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Should junk food be taxed?
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natboosh69 wrote: »No, because why should people who like to treat themselves every now and again suffer, for the sake of other greedy people.
Why should people who like to have a beer, a glass of wine or a cocktail every now and then have to pay taxes over and above the sales tax?0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Human history shows sooner or later the masses find a way to cut their lives short one way or another. The trend will continue I expect for the masses. Living a long and fully functioning life is not taught early on when after a T-ball game McDonald's is the reward for success.
No I disagree. It's the reward for showing up.
While that is a problem for some areas, it's not really relevant to this topic. Unless of course, you are somehow tying it together via "I'm alive, therefore take care of me, no matter how terrible my choices are". In which case yeah, I could see your point.
I was just replying to a comment on how kids are being "trained". They get high calorie, low nutrition foods as a reward for showing up for an event. This perpetuates the cycle of more and more high calorie/low nutrition (i.e. junk) foods in the diet.
Maybe a tax on junk food would encourage parents to give kids apples and water after a game instead of a sugar laden "juice box" and cookies. Wouldn't that be a good way to encourage healthy habits?1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Human history shows sooner or later the masses find a way to cut their lives short one way or another. The trend will continue I expect for the masses. Living a long and fully functioning life is not taught early on when after a T-ball game McDonald's is the reward for success.
No I disagree. It's the reward for showing up.
While that is a problem for some areas, it's not really relevant to this topic. Unless of course, you are somehow tying it together via "I'm alive, therefore take care of me, no matter how terrible my choices are". In which case yeah, I could see your point.
I was just replying to a comment on how kids are being "trained". They get high calorie, low nutrition foods as a reward for showing up for an event. This perpetuates the cycle of more and more high calorie/low nutrition (i.e. junk) foods in the diet.
Maybe a tax on junk food would encourage parents to give kids apples and water after a game instead of a sugar laden "juice box" and cookies. Wouldn't that be a good way to encourage healthy habits?
I believe all the extra snacking opportunities that have been created is a big why for so many adults/kids are overweight and obese. As far as I can tell these extra snacking opportunities started in the 80's and has continued to the ridiculous amount of it now.
No one snacked in earlier generations like they do now
The tax could help.1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Human history shows sooner or later the masses find a way to cut their lives short one way or another. The trend will continue I expect for the masses. Living a long and fully functioning life is not taught early on when after a T-ball game McDonald's is the reward for success.
No I disagree. It's the reward for showing up.
While that is a problem for some areas, it's not really relevant to this topic. Unless of course, you are somehow tying it together via "I'm alive, therefore take care of me, no matter how terrible my choices are". In which case yeah, I could see your point.
I was just replying to a comment on how kids are being "trained". They get high calorie, low nutrition foods as a reward for showing up for an event. This perpetuates the cycle of more and more high calorie/low nutrition (i.e. junk) foods in the diet.
Maybe a tax on junk food would encourage parents to give kids apples and water after a game instead of a sugar laden "juice box" and cookies. Wouldn't that be a good way to encourage healthy habits?
And maybe we can give kids textbooks for Christmas so that they'll appreciate education over entertainment.
Or maybe they just won't see the apple as any kind of reward and think they got gypped out of their Christmas presents.
Kids don't like McDonald's because it's given as a reward and wouldn't like apples more if they were. They're given McDonald's as a reward because they like it and not apples because they don't (at least most kids don't like apples so much as to see it as a special treat).3 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Human history shows sooner or later the masses find a way to cut their lives short one way or another. The trend will continue I expect for the masses. Living a long and fully functioning life is not taught early on when after a T-ball game McDonald's is the reward for success.
No I disagree. It's the reward for showing up.
While that is a problem for some areas, it's not really relevant to this topic. Unless of course, you are somehow tying it together via "I'm alive, therefore take care of me, no matter how terrible my choices are". In which case yeah, I could see your point.
I was just replying to a comment on how kids are being "trained". They get high calorie, low nutrition foods as a reward for showing up for an event. This perpetuates the cycle of more and more high calorie/low nutrition (i.e. junk) foods in the diet.
Maybe a tax on junk food would encourage parents to give kids apples and water after a game instead of a sugar laden "juice box" and cookies. Wouldn't that be a good way to encourage healthy habits?
