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"Stop policing my daughter's appetite."
distinctlybeautiful
Posts: 1,041 Member
in Debate Club
On facebook I follow a company called A Mighty Girl, which describes itself as "the world’s largest collection of books, toys, movies, and music for parents, teachers, and others dedicated to raising smart, confident, and courageous girls and, of course, for girls themselves!"
They recently posted the following link. I thought the article was very interesting and am just curious to hear y'all's thoughts.
http://m.dailylife.com.au/life-and-love/parenting-and-families/stop-policing-my-daughters-appetite-20140423-373ur.html
They recently posted the following link. I thought the article was very interesting and am just curious to hear y'all's thoughts.
http://m.dailylife.com.au/life-and-love/parenting-and-families/stop-policing-my-daughters-appetite-20140423-373ur.html
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Replies
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Some valid points about other people commenting on what someone else is eating... but she completely lost me when she talked about self-regulating diet - has she never seen a child gorge themselves to the point of sickness on chocolate, cake or ice cream? Or noticed the huge number of over-weight people who have "listened to their bodies" and consistently over-eaten beyond maintenance level because their body is telling them hoy enjoyable the food is?12
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IMO, women have it tough. Social media, fashion magazines, Hollywood, etc. seem to dictate how a woman should look, what they wear, how they eat, etc.
And what makes it even tougher is that it's usually women telling other women this. All most men care about is if women are just willing to have sex with them.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Not having any daughters or sisters I don't have a lot of direct comments. From observing my wife and my mother, though, it seems to me that women are usually much more critical of each other and of their families. Case in point: a few years ago I shared a photo of myself on a glorious backpacking trip with my older sons. We were climbing a mountain and I was proud that we did it. My mom's first reaction? "Looks like you've gained some weight." After that I told her I would not be discussing my weight with her any more.
And societal pressure affect men and boys too, just in different ways. I think boys have a lot of pressure to eat like manly men - it's impressive to put away a lot of food. You should eat like a lumberjack or a marine; it's dainty or effeminate to eat too little. In retrospect this expectation was part of my mindset when I was heavier. Yeah, I was fat, but it's kind of OK because I can really pack it away.8 -
I dislike the idea of girls needing to be raised a certain way because they're girls and girls require something special if they're to be smart and confident. "Poor little girls, we have to do special things for them or else they'll end up as dingbats because that is what girls naturally do!" It's hogwash of the highest order.
Don't buy into the idea that girls aren't every bit as good as boys. You don't need a special site to teach you how to raise a girl. Assume that she isn't less than a boy and she will, too. She will naturally know it because it's true.13 -
Sounds like a complete over reaction that shows the preocupation, focus and bias of the mother. In all likelyhood the stranger wasn't commenting on the eating habits of her daughter, but playfully teasing in a "Oh wow, lucky you" kind of way. Occam's razor. She even says it was meant in a kind way. The only judgement is made up in her own head. Bizarre.12
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And societal pressure affect men and boys too, just in different ways. I think boys have a lot of pressure to eat like manly men - it's impressive to put away a lot of food. You should eat like a lumberjack or a marine; it's dainty or effeminate to eat too little. In retrospect this expectation was part of my mindset when I was heavier. Yeah, I was fat, but it's kind of OK because I can really pack it away.
This is a valid point. I can't tell you how many times I heard stuff like "you're not fat, you're a man" when I was first starting to lose weight. What the hell does that even mean? It almost makes it sound like it's impossible for them to perceive a man as having a bodyfat problem.5 -
IMO, women have it tough. Social media, fashion magazines, Hollywood, etc. seem to dictate how a woman should look, what they wear, how they eat, etc.
And what makes it even tougher is that it's usually women telling other women this. All most men care about is if women are just willing to have sex with them.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
So true. & the expectation put out by the media and perpetuated by women is unattainable.
My 7 year old daughter pointed out to Me today "mommy, your workout pants are on inside out" after I got back from a fitness and yoga class at the gym. I said, "honey, that's okay. I don't care." She said "that's cause you don't care what people think of you, it's not your problem"
Sadly, her perception will probably be rewritten by the media within the next 2 years...2 -
Not having any daughters or sisters I don't have a lot of direct comments. From observing my wife and my mother, though, it seems to me that women are usually much more critical of each other and of their families. Case in point: a few years ago I shared a photo of myself on a glorious backpacking trip with my older sons. We were climbing a mountain and I was proud that we did it. My mom's first reaction? "Looks like you've gained some weight." After that I told her I would not be discussing my weight with her any more.
