Why are running training plans so complicated.

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  • JoshuaMcAllister
    JoshuaMcAllister Posts: 500 Member
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    Cisseismint wrote: »
    Also I took your other advice and signed up for a race. It's a local park run that does timed runs every Saturday morning. I have signed up and am doing it next Saturday with my 18min 5k soccer buddy. Well, when I say with him I'll start with him and see him at the end if he waits for me. Lol.

    If you are running a 5km in over 20 minutes, it is not wise to set off a 18 minute pace with your friend. That's a sure fire way of gaining time not loosing it.
  • litsy3
    litsy3 Posts: 783 Member
    edited August 2016
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    As you're a reasonably fit man you *might* get to 20 mins without decent training, but at age 40 it might take a little more work than it would at 25. I'd at least drop the 'run a little faster every time' strategy and only put in the hard efforts at parkrun. You'll need the aerobic conditioning more.
  • Cisseismint
    Cisseismint Posts: 53 Member
    edited August 2016
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    JoshuaMcAllister wrote: »
    If you are running a 5km in over 20 minutes, it is not wise to set off a 18 minute pace with your friend. That's a sure fire way of gaining time not loosing it.

    Lol, yes I agree with that. I'll be happy to break 25 mins so I won't be trying to match him once we set off. I meant I'll drive there with him and line up with him at the start and them see him at the end.

    He's such a bastid, he hardly trains, eats crap all the time but looks like an althlete and can run like mo farah. I don't even know why he's my buddy, I hate him really. Lolol
  • JoshuaMcAllister
    JoshuaMcAllister Posts: 500 Member
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    Cisseismint wrote: »
    JoshuaMcAllister wrote: »
    If you are running a 5km in over 20 minutes, it is not wise to set off a 18 minute pace with your friend. That's a sure fire way of gaining time not loosing it.

    Lol, yes I agree with that. I'll be happy to break 25 mins so I won't be trying to match him once we set off. I meant I'll drive there with him and line up with him at the start and them see him at the end.

    He's such a bastid, he hardly trains, eats crap all the time but looks like an althlete and can run like mo farah. I don't even know why he's my buddy, I hate him really. Lolol

    We all have a friend like that. Recently a friend of mine conquered the Ironman and just like you say eats like crap, doesn't structure training as well as he should but still managed to complete it in a ridiculous respectable time.
  • luv2shimmy
    luv2shimmy Posts: 67 Member
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    My ex was like that. He'd go out and run half marathon distances, and then light up a cigarette as soon as he was done (there were a couple of times I ran with him and he lit up in the middle of the run - I wanted to kick him). He ate garbage, drank like a fish, and smoked at least a pack a day. I don't even know how his body handles it, but it does.
  • mygrl4meee
    mygrl4meee Posts: 943 Member
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    I used c25k to train for my first 5k but after that I just started adding longer times to my run. I am training for my second half marathon and will just add minutes to my run.. Meaning I will decide how long I will run... Run half of it and turn around. I am not going to focus on miles for the next few weeks.
  • mreichard
    mreichard Posts: 235 Member
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    MeanderingMammal wrote: »
    Cisseismint wrote: »
    I read somewhere that long running sessions are really bad for you, leading to increased aging and muscle / strength loss. Do you think this is true?

    Nope, it's bollox peddled by knuckle dragging meatheads based on one study.

    There is some data suggesting that extreme endurance runners may have a higher incidence of some cardiac conditions, but that study was pretty simplistic and correlated only running, there was no related work on feeding strategies.

    It surfaces on powerlifting sites on an annual basis.

    As long you replace the calories used then no harm from running.