And maybe we can give kids textbooks for Christmas so that they'll appreciate education over entertainment.
Or maybe they just won't see the apple as any kind of reward and think they got gypped out of their Christmas presents.
Kids don't like McDonald's because it's given as a reward and wouldn't like apples more if they were. They're given McDonald's as a reward because they like it and not apples because they don't (at least most kids don't like apples so much as to see it as a special treat).
Or how about some balance. We always gave our kids several books for Christmas along with a video game, other age appropriate toys/games, some sports equipment, special request clothes, etc., i.e., balance.
I coached youth sports for a number of years, very seldom saw healthy snacks provided. Hell, kids don't know they like healthy foods because their parents feed them crap instead of being the adult and ensure the kids have some balance.1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Human history shows sooner or later the masses find a way to cut their lives short one way or another. The trend will continue I expect for the masses. Living a long and fully functioning life is not taught early on when after a T-ball game McDonald's is the reward for success.
No I disagree. It's the reward for showing up.
While that is a problem for some areas, it's not really relevant to this topic. Unless of course, you are somehow tying it together via "I'm alive, therefore take care of me, no matter how terrible my choices are". In which case yeah, I could see your point.
I was just replying to a comment on how kids are being "trained". They get high calorie, low nutrition foods as a reward for showing up for an event. This perpetuates the cycle of more and more high calorie/low nutrition (i.e. junk) foods in the diet.
Maybe a tax on junk food would encourage parents to give kids apples and water after a game instead of a sugar laden "juice box" and cookies. Wouldn't that be a good way to encourage healthy habits?
And maybe we can give kids textbooks for Christmas so that they'll appreciate education over entertainment.
Or maybe they just won't see the apple as any kind of reward and think they got gypped out of their Christmas presents.
Kids don't like McDonald's because it's given as a reward and wouldn't like apples more if they were. They're given McDonald's as a reward because they like it and not apples because they don't (at least most kids don't like apples so much as to see it as a special treat).
Or how about some balance. We always gave our kids several books for Christmas along with a video game, other age appropriate toys/games, some sports equipment, special request clothes, etc., i.e., balance.
I coached youth sports for a number of years, very seldom saw healthy snacks provided. Hell, kids don't know they like healthy foods because their parents feed them crap instead of being the adult and ensure the kids have some balance.
Right. There's no balance now. Of course we should give kids treats. However, it doesn't seem like there are treats anymore because they get the treat foods all the time. Now the kids are conditioned to it. Become overweight and turn into obese adults.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »This whole thread just makes me weep for America.
Me too.
Why? (Carlos just gave his answer, but I seem to recall you had a different viewpoint.) Is this still because people suggested that you would actually have to have a good definition of what would be taxed if you were proposing to add a tax?
Now that this card silliness has died down, I'd really love an answer to this question. 100df?0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »This whole thread just makes me weep for America.
Me too.
Why? (Carlos just gave his answer, but I seem to recall you had a different viewpoint.) Is this still because people suggested that you would actually have to have a good definition of what would be taxed if you were proposing to add a tax?
Now that this card silliness has died down, I'd really love an answer to this question. 100df?
Question not addressed to me, but I would propose a tax on added sugars in foods as a start. The CDC, USDA and major medical researchers have all identified added sugars as a significant contributor to obesity.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »This whole thread just makes me weep for America.
Me too.
Why? (Carlos just gave his answer, but I seem to recall you had a different viewpoint.) Is this still because people suggested that you would actually have to have a good definition of what would be taxed if you were proposing to add a tax?
Now that this card silliness has died down, I'd really love an answer to this question. 100df?
Question not addressed to me, but I would propose a tax on added sugars in foods as a start. The CDC, USDA and major medical researchers have all identified added sugars as a significant contributor to obesity.
How would you do it? Based on percentage? Grams? If grams, per container?
Like I said before, I think the federal gov't should stay out and let states experiment and see what works. If a state wants to try this (or just use it as an excuse for a revenue-raising measure), it wouldn't bother me, even though it is regressive.