And societal pressure affect men and boys too, just in different ways. I think boys have a lot of pressure to eat like manly men - it's impressive to put away a lot of food. You should eat like a lumberjack or a marine; it's dainty or effeminate to eat too little. In retrospect this expectation was part of my mindset when I was heavier. Yeah, I was fat, but it's kind of OK because I can really pack it away.
The problem is that you should only eat like a lumberjack or marine If you actually are as physically active as one of them. People these days are not! (Or they are but only for periods of their life then don't adjust)3 -
mommarnurse wrote: »
My 7 year old daughter pointed out to Me today "mommy, your workout pants are on inside out" after I got back from a fitness and yoga class at the gym. I said, "honey, that's okay. I don't care." She said "that's cause you don't care what people think of you, it's not your problem"
Sadly, her perception will probably be rewritten by the media within the next 2 years...
I wish my 6 year old nephew was so sanguine. He policed me on my choice to wear a 2-piece swimming suit. He called it "scandalous" and was aghast that I didn't cover up. "It's so awkward"
Sigh.
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Yikes. I can't imagine. The nerve of a stranger coming up to someone and commenting on their food. That's bizarre.0
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IMO, women have it tough. Social media, fashion magazines, Hollywood, etc. seem to dictate how a woman should look, what they wear, how they eat, etc.
And what makes it even tougher is that it's usually women telling other women this. All most men care about is if women are just willing to have sex with them.
I think I disagree that it's mainly women holding women up to these impossible beauty standards. I think, yeah, women play a big role, but one can't deny the prevalence of women presented as sex objects and/or as eye candy in the media in the most unnecessary places - and these women tend to have a particular look or body type. Whether or not men only care about sex in their personal lives, there's a general public display of wanting a woman who meets a certain standard of beauty. I think men play a big role in perpetuating it too. That's all I'm getting at.I dislike the idea of girls needing to be raised a certain way because they're girls and girls require something special if they're to be smart and confident. "Poor little girls, we have to do special things for them or else they'll end up as dingbats because that is what girls naturally do!" It's hogwash of the highest order.
Don't buy into the idea that girls aren't every bit as good as boys. You don't need a special site to teach you how to raise a girl. Assume that she isn't less than a boy and she will, too. She will naturally know it because it's true.
I agree that there shouldn't be a difference in the way parents treat and raise boys and girls, but I've studied a little bit on gender roles and gender socialization. People inadvertently and unconsciously treat boys and girls differently, whether they have a bias or not, so I think it becomes necessary to bring these differences to light in order to correct and/or avoid them.errollmaclean wrote: »Sounds like a complete over reaction that shows the preocupation, focus and bias of the mother. In all likelyhood the stranger wasn't commenting on the eating habits of her daughter, but playfully teasing in a "Oh wow, lucky you" kind of way. Occam's razor. She even says it was meant in a kind way. The only judgement is made up in her own head. Bizarre.
I can see this. I also find myself thinking, though, that context matters, and I'm not sure intent matters if it's a recurring thing. What I mean is that if she hears this sort of thing all the time, even if the intent is never malicious or negative, the repetitive message and effect might still be harmful.3 -
I think the mother is being a little bit over sensitive in this instance, but I can see why she might have concerns. Unfortunately, all too often the response in situations like this is to make some post trying to police the entire world and what they can think and say to one another, which is just impossible and useless in my opinion. Instead of writing some blog about it, I think a parents time is better spent teaching their kids to listen, evaluate, and think for themselves. There will always be someone out there saying something you don't agree with and/or don't want to hear, and the best thing you can teach your kids is to live with that while still holding true to their own thoughts/beliefs and being happy with who they are.1
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Some valid points about other people commenting on what someone else is eating... but she completely lost me when she talked about self-regulating diet - has she never seen a child gorge themselves to the point of sickness on chocolate, cake or ice cream? Or noticed the huge number of over-weight people who have "listened to their bodies" and consistently over-eaten beyond maintenance level because their body is telling them how enjoyable the food is?