    Yeah, the Wall Street Journal loves to recycle this story about every 6 months. Last time they did, i followed their references to another news story which in turn (badly) summarized a study in The Lancet. The study actually argued the exact opposite point than the WSJ was making --- the abstract said in part "...We were not able to find any upper limit on the value of aerobic exercise."
  • Cisseismint
    Cisseismint Posts: 53 Member
    edited August 2016
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    Why do runners swap randomly from miles to km? 'if youwant to run a 5k at 4mins per km, then you need to run 30miles, per week with a slow run of at least 10miles at 8 feet 7 inches per second,' said the runner trying to use as many different measurement units as possible in a single sentence, lmao.
  • litsy3
    litsy3 Posts: 783 Member
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    Because British (and American?) runners work in miles and minutes per mile, but the increasing popularity of metric distance races like 5k and 10k instead of the traditional 5 miles (for example) means that we sometimes switch to km when it's easy to calculate pace against the markers. Especially if, say, you wanted to do a sub 20 min 5k, which you do, because then you are thinking about 4 mins per km, which is simpler to do than 6:26 per mile. If you were racing a half marathon or a marathon in the UK you'd want to be thinking in miles, because there wouldn't be km markers (except that you might get them every 5km in a marathon).
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
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    Different races are measured in both:
    • 100m
    • 200m
    • 400m = 1/4 mi
    • 800m = 1/2 mi
    • 1600m = 1mi
    • 5000m
    • 10000m
    • 5km = 3.1mi
    • 5mi
    • 10km = 6.2km
    • 10mi
    • Half Marathon = 13.1mi = 21.1km
    • 20mi
    • Marathon = 26.2 mi = 42.2km
    • 50km
    • 12 hour
    • 50mi
    • 100km
    • 24 hour
    • 100 mi

    Becomes really easy to convert and swap between depending on objectives
  • dewd2
    dewd2 Posts: 2,449 Member
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    Cisseismint wrote: »
    Why do runners swap randomly from miles to km? 'if youwant to run a 5k at 4mins per km, then you need to run 30miles, per week with a slow run of at least 10miles at 8 feet 7 inches per second,' said the runner trying to use as many different measurement units as possible in a single sentence, lmao.

    Do you measure your football pitch in meters or yards? I know 'officially' it is metric but I bet you still find many that reference the imperial measurements. I believe it is similar for races since many of the original race distances were created long before metric took over (every but here of course :blush: ).
  • DoubleG2
    DoubleG2 Posts: 121 Member
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    My two cents...

    I've been running for a long time. In my experience, speed comes from having a really good base of fitness; which takes time and a lot of miles under your feet. The 5K has almost become a sprint. Even as a young man; a sub 18:00 5K was a challenge and today, I'd probably be able to run it in less than 23:00 - BUT - I would really need to train for it. I agree that there are a lot of training plans and some can be complicated. Essentially, you need to train your body to acclimate to the stress and physiology of running fast over a long distance. You wrote you're running 5K x 3/week. That is not going to give you a base of fitness to enable you to run faster. I would suggest a simple approach of running 4X/week initially 3 days at 5-6K with one long run of 8-10K. The pace you run should allow you to have a conversation with a partner - not too hard/fast so you are struggling for breath. Once you've done that, you can begin to add 1 day of speed or interval training and increase your long run by a kilometer or so every week or so. There really aren't any short-cuts. Runners World has a reasonable 5K training plan for novices. Check it out: http://www.runnersworld.com/training/beginners-5k-plan

    Bottom line, more miles = more fitness = more speed.

    Good luck and happy running.
  • rybo
    rybo Posts: 5,424 Member
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    Cisseismint wrote: »
    Hey all, thanks for all the responses.

    I wore an Apple Watch for a soccer game once and it said I ran almost 10k over the 90 mins. But that's a real mix of walking, jogging, sprints, and then jumping, twisting, turning shooting etc. So it's very different to normal running.

    I think I may forget the idea of racing 5k competitively. I just liked the idea of adding 3 x 5k runs every week to my existing exercise regime and seeing how fast I could get. Doing that got me from 30mins to 25 mins in a couple of months so I was kind of hoping I could just keep doing that and get to sub 20mims. I really enjoy nipping out for a quick 5k and I can even do that straight after a weight lifting session as long as it wasn't leg day, but I am not really up for running much longer regularly. I read somewhere that long running sessions are really bad for you, leading to increased aging and muscle / strength loss. Do you think this is true? I definitely don't want that to happen.

    Having said that I can see what you are all saying about being comfortable running more than 5k to be able to perform 5k at my best on race day. So I will do one 10k once a week, or maybe call it an hour so as I get fitter this may grow to 11 and then 12k in the same time. And then I can still do a couple of 5ks for fun during the week.

    I recognise that this may not get me to be super competitive, but if it helps me get fitter for soccer, and gets me close to 20 mins without turning super skinny then I will be happy.

    You're "hearing" and "reading" a lot of bad info. Long running sessions are not bad for you and will not age you or make you lose strength & muscle unless you are starving yourself & severely under recovering.

    Also IF by some miracle you reached a 20 minute 5K just by running 3 5K's a week, you would be an extreme outlier. There are many, many people that train properly and never break 20 minutes for a 5K.