Worth noting (in light of 100df's suggestion that asking what "junk food" meant in this context is somehow a terrible question, instead of the kind of definition issue one must wrestle with with any law), that such a definition includes lots of non junk food (to a greater or lesser degree) and excludes lots of other foods we'd normally call junk food. Demonstrating that asking about definitions is important to understanding what you are proposing.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »
None, yes, doesn't apply, doesn't apply.stephanieluvspb wrote: »So @Zipp237, how much of my money will be put on this card? Does everyone get the same amount? If I use all the money on my card before it gets refilled, do I just starve? Will the goverment take the rest of my paycheck and tell me what to do with it?
Wait, so the healthy food allowance isn't even our own money? And everyone has the same amount, regardless of income? Where does the money come from?stephanieluvspb wrote: »
None, yes, doesn't apply, doesn't apply.stephanieluvspb wrote: »So @Zipp237, how much of my money will be put on this card? Does everyone get the same amount? If I use all the money on my card before it gets refilled, do I just starve? Will the goverment take the rest of my paycheck and tell me what to do with it?
So where is the money coming from?
Who said anything about money? No offense, but these kind of questions illustrate the need for something like a Healthy USA Food Program. People just don't understand what is explained to them and need help. A card would do that. Nobody would have to understand what was explained, the card would just work. If you've used up your junk food allotment, no more junk food. No thinking required. The receipts could even make suggestions, like "How about some grapes?" It could be intuitive based on things you've purchased before, suggesting items that you like instead of more Oreos.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Human history shows sooner or later the masses find a way to cut their lives short one way or another. The trend will continue I expect for the masses. Living a long and fully functioning life is not taught early on when after a T-ball game McDonald's is the reward for success.
No I disagree. It's the reward for showing up.
While that is a problem for some areas, it's not really relevant to this topic. Unless of course, you are somehow tying it together via "I'm alive, therefore take care of me, no matter how terrible my choices are". In which case yeah, I could see your point.
I was just replying to a comment on how kids are being "trained". They get high calorie, low nutrition foods as a reward for showing up for an event. This perpetuates the cycle of more and more high calorie/low nutrition (i.e. junk) foods in the diet.
Maybe a tax on junk food would encourage parents to give kids apples and water after a game instead of a sugar laden "juice box" and cookies. Wouldn't that be a good way to encourage healthy habits?
It would, but a card would be better. Then nobody is buying giant amounts of junk food to give children. They'll have to find some healthy options to serve the kids or just eliminate group snacking as an activity which would be even better.
The card solves the problem and people won't complain about being taxed.
A tax is just a small step in the right direction. What we need is for people to take control of themselves and the card would teach them how to do that.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »natboosh69 wrote: »No, because why should people who like to treat themselves every now and again suffer, for the sake of other greedy people.
Why should people who like to have a beer, a glass of wine or a cocktail every now and then have to pay taxes over and above the sales tax?
That's right, you shouldn't. And that's why many places don't put an extra tax on alcohol for the consumer.0 -
Yes, absolutley. A sugar tax is long overdue. Sugar is too cheap. Make it more expensive so people buy less of it.Packerjohn wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »This whole thread just makes me weep for America.
Me too.
Why? (Carlos just gave his answer, but I seem to recall you had a different viewpoint.) Is this still because people suggested that you would actually have to have a good definition of what would be taxed if you were proposing to add a tax?
Now that this card silliness has died down, I'd really love an answer to this question. 100df?
Question not addressed to me, but I would propose a tax on added sugars in foods as a start. The CDC, USDA and major medical researchers have all identified added sugars as a significant contributor to obesity.
A card would solve that problem, too, though!
If not a card, a hefty tax on sugar and all foods with added sugars. People should pay up if they want to eat that stuff!
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lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »This whole thread just makes me weep for America.
Me too.
Why? (Carlos just gave his answer, but I seem to recall you had a different viewpoint.) Is this still because people suggested that you would actually have to have a good definition of what would be taxed if you were proposing to add a tax?
Now that this card silliness has died down, I'd really love an answer to this question. 100df?
I wasn't ignoring you, I missed your post.
I am confident that most people know what junk food is. It's only some MFP members who fight about it. In real life everyone knows what junk food is. So when MFP members say it's impossible to define, I know that's ridiculous.
My comment wasn't specifically about the tax. I am sad that some people think we don't have a problem with food and eating in this country.