Sure, I have clear memories of gorging myself on Girl Scout Cookies when I was a GS (and an adult, lol) and on Halloween candy. I love the stories of parents who have their kids select a few Halloween candies and give the rest to charity.0 -
Yeah Id agree, very intersting article, and very valid points
Well actually I am lying I read the first line and then lost interest, most people will do the same with this post.1 -
I COMPLETELY agree with the article--both for men and women. (Point of fact, someone brought donuts into my office today and as I went to look at them two male co-workers said, "You don't need that," and a third said, "Want to split one?") Why is it okay to comment on other people's dietary choices? It's as if society says it's okay to be nosy and obtrusive if it's "for the good of the person you're correcting." My body, my food, my choices. Worry about your own food. It's slightly different if I have a relationship with someone, like my wife or my good friends. But even then, what they say and how they say it is very important. I've had friends ask my advice, at which point I'll give it. But I usually hold back until then. I think a lot of people are taking offense to the article because so many MFPers enjoy being nosy and obtrusive.2
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distinctlybeautiful wrote: »IMO, women have it tough. Social media, fashion magazines, Hollywood, etc. seem to dictate how a woman should look, what they wear, how they eat, etc.
And what makes it even tougher is that it's usually women telling other women this. All most men care about is if women are just willing to have sex with them.
I think I disagree that it's mainly women holding women up to these impossible beauty standards. I think, yeah, women play a big role, but one can't deny the prevalence of women presented as sex objects and/or as eye candy in the media in the most unnecessary places - and these women tend to have a particular look or body type. Whether or not men only care about sex in their personal lives, there's a general public display of wanting a woman who meets a certain standard of beauty. I think men play a big role in perpetuating it too. That's all I'm getting at
The average woman in a men's magazine is a size 8, which is very attainable for most women. In women's magazines the average is size 0, which is not. The standards that other women and casting agencies (casting agents being almost exclusively female) have for women are VERY different than the standards that men have.
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There's an excellent podcast about this very topic, if anyone is interested in hearing a life coach and weight loss coach talk about it. Brooke Castillo's Episode 18, "Weight Loss" on The Life Coach School. www.thelifecoachschool/18/0
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Crap like this makes me glad I've got 2 boys with my 3rd on the way being...another boy. lol. My grandpa used to comment on everything I ate when I was little. It hurt my feelings kinda...but since I was never sensitive I never took it to heart. I do clearly remember telling him around the age of 9 that some day I'd lose weight but he'd still be stupid, old, and ugly. He thought that was hilarious, but my parent were appalled. The old curmudgeon. He's a lot nicer now that he has dementia.5
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My female and parenting experiences and point of view have been different than that of the author. It may be more of a regional/cultural issue.
I don't remember anyone ever telling me or my daughter not to eat something. I remember people at various points trying to get me to eat a food or asking if I was ill or on a diet if my portion was smaller. I never really felt judged or criticized over food-except my mom thinking soup for breakfast was weird- but probably was encouraged to eat much more than I needed very often.
My female friends have never asked me to police their food choices or made pacts not to eat. We all eat pretty freely in front of everyone and don't talk diets. The ones who talk about food often do so because they like to cook and eat.
I think the image of children listening to their appetite and trusting their choices is false. We are all guided on what, when and how to eat from the time we begin to eat solid foods.
My dd was very poor at recognizing she was hungry as a younger child. Very few young children can listen to their bodies and act on what they are feeling appropriately. We told dd she had to eat before we left the house or she'd have a massive meltdown from hunger later. If you had asked her if she was hungry she would have said no. She wouldn't ask for a snack if she became slightly peckish while playing later. She wasn't great at thinking ahead, judging how much was a good portion size, what choices would meet her needs well for a very long time. We taught her to recognize what she was feeling as hunger, that we ate collectively at regular intervals because it is not convenient for everyone to stop, prepare food and eat whenever the feeling strikes them individually, and that she should eat a turkey sandwich instead of cake and ice cream for lunch.
I do know people are out there self righteously sipping their organic kale smoothie looking extremely harshly at the contents of other people's grocery carts or what parents feed their kids... particularly if the other shopper/parent/child is poor/overweight. People should stop doing that.1 -
My female and parenting experiences and point of view have been different than that of the author. It may be more of a regional/cultural issue.
