
Some people equate "CICO works" to "online calorie-requirement calculators give correct answers for everyone, or close". That's just silly.
As understood = as argued here.0 -
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@FridayApril01st2016
Will watch this now if i can stay awake, it is almost an hour long, but will post to you after viewing.FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
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@FridayApril01st2016
Will watch this now if i can stay awake, it is almost an hour long, but will post to you after viewing.
Okay!0 -
NOTHING is always accurate for everyone, there are always exceptions.
That wasn't the part of your statement that I was questioning. Yes there are exceptions however:nutmegoreo wrote: »
How do you know they aren't overeating if they aren't keeping track of their intake?
Before I started counting, I wouldn't have believed that I was overeating. Now that I know better, CICO works fine, but I had to accept that what I was doing wasn't working. I had to stop being in denial about what I was doing to myself.
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@FridayApril01st2016
Sure, it's just amazing that the individual differences held true, well they'd have to wouldn't they? In fact one person in the experiment gained additonal muscle which helped to burn fat.
Loosing weight, gaining weight....very much done on an individual basis--very interesting about the younger children, some of them ate evrything in sight while others ignored extra food once they were fill.
Of particular importance for ppl commenting in this thread is how it's been proven that some people catch a "virus" that causes them to gain weight and become obese--a virus.0 -
@FridayApril01st2016
Sure, it's just amazing that the individual differences held true, well they'd have to wouldn't they? In fact one person in the experiment gained additonal muscle which helped to burn fat.
Loosing weight, gaining weight....very much done on an individual basis--very interesting about the younger children, some of them ate evrything in sight while others ignored extra food once they were fill.
Of particular importance for ppl commenting in this thread is how it's been proven that some people catch a "virus" that causes them to gain weight and become obese--a virus.
Some people're different, from the general population: Mary Mallon (Typhoid Mary), comes to mind!1 -
@FridayApril01st2016
Sure, it's just amazing that the individual differences held true, well they'd have to wouldn't they? In fact one person in the experiment gained additonal muscle which helped to burn fat.
Loosing weight, gaining weight....very much done on an individual basis--very interesting about the younger children, some of them ate evrything in sight while others ignored extra food once they were fill.
Of particular importance for ppl commenting in this thread is how it's been proven that some people catch a "virus" that causes them to gain weight and become obese--a virus.
Was the delivery method for the virus tons of high calorie food?6 -
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So, so much splitting of hairs here.
Yes, there are disorders that can cause people to improperly absorb nutrients. That doesn't mean that CICO isn't in play, it just means that their body isn't using all of what's put in. The formula needs to be adjusted for them.
Yes, there are disorders that can cause people's bodies to transmit more excess calories to storage that would be discarded as waste in healthy people. That doesn't mean that CICO isn't in play, it just means that their body is directing nutrients improperly. The formula needs to be adjusted for them.
It's all nothing more than an individual physics problem. You just have to figure out the parameters.11 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »So, so much splitting of hairs here.
Yes, there are disorders that can cause people to improperly absorb nutrients. That doesn't mean that CICO isn't in play, it just means that their body isn't using all of what's put in. The formula needs to be adjusted for them.
Yes, there are disorders that can cause people's bodies to transmit more excess calories to storage that would be discarded as waste in healthy people. That doesn't mean that CICO isn't in play, it just means that their body is directing nutrients improperly. The formula needs to be adjusted for them.
It's all nothing more than an individual physics problem. You just have to figure out the parameters.
Hey man, don't be bringing math and science in here!6 -
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FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
Some people're different, from the general population: Mary Mallon (Typhoid Mary), comes to mind!
Being a disease carrier is not an abnormal occurrence.3 -
Nightmare_Queen88 wrote: »I use to be one of those people who blamed everything and everyone else for my being overweight. Now I know better. Its my fault and I'm not afraid to admit. Sure there were circumstances in my past that led to me being overweight at a younge age but as I got older I could've done something about it. I chose not to and I'm paying the price for it. I would do anything to go back and shake some sense into my young self, but alas that cannot happen. Lol. It is what is now. I've learned my lesson and now I'm working my butt trying to be a healthier, better version of myself.
As long as there is breath in your body, it's never too late. I applaud you.3 -
@FridayApril01st2016
This FTO gene was mentioned in link that you shared, I watched then found this online....this article reinforces why CICO doesn't apply as a one size fits all:
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0713/15072013-How-obesity-gene-triggers-weight-gain-Batterham0 -
@FridayApril01st2016
This FTO gene was mentioned in link that you shared, I watched then found this online....this article reinforces why CICO doesn't apply as a one size fits all:
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0713/15072013-How-obesity-gene-triggers-weight-gain-Batterham
Interesting. I think this would fit well in the thread about why people overeat even when they want to lose weight.
But it doesn't mean CICO doesn't apply to people who have the gene. Being hungrier than what's normal would make it harder to exercise restraint, but it's still calories in/calories out.7 -
I assume what your GF was referring to is the fact that once you are "fat" and have extra fatty, fat cells those fat cells once made smaller through fat loss will always remain and want to be "full". Those extra fat cells create hormones that DO make it harder to maintain weight loss. That doesn't mean that CICO isn't a thing, it just means that once fat people who don't want to worry about CICO every moment of the rest of their lives most likely ARE going to gain weight back.2
This discussion has been closed.
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