The other thread about paying for the costs of obesity influenced my "me too" post too - my bad.0 -
Now it's turning into another sugar talk? There is absolutely nothing inherently bad about added sugars, they don't contribute to obesity one iota above their calorie content.0
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3dogsrunning wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »
None, yes, doesn't apply, doesn't apply.stephanieluvspb wrote: »So @Zipp237, how much of my money will be put on this card? Does everyone get the same amount? If I use all the money on my card before it gets refilled, do I just starve? Will the goverment take the rest of my paycheck and tell me what to do with it?
Wait, so the healthy food allowance isn't even our own money? And everyone has the same amount, regardless of income? Where does the money come from?
Also to these questions - so people can go out and buy more food with their own money?
Just make sure you pay with cash so it can't be tracked back to you.3dogsrunning wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »
None, yes, doesn't apply, doesn't apply.stephanieluvspb wrote: »So @Zipp237, how much of my money will be put on this card? Does everyone get the same amount? If I use all the money on my card before it gets refilled, do I just starve? Will the goverment take the rest of my paycheck and tell me what to do with it?
Wait, so the healthy food allowance isn't even our own money? And everyone has the same amount, regardless of income? Where does the money come from?
Also to these questions - so people can go out and buy more food with their own money?
More slush money for black market Oreos for me!
My husband just at one of my Kit Kat bars. Can you imagine the fall out if that was a black market bar?!
I would cut a **kitten**.
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Relevant: http://gazettereview.com/2016/07/study-mexicos-junk-food-tax-reveals-small-drop-purchases/
Mexico is defining junk food as food with more than 275 calories per 100g. The 8% tax has stopped poor households from buying the equivalent of a Snickers bar a day (quote from different article) and hasn't deterred wealthier households at all.1 -
There we have it. A sugar tax is good, but it's not enough. If we want healthy people, we need a national system to help them. If we leave people alone to choose their own diets they won't choose wisely. They need help planning better.mskessler89 wrote: »Relevant: http://gazettereview.com/2016/07/study-mexicos-junk-food-tax-reveals-small-drop-purchases/
Mexico is defining junk food as food with more than 275 calories per 100g. The 8% tax has stopped poor households from buying the equivalent of a Snickers bar a day (quote from different article) and hasn't deterred wealthier households at all.
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WinoGelato wrote: »
None, yes, doesn't apply, doesn't apply.stephanieluvspb wrote: »So @Zipp237, how much of my money will be put on this card? Does everyone get the same amount? If I use all the money on my card before it gets refilled, do I just starve? Will the goverment take the rest of my paycheck and tell me what to do with it?
Wait, so the healthy food allowance isn't even our own money? And everyone has the same amount, regardless of income? Where does the money come from?stephanieluvspb wrote: »
None, yes, doesn't apply, doesn't apply.stephanieluvspb wrote: »So @Zipp237, how much of my money will be put on this card? Does everyone get the same amount? If I use all the money on my card before it gets refilled, do I just starve? Will the goverment take the rest of my paycheck and tell me what to do with it?
So where is the money coming from?
Who said anything about money? No offense, but these kind of questions illustrate the need for something like a Healthy USA Food Program. People just don't understand what is explained to them and need help. A card would do that. Nobody would have to understand what was explained, the card would just work. If you've used up your junk food allotment, no more junk food. No thinking required. The receipts could even make suggestions, like "How about some grapes?" It could be intuitive based on things you've purchased before, suggesting items that you like instead of more Oreos.
Sorry, money is the first thing that needs to be addressed. How would this be funded? Nobody would provide the food, the administrative costs, etc of something like this for free.
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stevencloser wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »natboosh69 wrote: »No, because why should people who like to treat themselves every now and again suffer, for the sake of other greedy people.
Why should people who like to have a beer, a glass of wine or a cocktail every now and then have to pay taxes over and above the sales tax?
That's right, you shouldn't. And that's why many places don't put an extra tax on alcohol for the consumer.
The tax is built into the cost from the manufacturer/ distributor. Believe me the consumer is paying the tax, it's just not showing up on their store or bar receipt.
Taxes are levied as a federal excuse tax and in many cases a state and local tax in addition to the standard state sales tax rate (the tax that showe on the receipt)0
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