I don't remember anyone ever telling me or my daughter not to eat something. I remember people at various points trying to get me to eat a food or asking if I was ill or on a diet if my portion was smaller. I never really felt judged or criticized over food-except my mom thinking soup for breakfast was weird- but probably was encouraged to eat much more than I needed very often.
My female friends have never asked me to police their food choices or made pacts not to eat. We all eat pretty freely in front of everyone and don't talk diets. The ones who talk about food often do so because they like to cook and eat.
Me neither.
The only instance I recall - I was out to dinner with my an ex boyfriend and another couple that were friends of his. We went to a fancy restaurant where they cut your steak right there for you. The food was awesome. As I was about to finish off my last bite, her boyfriend looked at her and asked if there was anything wrong with the food. She had only eaten about half. She responded by saying it was very good but she wanted to be ladylike and not eat too much.
I shrugged and finished my steak.
I don't understand why the author would go out with a group of women and agree to not eat if that wasn't what she wanted. She assumes other people probably went through the drive thru afterwards, why not just be the one to speak up and say "hey, I'd like to eat".
ETA - also regarding the food scent thing - I thought that was because food stuff smells good not to satisfy our appetite.0 -
Interesting article. I think there is a false assumption by the author who assumes everyone who has their food questioned in the manner cited, will react negatively. Not everyone does. I've been asked such a question before in a friendly way - "wow, you going to manage to eat all of that" sort of thing - and I've even said it to friends in the past. There's been no shame felt, but rather a "hell yes!" response and a continuation of gleeful enjoyment of the food.
Not everyone reacts with shame at having their food choice questioned.3 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »
ETA - also regarding the food scent thing - I thought that was because food stuff smells good not to satisfy our appetite.
yeah me too, I thought her interpretation of it was odd....
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I like a few of the things from that site, but most of it I interpret as being written by overweight and damaged older women trying to put their issues on their daughters. Not everything is a major attack or needs to be over-analyzed. The fact that the author was so impacted by that comment as to feel the need to write a post about it speaks volumes about her. Perhaps if insecure people would stop trying to make everyone else insecure, we'd all be better off?7
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3dogsrunning wrote: »I don't understand why the author would go out with a group of women and agree to not eat if that wasn't what she wanted. She assumes other people probably went through the drive thru afterwards, why not just be the one to speak up and say "hey, I'd like to eat".
ETA - also regarding the food scent thing - I thought that was because food stuff smells good not to satisfy our appetite.
Yes and yes.
I vaguely recall being a kid (around 8, and I was pretty skinny at the time) and ordering a steak from the adult menu and the waitress saying "she won't eat all that, she should get something from the kid's" and my dad saying (proudly, which seems weird now), "oh, yes she will," and me eating most of it. I was pretty into meat as a kid (and hated normal kid stuff like peanut butter sandwiches or cereal). I also recall more recently my sister and I going out for a special occasion and getting separate desserts and being told that the desserts in the place were huge and to share, by the waitress. I felt a little uncomfortable, but we wanted different things (as we felt compelled to explain) so went ahead and ate what we wanted (not all) of the desserts we got.
Beyond those long separated instances, the first of which didn't seem to me as critical, the second which was intended to be helpful, I really don't recall people commenting on my food choices. Now, I internalized societal attitudes as I (for whatever reason) perceived them, and so self policed what I was willing to eat in public when I was fat (not so much at other times),* but I have a problem with making up stupid rules that aren't really from anywhere and feeling I must live by them, so I'm not willing to see even that as from anyone but me.
*I used to go out to lunch at this place with good cookies regularly with a mixed group of men and women from work, and pretty much everyone else (the other women being normal weight) would get a cookie and talk about how great they were. I'd not get one, because I was self-conscious about being fat. I'd get one now if I wanted it and others were. I'd probably not get dessert if no one else did, but that's my own issue (and because I generally don't need dessert after lunch anyway), not fear of being shamed. I'm sure no one would say anything except "is that good? Maybe I should have one."0 -
mommarnurse wrote: »IMO, women have it tough. Social media, fashion magazines, Hollywood, etc. seem to dictate how a woman should look, what they wear, how they eat, etc.