    The advice of longer runs and just running more at an easier pace is spot on. You don't need intervals,
  • Elise4270
    Elise4270 Posts: 8,375 Member
    edited August 2016
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    MeanderingMammal wrote: »
    Elise4270 wrote: »
    I read once that it wasn't uncommon for a soccer player to run the equivalent of a marathon during a game. Even if you're running half of that, you should pick up running fine after you unlock the how. Enjoy!

    That would be very impressive, with a football match taking 90 minutes and the marathon record still in excess of 2 hours...

    It sure would! There's proof you can't always believe what you read. Sorry about that!
  • Vladimirnapkin
    Vladimirnapkin Posts: 299 Member
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    Cisseismint wrote: »
    Why do runners swap randomly from miles to km? 'if youwant to run a 5k at 4mins per km, then you need to run 30miles, per week with a slow run of at least 10miles at 8 feet 7 inches per second,' said the runner trying to use as many different measurement units as possible in a single sentence, lmao.

    Yes. As the previous poster mentioned, it all depends one where you are running! This gets even more complicated with odd distance cross-country and trail races, which can be completely random.
  • girlinahat
    girlinahat Posts: 2,956 Member
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    another vote for trying to add in longer runs. I run twice a week for 40 minutes (that's based on the time I'm willing to get up, and the time I need to get in the shower to get ready for work). My distance in that time is gradually increasing. I add in a longer run at weekends, generally off-road with some steep ascents, and I set my sports watch to 20 minute lap intervals and just try and do as many as I can.

    I think getting better and faster at running is a very SLOW process, and takes a lot of time to build up strength and speed, but hey, I'm not in a rush. I've not done a Parkrun yet, but I am signed up for a 10k off-road and have a half coastal run in mind. I might try a couple of parkruns to get my bearings, but for now they interfere with my longrun day (or I just have to do the parkrun and keep running after!!!!)
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
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    girlinahat wrote: »
    I might try a couple of parkruns to get my bearings, but for now they interfere with my longrun day (or I just have to do the parkrun and keep running after!!!!)

    I have the same issue with Parkrun. I could run to the park, do the 5k then run home again, but the threshold run in the middle isn't the best move on a long run, particularly when that's back to backed against a second long on Sunday.
  • Cisseismint
    Cisseismint Posts: 53 Member
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    I have just had am amazing idea. And thank you all for helping me get there.

    My problem was that I enjoyed running 5ks but u guys said that to get good at 5k, then I need to regularly run a lot more than 5k. This was a problem because I didn't want to allocate too much time to running to the detriment of my weight training and soccer.

    So I have decided to race 1500 meters instead. Genius huh? I get to run 5k a few times a week just like I enjoy and this should be plenty mileage to get me in shape to race 1500m. I guess I will also need some sprint and speed work but that won't take long and I can do it after upper body weight days.

    I am so happy, don't know why I didn't think of this earlier. I don't think I have ever ran just 1500m and then stopped before. It will be a bit odd, but if it's good enough for Steve cram it's good enough for me.
  • litsy3
    litsy3 Posts: 783 Member
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    Genius indeed. You might need to join a club though for racing opportunities, as there aren't as many open 1500 races available (though you will find them in the right season if you look hard enough).
  • pondee629
    pondee629 Posts: 2,469 Member
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    Cisseismint wrote: »
    I have just had am amazing idea. And thank you all for helping me get there.

    My problem was that I enjoyed running 5ks but u guys said that to get good at 5k, then I need to regularly run a lot more than 5k. This was a problem because I didn't want to allocate too much time to running to the detriment of my weight training and soccer.

    So I have decided to race 1500 meters instead. Genius huh? I get to run 5k a few times a week just like I enjoy and this should be plenty mileage to get me in shape to race 1500m. I guess I will also need some sprint and speed work but that won't take long and I can do it after upper body weight days.

    I am so happy, don't know why I didn't think of this earlier. I don't think I have ever ran just 1500m and then stopped before. It will be a bit odd, but if it's good enough for Steve cram it's good enough for me.

    I clearly just got lost. Are you running because you "enjoyed running 5ks" or to "get good"? Whatever that means. There comes a time where the race isn't against others but solely against you. If you enjoy the 5K, run the 5K. If you enjoy the 1500, run that. Or are you trying to find a distance at which you can "win"? Good luck with your decision. I hope you enjoy it.

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