And what makes it even tougher is that it's usually women telling other women this. All most men care about is if women are just willing to have sex with them.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
So true. & the expectation put out by the media and perpetuated by women is unattainable.
My 7 year old daughter pointed out to Me today "mommy, your workout pants are on inside out" after I got back from a fitness and yoga class at the gym. I said, "honey, that's okay. I don't care." She said "that's cause you don't care what people think of you, it's not your problem"
Sadly, her perception will probably be rewritten by the media within the next 2 years...
Love it! Hopefully she will adopt your attitude in life. It's such an exhilarating, freeing, empowering feeling not caring what people think!
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distinctlybeautiful wrote: »On facebook I follow a company called A Mighty Girl, which describes itself as "the world’s largest collection of books, toys, movies, and music for parents, teachers, and others dedicated to raising smart, confident, and courageous girls and, of course, for girls themselves!"
They recently posted the following link. I thought the article was very interesting and am just curious to hear y'all's thoughts.
http://m.dailylife.com.au/life-and-love/parenting-and-families/stop-policing-my-daughters-appetite-20140423-373ur.html
I'm a former Weight Watchers member and characterizing WW thusly makes me suspicious that the whole piece is Fat Acceptance propaganda.
"Others rely on the ritual humiliation of weekly Weight Watches public weigh-ins to deny their appetites."
The author does have some good points, but the article isn't balanced - there's nary a mention of obesity or the challenges of successful appetite regulation.
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mommarnurse wrote: »
My 7 year old daughter pointed out to Me today "mommy, your workout pants are on inside out" after I got back from a fitness and yoga class at the gym. I said, "honey, that's okay. I don't care." She said "that's cause you don't care what people think of you, it's not your problem"
Sadly, her perception will probably be rewritten by the media within the next 2 years...
I wish my 6 year old nephew was so sanguine. He policed me on my choice to wear a 2-piece swimming suit. He called it "scandalous" and was aghast that I didn't cover up. "It's so awkward"
Sigh.
I'm stuck on a 6 year old saying something's "scandalous"
It's sad though that even a child that young receives that kind of message. Our only hope is to lead by example.0 -
mommarnurse wrote: »IMO, women have it tough. Social media, fashion magazines, Hollywood, etc. seem to dictate how a woman should look, what they wear, how they eat, etc.
And what makes it even tougher is that it's usually women telling other women this. All most men care about is if women are just willing to have sex with them.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
So true. & the expectation put out by the media and perpetuated by women is unattainable.
My 7 year old daughter pointed out to Me today "mommy, your workout pants are on inside out" after I got back from a fitness and yoga class at the gym. I said, "honey, that's okay. I don't care." She said "that's cause you don't care what people think of you, it's not your problem"
Sadly, her perception will probably be rewritten by the media within the next 2 years...
Love it! Hopefully she will adopt your attitude in life. It's such an exhilarating, freeing, empowering feeling not caring what people think!
it makes you a LOT happier of a person. And then, only those who truly deserve to be in your life will make it there and stay there.1 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I'm a former Weight Watchers member and characterizing WW thusly makes me suspicious that the whole piece is Fat Acceptance propaganda.
"Others rely on the ritual humiliation of weekly Weight Watches public weigh-ins to deny their appetites."
Other quotes have a ring of fat acceptance as well. These two small paragraphs contain some of the most common talking points of fat acceptance:Babies are born understanding their own appetites. They know when they’re full and when they’re hungry. Everyone around babies trusts them to regulate their own appetites.
But as they grow, rather than teaching them to honour and listen to their bodies, we teach girls in so many ways that not only is their appetite not to be trusted but something to be ashamed of. "
The simple truth, that is plainly evident simply by a quick look around at other people and the culture we live in, is that a majority of people already do "honor and listen to their bodies" when they choose to eat, and that they are extremely wide of the mark because of it. Our bodies didn't evolve in a world where chocolate cake grows on trees next to fountains of soda, nor in a world where our tastes and inborn preferences are exploited for profit by food chemists who engineer the most attractive and addictive combinations of flavors and sensations to drive sales.3 -
Almost any remark could be construed as an offense if one is generally ready to be offended.
The author seems like a woman who would be offended by someone saying her daughter was cute. She'd probably see that as a sexist overemphasis on female appearance.
I usually try to take a wide path around people like that.3
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